WEBVTT - Eamon Sullivan - Ordineroli Speaking 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:08.720 Ordinarily speaking, silver meth of the Olympics should be something. 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.280 To celebrate, but I saw it as a failure. 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:21.840 Takes time. 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:31.440 Hello and welcome to Ordinarily speaking, I'm Narrowly Meadows and 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:35.519 my guest this episode is three time Olympian Aimon Sullivan. 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:38.599 At the peak of his powers, Aimen was the world's 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:42.159 fastest man in the pool, a world record holder in 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.879 both the fifty and one hundred meters. He overcame injury 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:49.839 setback after injury setback across his career, but that was 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:54.720 nothing compared to recovering from the disappointment of not winning gold. 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.200 This episode delves into the psyche of what it's like 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:02.320 to be an Olympic favorite, under immense pressure both internally 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:06.720 and externally, and coming up short. For Amon, it's an 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.200 ongoing process. Twelve years after winning silver in the one 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.520 hundred and coming sixth in the fifty at the Beijing Olympics, 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:17.280 he's only just coming to terms with it. He says 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.360 he wants to get to a point where he can 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:23.720 proudly tell his kids Daddy won silver and not feel 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.720 that pang of regret. I hope you enjoyed the chat. 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:37.120 You are. 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.160 Well, Aiman, Thanks for having me in one of your venues. 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:38.679 Where do we find ourselves today? 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:42.720 Today we are in Pogo, which is only been open 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:43.640 for a few days now. 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.479 It's a far cry from where we first met. I 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.160 think we first met two thousand and seven, two thousand 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:53.800 and eight, around twelve years ago. You were absolutely flying, 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:56.640 but you spoke about all of the injuries that you'd 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.280 already gone through at that time, and it was an 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.480 astronomy cool list. Now, twelve years on, run me through 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:05.840 the injuries that you've had throughout the course of your 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:06.600 swimming career. 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.320 It's been I've been retired for five years now. I 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.519 haven't had to think about what my body feels like anymore. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:14.440 I just sort of deal with it. 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:19.520 But so I had five label tears early on in 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.480 my career. That's sort of what started the surgeries for me, 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.400 which is basically cartidge and a hip joint that tears, 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:29.040 and the technology didn't exist to shave down the head 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:32.040 of your FEMA to stop that from happening. So the 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:34.920 first three were kind of not much point because it 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:36.600 just kept happening. So I had two more, but by 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.000 that time they had the technology and they fixed it 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:43.560 pretty well. So five hip arthroscopes. I've had yeah, tender 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.399 itarists and burst IDAs since I was fifteen in my shoulders, 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:49.519 which is kind of why I turned into a sprinter, 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.079 because I couldn't swim long distances because my shoulders were 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.320 really bad. And partly why I think I found a 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.880 way to swim fast whenever I wanted to was I 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.840 was kind of always in a TAA and that seemed 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:03.200 to work for me, and I kind of figured that 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.240 out too late in my career. I wish I had 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:07.360 to figure that out earlier. When I didn't have an injuries, 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:09.680 I actually swam worse because I was always over training 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.320 and I was trying to get better and doing too much. 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.040 And the times I saw my best is when I 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:18.880 had the most injuries. I had a lot of subluxed 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.400 costovertible joints, which is basically your ribs in your back 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:26.000 popping out of the spine's painful. 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:28.200 And that was, Yeah, that was just due to my dive. 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.480 I sort of tweaked my dive to be quite I guess, 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:33.800 dynamic and doing a few things to get myself off 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.240 the block a bit quicker and with a bit more force. 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:38.920 So that happened from time to time, and that related 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:43.920 to some neck injuries as well. I had dislocated fingers 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:45.400 and stuff touching the wall. 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:47.920 Just prone to injuries, I guess. 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:49.440 So how many surgeries did you have? 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:50.760 Oh? Yeah, and I had. 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:55.120 I had three shoulder surgeries in the two years just before. 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.240 I retired as well reconstructions. No, not reconstruction, it's just 0:03:58.240 --> 0:03:58.840 clean outs. 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:01.320 And that was just something that obviously fifteen years of 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:03.400 shoulder burst sardus ten to niners, there was just a 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.160 lot of scar tissue in there, so they got cleaned out. 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.160 Once I had the year off, I think it was 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.680 after London to have my first one, and that was 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.240 I had that shoulder injury in London and swam with 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:17.800 that knowing that I needed to have the surgery after 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.080 the Olympics, and the plan was to have that year 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.279 off open BIBB and Taka, which was my sort of 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:25.960 first bigger venue, have the year off and just sort 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.640 of enjoy training and get back into it, which I did, 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:30.839 but I had to have a second one in that 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:34.719 year off as well, and then came back and I 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:37.960 think I qualified won the fifty and twenty fourteen. That 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:39.480 was sort of my first comeback year. I think I 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.599 ended up having two years off kind of twenty fourteen. 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:44.800 I made the Comm Games team in twenty fourteen and 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.840 the fifty and then retired just before the Comm Games 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:50.960 having my third shoulder surgery and after that just sort 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:54.920 of having enough of worrying about my body. Oh yeah, 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.160 there's another injury. I forgot high attitude training in Arizona, 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.560 we had a really spicy chicken dish cooked dinner for 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.200 everyone one night, and it was a really spicy packet 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:04.880 sauce and it was delicious. 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:06.520 And I woke up. 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:09.800 I didn't make it as a packet sauce, but it 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.960 was spicy. And we're just in like service apartments. We 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.120 always cooked inner together and it's always that fun part 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.760 of traveling. And I woke up the next morning I 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:19.280 had a bit of stomach pain. I'm like, oh, I 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:21.600 must have been a bit more spicy than I thought. 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:23.000 I'm pretty good with spicy food. 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.200 Funny enough, we were having blood tests those mornings that 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:28.520 morning before we train, just to see the effects of 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.239 attitude on our blood and the oxygen levels and our bloods, 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:34.440 just to see what it was from before we went 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.120 up there to halfway through the training camp, and I 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:40.520 was like, Stole, I don't think I can actually train 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:42.840 this morning. I've got really bad pain in my stomach. 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.320 And everyone's like, oh, you're just being a what's the 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:49.240 right word to say on a podcast, Yeah, being a silk. 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:52.400 And the doc said, oh, look just go and get 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.200 checked out because I was feeling really bad and. 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:56.200 They're like, oh, where's the pain. 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:57.720 I was like, it's just here and there, like it's 0:05:57.800 --> 0:05:59.680 just one side and I'm like, yeah, like we should 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:01.680 probably just go get a scan, and they're like, yeah, 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.640 your appendics are about to explode. So I was literally 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:06.440 in surgery a couple of hours after that, getting my 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.320 appendix removed through a keyhole. 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.400 And yeah, they all feel a bit bad calling Missilk 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:14.279 after that. So that was another one. 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.640 But then following on from that, I actually I got 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.120 back in the pool after four days because the doctor 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:21.919 was like, oh, yeah, my son was playing basketball. 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:23.239 After four days, you'll be fine. 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.479 I found out his son was like nine, not like 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.400 an elite swimmer, you know, doing and putting a lot 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.640 of stress on your core muscles, which swimmers obviously do. 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:34.240 So I actually ended up tearing my transversive dominance muscle 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:38.679 after that, so I swam all through that training camp 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:41.720 and then came back and had a torn transversive dominance, 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.280 which I had to have I think like a month off, 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.320 and even now I still find I've got a really 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.440 bad I actually got a bad back from that because 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:51.920 I lost a lot of strength through my my core 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:54.440 had it, and then I yea from that sort of 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:59.200 got some really bulging disc down the track from that. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:01.560 Also fractured my heel once. 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.080 At a training camp as well, and no one believed 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:05.680 me with that one as well. That just remind me 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:10.040 that story. We're doing some dive training in Mexico, sort 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:11.640 of a weird one to explain. I won't explain it, 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.560 but you jump instead of upright and go feet first, 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.360 and we're in the shallow end and I was doing 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.320 the demonstration for these new kids and everyone, I just 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:22.560 watch out, it's it's shallow, but I was focusing on 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.000 doing it right that I actually didn't hear them, and 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.000 I went down straight and just my head was above 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:29.360 water by the time I landed. 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.040 And my this sounds like something that somebody like a 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.640 punta would do stupidly, not an elite swimmer. 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.280 Well I am stupid, so it kind of makes sense 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:39.280 and it's all those are the injuries I always have 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.480 the unlucky ones. And yeah, I had like stabbing pain 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:44.520 in my heel. I sort of got up and I 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:46.720 was the same thing. I was like, I'm in a 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:48.200 lot of pain. I don't think I can actually swim, 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:52.440 and say, oh, you're being a silk again, and we 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:54.680 went I got a scan. He was in Mexico, obviously 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:56.760 not the greatest healthcare over there. When I got a scan, 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.560 yeah you look fine, And I was hobbling around and 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.040 everyone thinks I was taking the piss and trying to 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:05.960 get off training and again trained through that for three weeks, 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:08.560 and we got back to Australia for a swim meet 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.000 in Sydney and I was like, this is something's not right. 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.840 I got another scan before we started the sum meet. 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:15.840 I've done two races and I get a call from 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.640 the doctor. Luckily I checked my phone. He's like, ah, 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:20.400 you need to stop right now. You've got a big 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:22.800 fracture in the back of your heel. So that was 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:24.680 another couple of weeks I had to have off after that. 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.440 So there's quite a few I've forgot about as well. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:28.960 How lonely is rehab It. 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.760 Was more the mental battle of I guess when you're 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.720 striving for that next step of knowing your competitors aren't injured, 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:38.920 will assuming they aren't, I guess you don't know if 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.880 they are. I did have times where I did go 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.959 down a rabbit hole of catastrophizing everything, But looking back 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.240 on it, that's actually what made me a better swimmer, 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.560 was that I actually wasn't over training in the big 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:53.720 picture of things. Now, on the other side of sport, 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.160 I think you blow it up in your head like 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.520 it's sport it is, you know. I wish I could 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:04.120 go back to feeling that bad in inverted commas because 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.440 compared to the real life dramas of having kids and family, 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:09.920 being in the real world where there's a lot more 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.360 at stake, it's really not the end of the world. 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.080 And I think it's when you are a sports person, 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.120 it's really hard to see it that way. It is 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:19.760 your life, it is your career, but it's something you 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:24.160 do for ten to fifteen years, and I wish you 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.720 could have the mentality you have four or five years 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:28.640 after you retire when you're actually in sport. 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:29.280 It's probably the. 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:31.840 One thing you hear at time and time again from 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.520 retired athletes, But when you're in it, you think, I 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:37.200 don't have to think like that because I've still got 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.079 have the many years, but you just never know it. 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.520 So definitely had my dark times, but we had some 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.720 great sports psychologists and you build some good relationships that 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.120 you get through it. And for me, my stress relief 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:51.040 when it was like that was just cooking. I guess 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.000 that's why I'm doing what I'm doing now. Is I 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.240 just loved when we were living in Sydney with a 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.760 few of the boys, I'd finished training early, go home 0:09:57.760 --> 0:09:59.280 and cook a big dinner for everyone, and that was 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.480 my sort of theay pudic therapeutic time. 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:03.120 I guess. 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.360 So when you're in a dark moment like that, what happened, 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:07.120 what happened for you? 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.319 I guess it would be probably going underground a little bit. 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.800 I think that mentality of like, oh if I can't 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:16.880 do this, and models would do nothing, So I'd sleep 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:21.560 in from training, or I'd miss a session, or I'd 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:25.720 just be damn about things and probably just do less 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:29.240 in general and be not as motivated. The days where 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.160 it was bad, it was that two or three days 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:33.199 I'd just sleep in and you know, you coach with 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.120 coy Go and where were You're like, oh, just you know, 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.360 I wasn't feeling it, but it took me two to 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.120 three days just to snap out of it, and then 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.360 I'd be back sort of, you know, doing as much 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:43.960 as I could, even if I couldn't do much. 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:51.600 Olympians fascinate me, particularly swimmers, because they've always had arguably 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.320 the most pressure on them in this country when it 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.880 comes to the Olympics. How do you cope with the 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:02.240 pressure of being an Olympic favorites? How did you hand 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:02.920 that pressure? 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.679 I don't think I I think I always coped with 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.960 pressure when I was when I was doing well. But 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.360 I think the big one was obviously two thousand and 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:15.080 eight when I got beaten in the hundred. 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:16.840 I just went downhill. 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.160 I wasn't ready for that at all, and I don't 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:26.440 think i'd had enough experience at that level to deal with. 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:28.600 Disappointment. 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:30.760 I think when you when you're not the favorite and 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.200 you come second, you're pissed off. That's a bit different 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.679 to being favorite wanting to win, and when it's taken 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:38.640 from you by that point one of a second, it's 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:43.320 pretty pretty brutal and trying to get yourself back up. 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.640 There was definitely for me, it was the mental The 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:50.160 mental capacity was there. I wanted to be there in 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.080 that fifty, but my body just sort of it just 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:55.920 I still remember the fear and my body was just flat. 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.920 It was just tired and so much emotional energy. 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.560 Went into that race and build up, and I guess 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.720 the expectations I didn't think of, and I think to 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:09.839 this day, I probably you know you still, even though 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.120 you think you don't care what other people think, you 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:14.640 kind of do, and especially a sprinter, you do have 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.320 a bit of an ego. I'm not an egotistical person, 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.079 but you want to be the fastest, You want to 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.880 be the best, even if you say you don't care. 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.440 I guess part of me did, and it's still taking 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:26.920 me a bit of time even to this day to 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:32.800 get over it. It's one of the classic thing is 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.480 it's like I made the biggest rookie mistake on the 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.400 biggest day of my life in that hundred, assuming someone 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.200 else's race rather than doing what I do best. 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:42.040 And that's probably the only thing I regret. 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.400 And at the time tell us what that means. 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:45.800 Assuming someone else's race. 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.640 So my race plan was to get out in front 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.960 of everyone and make them chase me. I wasn't an 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.880 endurance athlete, but I was fast. I had easy speed, 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.360 and I could get far enough ahead of people and 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.720 have enough energy in the tank to usually hold on, 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.959 as opposed to some of like Michael Phelps, would always 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.360 start way behind and drive over the top of people. 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.760 So that was sort of my I guess it's a strength, 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:12.960 but it's also a weakness and racing a lame Bernard. 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:15.439 We were pretty similar, like we're both reasonably fast on 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:19.000 the first fifty and pretty strong on the second fifty 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.839 in two thousand and eight, and in the I think 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:25.040 we're going back and forth with that one hundred world record. 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.000 So he was the word record hold leading in in 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.040 one hundred. I was the word record holder in the fifty. 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:32.600 I broke his world record in the lead off of 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.360 the four by one by I think point point one 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.359 of a second. And then in one hundred freestyle individual 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.840 in the semifinals, he broke my word record in the 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.680 first semifinal I think by point zero five or something, 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:47.440 and then I came out two minutes later and broke 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.320 it back by point two or three of a second. 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.040 So forty seven zero five. 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.680 I think it was, you know, in point two point 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.000 three of a second doesn't sound like much, but consuming terms, 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.719 it is, so I guess I was pretty confident going 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.800 from that semi finals the final. I remember having the 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.360 conversation my coach stead of going, oh yeah, what I 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.000 can probably do is just be out in front of 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:09.600 his shoulder and just try and take it a little 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.920 bit easier in that first fifty, so I have enough 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:13.960 energy on that second fifty to really hammer it home 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.560 as opposed to going, this is what I'm doing and 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.640 not even talking about his race plan. And as soon 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:22.240 as I dived in, he was already in front of 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.360 me and I was playing catch up the whole race. 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.040 So my game plan went out the window. And it 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.560 really rattles you when you're not in control, especially when 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.280 you're a speed athlete and you used to being in 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.320 front with people chasing you. So my technique went out 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.400 the window. I was rushed and unfortunately, air got pipped 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:39.880 at the post by point one of a second. 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:41.920 So were you panicking while you're swimming? 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:44.200 What's a mental space not panicking? 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.840 I wasn't as far out of control as I thought, 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.080 But you know, I wasn't where I wanted to be, 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.000 So as soon as I turned in that second fifty 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.240 and he was already he was in front of me, 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:56.800 that was when I started going, oh shit, I've stuffed 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.920 this up. And you go from being confident to going 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.880 what have I done? And you know, it's that that 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.200 classic case of you've got to wait four years if 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.960 you get another chance, which I didn't obviously individually. So 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.640 it's one of those things that it's hard to see 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.920 the positives of getting a silver medal at Olympics, which 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.880 anyone would be happy with, which if I wasn't favorite, 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.240 that would have been a dream come true to get 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.200 a silver Olympics in an individual event? 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:26.640 Does times slow down in that moment, the moment from 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:29.680 when you go, oh shit, I've stuffed this up to 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:30.720 touching the wall. 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.840 What I certainly remember more of that race than races 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.360 that you win and everything goes to plan. I don't 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.920 remember much of because it happens so organically and you 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:45.440 just feel you don't. It's automation. When things are going wrong, 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.160 you're aware of a lot more stuff. So I remember 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:49.920 a lot of that race. I remember my reaction. I 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:56.080 remember every single thing in that moment, and it's something 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:56.760 that I still have. 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:57.400 I still have. 0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:59.760 I still have dreams of making comebacks because I think, 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.000 see deep down, I want to come back and prove myself. 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:04.920 But I think that's some of that mentality. I'm still 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.440 trying to shad as a you know, an ex Olympian 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:09.840 now in business and being in the real life of 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.440 trying to be the best at stuff. I think that's 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.280 probably the thing I've found the hardest to get rid 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.680 of is just finding a different groove now that I'm retired, 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.440 and just being happy being a person, being a family member, 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.440 and not having to be the best at everything. I'm 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:27.560 still competitive with everything I do, like video games, and 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.520 I think with mates, you kind of still want to beat, 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.160 you know, And I'm starting to just enjoy, you know, 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.480 playing social water polo on Wednesday nights and getting I 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:38.400 get beaten in the sim off legs to get the 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:42.360 ball because I'm unfit, and you know, it's hard to 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.720 hearing everyone get excited that people are beating me, but 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:46.720 I kind of I'm starting to not. 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:47.200 Care about it. 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:48.960 But at the start, I didn't want to do the 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:51.200 swim up because I didn't want to get beaten. But 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.160 now I'm just doing it because it's fun and that's 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.200 what it's all about. So I think it's it's definitely 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:59.240 hard to shed that mentality. 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.080 When you reflect on that race and you talk about 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:03.600 it as in depth as you are, Now, how do 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:05.200 you feel inside when you talk about it? 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.760 I feel better about it now, I think. You know, Actually, 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:10.360 recently I've started seeing. 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:11.760 We're talking twelve years on, aren't we? 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.680 Yeah? Is it twelve years? It is? Yeah? Yeah. 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.240 I actually did start seeing a psychologist recently just to 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.560 just to talk. I think I used to speak to 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.520 sports psychologists every other week, and now that I've got 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:29.639 six businesses to kids, you know, the life is stressful 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:31.680 and it's hard. There's not many people you do talk 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:33.479 to about that stuff anymore. You don't talk to your 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.640 friends about, you know, how busy are it works because 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:38.760 everyone's busy. It's a different type of thing. And you 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.320 don't want to download on your wife everything that's going 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.800 on because she's got two kids at home, and I 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.560 kind of I reckon she's got it tougher than I do, so, 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:50.280 you know, and that's part of it that I've been 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:55.240 speaking about, is that the expectation I've always had of myself, 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.160 and I think it relates to that race of where 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.359 I'm out at life now. Did I need to open 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.840 five or six businesses? Probably not. I probably could have 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:05.520 just done one and been happy with that. But I 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.119 think that athlete mentality is stuck with me, and I 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.320 think it's what's driven me to do what we do. 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.960 And with my business partner Scott and you know, Steve 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:15.919 Hooker and Jamie do I are business partners and a 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:17.560 few of them and a lot of them as well, 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:19.840 I think that mentality I've always wanted to get bigger 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:20.200 and better. 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:22.760 Is that athlete mentality is part of it. 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.240 Also trying to feel a void of what you didn't 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:28.800 you know that in your mind you didn't achieve the ultimate. 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:34.280 Maybe I don't know. I think it's a bit of both. Maybe. 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.120 So Yeah, I guess I reflect on that race, and yeah, 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:39.040 for the first for the first year especially, I. 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:40.200 Didn't want to look at it. I didn't want to 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:40.880 talk about it. 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.439 I felt like I failed, which is a really shitty 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.320