Speaker 1: Ordinarily Speaking, carefree on the outside character, but I was
Speaker 1: living two lives, felt like I was a fraud on
Speaker 1: the inside. I was really struggling, and I was at
Speaker 1: a point where I was at my wits ends with
Speaker 1: my football in my life at the time.
Speaker 2: Tim, Hello, and welcome to Ordinarily Speaking, a brand new
Speaker 2: sports podcast that celebrates resilience and tells the human stories
Speaker 2: behind the athletes you know from AFAR. My name is
Speaker 2: Narrowly Meadows, and my guest today is a man by
Speaker 2: the name of Adam Challaw. He is an AFL star
Speaker 2: playing for the Collingwood Football Club, but it has taken
Speaker 2: him so many years to work out his footy does
Speaker 2: not define him. Now. This chat covers some pretty heavy topics,
Speaker 2: so if you're a parent, you might want to listen
Speaker 2: to it before your kids do. And if you are struggling,
Speaker 2: please ask for help. Lifeline dot org, dot au and
Speaker 2: beyond Blue just a couple of places that you can go.
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed the chat. Oh, thanks so much
Speaker 2: for spending some time with me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: I've always found you a really interesting person to interview
Speaker 2: because as a journalist, you know, often when you ask
Speaker 2: people hard questions, they get defensive. That's, you know, human
Speaker 2: nature to do that. Whereas with you, over the years,
Speaker 2: every time I've interviewed you, I almost feel like I
Speaker 2: have to talk you back because you're so damn hard
Speaker 2: on yourself. Why is it so?
Speaker 1: I think Bucks can vouch for that because a lot
Speaker 1: of the times when we're talking about football, I tend
Speaker 1: to give away too much with the game plan whatnot.
Speaker 1: But no, I guess I'm pretty open, pretty honest with everything.
Speaker 1: I know. The last twelve months of have been. Wow,
Speaker 1: it's been interesting, to say the least, because firstly with
Speaker 1: that documentary that come out on the twenty eighteen season
Speaker 1: and obviously opened up a little bit about my own
Speaker 1: battles and yeah, a little bit that I've gone through
Speaker 1: and you know, we'll probably always go through because you can't,
Speaker 1: you know, you sort of I feel like you're sort
Speaker 1: of born with that. I mean, you can develop anxiety
Speaker 1: and worry and stress and whatever it is over time,
Speaker 1: but I think, you know, with might bring and my
Speaker 1: experiences in life, I was sort of, yeah, I was
Speaker 1: sort of born into that, and yeah, I still have
Speaker 1: my moments and whatnot, But I've well and truly found
Speaker 1: a good balance in my life now with my support
Speaker 1: staff and the people around me, the footy club, my partner, Kimmy,
Speaker 1: just everyone, just things that I've put into place that
Speaker 1: help me. And like I said, there's no way, there's
Speaker 1: no way with that support with with Kimmy, without MAXI
Speaker 1: without Bucks, without Jackie.
Speaker 2: Bucks is obviously the coach. Max is at the club
Speaker 2: helping out Yes, Yes, and.
Speaker 1: Yours Jackie, who started as my psych but is now
Speaker 1: one of my closest friends. She's she's almost like a
Speaker 1: big sister to me. And yeah, just that just the love,
Speaker 1: support to help, the care I can keep going with
Speaker 1: words that they've showed me and given me and helped
Speaker 1: this that to this day is something I've just been
Speaker 1: incredible grateful for for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2: Born into anxiety, What does that mean?
Speaker 1: I think with my upbringing, so with it, I've always
Speaker 1: had it. I've always had it because of you know
Speaker 1: how I was not raised because my mom, my mum
Speaker 1: was a single mum. My stepdad he's been around since
Speaker 1: I've was born pretty much. So my dad, my biological
Speaker 1: dad who left my mom when my mom was Oh.
Speaker 1: I think she hadn't given birth yet or whatever it was,
Speaker 1: and so I don't know my biological dad and what's
Speaker 1: that like. Yeah, it was pretty tough because everyone talks about,
Speaker 1: you know, their parents, and I do say to my
Speaker 1: parents because my mum has been with my stepdad, who
Speaker 1: is the dad of my younger brother and sister. He
Speaker 1: was always my dad. But not to have my biological
Speaker 1: dad and to sort of know that, and I sort
Speaker 1: of had to do things on my own. I didn't
Speaker 1: have that, you know, the dad at the back, you know,
Speaker 1: just the cliche stuff, the things people with regular families
Speaker 1: who you know, haven't had to split up families take
Speaker 1: for granted. Those people can sort of take that for granted.
Speaker 1: Families like that because you know, they're used to it,
Speaker 1: They used to having cousins and whatever. I never had that.
Speaker 1: We didn't have that. It was just myself, my mom
Speaker 1: when I was young, my older brother who has a
Speaker 1: different dad too, So it was just all kind of
Speaker 1: craziness growing up. We grew up in a ministry house.
Speaker 1: I was born into a ministry house where which is
Speaker 1: obviously where the government pays for the house. We don't
Speaker 1: pay for it. You know. There was a number of times.
Speaker 1: And I know my Mum doesn't mind me talking about
Speaker 1: whatever I talk about because we're not like we were
Speaker 1: when I was growing up.
Speaker 2: And I think it's important.
Speaker 1: I think it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, help other kids out there exactly, and to.
Speaker 1: Make it, I guess, and achieve something that I always
Speaker 1: wanted to achieve, which was playing AFL football and then
Speaker 1: to be I guess half successful at it. See once again,
Speaker 1: well that again that comes with I feel like all
Speaker 1: this stems from my childhood and growing up, and yeah,
Speaker 1: back to that, it's it's also going into school. When
Speaker 1: I was at school, you know, I was the you know,
Speaker 1: I genuinely think I was only liked at school and
Speaker 1: very popular because I was good at sports. Other than that,
Speaker 1: you know, I was the poor kid. I didn't have
Speaker 1: of the cool shoes or the clothes. And I remember
Speaker 1: I used to run in I used to run in
Speaker 1: all the cross countries and at the school, and I'd
Speaker 1: always make the state cross country, the state hurdles and whatnot.
Speaker 1: There was only two or three kids from our school,
Speaker 1: you know, every two years. It was very rare, and
Speaker 1: I used to making it and looking back on those
Speaker 1: photos because I went I went back to the primary
Speaker 1: school just this recent last couple of weeks, and there's
Speaker 1: an old photo of me in grade six standing there
Speaker 1: about to run the state cross country and I was
Speaker 1: with two other girls, and you know, they look like
Speaker 1: I was just looking at what we were wearing, and
Speaker 1: they were wearing like these beautiful assic runners and just gorgeous,
Speaker 1: and I was wearing these big beat up holes in
Speaker 1: the front so my toe was hanging out and taped
Speaker 1: basketball shoes that I would have brought from Savers or
Speaker 1: Salvation Army. And but that's what I mean, That's what
Speaker 1: that's sort of what I grew up with. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what I meant by, you know, not feeling
Speaker 1: good enough, not feeling like I belonged anxiety, because you know,
Speaker 1: I was never the you know, never the rich kid,
Speaker 1: never the I didn't have things that other people had.
Speaker 1: If I wanted to play PlayStation or whatever it was,
Speaker 1: I'd have to go to friends houses and play that.
Speaker 1: If I wanted, you know, something other than baked beans
Speaker 1: or spaghetti or whatever it was, I'd have to go
Speaker 1: to a friend's house. So I guess that's how I
Speaker 1: was sort of born into it, and that's what I
Speaker 1: brought with me into my footy because my get out
Speaker 1: outside of that was my footy. And what I just
Speaker 1: touched on with being popular at school, that purely would
Speaker 1: have been because of my sporting ability. So I embraced
Speaker 1: that and and I wanted to be the best at
Speaker 1: all my sporting and I knew if this is if
Speaker 1: this was what was going to be me, and this
Speaker 1: is what was going to I guess, not make me,
Speaker 1: because I'm far bigger than sport, but I guess in
Speaker 1: a way make me and help me succeed in life.
Speaker 1: Then there was something that I was going to chase,
Speaker 1: and I'm here now.
Speaker 2: So early on your you felt your worthyness and self
Speaker 2: worth was wrapped up in money, I guess, and what
Speaker 2: you didn't have, yeah.
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, what I didn't have. And I'd go
Speaker 1: to school, and you know, kids being kids, like young kids,
Speaker 1: people look at you as the odd one out because
Speaker 1: you know, you're going to school with holes in your
Speaker 1: shorts and holes in your T shirt and you don't
Speaker 1: have shoes. And you know, we used to have the
Speaker 1: ESL room, which was like the English and Learning Center
Speaker 1: where at lunch, if you didn't have lunch, you can
Speaker 1: go there and get a free roll whatever it was
Speaker 1: for lunch. And I have to stress this was not
Speaker 1: off the back of my mum not trying. My mom
Speaker 1: was juggling my older brother, myself. She was living by herself.
Speaker 1: We're in a ministry house. She's trying it absolute best.
Speaker 1: She gave birth to my older brother when she was seventeen.
Speaker 1: I think she was seventeen. It's hard to get a
Speaker 1: job or someone to look after the kids. It was
Speaker 1: just really hard. Her mum had passed away when my
Speaker 1: mum was was, oh, thirteen or fourteen. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: get yeah, so I'm not making excuses, but they.
Speaker 2: Sort of are because she had a hard life.
Speaker 1: It's hard. It's hard, and she did it absolutely very
Speaker 1: best with us, And yeah, and I guess that's what
Speaker 1: I mean. That's what I mean. So it's not about
Speaker 1: not the fact that I didn't have money or we
Speaker 1: didn't have money. Why I had anxiety. It was just
Speaker 1: going to school and seeing other kids, and you know,
Speaker 1: little kids. You see now, I guess at that time
Speaker 1: you don't see because you're a kid. You see now,
Speaker 1: kids can be mean to each other. Kids always mean
Speaker 1: to each other at school, and they just say things.
Speaker 1: No I did. I did get teased for you know,
Speaker 1: not having food or clothes or.
Speaker 2: What kind of things.
Speaker 1: Would they say, Oh, yeah, it was just more laughing
Speaker 1: at me. It was more laughing at me. And I
Speaker 1: can't really remember what they were.
Speaker 2: Saying, but you can remember how it felt.
Speaker 1: Oh, I definitely remember how it felt, because you know,
Speaker 1: there was times where I didn't want to go to school,
Speaker 1: like I didn't really didn't want to go, and yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how it was. But like I said, I could
Speaker 1: always resort back to my sport and it was the
Speaker 1: only reason why I was, why I was popular at
Speaker 1: schools because of my sport. Other than that, no other reason.
Speaker 2: How do you feel about your biological dad.
Speaker 1: I've been asked this a few times, but there's no
Speaker 1: feeling there, Like I don't. My dad is my stepdad,
Speaker 1: who's been there since pretty much. I can remember my
Speaker 1: best friend's old man Sam, So, my best friend Ray Sam,
Speaker 1: he's another dad. My father in law was a he's
Speaker 1: another dad. But Sam and my stepdady's name is Ken.
Speaker 1: Those two us especially like I wouldn't. Yeah, I can't
Speaker 1: speak more highly of him, especially Sam. When I came
Speaker 1: into their life, I was I was thirteen, they just moved.
Speaker 1: They lived in Noble Park, I living down and long.
Speaker 1: They would have seen this scrawny little runt who used
Speaker 1: to train in basketball shoes and hand me down from
Speaker 1: the Salvos wwet shirts because that's what I used to wear,
Speaker 1: and big bodies because and everyone was wearing their favorite
Speaker 1: footy players at training and I wasn't wearing anything. And
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was. I really don't know
Speaker 1: what it was. But Sam, Carol and Ray raised an
Speaker 1: only child. They took me in and when I knew that,
Speaker 1: I was welcomed because I was always hesitant. I could
Speaker 1: never stay at other people's houses, not even my cousin
Speaker 1: or my cousins or anything, because I'd always just want
Speaker 1: to be with my mum. When I sort of met
Speaker 1: Ray and we played foota together and I started to
Speaker 1: get more and more comfortable. I remember Ray one time
Speaker 1: asked me to stay at his house when I was
Speaker 1: thirteen or whatever it was, and I'd never stayed at
Speaker 1: anyone houses I'd been and try to, but I'd always
Speaker 1: cry at middle of the night or whatever it was,
Speaker 1: and asked to go home, and I'd get dropped home
Speaker 1: probably over twenty times, and yeah, this one time I
Speaker 1: went there, and yeah, I just never felt more at
Speaker 1: home than I was when I was there. And I
Speaker 1: stayed the night, and I reckon for a whole year,
Speaker 1: for two for a year to two years, every Friday
Speaker 1: would stay at Ray's house, and it became ritual. They
Speaker 1: became my second family, and to this day they are
Speaker 1: they're my you know, they're as close to me as
Speaker 1: I am with my mum. And I guess my brothers
Speaker 1: and Kim and yeah, Sam mc carroll definitely my second parents.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I guess that's sort of what saved me
Speaker 1: from going down a completely different path. Well and truly
Speaker 1: because my older brother, again not having any role models
Speaker 1: in our life. He's old man, wasn't in his life.
Speaker 1: It was just mum, you know. He hung out with
Speaker 1: the wrong crowd and got himself in a bit of trouble.
Speaker 1: He's now, thank God, I pray to God every day.
Speaker 1: That's touch is. He's got two kids, he's got another
Speaker 1: kid on the way. My older brother, he's settled as
Speaker 1: a house with his partner, and he was going down
Speaker 1: the complete opposite path. He was on the verge of
Speaker 1: going to jail. Or whatever it was. And and that
Speaker 1: was purely because we had nothing. We had absolutely nobody.
Speaker 1: And when I was at age, like I said with
Speaker 1: Sam and Carol and Ray, I was thirteen, I was
Speaker 1: this is when you start to branch out as a
Speaker 1: football player, I believe, because you physically start to develop
Speaker 1: a little bit more and whatnot. I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is that drew them, that drew them to me,
Speaker 1: because I could have just been any other kid who
Speaker 1: could have been anything. And yeah, they were willing to
Speaker 1: take me in, take me to my interleague games, take
Speaker 1: me to my down on sting Ray games, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm here now. And if I didn't have that, I
Speaker 1: genuinely don't know, I could have gone down the pathway
Speaker 1: of my brother whatever it was.
Speaker 2: So they saved your life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love them dearly. I just can't speak more
Speaker 1: high of him. Sam. We're doing to be Reno's at
Speaker 1: the moment. And you know a perfect example. Yesterday we
Speaker 1: got a new fridge put in and I'm not the
Speaker 1: most handiest man in the world, and I didn't know
Speaker 1: how to unscrew one of them. There was like a
Speaker 1: thing that was attached to the fridge and I rang
Speaker 1: Sam up yesterday and he had work and he left work.
Speaker 1: He had three hours left. He left work, he said,
Speaker 1: I'm coming. He came in and fixed it all for me.
Speaker 1: Was there for about an hour and a half and
Speaker 1: then went. Ray on his birthday, which is the son
Speaker 1: who's my best mate. Ray on his birthday two weeks ago,
Speaker 1: January twelfth, he we're getting a pagola. He built the
Speaker 1: pagolar off his own back. He's a builder. Sunday birthday
Speaker 1: he came over. Woke up at eight o'clock to him
Speaker 1: building the pagolar outside on his birthday. So, yeah, I
Speaker 1: love these guys dearly.
Speaker 2: Does it build sense of resentment or anger in you
Speaker 2: when you're a young man and your dad's picked up
Speaker 2: and left.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. It does, because I feel like I
Speaker 1: miss out on a little bit. I miss out on
Speaker 1: well won that role model, having a role model, Like
Speaker 1: I'm Kim and I are going to be parents in March.
Speaker 1: So I think about that and I just think like
Speaker 1: I'm going to do everything I can. Whatever happens between
Speaker 1: Kim and I, it does not matter. And you know,
Speaker 1: she's the love of my life. I'll be with there
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life, but if something would
Speaker 1: ever happen, I would move heaven and earth for my
Speaker 1: daughter's going to be obviously my daughter. So I think
Speaker 1: about that growing up, and I don't know. And I've
Speaker 1: had conversations with my mum and asked her whether just
Speaker 1: be honest with me. Did you stop him from seeing
Speaker 1: me or whatever it was? And here from what my
Speaker 1: mom's told me, and I know, she has no reason
Speaker 1: at all to lie because you know, she lost her
Speaker 1: own mum and her dad was sort of in and
Speaker 1: out of her life too, so she had no reason
Speaker 1: to lie. And I just feel like, from from what
Speaker 1: I've been told, there was never any effort from my
Speaker 1: biological dad's behalf. And I miss out not only on
Speaker 1: a role model and having stability, I guess as a kid,
Speaker 1: because we had none of that. You know, we weren't
Speaker 1: guaranteed food and things like that, just things that other
Speaker 1: people might take for granted. I know there's cousins out
Speaker 1: there on his side, so his nieces and nephews that
Speaker 1: are my cousins that I would love to you know,
Speaker 1: have a bit to do with. Obviously, my grandma. So
Speaker 1: my mom's mom passed away when my mum was thirty,
Speaker 1: so I don't have my grandma. My pop, I guess
Speaker 1: was in and out of my mum's life, so I
Speaker 1: didn't really have my pop. But I know on my
Speaker 1: biological dad's side, I know, you know his mom, so
Speaker 1: my nan on that side was a massive footy fan.
Speaker 1: You know, he's still well and truly I think alive.
Speaker 1: So yeah, just things like that that I missed out on.
Speaker 2: And did you ever try and reach out to him?
Speaker 1: I did when I was When I was sixteen, I
Speaker 1: went and asked my mom if I could meet my auntie,
Speaker 1: which was my biological dad's sister and my cousin. So
Speaker 1: I met them once and got on lock a House
Speaker 1: on Fire. But I remember for some reason I didn't
Speaker 1: want to meet my dad. I did not want to
Speaker 1: meet him, and I remember for some reason he was,
Speaker 1: He came, he was there. You know, whether they listened
Speaker 1: to this or not, I you know, from then on out,
Speaker 1: I just knew I didn't want to have anything to
Speaker 1: do with him. He was just the polar opposite. He
Speaker 1: was doesn't watch football, everything that I was interested in,
Speaker 1: he was the opposite pretty much. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: I don't even think I look like him. You know,
Speaker 1: I've seen him, and I'm like, I don't even look
Speaker 1: like you mate, like you know, I'm it's just, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's something that I don't really think about or
Speaker 1: talk about or say anything about. So it's quite weird
Speaker 1: openly talking about it because I haven't really spoken about
Speaker 1: it to anyone. So I guess it's played a part
Speaker 1: in my anxiety is growing up, but it is what
Speaker 1: it is. I've managed to create a life without him.
Speaker 2: Do you remember how you felt when you saw him?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I was just I couldn't believe that I
Speaker 1: was actually seeing him because I'd never met him. I'd
Speaker 1: spoken to him, I think once or twice when I
Speaker 1: was younger, on the phone, but I don't remember those conversations.
Speaker 1: I just remember i'd spoken to him, But yeah, meeting,
Speaker 1: I just remember like I just couldn't believe he was there.
Speaker 1: I was just thinking, wow, like this is actually the guy.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be alive it wasn't for this guy. But
Speaker 1: that was it. There was no you know, there was
Speaker 1: no instant like wow, my life has been leading to
Speaker 1: this moment to meet the other half of who created me.
Speaker 1: Like there was no love, There was nothing It was
Speaker 1: just wow. And I think he gave me thirty dollars
Speaker 1: credit actually for my phone, and that was that was
Speaker 1: pretty much it had He had a family of his own,
Speaker 1: She had this beautiful house, beautiful house in Collingwood, somewhere
Speaker 1: peronic in Collingwood, and they had he had his own
Speaker 1: little bar at the back lock. He just had things
Speaker 1: that I would have dreamt of having growing up. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I just remember thinking wow, wow. And yeah, I've never
Speaker 1: spoke to him or seen him since.
Speaker 2: Did he try after that?
Speaker 1: See that? That's what I mean, like even if I
Speaker 1: felt like there was a bit of effort there on
Speaker 1: his behalf, which there wasn't, And and I got no
Speaker 1: doubt since he gave me credit. I cannot remember, but
Speaker 1: I got no doubt I would have given him my number.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I know now I have had no communication
Speaker 1: at all, nothing, not even with my football, which he
Speaker 1: sort of made me feel good, because you know, if
Speaker 1: I felt like he was I want to get into
Speaker 1: my life. Once I saw it I got drafted and was
Speaker 1: in the taking credit, then I would have told him
Speaker 1: we to go. Pretty much, that's a.
Speaker 2: Very impressionable age to have been through something like that.
Speaker 2: And particularly when you put on top of a budding
Speaker 2: football career and the fact that you're trying to get
Speaker 2: drafted and I imagine putting a lot of pressure on
Speaker 2: yourself in that sense to also be going through that
Speaker 2: at the same time.
Speaker 1: That's a lot. Yeah, yeah, I guess, I guess. But
Speaker 1: my get out was football, so up until about the
Speaker 1: age of sixteen, because I think that's when I shot,
Speaker 1: I shouted, when I started, hope shut, I was going
Speaker 1: to say start and showed together. It was when I
Speaker 1: started to show signs of my anxiety.
Speaker 2: I started to shut.
Speaker 1: I reckon. It was when I started to show signs
Speaker 1: of my anxiety and I used to show it in
Speaker 1: a form of OCD. So up until then, up until
Speaker 1: about sixteen, I used to go out there and play
Speaker 1: and just genuinely love playing, Like love playing and I
Speaker 1: love being because that was junior foody. I love being
Speaker 1: the best player. I was better than everyone at junior footy.
Speaker 1: I just I just loved it. And then starting to
Speaker 1: make the rep teams and go on you know, trips
Speaker 1: to Sydney and play for Fit Country and my other
Speaker 1: best mate, so I got two best mates growing up.
Speaker 1: Pever was the other one and he actually got drafted
Speaker 1: Richmond as a rookie twenty twelve. Funny story, but anyway,
Speaker 1: he was my other best mate growing up and very
Speaker 1: similar to me. He's island, one of nine kids. His
Speaker 1: older brother has twenty eight and has eight kids now,
Speaker 1: like it's just a big island a family. And we
Speaker 1: did everything together and he was my support system with
Speaker 1: my football because we played Sting Rays No Park everything together.
Speaker 1: And I think back to when I started to make
Speaker 1: those teams because I never played. I never never went
Speaker 1: to a private school, no way. No. I don't even
Speaker 1: think we paid for the public school fees just because
Speaker 1: the schools could see that I had potentially get drafted.
Speaker 1: I don't think they were going to bother charge of
Speaker 1: my mum because it was just not gonna happen. Otherwise
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been schooled.
Speaker 2: It's a lot to have your footballing ability wrapped up
Speaker 2: in so much, so much that puts a lot of
Speaker 2: immediate pressure on your career.
Speaker 1: Well, when we started to get to them REP teams
Speaker 1: where you were chosen, you didn't have to pay to
Speaker 1: go into these programs like parents through these days. And
Speaker 1: I remember my first main thing I got chosen in
Speaker 1: was under sixteen. The country tournament. We played in these
Speaker 1: little practice match around robin things where they selected I
Speaker 1: think it was like sixty country kids and then you'd
Speaker 1: have to try it and that to make the final
Speaker 1: thirty squad. And I remember making those I never thought
Speaker 1: I was gonna be good enough at all, No way,
Speaker 1: like I never thought at all would be good enough
Speaker 1: whatever it was, even though when I'd go play local
Speaker 1: footy on the weekend, I'd absolutely dominating. I know I would,
Speaker 1: and I'd just I'd know I would, and I'd show it.
Speaker 1: But then I get in these environments and I just
Speaker 1: never thought I'd be good enough or ever believed in myself.
Speaker 1: When I finally actually made the team, Bucks was coaching,
Speaker 1: we went up to Sydney, and I remember I was
Speaker 1: with Peaver and the worry we had, so our parents
Speaker 1: dropped us off at like a petrol station near the
Speaker 1: airport and we called a bus to Sydney or the
Speaker 1: as and Sydney because Bucks wanted to organize all that
Speaker 1: with the players. And remember they said, you know, you've
Speaker 1: got to bring your own pocket money and this and that,
Speaker 1: and we're going to be going out for lunches and
Speaker 1: dinners off your own back and this and that for
Speaker 1: the twelve days ahead, and oh we I didn't give
Speaker 1: it any money, Like the only clothes I brought was
Speaker 1: the VIC Country clothes that we'd been given. Other than that,
Speaker 1: I reckon I had the same T shirt, shorts. The
Speaker 1: only shoes I was wearing was shoes we were given
Speaker 1: again from VIC Country. So I had clothes that was
Speaker 1: given to us. On this bus trip about diverse South Australia,
Speaker 1: VIC Metro Western Australia against players now, Tom Mitchell now
Speaker 1: and Steve Conniglio, all these stars who were playing for
Speaker 1: other teams, Chad Winguard, and I was thinking, what am
Speaker 1: I doing. I can't even I don't have any money
Speaker 1: like Peter and I don't have any money. We can't
Speaker 1: go on these lunches. We're wearing the VIC Country clothes
Speaker 1: around Sydney everywhere we go, and we're getting looked at
Speaker 1: by the other players, probably looking at us like why
Speaker 1: these guys just wearing every Country clothes all the time,
Speaker 1: going out there playing, not evenythinking I belong. And at
Speaker 1: the end of the tournament up I end up winning
Speaker 1: the MVP of the Carnival and we ended up winning
Speaker 1: the title, the national champion, the championship, and then I
Speaker 1: made the AOS team. There's only one of thirty kids
Speaker 1: who made it each year, and I made that and
Speaker 1: that all happened in one year, and by the time
Speaker 1: that end of the year came, I was I reckon
Speaker 1: full blown had OCD, which was a part of me
Speaker 1: dealing with my anxiety. Things would have to be in
Speaker 1: certain ways. I'd have to put my shoes on left right.
Speaker 1: I look back ten years, so it's ten years. This
Speaker 1: year was when I started getting in them programs so
Speaker 1: long I've been around for ten years. Jeez.
Speaker 2: So you say that OCD superstitions for other people.
Speaker 1: Actually, way of me dealing with my anxiety was mostly
Speaker 1: no doubt. And my psychologist at that time was Rosie
Speaker 1: for Got her last, big, long, last name. She worked
Speaker 1: with the Giants and the As and if you could
Speaker 1: ever speak to her, she could vouch for that too,
Speaker 1: as a way of me dealing with my anxiety.
Speaker 2: So how bad what kind of it was terrible?
Speaker 1: The thing is, I don't remember how bad it was.
Speaker 1: That's how bad of a headspace I was in. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you ask Taylor Adams was playing there, and Taylor
Speaker 1: is one of my closest mates here. He was playing
Speaker 1: there at the time with me Dylan. She was playing
Speaker 1: guys that I played with. I reckon if you were
Speaker 1: to ask them, they would have more because I just
Speaker 1: remember being in a frame of mind where I would
Speaker 1: have set routines when i'd wake up, from the minute
Speaker 1: I woke up to the minute I went to bed,
Speaker 1: I'd have things I'd have to do throughout the day. Otherwise,
Speaker 1: One I'd think that I wasn't good enough and I
Speaker 1: didn't belong being here too, that bad luck was going
Speaker 1: to come my way if I don't do what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: And three that I'm being ungrateful and everything that I
Speaker 1: have is going to get taken away from me. That
Speaker 1: were my three things, and that that was why I
Speaker 1: went through what I was going through with my OCD,
Speaker 1: and it was a form of me, I guess, dealing
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 2: Do you think it's because the stakes were raised because.
Speaker 1: You were doing because I got more and more and more,
Speaker 1: And then I think.
Speaker 2: Instead a feeling worthy, you were feeling like yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think because I was achieving things, Like I said,
Speaker 1: we won the national Carnival Under sixteens and I won
Speaker 1: the MVP with Tom Mitchell, like I'm thinking, are you
Speaker 1: kidding me? Like you guys watch the same game, like
Speaker 1: there's no way. And then I made the AS which
Speaker 1: was only thirty kids each year making we got to
Speaker 1: go to South Africa, like I'd never done anything like that.
Speaker 1: And because I was achieving things, I thought, well, this
Speaker 1: is this is why I'm achieving it. Because my anxiety
Speaker 1: is through the roof, I have OCD to deal with it.
Speaker 1: This is why I'm achieving. That's what I believed. And
Speaker 1: I look back now and I don't do anything OCD now.
Speaker 1: The only thing I do is if I say something,
Speaker 1: I'll touch would whatever it is. But I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people do that and just I just put
Speaker 1: my shoes on left to right and that's all I do.
Speaker 1: But no one would know that if I didn't say anything.
Speaker 1: I just put them on left right every time. That's
Speaker 1: just the thing I'd do. Other than that, Like I
Speaker 1: don't even remember. I used to just do so many things.
Speaker 1: I used to have a routine, to the point where
Speaker 1: my Mum used to pretty much cry to me, like Adam,
Speaker 1: what are you doing? Like you know, what are you doing,
Speaker 1: Like you're frying your brain, You're going to have a
Speaker 1: breakdown like whatever it is, And yeah, that was just me.
Speaker 1: That was me.
Speaker 2: You mentioned you're about to be a dad, and you've
Speaker 2: done a lot of self reflecting what kind of dad
Speaker 2: do you want to be and what did you learn
Speaker 2: from your childhood?
Speaker 1: In that sense, I'm going to be there. That's the
Speaker 1: most important thing. No matter what, I'm going to be there.
Speaker 1: I feel like I have a lot of love in
Speaker 1: this world to give to people, and I do that.
Speaker 1: But with this little baby girl that's going to be
Speaker 1: here soon, she already is my world. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: I I think about her and I just you know,
Speaker 1: I get emotional, like it's just crazy that myself and Kim,
Speaker 1: who we've been through so much. Yeah, it's just when
Speaker 1: I found out, it was just it was just the
Speaker 1: greatest thing in the world, Like being where I've been
Speaker 1: and the headspace that I've been in before the last
Speaker 1: twelve months one having Kim there and from the moment
Speaker 1: I laid my eyes on Kim, it was almost like
Speaker 1: it's such a cliche thing to say, but it was
Speaker 1: almost like my heart was like, yeah, that's the girl
Speaker 1: that I want to be with and to know that
Speaker 1: we've created something that we're going to love Deally And
Speaker 1: I already love Deally like she's just the whole reason
Speaker 1: why I live now she's not even here. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just I just want to I just want to give
Speaker 1: her what I didn't have. I just want to give
Speaker 1: her everything that I didn't have. And yeah, I've spoken
Speaker 1: about what I didn't have, And it's not about the
Speaker 1: material things. It's just about the love of the guidance,
Speaker 1: the care, the want to make her a nice, happy, caring,
Speaker 1: grateful human being and get to an age where she
Speaker 1: can pass on her own knowledge to her own kids
Speaker 1: and she can, you know, be proud that Kim and
Speaker 1: I raised.
Speaker 2: Her, be proud of my dad.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Every time we'll talk about Kim and the girl
Speaker 1: emotional all the time.
Speaker 2: It's nice. Yeah, you've mentioned how much Kim's been there
Speaker 2: for you. It must have been tough for her as well,
Speaker 2: watching somebody go through deep level of anxiety.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, she was sort of the first person I
Speaker 1: told when I was when I felt like I needed
Speaker 1: to talk to someone or I actually needed to say
Speaker 1: something otherwise, like I didn't know what I was going
Speaker 1: to do, whether I was going to retire or you know,
Speaker 1: whatever it was, because I genuinely wanted to. I was this.
Speaker 1: This was two thousand and eighteen, so but yeah, I
Speaker 1: sort of said the story in the documentary, but it
Speaker 1: was after the round three we played against Carlton, and
Speaker 1: up until then, I'd been sort of dealing with a
Speaker 1: bit and I just hadn't shown anything. And I just
Speaker 1: remember we won, We won the game and everything. It
Speaker 1: was a good game, and I was just in the
Speaker 1: in the spa, out there, ball in my eyes, out
Speaker 1: trying to hide my tears from everyone, and I sort
Speaker 1: of knew that I need to say something. And Kim
Speaker 1: was up on the Gold Coast playing in the Commonwealth
Speaker 1: Games and I was lining up the next day to
Speaker 1: watch her, and I told her that night, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I spent the weekend with her, and she told me,
Speaker 1: I need to talk to someone that's sort sort of
Speaker 1: where we've got the ball rolling, but to see for
Speaker 1: her to be there at my most vulnerable times. You know,
Speaker 1: I think back now, and she was going with her
Speaker 1: own stuff. She was dealing with her own stuff. She
Speaker 1: plays an elite sport at the highest level, has been
Speaker 1: since she was eighteen. You know, she's been two Commonwealth Games,
Speaker 1: she's done and also wanted to Premiership everything. And for
Speaker 1: her to be there and sacrifice I guess her own
Speaker 1: life in a way and choose to stay here and
Speaker 1: be here in Melbourne to support me. And she's a
Speaker 1: New South Wales girl. Her family's in New South Wales.
Speaker 1: She lives and breathes Queensland because she loves Queensland. To
Speaker 1: be here in a place where she's out of her
Speaker 1: comfort zone purely for me and to help me and
Speaker 1: support me, is you know, that's just love. That's just
Speaker 1: love right there. It's something that, yeah, as much as
Speaker 1: you can go through life when you're with someone and
Speaker 1: you know, just go through the motions a bit and
Speaker 1: take them for granted in a way, I never would.
Speaker 1: I never will. I never would. She's the greatest human
Speaker 1: being in the world to me, she's she's Yeah, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't be that. I can genuinely say I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: playing footy now. I would have retired already well and
Speaker 1: truly if it wasn't well and truly well and truly,
Speaker 1: And I know if you talk to anyone here at
Speaker 1: the club and they were to hear that. You know,
Speaker 1: they be oh, no, this and that, this and that well,
Speaker 1: and truly I would have retired well.
Speaker 2: And truly, why was it so bad at that time?
Speaker 1: I just I just didn't want to play, like I didn't.
Speaker 1: It started with anxiety around performance. I still have that now,
Speaker 1: Like I have anxiety around performance. Everyone hasn't. You're lying
Speaker 1: if you don't say you don't have anxiety around performance.
Speaker 1: And I'm just saying on different spectrums of anxiety, whether
Speaker 1: it's the smallest of anxiety. Everyone gets anxiety about performance
Speaker 1: because you want to play well. You want to play well,
Speaker 1: and you want the team to win. But when it
Speaker 1: started for me to translate to off the field, and
Speaker 1: the anxiety came with me and was with me off
Speaker 1: the field and was in my everyday life. In my head,
Speaker 1: I was thinking, you don't deserve this, You don't deserve
Speaker 1: that everything you have right now, look where you've come from, Like,
Speaker 1: you don't deserve to have any of this. And I
Speaker 1: can't tell you why my brain was doing that, but
Speaker 1: this was doing that and for that to translate to
Speaker 1: off the field, because at least at the time or
Speaker 1: even now, when I get my worries about football, whatever
Speaker 1: it is, I can step in my own head, I
Speaker 1: can step outside of the football side of me and
Speaker 1: accept life and be, oh, how good is this? Like
Speaker 1: I've got this beautiful house with my partner and my
Speaker 1: baby to be everything. Where at that point in my
Speaker 1: time in my life, at that time, it was affecting
Speaker 1: my life. It was affecting everything everything.
Speaker 2: How did it manifest itself? What would happen?
Speaker 1: What it was? I think it started with hearing things
Speaker 1: from what did I say to you when just before
Speaker 1: we about the start, I said, you're one of the
Speaker 1: good ones hearing things about you know, I guess in
Speaker 1: terms of the football side of things, I felt like
Speaker 1: you're getting judged because what you see me two hours
Speaker 1: a week playing football, and I'm a competitive person. I
Speaker 1: hate losing. I'm not going to be liked by everyone.
Speaker 1: But don't judge. Don't judge me and attack me personally.
Speaker 1: And that's how I feel a lot of people went
Speaker 1: about things. I guess early on, especially two sixteen, two seven,
Speaker 1: and when I first got here, we weren't overly successful,
Speaker 1: and we had a great group of guys who probably
Speaker 1: you know, should have played better than what we did,
Speaker 1: but we didn't. I felt like the way we were
Speaker 1: attacked and me too, and people telling me, you know,
Speaker 1: why did you go here and not go to Richmond
Speaker 1: and whatever it was, and that affected me. It affected
Speaker 1: me because from what I'd been through and gone through
Speaker 1: and my child growing up, and the love and care
Speaker 1: that I have for so many people and everything, for
Speaker 1: people to attack me and call me, you know, a
Speaker 1: dickhead and they don't know me like that, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? They just don't know me. No one
Speaker 1: outside of who knows me, who doesn't know me. No
Speaker 1: one knows what I'm like, knows how I am, knows
Speaker 1: how I will do anything for anyone I go, I
Speaker 1: step out of my way, do anything for anyone. The
Speaker 1: amount of times I'd go on to my Instagram messages
Speaker 1: or whatever it was, and ninety five percent of the
Speaker 1: time it'd be people or kids asking for advice, this
Speaker 1: and that. And I used to spend an hour, two hours,
Speaker 1: probably two every two weeks just going through that and
Speaker 1: replying to everyone who genuinely wants feedback, advice, everything, And
Speaker 1: then going through those comments. You'd see occasionally see one
Speaker 1: pop up and it's just someone absolutely hurling abuse at
Speaker 1: mee for choosing to play for Collin and Richmond, or
Speaker 1: you know, saying just yeah, just calling me shit like
Speaker 1: it's just petty stuff, petty stuff that I probably shouldn't
Speaker 1: even worry about. I know that it's easy for people
Speaker 1: to say, don't worry about it, but it affects me.
Speaker 1: It affects me. It affected me, So it affected me,
Speaker 1: affects me. Now I'll just ignore that and I don't
Speaker 1: worry about that stuff. But that's where it all manifested
Speaker 1: them early two sixteen, two seventeen, because if you think
Speaker 1: about it to twelve thirteen, fourteen fifteen at the Giants,
Speaker 1: there's no attention to the Giants, like, with all due
Speaker 1: respect to them there, that's why they're so so freaking
Speaker 1: good and they're a great footy club. And you know,
Speaker 1: I will always love that football club because of how
Speaker 1: they shape me into the the player and person that
Speaker 1: I am, and the people there are incredible. But you know,
Speaker 1: there's no attention, there's no spotlight, and you come into
Speaker 1: this spotlight and you know, you feel like you get attacked,
Speaker 1: like as a person and say, I go to a
Speaker 1: shopping center at Southland whatever it is, and I'm a
Speaker 1: proud person and I'm loving and caring it. I'll go
Speaker 1: if someone's a photo, whatever it is, I go out
Speaker 1: of my way for them. But if someone you know,
Speaker 1: and this happens quite a bit, if someone you know
Speaker 1: were to say something real smart, assy or whatever it was,
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to pull myself back, tough for me,
Speaker 1: anyone to tough for me to not what like, go
Speaker 1: up and challenge the bloke and not do anything about it.
Speaker 1: And when I'm with my friends and I'm talking, my
Speaker 1: best friends grew up like me. So if you're growing
Speaker 1: up like me and someone challenges out, things happen like
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And I'm with these guys
Speaker 1: and I get challenged and not challenged. I get, you know,
Speaker 1: people just being smart us because there are in groups
Speaker 1: of friends and whatever it is, and it's just like,
Speaker 1: come on, man, you see me two hours a week,
Speaker 1: kick a football around, come and have a chat with
Speaker 1: me about football or whatever you want to talk to
Speaker 1: me about. And I guarantee you'd be if you if
Speaker 1: you had an opinion of me, and if it's a
Speaker 1: negative opinion, to be completely shocked. Because I love everyone.
Speaker 1: I'm a lover. I'm a lover. I'm well and truly
Speaker 1: a lover. I have the time for everyone.
Speaker 2: You're listening to. Ordinarily, speaking with special guests Adam Trelaw
Speaker 2: of the Collingwood Football Club, I find the face that
Speaker 2: football is in general, but you specifically put out. It's
Speaker 2: really interesting to me because, for example, you talk about
Speaker 2: anxiety and performance anxiety with football. I remember very vividly
Speaker 2: Grand Final Day. The game was going I was doing
Speaker 2: radio on the boundary and you ran past on the
Speaker 2: boundary spot it spotted me sitting down, gave a wink
Speaker 2: and said good anaz well the Grand Finals going on.
Speaker 2: And I thought Jesus books relaxed today. Either that or
Speaker 2: it was totally covering up just the sheer levels of
Speaker 2: anxiety because that was such. You don't get football as
Speaker 2: doing that in an ordinary game, let alone Grand Final Day.
Speaker 2: What were you thinking in that?
Speaker 1: No, I do remember that. It's just yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of I feel like there's a lot of mutual
Speaker 1: respect between you and I and I can just tell
Speaker 1: a lock. I said, you're one on the good You're
Speaker 1: a good person and you want to get the best
Speaker 1: out of people. And I can see that. And when
Speaker 1: I see that in people, no matter who it is.
Speaker 1: We're talking about the trainers here who I'd get water
Speaker 1: off them twenty times a game, and I make sure
Speaker 1: every time i'm gonna get water, I say thank you,
Speaker 1: no matter what it is. If I'm gassed, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: I say thank you, and I guarantee they could vouch
Speaker 1: for that. It's a way of me showing a sign
Speaker 1: of appreciation because that person, in particular, so you in
Speaker 1: this instance, has had an effect on me in a
Speaker 1: positive way, and I appreciate that. I appreciate all that.
Speaker 1: I'll give you my time. I don't care if I'm
Speaker 1: about to, you know, play on the grand fine, I
Speaker 1: don't care if I see I'm going to say good eight,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. I'm not one of those guys where
Speaker 1: oh it's football. I'm just going to lock in. And
Speaker 1: that's what that's what I mean by you know, these
Speaker 1: harmful words and social media and people don't see like
Speaker 1: I'm a lover, not a fighter, like I have time
Speaker 1: for everyone. And the example you said, if I know
Speaker 1: you and I'll see how I'll say good ad you.
Speaker 1: I don't care if you you know, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: I don't care if you don't go for Collingwood. If
Speaker 1: you're whatever it is, I'll still talk to you. It
Speaker 1: does not phase me.
Speaker 2: That's really nice. If you think you're just saying that,
Speaker 2: I didn't expect that to be the rest spot, that
Speaker 2: would be some sort of nervous tick.
Speaker 1: Or if it was you know, Jared Witeley or Mark Robinson,
Speaker 1: if they because I've done a work with him, if
Speaker 1: they were sitting there on the boundary line, I'd say
Speaker 1: the same I'd do the same thing. I'd say, good,
Speaker 1: here you go.
Speaker 2: How did it affect your footy? At the depths of it.
Speaker 2: At the depths of it, I.
Speaker 1: Didn't want to play. The thing is I didn't want
Speaker 1: to play, so because that was round three, I hurt
Speaker 1: myself around thirteen, So that was teen games with it.
Speaker 1: By actually nine games. I reckon four of those games.
Speaker 1: I rank him up before the game, told I don't
Speaker 1: want to play. I can't play. I just feel ungrateful,
Speaker 1: not I'm grateful. I just feel not worthy, like I
Speaker 1: shouldn't be out there. I'm cheating myself. I'm I'm a
Speaker 1: fraud in front of the boys. Boys are asking how
Speaker 1: I'm going, and I meant to show them this persona
Speaker 1: that I'm fine and what not with deep down, I'm
Speaker 1: really dying on the inside when I say things happen
Speaker 1: for a reason, because that's something I genuinely believe in.
Speaker 1: And God makes things happen for a reason. And when
Speaker 1: I did my hamstream ripped my hamster off the bone
Speaker 1: that day against Carlton around thirteen or fourteen, I now,
Speaker 1: I didn't want to. I didn't want to play that game.
Speaker 1: I ranked him up beforehand that morning, and she was
Speaker 1: playing a game of netball and then came across and
Speaker 1: watched me play, and her old man was a came
Speaker 1: to watch too, and he first game had ever been.
Speaker 1: I remember ringing up and saying, I didn't want to, can't,
Speaker 1: I can't do it. She came home, So.
Speaker 2: Were you sitting in your car?
Speaker 1: And I was at home before that leave and I
Speaker 1: came home. She came home and she's seen me after
Speaker 1: I already told her, and I was. I broke down
Speaker 1: on the bed and I said, can you ring It
Speaker 1: would either been Maxie or row Rolling Bounds, who's he's
Speaker 1: been here for one hundred years pretty much, and she
Speaker 1: pretty much, you know, we pretty much talked it out
Speaker 1: and ended up convincing me not to not to not play,
Speaker 1: you know, do what. But it was in a good way.
Speaker 1: It wasn't in a way where she sort of forced
Speaker 1: me to play by no means at all. This is
Speaker 1: what I needed reassurance a lot of the time. I
Speaker 1: just needed reassurance that everything's going to be okay. And
Speaker 1: that's what she did. And I think she was probably
Speaker 1: one of only two or three people at the time,
Speaker 1: with Jackie and Maxie and Bucks to one of four
Speaker 1: people who could probably get that out of me. If
Speaker 1: that was any other person, I probably would have said, Noah, stuffy,
Speaker 1: I'm staining here, I'm not even going ended up going
Speaker 1: and yeah, I just I ripped my hamster off the
Speaker 1: bone in the last quarter. But that whole game I
Speaker 1: was I was miserable. I was absolutely miserable, and Maxie
Speaker 1: could see it on the bench. You know, we won
Speaker 1: the game, but I didn't want to be there and
Speaker 1: just mentally was checked out. I didn't want to be there.
Speaker 1: And when I ripped my hamster off the bone, I
Speaker 1: didn't know it at the time, or both hammies. I
Speaker 1: didn't know it at all, and then went down into
Speaker 1: the rooms. I don't even we won. I don't even
Speaker 1: remember singing the song. I think I bypassed the song
Speaker 1: with Maxie. MAXI took me into a room again. I
Speaker 1: didn't know the extent of my hamstrings. I genuinely thought
Speaker 1: i'd had two cramps, and by the stage, the cramps
Speaker 1: had settled, so I wasn't really in too much pain.
Speaker 1: It was very sore, but I was in pain. And
Speaker 1: MAXI brought Kim and was her in and I was
Speaker 1: ball of eyes out, not because of my hamstrings. I
Speaker 1: was ball of eyes out because I just couldn't believe
Speaker 1: I put myself through two hours of not wanting to
Speaker 1: do something like I genuinely, genuinely that was the worst
Speaker 1: where I didn't want to be there. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to be there. I just wanted to leave. I reckon
Speaker 1: halfway through the second court. I wanted to leave. I
Speaker 1: wanted to walk off the ground and leave. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: remember having that. I avoided the meeting, so the boys
Speaker 1: went to the meeting. I waited them to go to
Speaker 1: the meeting, and I went home, and yeah, I just
Speaker 1: remember being a mess talking to Kim, and yeah, I
Speaker 1: just remember saying, how good is this? How goods now
Speaker 1: that I have a reason not to play, And three
Speaker 1: days later I went in for surgery to repair my hairshring,
Speaker 1: and I was happy. I was happy I had didn't
Speaker 1: have to put myself through something I didn't want to
Speaker 1: go through, and that was playing relieved, and then yeah,
Speaker 1: and then that eight to nine week period was probably
Speaker 1: the most clear clear mind I've ever been before that
Speaker 1: like in a long time with my football, Like probably ever,
Speaker 1: I've never been that clear of mine. After I had
Speaker 1: my surgery, I had two weeks off. We had a
Speaker 1: couple of injuries, and we didn't know how the season
Speaker 1: was a pan out because we had some big injuries
Speaker 1: and we didn't know where we're going to finish whatever
Speaker 1: it was. And got to a point where we got
Speaker 1: on a roll and won like three or four games
Speaker 1: in a row, and it was voluntarily clear we're going
Speaker 1: to play finals. Just didn't know where we're going to finish.
Speaker 1: I got to a point where after having two three
Speaker 1: weeks off, I'd seen Jackie for her in that two
Speaker 1: week period where I'd hurt my hamstring, her, Kim and Maxie,
Speaker 1: the work that we did together, it saved me. It
Speaker 1: saved my career, It saved my career. It generally saved
Speaker 1: my career because I wanted to retire, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to play anymore, and I wanted to get into a
Speaker 1: field where I could where I could get clear of mind.
Speaker 1: I knew without footy being there, my anxiety would be
Speaker 1: would be gone almost because I wouldn't have to worry
Speaker 1: about that, because that's how I get judged. Eighty to
Speaker 1: nine percent of my life. I'm judged because of how
Speaker 1: kick a footy or whatever it is which was affecting me.
Speaker 1: But at that time, I thought, if I get rid
Speaker 1: of footy, straighten my head out, go into a field
Speaker 1: where I can help people who go through the same
Speaker 1: thing that I do. And then yeah, two to three
Speaker 1: weeks of sessions of where we found ways to work
Speaker 1: around things and realizing I'm only twenty five or twenty four,
Speaker 1: whatever it was, and that my best year is there
Speaker 1: ahead of me. Yeah, I ended up getting through that,
Speaker 1: and then I set myself a goal to get back
Speaker 1: eight weeks after ripping both my hamstrings. I got back
Speaker 1: and played finals.
Speaker 2: I remember that too, and you got back quay quicker
Speaker 2: than anyone thought. But I was like, if anyone's going
Speaker 2: to do it, still I was.
Speaker 1: Still affected with my hamstrings around twelve thirteen last year,
Speaker 1: so I'm talking a whole year. So last year two
Speaker 1: nineteen was when I actually felt back to myself and
Speaker 1: I came back and played. It was eight to nine
Speaker 1: weeks after I'd done it. So should you have Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: no doubt I didn't in terms of me being at
Speaker 1: one hundred percent my absolute best, no way. But that
Speaker 1: would have been the case for the start of the
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen season, So it didn't really matter. And the
Speaker 1: best thing about it when I look back on that
Speaker 1: seat on that final series is that I still contributed.
Speaker 1: I contributed in a good way. I contributed the two
Speaker 1: wins we had. The first final was sort of my
Speaker 1: first game back. It was like playing my first game again.
Speaker 1: It was just like wha, this is quick. And then
Speaker 1: the next two finals I contributed well. I contributed us
Speaker 1: to winning and then the Grand Final. As much as
Speaker 1: I hate thinking about it, we I felt like, I,
Speaker 1: you know, contributed in a positive way.
Speaker 2: How did you cope with the Grand final loss after
Speaker 2: such a big year, because it's hard anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you think it was harder for you given everything
Speaker 2: you've been through?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I think, yeah, but I think because I'd
Speaker 1: had such a crazy, oh really crazy eight months. I'd
Speaker 1: been at the bottom of the barrel, absolutely my most
Speaker 1: vulnerable to now be playing in a Grand final after
Speaker 1: injuring myself and everyone saying, oh, you know, I won't
Speaker 1: get back to have achieved that. And this is where
Speaker 1: my thinking started to tinker and I started to look
Speaker 1: at it in a different way and not be in
Speaker 1: my anxiety self. I guess I started to think, well,
Speaker 1: you put that work in so you got back to
Speaker 1: that final. You were the one who got up and
Speaker 1: rehabbed three times a day, every single day with the physios.
Speaker 1: You were diligent, You did everything, you iced every hour.
Speaker 2: Were you're getting up in the middle of the night
Speaker 2: to all right everything still.
Speaker 1: And everything from going from playing and not wanting to
Speaker 1: play and you know, being miserable and whatever. Having that
Speaker 1: two week period of sessions with Jackie and Maxie and
Speaker 1: Bucks and Kim and icing that were my two things
Speaker 1: that I was doing and enjoying just not having to
Speaker 1: get up and train and meetings and whatever. I'd always
Speaker 1: talk about my inner circle and the people at this
Speaker 1: footy club because this is where I am eighty percent
Speaker 1: of my life is going to those people when I
Speaker 1: feel insecure or whatever it is, when I'm having my battles,
Speaker 1: and I never because we hadn't openly spoken about my battles.
Speaker 1: This is a way of me dealing with it, and
Speaker 1: this is what we figured out to be over that
Speaker 1: two week period. So randomly, I'd just be sitting in
Speaker 1: Maxie's office and Maxie would know why I was sitting there.
Speaker 1: He doesn't have to know why, because usually in someone's
Speaker 1: office you know what's going on. He knows why I'm
Speaker 1: there because something going on in my head at the time.
Speaker 1: I need reassurance. You don't have to say anything. I
Speaker 1: just know you're here, Maxi, and I get that warmth
Speaker 1: feeling that I know you just care about me, and
Speaker 1: that's what we care about. That is what I was
Speaker 1: doing in that eight to ten week block when I
Speaker 1: got back and then going into footy it was another thing.
Speaker 1: When I got back to playing, it was the same thing,
Speaker 1: except my focus on was was on playing and having
Speaker 1: that inner circle.
Speaker 2: So you lose the Grand Final, How did you feel
Speaker 2: that day and how did that impact?
Speaker 1: I was? Yeah, I was, I was I was shattered,
Speaker 1: absolutely shattered. There was only one reason I got back
Speaker 1: to play, and that was to win the Grand Final.
Speaker 1: And considering the fairy tale that we sort of had
Speaker 1: up until then, no one picked us, especially the week before.
Speaker 1: I don't even think we like, you know, Richmond Richmond,
Speaker 1: no no credits, no discredit to us, Richmond just playing
Speaker 1: that good. Yeah, it was so hard to beat at
Speaker 1: the mcg everything.
Speaker 2: And to Mason Cox, yeah, and then yeah.
Speaker 1: And then so then to play the way we did,
Speaker 1: which I knew we had in us. I just felt like,
Speaker 1: this is ours to lose. And then we five goals
Speaker 1: to nothing a quarter time or pretty much, and I
Speaker 1: guess to lose the way that we lost, you'd probably
Speaker 1: I was shattered, Believe me. I was ball in my
Speaker 1: eyes out I seeing Kim, I broke down all my friends.
Speaker 1: But I wasn't as shadowed as what you'd actually think
Speaker 1: because of everything I'd gone through. And I remember seeing
Speaker 1: Travi Vaco in the rooms when I was with Kim,
Speaker 1: and I was with how his wife too, Kalia, and
Speaker 1: we were just hugging and embracing and crying. I remember
Speaker 1: looking over to travn trav I had probably the toughest
Speaker 1: four weeks of his life with his sister and her
Speaker 1: name was on his arm, and I just remember he
Speaker 1: hadn't showed emotion for the whole time of the incident
Speaker 1: happening with his sister. To that point, I hadn't seen
Speaker 1: him cry once. You know, my heart was going out
Speaker 1: to him all the time because I couldn't imagine what
Speaker 1: that would be like for me. And I remember turning
Speaker 1: to him and he was inconsolable, like he was miserable.
Speaker 1: He was he was Oh, it was just yeah, so heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, it's the emotions of everything. It's
Speaker 1: not the Grand Final. I thought to myself at that time, Wow,
Speaker 1: I'm upset because I lost the Grand Final where Travis
Speaker 1: is over there and he lost someone and that really
Speaker 1: helped me. It really helped me, and it just helped me.
Speaker 1: And I moved on pretty quickly. I just you know,
Speaker 1: we had our meeting and yeah, and then you got
Speaker 1: to move on. That's the thing. You got to move on.
Speaker 1: And that's what happened. That's what happened. And I can't
Speaker 1: watch that final, like I can't wash that Grand Final,
Speaker 1: and I hate it and I hate thinking about it.
Speaker 1: And I see highlights and obviously see dom she kicking
Speaker 1: the goal, which is incredible, hurry out incredible, and I
Speaker 1: applaud him for doing that, but well for kicking it,
Speaker 1: because good on him. But I just can't watch it.
Speaker 1: And but but I don't live with it. I don't,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think what if this was if that,
Speaker 1: I don't it is what it is. I've gone through
Speaker 1: too much to dwell on that. I don't care. And
Speaker 1: I'm at a stage now, like I said, because I've
Speaker 1: cried earlier about my baby. My whole reason for living
Speaker 1: now is Kim and my baby. That's it. I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm in the best state of my mind that
Speaker 1: I've ever been in. In terms of my football. I
Speaker 1: love coming in training, I love seeing the guys. I'm
Speaker 1: at an age where physically my next three to four
Speaker 1: years are probably my prime years. Yeah, I'm just in
Speaker 1: terms of footing, I'm just carefree, like the way I
Speaker 1: should be.
Speaker 2: Were you diagnosed with something with the psych with Jackie.
Speaker 1: I've been diagnosed with OCD, not with Jackie. That was
Speaker 1: with earlier. Got out of that and then yeah, sort
Speaker 1: of depression in a way. Yeah, yeah, And I was
Speaker 1: on tablets things to help me with my depression. And yeah,
Speaker 1: diagnosed pretty much with having a bit of depression.
Speaker 2: When you heard that word, how did you feel? Because
Speaker 2: some people feel relieved and some people feel labeled.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I wasn't labeled. I didn't fee labeled because
Speaker 1: I sort of knew it. I sort of knew it.
Speaker 1: I just would deny it because you know, you don't
Speaker 1: really want to be diagnosed with depression, because yeah, you
Speaker 1: just for so many things. We've got one life to leave.
Speaker 1: It only be known as having depression. But I knew that,
Speaker 1: and I probably needed that. I needed that to know
Speaker 1: where I was at in my life, to know that
Speaker 1: this isn't a healthy lifestyle. This isn't the way you
Speaker 1: should be living. It's not healthy for relationships that you
Speaker 1: want to build. You can't keep putting Kim through this.
Speaker 1: You know, this circle that you're going through. You have
Speaker 1: your days, are you good and then you're bad? Turn
Speaker 1: it into something that you can help other people with.
Speaker 1: You know, after a period of time where I'd see
Speaker 1: Jackie every twice every week, then it got to a
Speaker 1: point where I'd I'd just love to help people. You know.
Speaker 1: I did a thing last year leading into the finals,
Speaker 1: one of my school friends, Brandon, messaged me on Facebook.
Speaker 1: I hadn't spoken to him at ages, but with one
Speaker 1: of those with one of those guys, you when we
Speaker 1: see each other, it's just like the old days. Asked
Speaker 1: me to come and speak to three hundred people at
Speaker 1: a factory about mental illness and depression and how it
Speaker 1: affects everyone, not only sports people, and it was the
Speaker 1: best thing I've ever done. Like it was great. I
Speaker 1: loved it. I loved being able to talk about it.
Speaker 1: I felt like they got so much out of it.
Speaker 1: I had, you know, most of them come up and
Speaker 1: personally thank me and appreciate me coming out and talking
Speaker 1: about things that I'd gone through. But everything that I'd
Speaker 1: spoken about, I I never meant it to intentionally get
Speaker 1: people to, you know, think poor Adam or It was
Speaker 1: never any of that. It was never any of that.
Speaker 1: It was just I felt like I had the platform
Speaker 1: with my documentary that was coming out on the footag
Speaker 1: Club and me being in it, being on AFL three sixty,
Speaker 1: which I know he's watched by a lot of people
Speaker 1: and especially footy fans, and wanting the broader public. I
Speaker 1: guess who are outside Collingwood because a lot of Collingwood
Speaker 1: fans you know know what I'm like because I talked
Speaker 1: to him a lot of training. Whatever. It is the
Speaker 1: ones outside to see what we go through, to come
Speaker 1: into my world a little bit and see what I'm like.
Speaker 1: You know, the things we battle as athletes, but it's
Speaker 1: not just athletes, it's it's everyone. Everyone goes through their
Speaker 1: own battles. And yeah, it's been incredible, it's been incredible.
Speaker 1: I still get messages to this day, you know, fan
Speaker 1: mail and whatever. It is about being able to come
Speaker 1: out and talk about things, and yeah, it's at a
Speaker 1: point where it just should still be pushed, should still
Speaker 1: be pushed.
Speaker 2: It impacted your footy. You said you wanted to retire.
Speaker 2: Did it impact you and your life? Did you ever
Speaker 2: think that deeply about it in the sense of was
Speaker 2: it deeper than.
Speaker 1: For Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know retiring would be easy
Speaker 1: in terms of my life. Yeah, I know what you
Speaker 1: mean outside of footy. Yet you know, I'd never ever
Speaker 1: think about I would never ever harm myself or think
Speaker 1: about being brutally honest taking my own life. I'd never
Speaker 1: do anything of that because I feel like that is
Speaker 1: a selfish way to go about it, the amount of
Speaker 1: people that I would be hurting, the amount of people
Speaker 1: who would just die knowing that I wasn't here anymore.
Speaker 1: So I never ever thought that way, but I felt
Speaker 1: I did feel like the path that I'm going down
Speaker 1: could potentially lead to something like that. But I never
Speaker 1: thought about if you know what I mean, Like, I
Speaker 1: don't mean I.
Speaker 2: Ever thought of suicidal thoughts, but I.
Speaker 1: Felt what I was going through potentially, if I keep
Speaker 1: going down this path, it's going to be far worse
Speaker 1: than just retiring, you know. I might like got to
Speaker 1: a point where like I wanted to leave the state,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't want to be in the state. I
Speaker 1: wanted to leave the country because I felt like, you know,
Speaker 1: just be easier, just be easier. So, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: really it was really hard at times. It was really
Speaker 1: hard to try and live. I felt like I was
Speaker 1: living two lives. I was coming and acting a fraud
Speaker 1: in front of my teammates, telling him I was all
Speaker 1: good and all okay, but deep down it wasn't.
Speaker 2: And you've had a mate who, Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1: I did. One of my mates in school, Yeah, Ray,
Speaker 1: Ray Irdle. He back in two thousand and fourteen or thirteen.
Speaker 1: I think it was fourteen. Yeah, I was in Syny
Speaker 1: at the time, and my best mate at the time, Peter,
Speaker 1: called me and told me that Ray had, you know,
Speaker 1: taken his own life. So he was the most happiest,
Speaker 1: fun loving person, like he was just a great human being.
Speaker 1: He had a daughter, she was only one or two,
Speaker 1: and he had his own battles and no one's seen
Speaker 1: it coming. And it happened. Yeah, it happened, and I
Speaker 1: know it affects people to this day. It affects you
Speaker 1: know that that guy I mentioned earlier, Brandon who I
Speaker 1: guest spoke for, that was his best friend Ray, and
Speaker 1: we were chatting about it when I seen him for
Speaker 1: about two to three hours. I was there for about
Speaker 1: three hours. I spoke for forty five minutes, and I
Speaker 1: spoke to Brandon for about another two hours, talking about
Speaker 1: life and Ray. And it's just still hard to believe,
Speaker 1: because you know, it's something that he's It's something that
Speaker 1: in the world and the society that we live in,
Speaker 1: it is known and people are genuinely trying to do
Speaker 1: things about it, and you just want to, you know,
Speaker 1: you just wish you could say if only, like if
Speaker 1: only you know, if only he could have been there,
Speaker 1: and I told him, it's all good, it's all okay,
Speaker 1: Like it's not you know, it's it's not as bad
Speaker 1: as you as it seems. It's it's okay. You know,
Speaker 1: if you need help, there's plenty of support lines. There's
Speaker 1: so many people that care about you. Like it is hard,
Speaker 1: it's hard to think about it. It's hard to fathom
Speaker 1: that that's how you know, he was taken from this world.
Speaker 1: It was him doing it himself, like it he should
Speaker 1: be a twenty seven year old man now with his
Speaker 1: you know, daughter and life. Yeah, so it's hard. It
Speaker 1: is hard to think about that and and to be honest,
Speaker 1: to be honest, when when I was thinking about, you know,
Speaker 1: me being at my worst, having that in my mind
Speaker 1: with Ray Irdle and knowing what had happened with Ray
Speaker 1: and what he'd obviously done, I'm so grateful that it
Speaker 1: never went down that path. I'm just grateful for it
Speaker 1: because I've seen I see I know for a fact,
Speaker 1: I see the hurt that has been left on his
Speaker 1: best friend Brandon, and you know, his daughter that's not
Speaker 1: going to that you know, doesn't see him. I know
Speaker 1: that if that were to go down the path of
Speaker 1: if I would ever go down that path, which I
Speaker 1: never would, thank god, I never thought about it. I
Speaker 1: just knew there'd be so many, so many people out
Speaker 1: there that would just hurt and break. And yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: just glad. Yeah, I'm just grateful, grateful for the for
Speaker 1: the people now. I'm grateful for the circle that I have,
Speaker 1: the circle of friends and family that I have now. Grateful.
Speaker 2: So if you're somebody listening to this and you're feeling,
Speaker 2: you can you know they can relate to how you're feeling.
Speaker 2: What do you say to those people now? Because it's
Speaker 2: a lot for you to take on as well, those
Speaker 2: people coming to you and sharing their own stories.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that though.
Speaker 2: It's amazing, but it's also a lot for one person
Speaker 2: to take on. What do you say to all?
Speaker 1: I try and think about what my ways of how
Speaker 1: I do with it. And one you've got to recognize
Speaker 1: it and not be in denial with your own feelings
Speaker 1: and your own emotions, and don't be the nineteen fifty sixty, seventies, eighties,
Speaker 1: even nineties, even two thousand's man because a lot of
Speaker 1: these issues with men, because we're meant to be big
Speaker 1: marcho men you know who have no feelings. She'll be
Speaker 1: right is the saying she'll be right. It's fine. You
Speaker 1: know you got someone has passed away in your family,
Speaker 1: Oh shul be right, it's fine. Or you could get
Speaker 1: sacked at your job. It's fine. I'll deal with that.
Speaker 1: Whatever it is, that should never be the resolution in
Speaker 1: your head. She'll be right. Like what I just said,
Speaker 1: you've got to acknowledge it. And once you acknowledge it,
Speaker 1: talk to someone who It doesn't matter who it is.
Speaker 1: Talk to someone. You're going to have someone out there
Speaker 1: who is going to want to listen, and in this case,
Speaker 1: for me, it was Kim and Jackie. So talk to
Speaker 1: someone and whatever it is, you don't have to say
Speaker 1: all your problems in one little hit it over. You
Speaker 1: get a regular coffee catch up or whatever.
Speaker 2: It is just the overwhelming thing for a lot of people,
Speaker 2: isn't It's like where do I star hunt?
Speaker 1: Exactly? They bottle it up and when you say something,
Speaker 1: it's just this big explosion and it comes out, but
Speaker 1: it comes out in different ways. And for me it
Speaker 1: was balling my eyes out in the pool. For ray Rdle,
Speaker 1: it was taking his own life, like it comes out
Speaker 1: in different ways where it should just be recognizing it,
Speaker 1: understanding that you're dealing with something here. You may not
Speaker 1: know what it is, but there's something there. You're not right,
Speaker 1: you don't feel good within yourself, Go and talk to someone.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't have to be a professional. Go to
Speaker 1: someone that you care and love and know that cares
Speaker 1: about you. And everyone in this world would have someone
Speaker 1: like that. Go to them and talk to him and
Speaker 1: then whatever it is, if you feel great after that,
Speaker 1: or if you feel like you need further advice or
Speaker 1: whatever it is, find them steps to do that. Go
Speaker 1: to someone. If you want to go to someone professionally,
Speaker 1: go and do that. I did that with Jackie. And
Speaker 1: there's a reason why they study for years to become
Speaker 1: psychologists and whatnot, because they help people like this. I
Speaker 1: think the overriding message that I got out of all
Speaker 1: this and that I continue to do to this day,
Speaker 1: because I'm always going to live with anxiety. It's just me,
Speaker 1: that's what I am. But for me, the messages it's
Speaker 1: never as bad as it seems, and it never should
Speaker 1: be as bad as it seems. You're always going to
Speaker 1: think the absolute worst of the worst. That's the way
Speaker 1: human beings are wide, it's the way we're wired. But
Speaker 1: it never is. And as soon as you talk to
Speaker 1: someone and get a little thing off your chest, you
Speaker 1: just feel that little bit more relief and you feel
Speaker 1: like the stresses off your shoulders and you feel a
Speaker 1: little bit more happy and you feel comfortable. And then
Speaker 1: you talk again, a little bit more as off you
Speaker 1: and you just gradually take step by step. It's just
Speaker 1: it's never as bad as it seems, never as bad
Speaker 1: as it seems.
Speaker 2: Hey, finally, you so just spoke. You grew up with
Speaker 2: not a lot. Now that you have security, you have footy,
Speaker 2: and you've got a bit of financial success and career success.
Speaker 2: What kind of things have you done for your mum
Speaker 2: and your family now? And you smile when I ask
Speaker 2: you that question.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, my mum doesn't live in a ministry house anymore.
Speaker 1: So one of my goals, I'll buy my mama house
Speaker 1: when it's just her and my stepdad. So when my
Speaker 1: younger brother and sister are, when they're done with living
Speaker 1: at home and branching off into their own world because
Speaker 1: they're living at home still, I'm going to buy my
Speaker 1: mama house, but as soon as I could, I got
Speaker 1: them out of the ministry house. Randomly, I'll just go
Speaker 1: to the coals and buy, you know, five hundred dollars
Speaker 1: worth of groceries and just drop them off to Mum.
Speaker 1: I get my emotional side and my feminine side from
Speaker 1: my Mum. I'll cry at the drop of her hat.
Speaker 1: Come into the see my baby when she's born. I'll
Speaker 1: be ball in my eyes out. But Mom cries whenever
Speaker 1: I do anything like that. So just anything she needs
Speaker 1: and she needs.
Speaker 2: It must be nice to see that reaction though from her,
Speaker 2: because you've done.
Speaker 1: Oh. The best thing is Mum is never she never
Speaker 1: asks for anything. She never would. She never asks and
Speaker 1: the only time she'd ever ask for anything is when
Speaker 1: they are in it. Like I'm talking probably life and death,
Speaker 1: desperate need. Other than that, never asks, which is the
Speaker 1: best thing about Mum. So Mum knows if she ever
Speaker 1: needs anything, and I'm there, I'll give her anything she wants,
Speaker 1: anything she wants, as long as she's happy and my
Speaker 1: family's happy. But yeah, we're good now, we're good now.
Speaker 2: I hope you don't mind me saying this, but I
Speaker 2: think you're going to be a wonderful dad.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. I can't wait. It's the Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be the greatest. It's gonna be the greatest.
Speaker 1: I can't wait. She's already the most spoilt girl in
Speaker 1: the world, and I've got a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of my best friends are very protective of me, so
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see what they're all like with her.
Speaker 1: So she's going to be, Yeah, the most loved human
Speaker 1: being in the world.
Speaker 2: Thank you for being so honest and open. People listening
Speaker 2: to this, it's it's definitely going to help them. And
Speaker 2: like I said, I've always enjoyed interviewing you over the years,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I admire you even more so.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks to appreciate it time.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking, and
Speaker 2: once again a big thank you to Adam Chalaw absolute superstar.
Speaker 2: If you're struggling to make sure you ask for help,
Speaker 2: head to Lifeline dot org dot au or Beyond Blue
Speaker 2: or there are plenty of others out there as well.
Speaker 2: Please just ask for some help. If you want to
Speaker 2: get involved in this podcast at Ordinarily Underscore Speaking on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Thanks again.
Speaker 3: Us after send me let you want me Tho