1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: Bungelung Carcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday, 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: the twenty first of September. 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 3: I'm Zara and I'm Tom. 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 2: Now we're all pretty well aware that the price of 11 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: daily essentials is going up in Australia, things like petrol, 12 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: groceries and housing. But take a look around the world 13 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 2: and you'll actually see almost every country dealing with the 14 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 2: same problem, and in some cases much worse. Now Tom's 15 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,319 Speaker 2: going to take us through all the things we need 16 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: to know about the economy and give us a bit 17 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: of a global perspective on cost of living. But first, 18 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 2: what is making headlines this morning. 19 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 3: Treasurer Jim Chalmers has confirmed the government will end the 20 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 3: fuel excise cut next week next Wednesday, as part of 21 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 3: many difficult decisions in the October budget. The fuel Excise 22 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 3: Cup for those who can't remember, was introduced by the 23 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 3: Morrison government earlier this year to address rising cost of 24 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 3: living pressures. Jim Chalmers said while this would elevate financial 25 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 3: pressures for Australians, the price of fuel shouldn't shoot up overnight. 26 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: WA Premier Mark McGowan has said that his government will 27 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 2: introduce legislation to end the state of emergency brought on 28 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 2: by the COVID pandemic. McGowan said the new arrangement would 29 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: no longer permit the government to declare snapwater closures, and 30 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: he told ABC Radio that a lot of people have 31 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,279 Speaker 2: called for this to come into place. 32 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 3: New South Wales Premier Dominic Perete has urged the Rail, 33 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 3: Tram and Bus union to quote focus on the people, 34 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 3: not on themselves, as the dispute between the government and 35 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 3: the union rolls on. Earlier this week, unions New South 36 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 3: Wales withdrew their planned industrial action that would have allowed 37 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 3: commuters to travel for free at train stations by switching 38 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 3: off the machines, following a submission by the New South 39 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 3: Wales government to the Fair Work Commission. 40 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 2: And Today's Good News, a global study has found Australia's 41 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 2: Great Southern Reef is one of the most productive oceans 42 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: in the world. The Global Seaweed Productivity Report, which was 43 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: led by a team from the University of Western Australia, 44 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 2: found the Great Southern Reef, which extends around Australia's southern coastline, 45 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 2: and the Great African Sea Forest have the best conditions 46 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 2: for crup growth in the world's oceans. Alrighty Thomas, you 47 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 2: are here today to talk about the cost of living. 48 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: You talk about it quite a bit on this podcast, 49 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 2: but this time your focus is going to be a 50 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 2: bit more global than the rest. 51 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, Sarah. For people who've listened to the 52 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 3: podcast for a while, I often come on to talk 53 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 3: about Australia's cost of living. Pre we know that the 54 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 3: price of petrol and various groceries have been rising. Here 55 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 3: at something we spend a lot of time talking about, 56 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 3: and we do sometimes make reference to the fact that 57 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 3: it's not just Australia, other countries going through this as well. Today, 58 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 3: I want to put that into the spotlight a little 59 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 3: bit more. I guess in a sense it shouldn't surprise 60 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 3: us really that this is a global problem because Whenever 61 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 3: we talk about the causes, we talk about global causes. 62 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 3: We know when it comes to petrol, for example, it's 63 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 3: Russia's war in Ukraine and sanctions on Russia that are 64 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 3: driving that petrol price. There's climate change related issues that 65 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 3: are influencing the price of food. There's also wheat which 66 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 3: comes out of Ukraine, you know. So when we talk 67 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 3: about these causes, the global ones, it makes a lot 68 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 3: of sense then that the consequences should also be global. 69 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: It's not surprising at all, but it's always helpful to 70 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: put it into context, and in this case, to put 71 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 2: it into a global context. Can you give us a 72 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: sense of how bad it actually is in different countries? 73 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: And Tom, I will set you a task. I'd love 74 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: to see if you can do it without us listing 75 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: some numbers. 76 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 3: I will try not to just list some numbers are 77 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 3: of course, numbers are kind of useful to get a 78 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 3: bit of a point of reference here, I'll try and 79 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 3: kind of group countries. So I'll start with Australia, and 80 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 3: the first number is six roughly, which is sort of 81 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 3: roughly where Australia's price growth over the last year has been. 82 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 3: So that's six percent. If you kind of think about 83 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 3: it as like a really terrible sale where everything costs 84 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 3: six percent more. It's obviously slightly more complicated than that 85 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 3: in reality, but that's just kind of a good number 86 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 3: to anchor, and that number puts Australia in the kind 87 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: of mid to low range across the world. So some 88 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 3: countries it's relatively mild. China and Japan, for example, are 89 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 3: around two to three percent. They've been relatively sheltered from 90 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 3: the global pressures. But there are heaps of countries that 91 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 3: are around Australia's mark of five to six, seven, eight 92 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 3: nine percent. They include a lot of countries that we 93 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 3: would normally compare ourselves to high income countries like France, 94 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 3: the US, the UK it's closer to ten percent, South Korea, 95 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 3: a number of other countries Germany, New Zealand, then some 96 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 3: of the largest countries in the world, Indonesia, Brazil, India, 97 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 3: they're all in kind of a similar range to Australia. 98 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 3: And then there are some countries where it's really, really, 99 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 3: really bad. The metaphor that I use that I think 100 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 3: is kind of useful as almost to think about it 101 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 3: as like a river and whether you're upstream or downstream, 102 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 3: and so China and Japan in a sense, like I 103 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 3: said before, they've been able to be sheltered from some 104 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 3: of these effects. Australia is roughly in the middle of 105 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 3: the pack. But then you get some countries and maybe 106 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 3: it's they have a fragile political situation, maybe their economy 107 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 3: is overly reliant on some of the things where the 108 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 3: price growth is the worst. There are a number of 109 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 3: reasons why some countries are just sort of right for 110 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 3: the picking and going to have a worse time. And 111 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 3: the numbers start to get very big. So Russia and Ukraine, 112 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 3: it's not hard to understand why they might be hard hit. 113 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 3: You're starting to talk about numbers in the teens or 114 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 3: in the twenties, so that's quite a lot higher than 115 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 3: Australia's six percent. Then you get up to Pakistan, Ghana, Ethiopia, 116 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 3: countries like that where there's a lot of political instability, 117 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 3: very reliant on importing things like wet and fuel. You're 118 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 3: starting to get into twenty thirty, forty percent. Then there 119 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 3: are a selection of countries where the numbers get so 120 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 3: high that you almost lose all perspective. So I will 121 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 3: start reading some numbers here only because they're really eye 122 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 3: catching ones Sri Lanka sixty seven percent, Argentina seventy one, 123 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 3: Turkey eighty Venezuela one hundred and thirty seven, eleven On 124 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty eight, Zimbabwe two hundred and eighty five. 125 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 3: What that number means two hundred and eighty five is 126 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 3: that prices are essentially tripling every year across the board. 127 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 3: That that's an enormous change on a scale that's kind 128 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 3: of hard to comprehend. But that's how bad the problem 129 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 3: is currently in some parts of the world. Usually, as 130 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 3: I say, that's not something that's just been caused in 131 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 3: the last couple of months. That's a sign of a 132 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 3: bigger problem. Zimbabwe has dealt with bad inflation for a 133 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 3: long time, and there are significant economic crises in a 134 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 3: lot of those countries I mentioned that pre date this 135 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 3: current issue. 136 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 2: You rarely pointed out that it can be difficult to 137 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 2: get your head around some of these inflation figures. I mean, 138 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: we've suddenly never experienced it's them that high. But can 139 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 2: you kind of just take the audience through what the 140 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: very practical ramifications of soaring prices looks like in any 141 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 2: given country. 142 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's a total disaster basically in the countries 143 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 3: that have inflation this high, I mean, those numbers sound insane. 144 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 3: When you're comparing one hundred two hundred percent inflation to 145 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 3: six percent, that sounds on a whole different magnitude, and 146 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 3: it is. We're talking there about kind of political, economic, 147 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 3: societal collapse in a sense. So I'll pick Sri Lanka 148 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 3: for example, because that's a country that we spent a 149 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 3: bit of time talking about in the news this year. 150 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 3: We've seen wide scale protests calling for the removal of 151 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 3: the government. There have been shortages of food and fuel 152 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 3: and medicines in Sri Lanka. It's in a really dire 153 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 3: economic position. It's government defaulted on its debts. Similar problems 154 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 3: in a lot of these countries. In Lebanon, they're in 155 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 3: a very desperate position at the moment. The Lebanese banks, 156 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 3: a number of banks are frozen people savings so they 157 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 3: can't access what's in the bank. There was I think 158 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 3: there was a woman who entered a bank in Lebanon 159 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 3: recently with a machine gun, essentially trying to rob the 160 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 3: bank to get back her own savings which she couldn't access, 161 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 3: which she said she needed for urgent medical care for 162 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 3: her sister. So that speaks to the I guess the 163 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 3: human cost and exactly what this looks like when inflation 164 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 3: gets to the really severe end. When inflation is that high, 165 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 3: money is being devalued all the time, the cost of 166 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 3: basic essentials can't be met by a lot of ordinary people, 167 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 3: and the reality is really very very dire. 168 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: When you lay out a problem or a situation as 169 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 2: Dio is that, I think it is natural to want 170 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 2: to think of what potential solutions can be. You've identified 171 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: that the problem or the cause of all of this 172 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 2: is inherently global. The solutions on a global scale as well, Yeah. 173 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 3: They are, And I think that what we're experiencing at 174 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 3: the moment should prompt a conversation about how well our 175 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 3: global system is prepared to meet these sorts of challenges. 176 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 3: So we can't just wave a magic one for examp, 177 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 3: unless you've Ladimir Putin. I suppose you can't wave a 178 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 3: magic wand to make the war in Ukraine go away. 179 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 3: And some of these other pressures that we're experiencing that 180 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 3: are driving this, we may not be able to change 181 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 3: them overnight. But what we have seen here is just 182 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 3: how fragile. So many parts of our system are, for example, 183 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 3: food security. So the fact of Ukraine being unable to 184 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 3: export as much wheat as it normally does because of 185 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 3: the war and a couple of other sort of climate 186 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 3: change crop related issues, they've been enough to reak total 187 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 3: havoc to create conditions that are close to famine in 188 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 3: certain parts of the world. The fact that, I mean 189 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 3: Ukraine is not a country that most of us would 190 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 3: have spent much time thinking about as a major exporter 191 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 3: in the past, I don't think many people would have 192 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 3: realized how significant they are. The fact that just a 193 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 3: disruption in Ukraine is able to create kind of famine 194 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 3: like conditions in for example, parts of Africa. That suggests 195 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 3: that our global food networks are pretty fragile. 196 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 2: And deeply interconnected as well. 197 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 3: That's right, And when we think about climate change and 198 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 3: what that's going to continue to do to crop yield, 199 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 3: this is not a problem that's going away. So that's 200 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 3: a really concerning sign of how poorly we're prepared for 201 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 3: this kind of thing. You can make the same point 202 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 3: about global supply networks. So there were lots of COVID 203 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 3: related disruptions to sort of shipping and freight routs across 204 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 3: the world. That again revealed just how fragile this was. 205 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 3: You think back to Christmas shopping last year, and we're 206 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 3: hearing similar warnings again. What we suddenly found was we'd 207 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 3: relied on being able to order something from the other 208 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 3: side of the world and have it arrived basically immediately, 209 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 3: but that perhaps that's not realistic, and perhaps that that 210 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 3: system is a little bit more fragile than we realized, 211 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 3: and that that can create cost pressures for all of us. 212 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 3: So I think we've had a bit of a I 213 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: guess a stress test of some of our global systems, 214 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 3: and they haven't really stood up very well to that test. 215 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 3: So that's the level on which some of the solutions 216 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 3: are global. 217 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 2: Okay, well, those all sound like very big problems and 218 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: very big solution frameworks given how dire the situation is 219 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 2: in some of these countries. Are there any shorter term fixes? 220 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, so sort of. I wish that I could just 221 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 3: stop giving such bad news and answer to all of 222 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 3: these questions are But unfortunately this is a little bit 223 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 3: of a pessimistic topic. I think the best way I 224 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 3: can answer that question is governments around the world. Again, 225 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 3: they can't waive a magic wand to make this problem 226 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 3: go away, So in a sense, they can't fix it 227 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 3: fix it, but what they can do is sort of 228 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 3: spread the pain around or shelter certain people from the pain. 229 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 3: And I think that's the best way to describe the 230 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 3: way that governments are thinking about this. So, for example, 231 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 3: a lot of governments are covering people's energy bills or 232 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 3: basic essentials for the poorest people in society and saying, okay, well, 233 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 3: we're going to shelter some of those people from the 234 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 3: worst of this. There's an idea that gets discussed, for example, 235 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 3: of a windfall tax, which is an idea that you 236 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 3: should tax energy companies that are making bank because of 237 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 3: the higher prices at the moment and use that money, 238 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 3: for example, to help people pay for their energy bills. 239 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 3: So that's one type of strategy you can think of. 240 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 3: Some others. For example, India has imposed some controls on 241 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 3: exporting essentials, saying we're not going to sell any out, 242 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 3: which is in a sense trying to shelter yourself from 243 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 3: the problem, but maybe making the problem worse for other 244 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 3: people in other parts of the world. You know, here 245 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 3: at home, when we raise interest rates. That's kind of 246 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 3: about putting the pressure on people who want to borrow 247 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 3: money to help kind of keep this problem under control. 248 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 3: So there are lots of different strategies that we've got, 249 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 3: but they all amount really to spreading the pain around 250 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 3: and shifting who bears it the most severely. The final 251 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 3: point that I want to make, though, and this is 252 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 3: I guess another interesting point from a global perspective, is 253 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,719 Speaker 3: that it's the richest governments that are in the best 254 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 3: position to do these things and to ease the pain 255 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 3: for their citizens. The poorer a government is, by which 256 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 3: I mean the harder it is for them to borrow 257 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 3: money internationally, the less money they're able to raise from 258 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 3: their people, then the less money that they have to 259 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 3: actually fight this problem and to ease the burden on 260 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 3: their populations. So it's a bit like climate change in 261 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 3: that sense, and a lot of global problems at the 262 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 3: moment where not only is the problem worse for kind 263 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 3: of the poorest or the lowest income countries, but also 264 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 3: the ability to bear that cost and the ability to 265 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 3: kind of smooth it or make it lesser is also 266 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 3: kind of eroded in those countries. So it's a really, 267 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 3: really Thawny global problem, and I think it's important as 268 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 3: much as it's not to say that it's not a 269 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 3: problem here in Australia. Clearly, I think many people will 270 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 3: be feeling pressure in there in their household budgets from 271 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 3: week to week, and that's absolutely something that's worth continuing 272 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 3: to talk about. But I think it is useful to 273 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 3: have some of that global perspective. 274 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 2: It definitely is. Tom, thank you so much for hubbing 275 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: on today's episode of The Daily Odds. If you learned 276 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 2: something new from the episode, feel free to send it 277 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 2: to a friend. It's what helps us as a small 278 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 2: media company grow and we so appreciate your support. Have 279 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 2: a brilliant Wednesday.