1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:01,800 Speaker 1: Join the conversation with k Wolf. 2 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 2: You are our eyes and ears in the territory mix 3 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:06,439 Speaker 2: one oh four point nine. 4 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 3: And quite a few of you are joining the conversation 5 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 3: this morning. If you do want to send us a message, 6 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 3: you most certainly can zero four one, eight nine five 7 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 3: seven three sixty nine. You can also give us a 8 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 3: call if you'd like eight nine four one one oh 9 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 3: four nine And I've got a message here It says 10 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 3: better changes inside two years. 11 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 2: Yo. 12 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 3: Why is a permit required? Do they need a permit 13 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 3: to travel to any territory areas? Territorians are territorians and 14 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 3: we're all Australians. Let's cut all the financial handouts to 15 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 3: the NLC and let's see how long they survive. What 16 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 3: a croc a cyclone in a teacup says this text. 17 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 3: I do want to point out though, that the NLC 18 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 3: is not receiving any kind of fees or anything for. 19 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: The registration process. 20 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 3: But Alan has messaged and said, hi, KT, in two 21 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 3: or four years they will have the stats and know 22 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 3: who to charge. A thin edge of the weird, he says, 23 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 3: how safe is data? Who will look at privacy etc. 24 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 3: They're selling as safety, but it's far more if they've 25 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 3: spent money on lawyers. There's more to this, reckons Allen. 26 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 3: And well let's get the other side of the fence, 27 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 3: because joining us on the line right now is David 28 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 3: Chiirrovolo ahead of Fat the Amateur Fishermen's Association here in 29 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 3: the Northern Territory. 30 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: Good morning David, Good morning Katie. And you'll be pleased 31 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: to hear that I'm not intending to growl and I'll 32 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 2: choose to articulate my thoughts this morning. 33 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: All right, sounds like a plan. Now, what was your 34 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: reaction to the announcement? 35 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 2: Well, look, I think we have a lot of concerns 36 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 2: around it, particularly as it has been announced, and we 37 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,199 Speaker 2: certainly have called upon the Territory government to do better 38 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: in this space, to lift their game and intervene to 39 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: make sure that we can have a much better solution 40 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: to what has been a very long running issue, dating back, 41 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: of course, back to two thousand and eight when traditional 42 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: owners were granted ownership exclusive ownership of intertitle zones and rivers, 43 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 2: and so many traditional owners, as Marion has said, have 44 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: generously shared and agreed to share their waters with all 45 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: Territorians from that day until today. We now have a 46 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: situation where place is like, and I'm certainly happy to 47 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 2: go into the detail. The Phinnis River is off limits 48 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 2: by and large, mostly off limits. Mini minis are off limits, 49 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 2: and effectively the permit system which they're calling a registration 50 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: doesn't actually cover any waters within a couple of hundred 51 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 2: kilometers of Darwin. 52 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 3: So all right, I am going to need a bit 53 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 3: more detail here because, as you know, I'm not somebody 54 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 3: who heads out fishing, and so I'm not really familiar 55 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 3: with some of these areas. 56 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: Obviously, Marian Scrimdaw was just on the show and. 57 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 3: Said that there are still areas of the Finnis which 58 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 3: are open to fishermen, and she said that negotiation is 59 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 3: still underway with traditional owners around the mini mini river systems. 60 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 1: So David, through it from your perspectives. 61 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I guess, of course, only talk from my 62 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 2: perspective and the perspective of all the recreational fishes that 63 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 2: I have the privilege of engaging with on a regular basis. 64 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: The Finnis River as described by Marion, And look, I 65 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: think we have to forgive Marion in terms of her 66 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: specific knowledge of details here. It is a big coastline, 67 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: and I guess, unlike myself who's been engaged in the 68 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 2: Finnis River a lot, she's got a lot of area 69 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: to look out for. But the first five kilometers of 70 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: the river itself is not Aboriginal land, and of course 71 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: couldn't be closed by traditional owners because it's not Aboriginal land. 72 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: From that point onwards, there has been a waiver in 73 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: place for the next eight kilometers of river, which is 74 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 2: the most productive and commonly fished areas in the Finnis River, 75 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: and then whole fifteen kilometers up the river there has 76 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: been that closure line that Marion referred to. What has 77 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 2: been not only put in the maps today but explained 78 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 2: to me directly by their principal legal officer and their 79 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: media officer on Friday, is that the consultations last week 80 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: with the traditional owners have led to that area previously 81 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 2: covered by waiver. That area five kilometers and another eight 82 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 2: kilometers onwards is now closed. So the area when people think, 83 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 2: you know, when I'm going to the Finis and I'm 84 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 2: going to go fishing in the Finnis, most of that 85 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: area is now closed for the first time. 86 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 3: So you're talking about around thirteen kilometers of the Finnis, 87 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 3: and what you're saying is that's the area that most 88 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 3: people utilize and that's no longer available. 89 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 2: I think it's really important to acknowledge from that sort 90 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: of fifteen kilometer mark onwards has been closed for a 91 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: number of years, more than five years, and that's been 92 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: at the request of traditional owners, certainly something that we respect, 93 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 2: in something that fishes have become accustomed to. What I 94 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: was told by the NLC staff on Friday that the 95 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: traditional owners in that lower section have decided that they 96 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: didn't want to sign up to access our guests basically 97 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: for no benefit. And that's what we're calling on the 98 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: territory government to do a better job of making sure 99 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 2: that really good offers can be put to traditional owners 100 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: to secure long term access. Now, if that's with a registration, 101 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: then so be it. That's up to traditional owners. We've 102 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: previously advocated for a permit free system and that's certainly 103 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 2: what we'd prefer. But if tos are saying that they 104 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: need to have a registration, we're saying needs to be 105 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: underpinned by benefits provided by the traditional by the territory 106 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 2: government that flow to traditional owners in exchange for that 107 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 2: access and the territory government needs to take an interest 108 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 2: in the permit system. There needs to be dispute resolution 109 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 2: mechanisms in that system, and there needs to be certainty 110 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 2: for businesses and for recreational fishes. And look, I want 111 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: to highlight you had somebody talk about data security. Now, 112 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 2: one of the things I raised with the NLC and 113 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: I asked for prior to the launch. Here was a 114 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 2: copy of the privacy policy. I was very concerned to 115 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 2: make sure that any data being provided would be stored 116 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: securely and only access for the right purposes, you know. 117 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 2: Lo and behold, we hear that I've applied for a permit, 118 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 2: and that's information that's come from the permit team and 119 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: supplied and then revealed on the media. And that is true. 120 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 2: It was a simple process. It doesn't apply to any 121 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 2: of the waters that I intend to fish anytime soon. 122 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 2: But the fact that that information has been used improperly, 123 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 2: I think really highlights the concern that a lot of 124 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 2: people will have and why the government needs to take 125 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 2: an interest in this process, a much more active interest 126 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 2: than it has, because, like Marion, I want us to 127 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: work together and come to the best possible solution. But 128 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: ever since that deal was signed before the election last year, 129 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: in my view and in the view of most fishes, 130 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 2: things have not got better, They've got worse. 131 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 3: So, David, by the sounds of thing, did you actually 132 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: feel as though the Northern Territory government has dropped the 133 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 3: ball here? Oh? 134 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: Look, absolutely, at the end of the day, the Lord 135 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 2: of Lamb Council has to look after its constituents and 136 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: the law is really clear that traditional owners have the 137 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 2: right to decide. Now. Traditional owners have been sharing their 138 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 2: waters for twelve years in most places or in other 139 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: areas have already agreed to long term access deals. Since 140 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, no new long term access deals have been assigned. 141 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 2: And also we have a situation where another agreement has 142 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: been entered into that really tends to focus a lot 143 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: more on commercial fishing and kicks the discussions around long 144 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 2: term access agreements with funds to traditional owners. Increased amounts 145 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: of ranges on the water infrastructure that traditional owners and 146 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 2: rangers need being kicked down the road and we want 147 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 2: to see that focus immediately concurrently with other developments, and 148 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: we've called upon the Chief Minister and the Territory government 149 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: to act on this immediately. They've got to act for 150 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: all territories. We don't want division in our community when 151 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 2: it can be avoided, and I think if we've got 152 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 2: teos who want to share their country, it can be avoided. 153 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 3: Now, dovid, what impact is this going to have on 154 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 3: recreational fishing in the Northern Territory as it currently stands. 155 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: Well, everyone's really excited for a great runoff. If you 156 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: are paying attention around the election, and if you're paying 157 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 2: attention in December, you'd have an expectation that there was 158 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 2: going to be continued access until the end of twenty 159 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 2: twenty two. If you've booked accommodation down at Dundee from 160 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: today onwards and we're planning to go and fish the 161 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 2: coastal creeks in fog Bay, or if you're planning to 162 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 2: go and fish in the Finnis River, then you won't 163 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: be able to do that. If you've got family and 164 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 2: friends of a book flight to come up here and 165 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 2: go fishing with you there, you won't be able to 166 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: do that. So it will have an impact. We wrote 167 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 2: to the NLC. We wrote to Marian last week. We 168 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 2: asked her to implement a waiver for recreational fishes until 169 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 2: the middle of the year to allow all consultations to 170 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: conclude and to allow the government to put better deals 171 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: on the table. Clearly that's been rejected because we have 172 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 2: permits today and so there will be a lot of 173 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 2: people and a lot of businesses affected by this. 174 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: Goodness, May David. 175 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 3: Look, I think it's going to be really an interesting 176 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 3: time for us on air this morning, hearing from all 177 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 3: the Northern territories fishermen and look, you know, like I 178 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 3: said right from the outset, I. 179 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: Obviously don't go out fishing. 180 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 3: I don't have a huge amount of knowledge on this, 181 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 3: but after speaking to you, following on from that discussion 182 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 3: with Marian Scrimdaw, it does sound as though with some 183 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 3: of these locations it's going to have a much bigger 184 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 3: impact than what we may have initially thought. 185 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 2: Look, it's certainly more than a storm in the teacup. 186 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 2: But one of the things that I want to urge 187 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: is that this is about making sure that we can 188 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 2: have a more enduring and more harmonious future, making sure 189 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: that the government does everything that it absolutely can, and 190 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 2: I want to call upon all recreational fishes to remain 191 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 2: as respectful as they possibly can, because we are in 192 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 2: a situation where we want to negotiate with traditional owners. 193 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 2: We want the government to negotiate with traditional owners for access, 194 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 2: and it's very important that it is a respectful conversation. 195 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 2: I have faith that we can achieve better if we 196 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 2: actually work and listen together, and I hope that's what's 197 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: going to happen, starting with the territory government listening to 198 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 2: what we're saying right now. 199 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: I think you hit the nail on the head there. 200 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 3: I think that if this becomes nasty, it's not going 201 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 3: to be a good thing for either side of this argument. 202 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 3: So we've got to try to keep things as respectful 203 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 3: as possible and, as you've said, work together to try 204 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 3: and get a better outcome if that's what's required. David 205 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 3: gi Rivolo, it is always good to talk to you, mate. 206 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 3: I reckon we could be talking again later in the week. 207 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: Thanks Katie, good on you, Thank you.