Speaker 1: Ordinarily speaking, silver meth of the Olympics should be something.
Speaker 2: To celebrate, but I saw it as a failure.
Speaker 3: Takes time.
Speaker 4: Hello and welcome to Ordinarily speaking, I'm Narrowly Meadows and
Speaker 4: my guest this episode is three time Olympian Aimon Sullivan.
Speaker 4: At the peak of his powers, Aimen was the world's
Speaker 4: fastest man in the pool, a world record holder in
Speaker 4: both the fifty and one hundred meters. He overcame injury
Speaker 4: setback after injury setback across his career, but that was
Speaker 4: nothing compared to recovering from the disappointment of not winning gold.
Speaker 4: This episode delves into the psyche of what it's like
Speaker 4: to be an Olympic favorite, under immense pressure both internally
Speaker 4: and externally, and coming up short. For Amon, it's an
Speaker 4: ongoing process. Twelve years after winning silver in the one
Speaker 4: hundred and coming sixth in the fifty at the Beijing Olympics,
Speaker 4: he's only just coming to terms with it. He says
Speaker 4: he wants to get to a point where he can
Speaker 4: proudly tell his kids Daddy won silver and not feel
Speaker 4: that pang of regret. I hope you enjoyed the chat.
Speaker 3: You are.
Speaker 4: Well, Aiman, Thanks for having me in one of your venues.
Speaker 4: Where do we find ourselves today?
Speaker 1: Today we are in Pogo, which is only been open
Speaker 1: for a few days now.
Speaker 4: It's a far cry from where we first met. I
Speaker 4: think we first met two thousand and seven, two thousand
Speaker 4: and eight, around twelve years ago. You were absolutely flying,
Speaker 4: but you spoke about all of the injuries that you'd
Speaker 4: already gone through at that time, and it was an
Speaker 4: astronomy cool list. Now, twelve years on, run me through
Speaker 4: the injuries that you've had throughout the course of your
Speaker 4: swimming career.
Speaker 1: It's been I've been retired for five years now. I
Speaker 1: haven't had to think about what my body feels like anymore.
Speaker 2: I just sort of deal with it.
Speaker 1: But so I had five label tears early on in
Speaker 1: my career. That's sort of what started the surgeries for me,
Speaker 1: which is basically cartidge and a hip joint that tears,
Speaker 1: and the technology didn't exist to shave down the head
Speaker 1: of your FEMA to stop that from happening. So the
Speaker 1: first three were kind of not much point because it
Speaker 1: just kept happening. So I had two more, but by
Speaker 1: that time they had the technology and they fixed it
Speaker 1: pretty well. So five hip arthroscopes. I've had yeah, tender
Speaker 1: itarists and burst IDAs since I was fifteen in my shoulders,
Speaker 1: which is kind of why I turned into a sprinter,
Speaker 1: because I couldn't swim long distances because my shoulders were
Speaker 1: really bad. And partly why I think I found a
Speaker 1: way to swim fast whenever I wanted to was I
Speaker 1: was kind of always in a TAA and that seemed
Speaker 1: to work for me, and I kind of figured that
Speaker 1: out too late in my career. I wish I had
Speaker 1: to figure that out earlier. When I didn't have an injuries,
Speaker 1: I actually swam worse because I was always over training
Speaker 1: and I was trying to get better and doing too much.
Speaker 1: And the times I saw my best is when I
Speaker 1: had the most injuries. I had a lot of subluxed
Speaker 1: costovertible joints, which is basically your ribs in your back
Speaker 1: popping out of the spine's painful.
Speaker 2: And that was, Yeah, that was just due to my dive.
Speaker 1: I sort of tweaked my dive to be quite I guess,
Speaker 1: dynamic and doing a few things to get myself off
Speaker 1: the block a bit quicker and with a bit more force.
Speaker 1: So that happened from time to time, and that related
Speaker 1: to some neck injuries as well. I had dislocated fingers
Speaker 1: and stuff touching the wall.
Speaker 2: Just prone to injuries, I guess.
Speaker 4: So how many surgeries did you have?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, and I had.
Speaker 1: I had three shoulder surgeries in the two years just before.
Speaker 2: I retired as well reconstructions. No, not reconstruction, it's just
Speaker 2: clean outs.
Speaker 1: And that was just something that obviously fifteen years of
Speaker 1: shoulder burst sardus ten to niners, there was just a
Speaker 1: lot of scar tissue in there, so they got cleaned out.
Speaker 1: Once I had the year off, I think it was
Speaker 1: after London to have my first one, and that was
Speaker 1: I had that shoulder injury in London and swam with
Speaker 1: that knowing that I needed to have the surgery after
Speaker 1: the Olympics, and the plan was to have that year
Speaker 1: off open BIBB and Taka, which was my sort of
Speaker 1: first bigger venue, have the year off and just sort
Speaker 1: of enjoy training and get back into it, which I did,
Speaker 1: but I had to have a second one in that
Speaker 1: year off as well, and then came back and I
Speaker 1: think I qualified won the fifty and twenty fourteen. That
Speaker 1: was sort of my first comeback year. I think I
Speaker 1: ended up having two years off kind of twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1: I made the Comm Games team in twenty fourteen and
Speaker 1: the fifty and then retired just before the Comm Games
Speaker 1: having my third shoulder surgery and after that just sort
Speaker 1: of having enough of worrying about my body. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: there's another injury. I forgot high attitude training in Arizona,
Speaker 1: we had a really spicy chicken dish cooked dinner for
Speaker 1: everyone one night, and it was a really spicy packet
Speaker 1: sauce and it was delicious.
Speaker 2: And I woke up.
Speaker 1: I didn't make it as a packet sauce, but it
Speaker 1: was spicy. And we're just in like service apartments. We
Speaker 1: always cooked inner together and it's always that fun part
Speaker 1: of traveling. And I woke up the next morning I
Speaker 1: had a bit of stomach pain. I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 1: must have been a bit more spicy than I thought.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty good with spicy food.
Speaker 1: Funny enough, we were having blood tests those mornings that
Speaker 1: morning before we train, just to see the effects of
Speaker 1: attitude on our blood and the oxygen levels and our bloods,
Speaker 1: just to see what it was from before we went
Speaker 1: up there to halfway through the training camp, and I
Speaker 1: was like, Stole, I don't think I can actually train
Speaker 1: this morning. I've got really bad pain in my stomach.
Speaker 1: And everyone's like, oh, you're just being a what's the
Speaker 1: right word to say on a podcast, Yeah, being a silk.
Speaker 1: And the doc said, oh, look just go and get
Speaker 1: checked out because I was feeling really bad and.
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, where's the pain.
Speaker 1: I was like, it's just here and there, like it's
Speaker 1: just one side and I'm like, yeah, like we should
Speaker 1: probably just go get a scan, and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: your appendics are about to explode. So I was literally
Speaker 1: in surgery a couple of hours after that, getting my
Speaker 1: appendix removed through a keyhole.
Speaker 2: And yeah, they all feel a bit bad calling Missilk
Speaker 2: after that. So that was another one.
Speaker 1: But then following on from that, I actually I got
Speaker 1: back in the pool after four days because the doctor
Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, my son was playing basketball.
Speaker 2: After four days, you'll be fine.
Speaker 1: I found out his son was like nine, not like
Speaker 1: an elite swimmer, you know, doing and putting a lot
Speaker 1: of stress on your core muscles, which swimmers obviously do.
Speaker 1: So I actually ended up tearing my transversive dominance muscle
Speaker 1: after that, so I swam all through that training camp
Speaker 1: and then came back and had a torn transversive dominance,
Speaker 1: which I had to have I think like a month off,
Speaker 1: and even now I still find I've got a really
Speaker 1: bad I actually got a bad back from that because
Speaker 1: I lost a lot of strength through my my core
Speaker 1: had it, and then I yea from that sort of
Speaker 1: got some really bulging disc down the track from that.
Speaker 2: Also fractured my heel once.
Speaker 1: At a training camp as well, and no one believed
Speaker 1: me with that one as well. That just remind me
Speaker 1: that story. We're doing some dive training in Mexico, sort
Speaker 1: of a weird one to explain. I won't explain it,
Speaker 1: but you jump instead of upright and go feet first,
Speaker 1: and we're in the shallow end and I was doing
Speaker 1: the demonstration for these new kids and everyone, I just
Speaker 1: watch out, it's it's shallow, but I was focusing on
Speaker 1: doing it right that I actually didn't hear them, and
Speaker 1: I went down straight and just my head was above
Speaker 1: water by the time I landed.
Speaker 4: And my this sounds like something that somebody like a
Speaker 4: punta would do stupidly, not an elite swimmer.
Speaker 1: Well I am stupid, so it kind of makes sense
Speaker 1: and it's all those are the injuries I always have
Speaker 1: the unlucky ones. And yeah, I had like stabbing pain
Speaker 1: in my heel. I sort of got up and I
Speaker 1: was the same thing. I was like, I'm in a
Speaker 1: lot of pain. I don't think I can actually swim,
Speaker 1: and say, oh, you're being a silk again, and we
Speaker 1: went I got a scan. He was in Mexico, obviously
Speaker 1: not the greatest healthcare over there. When I got a scan,
Speaker 1: yeah you look fine, And I was hobbling around and
Speaker 1: everyone thinks I was taking the piss and trying to
Speaker 1: get off training and again trained through that for three weeks,
Speaker 1: and we got back to Australia for a swim meet
Speaker 1: in Sydney and I was like, this is something's not right.
Speaker 1: I got another scan before we started the sum meet.
Speaker 1: I've done two races and I get a call from
Speaker 1: the doctor. Luckily I checked my phone. He's like, ah,
Speaker 1: you need to stop right now. You've got a big
Speaker 1: fracture in the back of your heel. So that was
Speaker 1: another couple of weeks I had to have off after that.
Speaker 1: So there's quite a few I've forgot about as well.
Speaker 4: How lonely is rehab It.
Speaker 1: Was more the mental battle of I guess when you're
Speaker 1: striving for that next step of knowing your competitors aren't injured,
Speaker 1: will assuming they aren't, I guess you don't know if
Speaker 1: they are. I did have times where I did go
Speaker 1: down a rabbit hole of catastrophizing everything, But looking back
Speaker 1: on it, that's actually what made me a better swimmer,
Speaker 1: was that I actually wasn't over training in the big
Speaker 1: picture of things. Now, on the other side of sport,
Speaker 1: I think you blow it up in your head like
Speaker 1: it's sport it is, you know. I wish I could
Speaker 1: go back to feeling that bad in inverted commas because
Speaker 1: compared to the real life dramas of having kids and family,
Speaker 1: being in the real world where there's a lot more
Speaker 1: at stake, it's really not the end of the world.
Speaker 1: And I think it's when you are a sports person,
Speaker 1: it's really hard to see it that way. It is
Speaker 1: your life, it is your career, but it's something you
Speaker 1: do for ten to fifteen years, and I wish you
Speaker 1: could have the mentality you have four or five years
Speaker 1: after you retire when you're actually in sport.
Speaker 2: It's probably the.
Speaker 1: One thing you hear at time and time again from
Speaker 1: retired athletes, But when you're in it, you think, I
Speaker 1: don't have to think like that because I've still got
Speaker 1: have the many years, but you just never know it.
Speaker 1: So definitely had my dark times, but we had some
Speaker 1: great sports psychologists and you build some good relationships that
Speaker 1: you get through it. And for me, my stress relief
Speaker 1: when it was like that was just cooking. I guess
Speaker 1: that's why I'm doing what I'm doing now. Is I
Speaker 1: just loved when we were living in Sydney with a
Speaker 1: few of the boys, I'd finished training early, go home
Speaker 1: and cook a big dinner for everyone, and that was
Speaker 1: my sort of theay pudic therapeutic time.
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 4: So when you're in a dark moment like that, what happened,
Speaker 4: what happened for you?
Speaker 1: I guess it would be probably going underground a little bit.
Speaker 1: I think that mentality of like, oh if I can't
Speaker 1: do this, and models would do nothing, So I'd sleep
Speaker 1: in from training, or I'd miss a session, or I'd
Speaker 1: just be damn about things and probably just do less
Speaker 1: in general and be not as motivated. The days where
Speaker 1: it was bad, it was that two or three days
Speaker 1: I'd just sleep in and you know, you coach with
Speaker 1: coy Go and where were You're like, oh, just you know,
Speaker 1: I wasn't feeling it, but it took me two to
Speaker 1: three days just to snap out of it, and then
Speaker 1: I'd be back sort of, you know, doing as much
Speaker 1: as I could, even if I couldn't do much.
Speaker 4: Olympians fascinate me, particularly swimmers, because they've always had arguably
Speaker 4: the most pressure on them in this country when it
Speaker 4: comes to the Olympics. How do you cope with the
Speaker 4: pressure of being an Olympic favorites? How did you hand
Speaker 4: that pressure?
Speaker 1: I don't think I I think I always coped with
Speaker 1: pressure when I was when I was doing well. But
Speaker 1: I think the big one was obviously two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight when I got beaten in the hundred.
Speaker 2: I just went downhill.
Speaker 1: I wasn't ready for that at all, and I don't
Speaker 1: think i'd had enough experience at that level to deal with.
Speaker 2: Disappointment.
Speaker 1: I think when you when you're not the favorite and
Speaker 1: you come second, you're pissed off. That's a bit different
Speaker 1: to being favorite wanting to win, and when it's taken
Speaker 1: from you by that point one of a second, it's
Speaker 1: pretty pretty brutal and trying to get yourself back up.
Speaker 1: There was definitely for me, it was the mental The
Speaker 1: mental capacity was there. I wanted to be there in
Speaker 1: that fifty, but my body just sort of it just
Speaker 1: I still remember the fear and my body was just flat.
Speaker 2: It was just tired and so much emotional energy.
Speaker 1: Went into that race and build up, and I guess
Speaker 1: the expectations I didn't think of, and I think to
Speaker 1: this day, I probably you know you still, even though
Speaker 1: you think you don't care what other people think, you
Speaker 1: kind of do, and especially a sprinter, you do have
Speaker 1: a bit of an ego. I'm not an egotistical person,
Speaker 1: but you want to be the fastest, You want to
Speaker 1: be the best, even if you say you don't care.
Speaker 1: I guess part of me did, and it's still taking
Speaker 1: me a bit of time even to this day to
Speaker 1: get over it. It's one of the classic thing is
Speaker 1: it's like I made the biggest rookie mistake on the
Speaker 1: biggest day of my life in that hundred, assuming someone
Speaker 1: else's race rather than doing what I do best.
Speaker 2: And that's probably the only thing I regret.
Speaker 4: And at the time tell us what that means.
Speaker 2: Assuming someone else's race.
Speaker 1: So my race plan was to get out in front
Speaker 1: of everyone and make them chase me. I wasn't an
Speaker 1: endurance athlete, but I was fast. I had easy speed,
Speaker 1: and I could get far enough ahead of people and
Speaker 1: have enough energy in the tank to usually hold on,
Speaker 1: as opposed to some of like Michael Phelps, would always
Speaker 1: start way behind and drive over the top of people.
Speaker 1: So that was sort of my I guess it's a strength,
Speaker 1: but it's also a weakness and racing a lame Bernard.
Speaker 1: We were pretty similar, like we're both reasonably fast on
Speaker 1: the first fifty and pretty strong on the second fifty
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, and in the I think
Speaker 1: we're going back and forth with that one hundred world record.
Speaker 1: So he was the word record hold leading in in
Speaker 1: one hundred. I was the word record holder in the fifty.
Speaker 1: I broke his world record in the lead off of
Speaker 1: the four by one by I think point point one
Speaker 1: of a second. And then in one hundred freestyle individual
Speaker 1: in the semifinals, he broke my word record in the
Speaker 1: first semifinal I think by point zero five or something,
Speaker 1: and then I came out two minutes later and broke
Speaker 1: it back by point two or three of a second.
Speaker 2: So forty seven zero five.
Speaker 1: I think it was, you know, in point two point
Speaker 1: three of a second doesn't sound like much, but consuming terms,
Speaker 1: it is, so I guess I was pretty confident going
Speaker 1: from that semi finals the final. I remember having the
Speaker 1: conversation my coach stead of going, oh yeah, what I
Speaker 1: can probably do is just be out in front of
Speaker 1: his shoulder and just try and take it a little
Speaker 1: bit easier in that first fifty, so I have enough
Speaker 1: energy on that second fifty to really hammer it home
Speaker 1: as opposed to going, this is what I'm doing and
Speaker 1: not even talking about his race plan. And as soon
Speaker 1: as I dived in, he was already in front of
Speaker 1: me and I was playing catch up the whole race.
Speaker 1: So my game plan went out the window. And it
Speaker 1: really rattles you when you're not in control, especially when
Speaker 1: you're a speed athlete and you used to being in
Speaker 1: front with people chasing you. So my technique went out
Speaker 1: the window. I was rushed and unfortunately, air got pipped
Speaker 1: at the post by point one of a second.
Speaker 4: So were you panicking while you're swimming?
Speaker 2: What's a mental space not panicking?
Speaker 1: I wasn't as far out of control as I thought,
Speaker 1: But you know, I wasn't where I wanted to be,
Speaker 1: So as soon as I turned in that second fifty
Speaker 1: and he was already he was in front of me,
Speaker 1: that was when I started going, oh shit, I've stuffed
Speaker 1: this up. And you go from being confident to going
Speaker 1: what have I done? And you know, it's that that
Speaker 1: classic case of you've got to wait four years if
Speaker 1: you get another chance, which I didn't obviously individually. So
Speaker 1: it's one of those things that it's hard to see
Speaker 1: the positives of getting a silver medal at Olympics, which
Speaker 1: anyone would be happy with, which if I wasn't favorite,
Speaker 1: that would have been a dream come true to get
Speaker 1: a silver Olympics in an individual event?
Speaker 4: Does times slow down in that moment, the moment from
Speaker 4: when you go, oh shit, I've stuffed this up to
Speaker 4: touching the wall.
Speaker 1: What I certainly remember more of that race than races
Speaker 1: that you win and everything goes to plan. I don't
Speaker 1: remember much of because it happens so organically and you
Speaker 1: just feel you don't. It's automation. When things are going wrong,
Speaker 1: you're aware of a lot more stuff. So I remember
Speaker 1: a lot of that race. I remember my reaction. I
Speaker 1: remember every single thing in that moment, and it's something
Speaker 1: that I still have.
Speaker 2: I still have.
Speaker 1: I still have dreams of making comebacks because I think,
Speaker 1: see deep down, I want to come back and prove myself.
Speaker 1: But I think that's some of that mentality. I'm still
Speaker 1: trying to shad as a you know, an ex Olympian
Speaker 1: now in business and being in the real life of
Speaker 1: trying to be the best at stuff. I think that's
Speaker 1: probably the thing I've found the hardest to get rid
Speaker 1: of is just finding a different groove now that I'm retired,
Speaker 1: and just being happy being a person, being a family member,
Speaker 1: and not having to be the best at everything. I'm
Speaker 1: still competitive with everything I do, like video games, and
Speaker 1: I think with mates, you kind of still want to beat,
Speaker 1: you know, And I'm starting to just enjoy, you know,
Speaker 1: playing social water polo on Wednesday nights and getting I
Speaker 1: get beaten in the sim off legs to get the
Speaker 1: ball because I'm unfit, and you know, it's hard to
Speaker 1: hearing everyone get excited that people are beating me, but
Speaker 1: I kind of I'm starting to not.
Speaker 2: Care about it.
Speaker 1: But at the start, I didn't want to do the
Speaker 1: swim up because I didn't want to get beaten. But
Speaker 1: now I'm just doing it because it's fun and that's
Speaker 1: what it's all about. So I think it's it's definitely
Speaker 1: hard to shed that mentality.
Speaker 4: When you reflect on that race and you talk about
Speaker 4: it as in depth as you are, Now, how do
Speaker 4: you feel inside when you talk about it?
Speaker 1: I feel better about it now, I think. You know, Actually,
Speaker 1: recently I've started seeing.
Speaker 4: We're talking twelve years on, aren't we?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Is it twelve years? It is? Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 1: I actually did start seeing a psychologist recently just to
Speaker 1: just to talk. I think I used to speak to
Speaker 1: sports psychologists every other week, and now that I've got
Speaker 1: six businesses to kids, you know, the life is stressful
Speaker 1: and it's hard. There's not many people you do talk
Speaker 1: to about that stuff anymore. You don't talk to your
Speaker 1: friends about, you know, how busy are it works because
Speaker 1: everyone's busy. It's a different type of thing. And you
Speaker 1: don't want to download on your wife everything that's going
Speaker 1: on because she's got two kids at home, and I
Speaker 1: kind of I reckon she's got it tougher than I do, so,
Speaker 1: you know, and that's part of it that I've been
Speaker 1: speaking about, is that the expectation I've always had of myself,
Speaker 1: and I think it relates to that race of where
Speaker 1: I'm out at life now. Did I need to open
Speaker 1: five or six businesses? Probably not. I probably could have
Speaker 1: just done one and been happy with that. But I
Speaker 1: think that athlete mentality is stuck with me, and I
Speaker 1: think it's what's driven me to do what we do.
Speaker 1: And with my business partner Scott and you know, Steve
Speaker 1: Hooker and Jamie do I are business partners and a
Speaker 1: few of them and a lot of them as well,
Speaker 1: I think that mentality I've always wanted to get bigger
Speaker 1: and better.
Speaker 2: Is that athlete mentality is part of it.
Speaker 4: Also trying to feel a void of what you didn't
Speaker 4: you know that in your mind you didn't achieve the ultimate.
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know. I think it's a bit of both. Maybe.
Speaker 1: So Yeah, I guess I reflect on that race, and yeah,
Speaker 1: for the first for the first year especially, I.
Speaker 2: Didn't want to look at it. I didn't want to
Speaker 2: talk about it.
Speaker 1: I felt like I failed, which is a really shitty
Speaker 1: way to feel. It's hard to not think like that,
Speaker 1: I suppose when you're so invested in something and I
Speaker 1: think look now, like I referred to earlier of realizing
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, Olympic silver and Olympic gold and at
Speaker 1: the time that's your whole life. Now I've got two
Speaker 1: kids looking back on what would I choose kids? You know,
Speaker 1: And I think I've set my wife and I've talked
Speaker 1: about it quite a bit. If I had I've got
Speaker 1: that gold medal, would I be at this point in
Speaker 1: time in.
Speaker 2: My life and have met her?
Speaker 1: Would I've been at the Lama bar and Subiaco, you know,
Speaker 1: drowning my sorrows and meet like meeting her? Or would
Speaker 1: I have, you know, stayed in Sydney or to live
Speaker 1: and you know, retired earlier because I might have had
Speaker 1: a bit more money and who knows, but I probably
Speaker 1: life would be different. So I think I've always been
Speaker 1: a big believer if everything happens for a reason. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it's hard to think like that, especially at that time.
Speaker 1: But now I am where I am now, I certainly
Speaker 1: think it all happened for a reason, and I'm starting
Speaker 1: to find peace with it, even though it's so close.
Speaker 1: I would have loved to have had that gold medal,
Speaker 1: but certainly now I'm in the mindset of I don't
Speaker 1: want my sporting creator to find who I am as
Speaker 1: a person, and I'm really enjoying where I am at life.
Speaker 1: I love being back in Perth. I love the fact
Speaker 1: that I've got two beautiful kids. I'm obviously married to Naomi,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's taken twelve years to get there.
Speaker 1: But I certainly believe, Yeah, things happen for a reason,
Speaker 1: and it does define who you are and how you
Speaker 1: deal with things. So I certainly didn't deal with it
Speaker 1: great the first couple of years. But the fact that I'm,
Speaker 1: you know, found another passion and it drove me into
Speaker 1: another passion.
Speaker 2: I certainly think that's.
Speaker 1: Sort of what fueled me getting into this and probably
Speaker 1: going as hard as we have with what we do,
Speaker 1: probably harder than we should have. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: if I had got God, I might not have wanted
Speaker 1: to jump into real life as soon as I did
Speaker 1: and everything. So, yeah, I think I do believe anything
Speaker 1: happens for a reason.
Speaker 4: So that moment, because there's the famous shot of Bernard
Speaker 4: and you in the background sort of slightly out of focus,
Speaker 4: and you just you have that look on your face
Speaker 4: like what just happened? This can't be real.
Speaker 1: It was more like your EF kidding me because I
Speaker 1: knew exactly what happens.
Speaker 4: It's a podcast. You can swear if you Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was like, you're fucking kidding me, You an idiot.
Speaker 2: I was more angry at myself, Like he swam a
Speaker 2: good race.
Speaker 1: He was, he was point, he was the same time
Speaker 1: he did in the semi. I was point too slower.
Speaker 1: If I had to swim my time that the semi,
Speaker 1: I would have won by point two of a second.
Speaker 1: Happy Days. So yeah, I was. I was pretty pretty
Speaker 1: raw about that. But I was honest in my interview
Speaker 1: and I said the better man one other day, which
Speaker 1: was true. He swam his race, I didn't swim mine,
Speaker 1: and that's that's the rookie mistake.
Speaker 4: Does the four years that you've put into it come
Speaker 4: into your mind in that moment.
Speaker 2: No, not really.
Speaker 1: No, you know, being at the Olympics and being with
Speaker 1: your team, that's for me, that's what it was all about.
Speaker 1: And that's the only thing I miss about swimming is
Speaker 1: traveling the world with your mates and having fun. I
Speaker 1: think that's what I missed the most. You know, and
Speaker 1: when you've got two kids and you can't leave the
Speaker 1: house on a Sunday because one's asleep and the other
Speaker 1: ones having a tantrum. You think about when you used
Speaker 1: to be in Monaco at the man Ostrom tour, and
Speaker 1: or you can eat buffet every night in a nice
Speaker 1: hotel and you know Prince Albert's putting on soirees for you.
Speaker 2: It's it's pretty good life.
Speaker 1: It's a fair way from that. So yeah, I think
Speaker 1: at the time, you don't. You don't think of it
Speaker 1: like that. But yeah, as soon as as I retired,
Speaker 1: that's certain thing I missed. I missed competing and I
Speaker 1: missed traveling. The training side, I always hated. That's a sprinter.
Speaker 4: Black line on the whole bottom of the book.
Speaker 2: You never I never thought I looked at it until
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 1: Like an open water swim and I swam in a
Speaker 1: zigzag like you don't realize how much you actually needed.
Speaker 1: I'm useless of open water swimming. But yeah, the training
Speaker 1: side of it, I never enjoyed it. But I enjoyed
Speaker 1: the camaraderie of pushing yourself to limit with your mates
Speaker 1: and the mates you meet along the way.
Speaker 4: You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Aim and Sullivan, you
Speaker 4: obviously have that race and you win silver. So I
Speaker 4: know you feel like you lose gold, but you win silver,
Speaker 4: and then the fifty meter is well where you end
Speaker 4: up coming six. So a lot of people look at
Speaker 4: that as being the greater disappointment, but you see the
Speaker 4: one hundred meter as is that fair?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. I listened to it as a podcast
Speaker 1: called the can I plug other podcasts?
Speaker 4: Of course she can.
Speaker 2: I listened to a few podcasts.
Speaker 4: But as long as you listen to this one as well, I'll.
Speaker 2: Listen to this episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's one called the Happiness Lab, and there's actually
Speaker 1: a one on Olympic silver medalists and did the study
Speaker 1: of happiness of the podiums at Olympic Games, and the
Speaker 1: silver medal is always the most unhappy person on the podium,
Speaker 1: which makes sense, and it was very relative to me.
Speaker 1: I think they talked to Michelle Kwan, the figure skater.
Speaker 1: They got silver and a fifteen year old beat her,
Speaker 1: but she was so happy just to be there and
Speaker 1: couldn't have done any better. She had a great score
Speaker 1: and she was happy. Whereas the people know that they
Speaker 1: could have done better, we're always the unhappy ones.
Speaker 2: And I think that's my category to a t.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's an interesting you reflecting on that, But
Speaker 1: certainly the fifty I was actually I felt like I
Speaker 1: did try and dig myself out of that mental hole
Speaker 1: that I was in, but I dived in and my
Speaker 1: GoGG was filled up that day, and I think I
Speaker 1: was ahead at the twenty five, and my gog was
Speaker 1: a full of water. I didn't know where I was,
Speaker 1: what was going on, and I panicked a little bit.
Speaker 1: And it's not an excuse, So it shouldn't be an
Speaker 1: excuse because you trained for that not to happen, but
Speaker 1: that c only happened to me twice in my career.
Speaker 1: God was filling up with water, so it was a
Speaker 1: little bit unlucky. But yeah, I was more disappointed about
Speaker 1: the hundred because when you come sixth, you were never
Speaker 1: you know that mentality. You come second, you lost gold,
Speaker 1: You come third, it's better than fourth. You come fourth,
Speaker 1: you missed third, that's shit. You come six you were
Speaker 1: never in it anyway. So as long as you did
Speaker 1: a good time, you're happy. I didn't do a great time.
Speaker 1: Obviously I was a word record holder, but I think
Speaker 1: I was already so down about the one hundred that
Speaker 1: it didn't even register for me. That I'd miss something there.
Speaker 1: I was disappointed, but I was already defeated mentally going
Speaker 1: into that race, I think even though I tried my
Speaker 1: best to dig myself out of that whole, so you know,
Speaker 1: I was lucky. I still had a great meet with
Speaker 1: the With the relays, we got a silver in the
Speaker 1: four by one bronze sorry, and a silver in the
Speaker 1: four by one medley, So I did a pretty good
Speaker 1: last leg of that. And when you're doing a relay,
Speaker 1: it's always a different energy level as well. So I
Speaker 1: walked away from that relatively successful, you know, but not
Speaker 1: what I wanted to be.
Speaker 4: And that's what I wanted to say. Because you're a
Speaker 4: three time Olympic medalist, two silver isn't and a bronze,
Speaker 4: How does that summary sit with you?
Speaker 2: It's pretty good, correct, I.
Speaker 1: Guess yeah, if you said to anyone, And as a kid,
Speaker 1: it's always based on your expectations when you're a kid.
Speaker 1: I never thought i'd get to Olympic Games, let alone
Speaker 1: win a medal. You know, growing up, I was always
Speaker 1: a great relay swimmer. I managed to sum really fast
Speaker 1: in relays for some reason, but when it came to individuals,
Speaker 1: I was never the same.
Speaker 2: Athlete, and my relay splits were always.
Speaker 1: Better than my individuals because I just love being part
Speaker 1: of a team. And if I said to myself I
Speaker 1: was going to be a world record holder and a
Speaker 1: favorite and anything going into an Olympics, you know, I
Speaker 1: would have been so happy. But yeah, when you're in
Speaker 1: that moment and you're already the fastest in the world
Speaker 1: and you miss out on something, it's hard not to
Speaker 1: have that thing. But I guess now, I guess now.
Speaker 1: I don't really think about it too often. I'm pretty
Speaker 1: busy with what I do. I'm not trying to forget
Speaker 1: about it. But at the same time, I don't want
Speaker 1: it to be the only thing that people remember me
Speaker 1: for anymore. So I'm not holding onto that like. I
Speaker 1: don't want it to be, oh, that's Aim of the
Speaker 1: you know, the Olympic swimmer. I'd be quite happy with
Speaker 1: my whole family just going, oh, that's Aim and you
Speaker 1: know he's he's a great family man, he's a great son,
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm doing well in life, and that's
Speaker 1: that's all I care about.
Speaker 2: Now. I think part of me probably.
Speaker 1: Trying to suppress that side of it because I was
Speaker 1: disappointed with the disappointed.
Speaker 2: It's probably the wrong word now, but.
Speaker 4: It sounds to me like you're almost you're talking about
Speaker 4: it and you're almost trying to convince yourself in this
Speaker 4: spot right now as well, a little bit.
Speaker 1: Like now, I think my mentality has changed the last year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it took me a long time to be
Speaker 1: okay with it. I think subliminally I probably was pushing
Speaker 1: myself a lot harder in the business world to try
Speaker 1: and prove myself and to try and prove that I
Speaker 1: didn't fail at something. But now the last year I've
Speaker 1: really come to terms with what that sport was and
Speaker 1: where I'm at. And I guess kids probably changed it
Speaker 1: for me. I think, yeah, you know, it's a cliche,
Speaker 1: but it has so I think I'm trying to phrase
Speaker 1: it the right way.
Speaker 2: I think I haven't. In my head.
Speaker 1: I've come to terms with it, but I don't think
Speaker 1: i've said it out loud.
Speaker 2: As to.
Speaker 1: I don't know how to put into words. I suppose, so, yeah.
Speaker 4: You said that that impacted you for the next couple
Speaker 4: of years. How did it impact you?
Speaker 1: I just I wasn't as driven when I moved to Sydney.
Speaker 1: I i didn't get as injured in Sydney, so I
Speaker 1: did work a lot harder. I was working harder and
Speaker 1: I got overtrained, and I just I just wasn't the
Speaker 1: same person, Like I wasn't as driven I was. I
Speaker 1: was doing the one percenters, but I you know, when
Speaker 1: you're in Perth, and Perth is a different place to
Speaker 1: Sydney as well. Sydney's Sydney's pretty crazy compared to old
Speaker 1: sleepy Perth. You know, there's there's so many more events
Speaker 1: that go on, and obviously when you when I moved
Speaker 1: to Sydney, I was a bit more well known, so
Speaker 1: I was getting invited to GQ Awards and all that
Speaker 1: stuff that in Perth just doesn't happen. So there's a
Speaker 1: lot more distractions and I probably drank a lot more
Speaker 1: on weekends THO would when I was in Perth. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I just wasn't as dedicated. I guess I wasn't as
Speaker 1: driven to being the best.
Speaker 2: Lost motivation, but I was still in mentality of wanting
Speaker 2: to be the best.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like you can't you can't have
Speaker 1: your cake and eat it too, And yeah, I just did,
Speaker 1: I just I just I think it was a missed
Speaker 1: opportunity that those four years between two thousand and eight
Speaker 1: and two tenty twelve and a bit of a blur
Speaker 1: of you know, there was some injuries, there was a
Speaker 1: lot of travel, It was a different mentality. It was
Speaker 1: a bigger bunch of you know, we had a Jeff Hugel,
Speaker 1: Andrew Lord of Stein had a Bood Andrew Bood Libby
Speaker 1: trick at training with us. So we had a lot
Speaker 1: of fun. We traveled a lot, but the results weren't
Speaker 1: there for me. I had some good relay wins in
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, the World Champs in twenty eleven that were great,
Speaker 1: but nothing really great individual of note, which I guess
Speaker 1: is disappointing. I had the opportunity to really leap frog
Speaker 1: and get better and better, and I just didn't take
Speaker 1: the chance. I think I was. I think mentally, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't think I ever wanted to be
Speaker 1: that famous, and I didn't deal with it that well.
Speaker 1: And I think I sort of, yeah, I never want to.
Speaker 1: I remember, Yeah, I just never wanted to, never thought
Speaker 1: I would be, and never I've never even though I'm
Speaker 1: I guess I've dealt with a media side relatively well
Speaker 1: and I'm comfortable in front of the media. I'm actually
Speaker 1: quite a quiet person, and I think it comes across
Speaker 1: as roods times, like I'm in social situations. If I
Speaker 1: meet new people, I'm not as outgoing as I am now,
Speaker 1: I'm quite quiet, and I think people sometimes think that's rude,
Speaker 1: but I'm actually quite reserved and quite anxious and social
Speaker 1: situations the people I don't know, but media is different.
Speaker 1: I'm able to come out of my shell and say
Speaker 1: what I need to say because i know it's only
Speaker 1: for ten minutes and I'm back to being me.
Speaker 4: So because you were thrust into this, to the spotlight.
Speaker 1: At that point in time, Yeah, and you have to
Speaker 1: learn and pick it up really quick. You have to
Speaker 1: speak well and be able to get your point across
Speaker 1: without sending like a wanker.
Speaker 4: And you know, fine, do you ever feel misunderstood by
Speaker 4: the media? Were you ever annoyed?
Speaker 2: Or Oh no, the media never missed, never says the
Speaker 2: wrong thing and take something out of context, do they?
Speaker 1: So you know, there's obviously a few instances I had
Speaker 1: with alcohol that were you know, when you're assuming and
Speaker 1: you drink four times a year and you have an
Speaker 1: after party, have a few too many and someone knows
Speaker 1: who you are. There's certainly a few times I had
Speaker 1: a bit too much to drink and did some silly things,
Speaker 1: and you know that, I'll take that on the chin
Speaker 1: one hundred percent. But yeah, it's like my injuries. I
Speaker 1: just seemed to get myself into stupid situations by doing
Speaker 1: something that I didn't think was gonna hurt myself or
Speaker 1: you know, result in something like that, And yeah, you
Speaker 1: wake up next.
Speaker 2: Morning and go shit, you know.
Speaker 1: So, Yeah, Sydney was the missed opportunity, But I had
Speaker 1: a lot of fun and met some great people, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess I don't regret it, because again I think
Speaker 1: everything happens for a reason, and I don't regret not
Speaker 1: taking that chance because it wasn't where I was at mentally.
Speaker 2: I think I was pretty exhausted and flat after two
Speaker 2: thousand and eight.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, if I had my time again,
Speaker 1: would I do it differently? Maybe slightly, but not too
Speaker 1: much different?
Speaker 4: Is it too far to say you were grieving? Was
Speaker 4: a bit of grief not winning what you know, what
Speaker 4: you thought you would, not doing what you thought you would,
Speaker 4: because I'd imagine you'd imagine it over and over and
Speaker 4: over in the build up and you know, putting the
Speaker 4: positive vibes out there.
Speaker 1: And I think in the short term it was and it's
Speaker 1: a really putting it that way sounds pretty It sounds
Speaker 1: pretty bad grieving over something that's you know. But I
Speaker 1: was disappointed, and I was probably more embarrassed, even though
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be embarrassed like you know, but again that's
Speaker 1: you know, the meta expectation. I take that as embarrassment,
Speaker 1: not personally. It was more pissed off at myself, embarrassed
Speaker 1: that I could have got there. Yeah, certainly that year,
Speaker 1: I went for a six weeks holiday with my best mate,
Speaker 1: you know, over in Europe and had a great time
Speaker 1: and came back and I was I think I put on.
Speaker 2: Like six killers in five weeks.
Speaker 1: I remember that it really hit home when I went
Speaker 1: bungee jumping and they right your weight on your wrist
Speaker 1: so that they know how much tension to put in
Speaker 1: the rope. And I started the holiday at seventy eight
Speaker 1: kilos and they wrote down eighty six and I was like, oh.
Speaker 1: And I met my mate in Amsterdam after four weeks,
Speaker 1: and he'd been in Europe he'd been living in London
Speaker 1: and he saw me in this second, Oh, mate, you've
Speaker 1: been in a good paddock. And that's when I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I've probably had a little bit too much to eat.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess grieving is not the right word.
Speaker 1: I was disappointed and probably embarrassed more than anything which
Speaker 1: turns into not grief, but that sort of mentality of
Speaker 1: of just go, oh, well, I muzz well, have a
Speaker 1: few more drinks, enjoy myself. And I do remember Thorpe,
Speaker 1: You're ringing me up after that one hundred, and he goes, mate,
Speaker 1: you've got to be the first person to break forty
Speaker 1: seven seconds. And I should have said, yeah, you're right,
Speaker 1: and you know, got myself into that headspace, and I
Speaker 1: just didn't. I just said I've deserved a break, and
Speaker 1: I said I just dropped the ball and just enjoyed myself.
Speaker 1: And it was probably a bit of a probably like that.
Speaker 1: That build up was pretty intense, and I probably wasn't
Speaker 1: ready for that build up and the ramifications emotionally of
Speaker 1: to dealing with disappointment, and I probably just did drop
Speaker 1: the bundle and go yep, I just need to relax,
Speaker 1: and I relax too, much never got back into that
Speaker 1: headspace of wanting to be the best.
Speaker 4: Tell me about these dreams, because dreams fascinate me. I
Speaker 4: constantly have dreams that relate to work and all that
Speaker 4: sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: What are your dreams about that?
Speaker 4: And they ask you a question, I'm interested about this,
Speaker 4: you dare turn it off?
Speaker 2: Ordinarily speaking, what do you dream about? What sort of
Speaker 2: dreams would you have?
Speaker 1: Just that I'm training and I'm making a comeback and
Speaker 1: that I'm going to summer fifty three. And you know
Speaker 1: when you wake up and need you have those dreams
Speaker 1: where you wake up and you won the lotter or
Speaker 1: something and you wake up thinking you've got money.
Speaker 4: I haven't had those. Mind tend to be more negative.
Speaker 1: I remember when I'm younger, like you dream that you've
Speaker 1: won load and your wake up like, oh, I've got money.
Speaker 1: I'm going to buy a boat or something, and then
Speaker 1: you slowly wake up and go shit and you realize
Speaker 1: it's dream. It's a similar thing to that. I dream
Speaker 1: that I'm making a comeback and I'm committed to doing it,
Speaker 1: and I wake up like, oh, you know, going to
Speaker 1: make a comeback for the fifty three, And then you go, oh, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not.
Speaker 2: They got.
Speaker 1: But I think I think part of me always felt
Speaker 1: like I could do the fifty again, but I really
Speaker 1: don't want to. You know, it's going to be a
Speaker 1: great Olympics, so I will. I do wish I could
Speaker 1: be there competing, but that's the only thing I think
Speaker 1: I dream about is competing. I love racing and winning
Speaker 1: and putting it all on the line. That's the only
Speaker 1: thing I miss.
Speaker 4: For people who are competing in those Olympics, how do
Speaker 4: you want the public to treat them?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think the hard thing about assuming is that every
Speaker 1: four years people gives a shit.
Speaker 2: It's kind of kind of interesting, like they still follow.
Speaker 1: The results in the World Champs and comm Games. Comm
Speaker 1: Games is kind of an easy one because the UK
Speaker 1: and South Africa, there's not If the US was in
Speaker 1: the Common Games, it would be similar Olympics, Like we
Speaker 1: wouldn't win as many goals.
Speaker 2: That's just the reality of it.
Speaker 1: They've got such a strong team. So it is a
Speaker 1: funny one, Like it's understandable there's no sponsorship money assumming
Speaker 1: because we've been on the TV every week, you know,
Speaker 1: like AFL and other other sports.
Speaker 2: That's reality. Of it.
Speaker 1: That's the same with other sports and athletics. We've got
Speaker 1: some of the best athletes in the world and pole
Speaker 1: vault and track sprinting and long jump, and we're just
Speaker 1: not the public eye and that's fine with us. We've
Speaker 1: never had an issue with it. But all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: every four years, you just get this massive interest in
Speaker 1: what we do because where some of the highest medal
Speaker 1: winners in the Olympics, and it comes and goes so
Speaker 1: quickly you've got to almost rev yourself up to be
Speaker 1: ready for it, and then you're back into another three
Speaker 1: years of once a year. And that's just the reality
Speaker 1: of US sport. It's that you've got one major meat
Speaker 1: every year. It's not twenty two meets every year. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a hard one for young kids, especially for your
Speaker 1: first Olympics. It's I remember Todd Pearson having a chat
Speaker 1: before the first Olympics, just going and you walk into
Speaker 1: the pool for the first day and half of.
Speaker 2: The stands as media.
Speaker 1: There's fifty cameras from different things around the world, and
Speaker 1: it's unlike anything you're ready for, like a national championships
Speaker 1: is stressful, but when you walk into that it's it's
Speaker 1: next level, and it really is.
Speaker 2: So I guess you like, especially.
Speaker 1: Now that I'm a little bit older, you look at
Speaker 1: the team now, and when I was twenty three twenty four,
Speaker 1: I thought I was old, but you are young, and
Speaker 1: these kids that are on the team are twenty five
Speaker 1: and under and they're competing at the world's bigger stage
Speaker 1: and they've got all this pressure on them, and they
Speaker 1: are they are still kids, you know, and they are
Speaker 1: mature for their age, certainly for getting you know, all
Speaker 1: the media training they have, but they aren't just kids
Speaker 1: as well. So it's they're doing some pretty amazing stuff.
Speaker 1: And I guess yeah, just like for me, it's we
Speaker 1: always knew the public supporters. So I guess it's a
Speaker 1: mix of the media and public perception. Is that the
Speaker 1: public's perception of sports stars are what the media report on.
Speaker 1: They don't look at a race and go, oh, well,
Speaker 1: he probably had a bad lead up and this and that,
Speaker 1: and you know, this person's doing a really good race
Speaker 1: and they still did a PB. They don't see that.
Speaker 1: They see what the media right. So we're certainly at
Speaker 1: the mercy of what the public think of us by
Speaker 1: what the media right. So I guess it's hard to
Speaker 1: say that the public make your own opinions of stuff,
Speaker 1: because unless you're a sports fanatic and you know the
Speaker 1: whole story, you don't know. So I guess it's for me.
Speaker 1: The Olympics is just a celebration of exactly what you
Speaker 1: were saying to me before this podcast, of it's people
Speaker 1: getting to Olympic Games that shouldn't be there that are
Speaker 1: having a great time, And sometimes I think that message
Speaker 1: gets lost of just you should be there to enjoy it.
Speaker 1: Like you've trained so hard, any result is a good result,
Speaker 1: even though it's hard to see as an Olympic athlete,
Speaker 1: if you have a bad race, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: just enjoy watching it. These guys have trained so hard
Speaker 1: to be there, and it doesn't matter what you expect
Speaker 1: them to do. All that matters is what they expect
Speaker 1: and their results. If they're happy with their race, we
Speaker 1: should be happy with them. If they're so disappointed, we
Speaker 1: should feel that pain and feel the disappointment because there's
Speaker 1: so much work that goes into it. We shouldn't punish
Speaker 1: them for having a bad race and not winning a
Speaker 1: gold or a silver, or not performing to our expectations
Speaker 1: because our expectations don't matter.
Speaker 4: When you reflect on your career, all the injuries, the achievements,
Speaker 4: the disappointments, how do you summarize it, and how do
Speaker 4: you summarize yourself?
Speaker 2: Ah, that's pretty deep.
Speaker 1: I guess I summarize it as training for real life.
Speaker 1: I think that's what sport is in a way, like
Speaker 1: it teaches your time management, It teaches you how to
Speaker 1: get over obstacles, teaches it to work in a team,
Speaker 1: and when you get into real life, if you're working
Speaker 1: in a corporation or if you're on a business, that's
Speaker 1: what you have to do. Skills that I learned along
Speaker 1: the way that I could transition into to real life.
Speaker 1: I think the challenge now is dulling down that killer
Speaker 1: mentality and just enjoying life and finding the joys in
Speaker 1: life rather than finding ways.
Speaker 2: To improve it.
Speaker 4: Thanks for your time today. I think it's important, especially
Speaker 4: in Olympic year, people to remember what athletes go through
Speaker 4: and that they are human and that probably the public's
Speaker 4: never going to beat you up as much as what
Speaker 4: you've you've done in your own mind.
Speaker 2: No, you beat yourself up more than the public, do well.
Speaker 4: I appreciate your time and hopefully people hear it and
Speaker 4: you know, see things and maybe a bit of a
Speaker 4: different light heading into Tokyo.
Speaker 2: My pleasure and I hope everyone seems well and performs
Speaker 2: well the whole team.
Speaker 3: Time.
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking. If
Speaker 4: you want to get in touch, you can follow on
Speaker 4: Instagram ordinarily Underscore Speaking. And if you enjoyed the podcast,
Speaker 4: please make sure you hit subscribe and tell your mates thanks.
Speaker 3: From you right a badas tell me that you want me.
Speaker 3: There's nothing like you want me God, because I'm competrating
Speaker 3: the fire and with the just me like you wanna
Speaker 3: me tho