1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,720
Speaker 1: And yesterday in Parliament, the Independent Member for Johnston, Justine Davis,

2
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:07,920
Speaker 1: presented a letter signed by a number of frontline workers

3
00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:12,600
Speaker 1: opposed to the government's mandatory sentencing for assaults. The letter,

4
00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:17,080
Speaker 1: signed by mostly health professionals and teachers, says that they

5
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,560
Speaker 1: deserve to feel safe at work and ought to be

6
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,240
Speaker 1: consulted about how best to achieve that. It goes on

7
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,480
Speaker 1: to say that they don't feel safe under the new

8
00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,040
Speaker 1: laws and they feel that they conflict with ethics in

9
00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,360
Speaker 1: their professions. Now joining me on the show is the

10
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,879
Speaker 1: Independent Member for Johnston, Justine Davis. Good morning to you.

11
00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:38,040
Speaker 2: Hey, Katie, how are you going?

12
00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, really good, Thank you for your time this morning. Now, Justine,

13
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,519
Speaker 1: why are these frontline workers opposed to the mandatory sentencing

14
00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:46,600
Speaker 1: which was introduced.

15
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,720
Speaker 2: I think he just outlined it really well. First of all,

16
00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,199
Speaker 2: they weren't consulting in the development of the law and

17
00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:54,840
Speaker 2: they're the people who are going to be it's going

18
00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,120
Speaker 2: to be impacting on most of all. Secondly, what they

19
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,000
Speaker 2: say is that actually puts them in a really difficult

20
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 2: called ethical position and they feel like it makes them

21
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,200
Speaker 2: less safe because they feel like they can no longer

22
00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 2: report people to the police, because these are people who

23
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:14,120
Speaker 2: should not be going to prison, their people who have complex,

24
00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:19,280
Speaker 2: vulnerable health needs and there but if they do report them,

25
00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,759
Speaker 2: the judge will have no choice but to sentence them.

26
00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,959
Speaker 2: So they're caught in a bind. So they're saying this,

27
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,240
Speaker 2: this is not working for us. We all know frontline workers,

28
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,360
Speaker 2: you know, do so much for all of us every

29
00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,199
Speaker 2: single day and every single night. They deserve to feel

30
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,280
Speaker 2: safe and we should be listening to them.

31
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,080
Speaker 1: Justine, I understand what you know, those health stuff and

32
00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,319
Speaker 1: others are saying, But what do you say to the

33
00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,720
Speaker 1: police officers and the police union that really pushed for this.

34
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,600
Speaker 1: You know, they are facing almost daily assaults on them.

35
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,840
Speaker 1: Last week, I think it was we're in a situation,

36
00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:55,960
Speaker 1: or it maybe in the week before in Alice Springs

37
00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,640
Speaker 1: where a police officer had somebody trying to drive at

38
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,840
Speaker 1: them in a car. What do you say to those

39
00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,200
Speaker 1: frontline workers.

40
00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's shocking. I think it should not

41
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 2: be happening. I think we absolutely need to do everything

42
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 2: we can to address that and stop it happening. But

43
00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,280
Speaker 2: the evidence is very clear that mandatory sentencing will not

44
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:21,240
Speaker 2: do that. The government's own report says the law commissioned

45
00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,240
Speaker 2: report says Managery CENTERCING does not do that. It's very

46
00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,960
Speaker 2: clear there's no evidence, if I'm quoting from that, there

47
00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 2: is no evidence whatsoever to support the premise that Managery

48
00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,079
Speaker 2: CENTERCING will act as a deterrent and reduce crime.

49
00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,120
Speaker 1: So you reckon just for our listeners, because there's already

50
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,320
Speaker 1: people messaging in about this. What do you think should happen?

51
00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,280
Speaker 1: For example, you know, what do you think the punishment

52
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,440
Speaker 1: or the consequence to somebody should be if they drive

53
00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:49,920
Speaker 1: a vehicle at a police officer.

54
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,320
Speaker 2: Well, I think they should face obviously the full force

55
00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,080
Speaker 2: of the law. But I think what we need to

56
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,520
Speaker 2: be looking at, and the theop government has been saying

57
00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,560
Speaker 2: is we need to look at what the drivers are drivers,

58
00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 2: So that's a bad pun when you talk about a car,

59
00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,400
Speaker 2: but we need to look at look at what it

60
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,600
Speaker 2: is that's causing those things to happen, and dress them

61
00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,880
Speaker 2: and stop them before they're happening. That's where we need

62
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,040
Speaker 2: to be investing, or we're just going to be seeing

63
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,359
Speaker 2: to get worse and worse and worse. We've had there's

64
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,800
Speaker 2: six hundred more people in prison at the moment, and

65
00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 2: the prison system is under such crisis. We can't keep

66
00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,840
Speaker 2: just shoving people in there and expecting that that's going

67
00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,960
Speaker 2: to create change and give us a safer community. So

68
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,919
Speaker 2: we need to be we need to be in answer

69
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,080
Speaker 2: to in answer to your question, we need to be

70
00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,080
Speaker 2: investing in what's going to actually make people safe, and

71
00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,560
Speaker 2: that's in addressing what the causes of these crimes are.

72
00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:40,560
Speaker 1: So justine if look, people are going to be really

73
00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 1: fired up about this. So I'm trying to think of

74
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,240
Speaker 1: the best way to ask it. But you know, if

75
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,240
Speaker 1: somebody is put in an incredibly dangerous situation, the one

76
00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,320
Speaker 1: that always springs to mind for me is the police.

77
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,440
Speaker 1: And I understand that there are a lot of other

78
00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,640
Speaker 1: frontline workers and I'll go more into that in the moment,

79
00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,400
Speaker 1: but with our police, for example, some of the saults

80
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,240
Speaker 1: we are seeing against them are pretty horrendous, you know,

81
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,840
Speaker 1: like the example that I gave obviously of that vehicle

82
00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,280
Speaker 1: being driven at somebody. We're in a situation in Alice

83
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,760
Speaker 1: Springs towards the end of last year where two well

84
00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,000
Speaker 1: actually there was a group of police officers who were

85
00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,240
Speaker 1: off duty walking home, so a little bit of a

86
00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,600
Speaker 1: different scenario, but you know, one of those young female

87
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:26,400
Speaker 1: officers assaulted really quite badly. It is happening like it's

88
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:31,279
Speaker 1: happening very often. So in terms of the investment, in

89
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,120
Speaker 1: terms of stopping that before it happens, like, what do

90
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,720
Speaker 1: we do a program? What are you suggesting?

91
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:40,880
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, there are lots of things we can

92
00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,560
Speaker 2: do before it happens. The other thing I just want

93
00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,360
Speaker 2: to say is that the courts, it's not like these

94
00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,720
Speaker 2: people are just walking for you at the moment. The

95
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,359
Speaker 2: judges make a decision about what the best sentence is,

96
00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,599
Speaker 2: what their appropriate sentence is going to be for someone.

97
00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,640
Speaker 2: And what mandatory centerces does is it takes that away

98
00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 2: from the judges. It's like people in parliament, people like

99
00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,560
Speaker 2: me who do not have training to be making this decision.

100
00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,200
Speaker 2: We're saying this is how you need to sentence someone,

101
00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,920
Speaker 2: rather than judges who have years and years of training

102
00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,680
Speaker 2: and experience in making in making that decision. So the

103
00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,680
Speaker 2: argument against the argument that the frontline workers are making

104
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,480
Speaker 2: is not that people know people should go to prison.

105
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,760
Speaker 2: It's not that people shouldn't face consequences and be accountable

106
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,359
Speaker 2: for what's happened. It's that mandatory sentencing will not achieve

107
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:30,800
Speaker 2: what this bill was designed to achieve, and they give

108
00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:35,600
Speaker 2: examples of people, I mean who you know, maybe for example,

109
00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,720
Speaker 2: not able to because of a psychiatric situation, may not

110
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,160
Speaker 2: be in control of the situation what they're doing. They

111
00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,840
Speaker 2: will have to go to prison. And it's not going

112
00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,560
Speaker 2: to address what happened. It's not going to make people safer,

113
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,720
Speaker 2: and it's not going to make the frontline workers any safer.

114
00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,000
Speaker 1: Justine, how many people have signed that letter?

115
00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's one hundred and seventy and as you said,

116
00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:02,080
Speaker 2: it's a very wide group of people. So doctors, social workers,

117
00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 2: I'm just looking at the listen now, nurses, to get therapists, psychiatrists,

118
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:14,120
Speaker 2: mental health clinicians, pediatricians, teachers, I said, original health worker.

119
00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,240
Speaker 2: Let yet, so it's a lot a long list. I

120
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:17,400
Speaker 2: know you've got a copy of it there.

121
00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, see as well, and I will read that out

122
00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,919
Speaker 1: for our listeners throughout the morning. Have you spoken to

123
00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,680
Speaker 1: the police as well and do your plan to Yeah?

124
00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,480
Speaker 2: Look, I frequently talked to the police, and I have

125
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,800
Speaker 2: talked to many police who've contacted me with a wide

126
00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,279
Speaker 2: range of concerns. And you know, I want to also say,

127
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,800
Speaker 2: just like frontline work, there's police are doing an incredibly

128
00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,080
Speaker 2: tough job on behalf of all of us, and you

129
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:43,960
Speaker 2: know we need to do what we can to support

130
00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:45,520
Speaker 2: them to be safe as well.

131
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,919
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I guess for me, I've been on this

132
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,800
Speaker 1: show for quite a long period of time, and they

133
00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,960
Speaker 1: were literally screaming for help. You know, they were saying,

134
00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,880
Speaker 1: we cannot continue on the way that we are. We

135
00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:01,520
Speaker 1: are in dangerous situations every single day.

136
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:07,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and no argue. I have no argument with that, Katie.

137
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,000
Speaker 2: I don't think that's what this is about. I don't

138
00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,480
Speaker 2: think we're saying that we need to put police or

139
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,920
Speaker 2: anyone who's working on the front line in any more danger.

140
00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,160
Speaker 2: I think we need to keep them safe, and I

141
00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,360
Speaker 2: think we need to make sure that people are accountable

142
00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,040
Speaker 2: for their actions and then we do something to address

143
00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,040
Speaker 2: it and make sure that it doesn't happen again.

144
00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,840
Speaker 1: All right, Justine, I want to ask you about a

145
00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,720
Speaker 1: emotion that you had planned, as I understand it, to

146
00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:35,160
Speaker 1: table yesterday in Parliament around the Indigenous Employment provisional some

147
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,000
Speaker 1: fraud scandal. Did that happen yesterday or did it get

148
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 1: pushed back?

149
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,520
Speaker 2: It didn't happen. So for people who a new deparliament,

150
00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,760
Speaker 2: like I am. The way it works is that there's

151
00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,680
Speaker 2: four hours every week that non government members can bring

152
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,920
Speaker 2: things to the floor, So that's both the Opposition and

153
00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 2: the cross Bench on Wednesday afternoons and emotions that we

154
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:58,480
Speaker 2: put up on a list and we get to them

155
00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,600
Speaker 2: as we get to them. You didn't get to that motion, yes, Safin,

156
00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,440
Speaker 2: I thought we would, but we didn't. It will come

157
00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,560
Speaker 2: up in the next sitting of Parliament. And for people

158
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,080
Speaker 2: who don't know what that's about. The Indigenous Employment Provisional

159
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,400
Speaker 2: some with a scheme set up to support Aboriginal people

160
00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:19,600
Speaker 2: in the working in the construction industry we set out

161
00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:24,520
Speaker 2: by the Coop implement by by Labor closed down because

162
00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,120
Speaker 2: there were allegations of extremely significant fraud investigated by the

163
00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,079
Speaker 2: Order to General. What we have heard is that there's

164
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,720
Speaker 2: at least sixty million dollars that has been basically stolen

165
00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:41,000
Speaker 2: from that scheme by private enterprise, money that should have

166
00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,360
Speaker 2: been going to original people, money that belongs to us

167
00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,080
Speaker 2: as taxpayers. So I've put up a motion saying we

168
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,679
Speaker 2: need to actually investigate this, we need to find out

169
00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,559
Speaker 2: what's happened and we need to get that money back

170
00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,720
Speaker 2: for antique, for our anti taxpayers.

171
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,840
Speaker 1: So Justin, has it been pushed now? So next parliamentary

172
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,520
Speaker 1: sittings do you reckon it'll get up? What do you

173
00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:58,199
Speaker 1: think will happen?

174
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,360
Speaker 2: Well, I can't see any reason why people shouldn't support it.

175
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,880
Speaker 2: It's just like, actually, this is this is this is

176
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:06,640
Speaker 2: our money. We need to be looking at what happened

177
00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,240
Speaker 2: with it. So there's no My hope is that they

178
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,280
Speaker 2: support it. There's time, you know, for the government to

179
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,120
Speaker 2: have a look at it now and see whether or

180
00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,840
Speaker 2: not it's something that they want to support. But I'd

181
00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:21,480
Speaker 2: be curious if anyone voted against emotion that's aimed at,

182
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,880
Speaker 2: you know, a scrutiny accountability and getting back money that

183
00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:26,600
Speaker 2: actually belongs to all of us.

184
00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,280
Speaker 1: Well, Justine, I always appreciate your time. What else is

185
00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,360
Speaker 1: on the agenda today? Anything I should know about?

186
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:37,360
Speaker 2: Big Day today? There's an energy statement from Minister Maine

187
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:42,240
Speaker 2: this morning. We're voting on a couple of bills. One

188
00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,240
Speaker 2: defamation bill to bring our laws in line with the

189
00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:50,199
Speaker 2: rest of Australia. A bill a police a bill to

190
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:54,880
Speaker 2: change some of the sorry police's right to enter property.

191
00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 2: There's going to be what's called a matter of public

192
00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,040
Speaker 2: importance on public education. So there's going to be a

193
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:03,840
Speaker 2: lot's happening, probably going to be a long night again.

194
00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,319
Speaker 1: It will be a busy one, no doubt about it. Justine,

195
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,760
Speaker 1: I always appreciate your time. Thank you very much for

196
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,200
Speaker 1: joining us on the show this morning.

197
00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:12,520
Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, I have a great Dame you too.

198
00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:13,120
Speaker 1: Thank you