Speaker 1: Hello. My name is Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud
Speaker 1: Order Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before
Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through.
Speaker 1: As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
Speaker 1: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
Speaker 1: and lasting impactful tomorrow. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to another episode of Business Bible. If
Speaker 3: you've been thinking of starting a side hustle or a
Speaker 3: small business, you are definitely in the right place. I'm
Speaker 3: Victoria Devine, an ex financial advisor who has a background
Speaker 3: in psychology and I currently run several successful businesses. As always,
Speaker 3: I am joined by my beautiful friend and one of
Speaker 3: the hardest working side hustlers I know, Miss jesscar Rici. No,
Speaker 3: good morning. I am excited for today's episode.
Speaker 4: Me too.
Speaker 5: I feel like we haven't done a Business Bible weapon
Speaker 5: a little bit, so I always get excited for them,
Speaker 5: and I feel like today's topic feels like it's really straightforward,
Speaker 5: but it's one of those things that's easier said than done.
Speaker 3: You go, oh, really just.
Speaker 4: Reach more people. Okay, how do you do that?
Speaker 3: Oh, marketing, Jessica, that's the episode.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like one of those that's it. It's like
Speaker 5: one of those buzzwords that people that are around, like marketing,
Speaker 5: reach what people, blah blah blah. But today we're going
Speaker 5: to talk about how to actually do.
Speaker 3: It, how to actually reach more customers for your business.
Speaker 3: And then after the break, we're going to be exploring
Speaker 3: how to use the five five five rule to create
Speaker 3: a grow your network. But let's talk about the things
Speaker 3: that we think you should know to expand your customer base.
Speaker 3: Jess your bloody smart. At the end of the day,
Speaker 3: I want to know where you're coming from. Where do
Speaker 3: you think we should be starting.
Speaker 5: Surely we've understanding our audience, right, our customer.
Speaker 3: We talk about that all the time. But she's on
Speaker 3: the money, right, Like we have this avatar of who
Speaker 3: our consumer is, Like we know that they aren't in
Speaker 3: their sixties, but we have people in their sixties who
Speaker 3: engage in our content. So it's not necessarily about excluding people,
Speaker 3: but rather identifying who your perfect person is. Like in
Speaker 3: a perfect world, we've basically got Jess, and she's a
Speaker 3: she's on the money poster a child right, Like she's hah,
Speaker 3: in her thirties. That's new, that's fresh, it's not going
Speaker 3: to get all fun. But like you're in your early thirties,
Speaker 3: you've just turned thirty and you want to create financial freedom.
Speaker 3: Like at the end of the day, that is that
Speaker 3: she's on the money target audience. And so it's really
Speaker 3: good for us to have an idea of who that is,
Speaker 3: but also an idea of who actually engages with our content,
Speaker 3: because sometimes your ideal consumer ends up not being the
Speaker 3: person that engages with your content. And while that can
Speaker 3: be really confusing, understanding who is actually engaging with your
Speaker 3: content or purchasing your product, not your ideal is going
Speaker 3: to help you sell more. It's going to help turbocharge
Speaker 3: your business. So I guess, let's go through a few
Speaker 3: more nuanced steps. So, Jess, here are a few I
Speaker 3: guess steps that we could take to actually identify our
Speaker 3: target audience instead of like you know, turning up at
Speaker 3: their house and being like, so you bought my candle holder?
Speaker 3: What was your name? How do you? How does this work?
Speaker 3: So we're going to do some market research. We could
Speaker 3: use tools like surveys, we could use interviews, we could
Speaker 3: do a few focus groups, bring together a couple of
Speaker 3: your consumers to gather information about what growing your audience
Speaker 3: might look like. Analyze your competitors. I always say on
Speaker 3: the show, like it's to have blinkers on and not
Speaker 3: actually get analysis paralysis or overwhelmed by looking at your competition.
Speaker 3: But good business owners are able to pragmatically analyze their
Speaker 3: competitors to see what their consumers are liking. I prefer
Speaker 3: to learn from somebody else's mistakes, yess instead of making
Speaker 3: my own. And then we can use tools like Google
Speaker 3: Analytics to kind of track and understand the demographics of
Speaker 3: the visitors that are coming to your website, because, as
Speaker 3: I said before, sometimes you've got a target audience and
Speaker 3: you think this product is going to be perfect for Jessica,
Speaker 3: It's going to be fantastic, and then you find that
Speaker 3: Craig's purchasing it, yeah, and we need to understand why
Speaker 3: that's happening. Not necessarily to stop it, but to go, Okay, well,
Speaker 3: actually the product I thought would appeal to Jess, she's
Speaker 3: not purchasing it. One, I want to know why, But two,
Speaker 3: why is Craig like this? Yeah, so that we can
Speaker 3: actually go down the route of expanding our customer base
Speaker 3: and ultimately getting more sales and strengthening our business.
Speaker 4: What would you look at next after that?
Speaker 3: I would say, really optimizing your online presence. I was
Speaker 3: about to say social presence. But it's not just social media, right,
Speaker 3: Like it's your website, it is your social media. It's
Speaker 3: kind of everything that could live on the internet.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 3: So the first thing that I would do is actually
Speaker 3: make sure that you have a user friendly website. So
Speaker 3: many of us overlook this. We just like chuck a
Speaker 3: page up and think that that's more than enough because
Speaker 3: maybe you're not selling a product, maybe you're an influencer.
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, if I just have a website, And
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know, Jess, if you're one your
Speaker 3: website it's a work in progress. I know you've been
Speaker 3: working on it. I was like, is that a thing?
Speaker 5: Not yet?
Speaker 3: I can't say. I google Jesse Ricci all that often
Speaker 3: that seems reasonable weir, but I mean maybe I should.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'll dig up a little bit of dirt that
Speaker 3: I could use. But what we want to do is
Speaker 3: make sure that we have a user friendly, informative, and
Speaker 3: optimized website, and that doesn't have to cost us lots.
Speaker 3: Like Jess, we have Squarespace and both you and I
Speaker 3: can log into the back end of it. We are
Speaker 3: not professionals by any stretch of the imagination, and we
Speaker 3: can manage the entirety of the shig's on the Money website.
Speaker 3: But what having a good website does is one it's
Speaker 3: social validation. So before I engage with any product, I'm
Speaker 3: going to snoop them. I'm going to go online and
Speaker 3: have a look at who they are and what they
Speaker 3: do to make sure that I know they're legit. Like
Speaker 3: if I'm going to buy a product from you, and
Speaker 3: then I go to your website and it says holding page,
Speaker 3: I'm going to be like, is this a legit company?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: Has it shut down? Giving? Not trustworthy?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: So we essentially just want to be as trustworthy as possible.
Speaker 3: Does that mean you need the biggest, brightest, shiniest logo. No, No,
Speaker 3: we just need to be really clear in our messaging.
Speaker 3: The next thing I would say is search engine optimization.
Speaker 3: So if people are searching you and cannot find you,
Speaker 3: you are missing out on potential customers. And search engine
Speaker 3: optimization can seem really confusing, but ultimately search engine optimization
Speaker 3: works by being able to pull keywords from your website
Speaker 3: and put them into search engine platform. So like if
Speaker 3: someone google's Jessica Ricci, we want your website coming up,
Speaker 3: that means that to come up, we want to make
Speaker 3: sure that the words Jessica Richie are all over your website.
Speaker 3: So they're not just in the username, they're in the heading,
Speaker 3: They're in the text of the website. And the same
Speaker 3: goes for like let's say jess always use the example
Speaker 3: of candles, I think because I think that, in my
Speaker 3: head is the quintessential.
Speaker 4: Side hustle or small perfect example.
Speaker 3: It's a perfect example. Right, Like let's say you sell candles, right,
Speaker 3: you would want to make sure that your website has
Speaker 3: keywords candles. You would want to make sure that all
Speaker 3: of the keywords that are important to you are used
Speaker 3: on your website. So if Melbourne made is important, or
Speaker 3: Australian made is important, or you know, making sure that
Speaker 3: you've got candles, maybe you do wax melts. In addition,
Speaker 3: making sure that you're talking about all of these things
Speaker 3: in the text of your website is really important, not
Speaker 3: just whacking the product up, because that's where Google pulls
Speaker 3: its information from. It pulls it from the text on
Speaker 3: your web site. So there's obviously a lot more complex
Speaker 3: things you can do around search engine optimization, but I
Speaker 3: would start there, and then social media. Jess, you're the
Speaker 3: queen of social media. At the end of the day,
Speaker 3: I think that we can all agree that maintaining consistency
Speaker 3: online is really important. If you're a business and you're
Speaker 3: planning on selling stuff and then a customer goes to
Speaker 3: your Instagram and sees you haven't posted in twelve months,
Speaker 3: they might think that you're no longer in operation. So
Speaker 3: we need to be consistent. But also we need to
Speaker 3: make sure that we are active and engaging. So where
Speaker 3: is your target audience, who are they following, what are
Speaker 3: they doing? Are you actually engaging with other profiles that
Speaker 3: is going to get you some visibility? And then content marketing,
Speaker 3: so what are you putting up on your website? Are
Speaker 3: you regularly updating a blog if that's necessary, are you
Speaker 3: addressing the needs and the interests of your consumer so
Speaker 3: that you can actually draw them into your product. I
Speaker 3: talk a lot often about establishing yourself in the industry
Speaker 3: as a leader, right, So when I'm doing that, it
Speaker 3: means that I'm writing a lot of content and putting
Speaker 3: a lot on our website and our blog that is
Speaker 3: free for people to consume, because I want to draw
Speaker 3: them in. I want them to see me as somebody
Speaker 3: who knows their stuff, who knows what she's talking about,
Speaker 3: not necessarily only when I'm getting paid for it, because
Speaker 3: if you're only engaging in paid content, well it's going
Speaker 3: to be few and far between, especially at the start.
Speaker 4: Yeah, where's the value for people?
Speaker 3: Exactly?
Speaker 5: It's interesting actually because those three link together really closely,
Speaker 5: Like azeo is such a great skill. And I was
Speaker 5: reading an article recently about how TikTok specifically, but social
Speaker 5: media more broadly, are becoming their own search engines, Like
Speaker 5: people are turning to TikTok instead of going to Google.
Speaker 5: How do I fix my sink? How do I fix
Speaker 5: my tap? People are plugging those same things into TikTok
Speaker 5: or into Instagram. I can look at my Yeah, they're
Speaker 5: looking to consume shorter form media, or they're looking for
Speaker 5: visual demo straation, maybe they're looking on YouTube or something
Speaker 5: like that. And so it's really interesting how those same
Speaker 5: SEO skills that historically you would have only applied to
Speaker 5: your website or to your blog or whatever that was,
Speaker 5: and now branching out to apply to your socials as well.
Speaker 5: And so once you kind of learn that skill, you
Speaker 5: really can apply it in many different places that then
Speaker 5: will help boost the visibility of that social and hopefully
Speaker 5: help grow your reach there too. So it's it's really interesting.
Speaker 3: I know that SEO.
Speaker 5: Particularly is something that a lot of people go, oh,
Speaker 5: that seems hard, and like not to say that it's not, but.
Speaker 3: Like it doesn't have to be hard, yeah, Like it
Speaker 3: can be very simple. And I think that when we're
Speaker 3: you know, creating content like this, you're not looking for
Speaker 3: the super technical side of SEO. Yeah, probably, like how
Speaker 3: do I optimize my website myself? How do I put
Speaker 3: myself and my business in the best possible position. A
Speaker 3: company that's doing this really well actually is you know
Speaker 3: my friend Mia who has Moxi. So Moxi are period
Speaker 3: care products, but if you go to their tiktop. They
Speaker 3: are popping off with the educational content, which ultimately drives
Speaker 3: their consumer back to their product, right. Yeah, So if
Speaker 3: you go to their TikTok you will notice that they're
Speaker 3: not really talking about their product at all. They're talking
Speaker 3: about period care. They're talking about how you use different products,
Speaker 3: the different options on the market. They're talking about, you know,
Speaker 3: all of those taboo things that consumers are pervy about.
Speaker 3: But then it gets you connected with the brand. And
Speaker 3: I think that we can learn a lot from them
Speaker 3: because they've nearly got a million followers.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: Who who would have thought that a tampon company can
Speaker 3: get a million folck? But she's doing it and absolutely
Speaker 3: killing it. So I think that having good examples is
Speaker 3: also really helpful because when you start to dive into them,
Speaker 3: you realize they're not just jumping on saying, hey I
Speaker 3: sell this candle, look at it again, look at it again.
Speaker 3: That's not what they're doing. They're kind of creating the
Speaker 3: lifestyle around it so that you kind of then see
Speaker 3: their product as a way to engage with their platform. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I think that working backwards that way is really powerful.
Speaker 3: And I mean just every time I'm buying something in
Speaker 3: the moment I'm looking it up on TikTok.
Speaker 4: First, Yeah, you're looking for those reasons.
Speaker 5: That's how you're reaching more people, and those platforms are
Speaker 5: pushing you out to broader audiences, to new eyeballs. And
Speaker 5: if the content's engaging and exciting, like you were saying,
Speaker 5: Moxie is, people go oh like, maybe I'll look into
Speaker 5: that a little more.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'll keep starting a little try exactly. And then
Speaker 3: I guess we could segue into welles, should we be
Speaker 3: paying for advertising? What are your thoughts on this? Because
Speaker 3: we run a lot of partnerships, but we've never really
Speaker 3: done paid advertising. At what point do we do we
Speaker 3: do that?
Speaker 5: I think we got burned in the early days fun
Speaker 5: little learning for everybody. And I was listening to m
Speaker 5: Loosen talk about this, she had the same problem. So
Speaker 5: it seems like it's a reoccurring thing. But there are
Speaker 5: many agencies out there, and I don't want to paint
Speaker 5: all agencies with the same brush, but there are many
Speaker 5: agencies out there that will say, hey, we'll run your
Speaker 5: paid ads for you. You can spend two thousand dollars
Speaker 5: and turn it into aundred thousand dollars and you see
Speaker 5: all of these great success stories, and we tried in
Speaker 5: the really early days of She's on the Money idea.
Speaker 3: Okay, you guys seem legit. I obviously would like to
Speaker 3: grow my podcast fantastic and how'd that go for us?
Speaker 5: Not great, not to be crash, but we kind of
Speaker 5: pissed the money down the drain.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we did, and they did nothing. Do you remember
Speaker 3: this This is probably juicy goss. We won't name names,
Speaker 3: but do you remember how we were like, already not
Speaker 3: happy with them, We had seen absolutely no conversion. And
Speaker 3: then one of my friends messaged me and said, oh
Speaker 3: my gosh, could you please tell me about your experience
Speaker 3: with x y Z marketing agency because you guys are
Speaker 3: front and center of their media pitch pack. And I
Speaker 3: was like, ah, this is very awkward.
Speaker 5: Yeah, extremely uncomfortable, and not to say that paid advertising
Speaker 5: doesn't work. So definitely a time and a place, But
Speaker 5: I think, particularly for small business, there is so much
Speaker 5: value in learning to do it yourself.
Speaker 3: And I guess that's a good example of how I
Speaker 3: didn't know what I didn't know. And I think when
Speaker 3: somebody comes in and says, look, we can help you
Speaker 3: do X Y and z. I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: that's exactly what I want. And at that point in business,
Speaker 3: it was a massive cost for us, and we invested
Speaker 3: this money and hoped to get a return and we didn't,
Speaker 3: and it was bullshit, and.
Speaker 5: We were locked in on a retainer, so we were
Speaker 5: stuck there for a couple of months exactly.
Speaker 3: And then when we look back, I'm like, Jess, you
Speaker 3: and I could have learned so much online. We could
Speaker 3: have gone to YouTube and worked out how to do
Speaker 3: our own paid ads. We could have worked out whether
Speaker 3: we even wanted to do that, and ultimately we decided
Speaker 3: to do that at a time in our business that
Speaker 3: didn't make a lot of sense, Like had we done
Speaker 3: it now. And at the moment I'm trying to work
Speaker 3: out paid advertising, I'm looking at how to do Facebook ads,
Speaker 3: how to do Instagram ads, because I'm about to come
Speaker 3: out with a new course, and then after that course
Speaker 3: comes out, and another one's coming out, and like, hopefully
Speaker 3: it'll just keep rolling from there. But paid advertising has
Speaker 3: its place, but at the time I was trying it,
Speaker 3: it didn't make a lot of sense. So I think
Speaker 3: this is a good lesson in going, well, actually, how
Speaker 3: does this fit into my business. And if I attract
Speaker 3: a whole heap of customers, can I look after them?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: But can I actually service these people if they were
Speaker 3: to come in? So jess moving on from I guess
Speaker 3: paid ads because we could do a lot of conversation
Speaker 3: and maybe we do a whole episode on the different
Speaker 3: types of advertising. But let's talk about partnerships because this
Speaker 3: is a thousand percent your topic. Because what's your official
Speaker 3: job title, partnership manager. Oh wow, okay, so we've got
Speaker 3: the expert here, But talk to me about partnering with
Speaker 3: other businesses. At what point should we be considering it?
Speaker 3: At what point should we be pushing back and not
Speaker 3: doing free collaborations? Like what does that look like?
Speaker 5: I think that partnerships, especially in the early days of
Speaker 5: your business, can be really beneficial because we've spoken before
Speaker 5: about finding people who are going through similar experiences to
Speaker 5: you as a small business owner or a startup owner.
Speaker 5: And I think collaborating with other businesses that can be
Speaker 5: a really good way to connect with people. And so
Speaker 5: I think back in the day, I remember lots of
Speaker 5: small brands would come together and maybe do like a
Speaker 5: giveaway on Instagram, and you know, follow all of the
Speaker 5: pages in the giveaway, and while you know, it's a
Speaker 5: whole seperate discussion about whether or not that type of
Speaker 5: giveaway is the best way of reaching new people. Working
Speaker 5: with other brands I think can help you gain a
Speaker 5: level of exposure to an aligned audience, to a similar customer.
Speaker 5: You know, if you're selling candles and you work with
Speaker 5: someone who sells I musks, I must exactly like self
Speaker 5: care stuff, you go probably a similar target market. So
Speaker 5: if you work together on a giveaway, or if you go, hey,
Speaker 5: can we create a co branded product or.
Speaker 3: Find it just like a gift pack between the tour.
Speaker 5: Exactly like, there are lots of things that you can
Speaker 5: explore that I think are really good, but you need
Speaker 5: to make sure that it's beneficial on both sides. And
Speaker 5: so if you're a startup business and you've got, you know,
Speaker 5: your candle that you really love, and you go to
Speaker 5: Glasshouse Candles and you go, hey, can we elaborate together,
Speaker 5: the benefit may not be there for them. And I
Speaker 5: think sometimes people go, oh, but I want to work
Speaker 5: with other people. I want to partner up, But there
Speaker 5: needs to be value for both of you. Because for
Speaker 5: the small business you go oh, Glasshouse candles, Like they're selling.
Speaker 3: To my idea get absolute value.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's awesome for me.
Speaker 5: If we can find a way to work together, that
Speaker 5: would be great. But you then have to explain to
Speaker 5: the other company, in this case Glasshouse, why should they
Speaker 5: work with you, Like, do you have a unique product
Speaker 5: that you've created, that you've patented the technology and you're
Speaker 5: the only person doing it, and you know, they can
Speaker 5: be ahead of the curve if they work with you
Speaker 5: and you create something together, or you know, do you
Speaker 5: work with a particular artist and you can co brand,
Speaker 5: you know, something on their candles. But if there's no
Speaker 5: value there for them, they're not going to want to
Speaker 5: do it, and it sounds harsh.
Speaker 3: And even if they agree to it, they might not
Speaker 3: put the time and energy and effort into it that
Speaker 3: you're anticipating. So the energy input from you could be
Speaker 3: incredibly high. And then they might just tag you in
Speaker 3: one Instagram story and you'll be like, wait, what, Like
Speaker 3: that's not what I expected. The other thing you touched
Speaker 3: on before was like the word collaboration, and I think
Speaker 3: they're in small business. We talk about collaborating all the time,
Speaker 3: but often as a small business, you kind of get
Speaker 3: so worried that they're actually competition, Like you might see
Speaker 3: other people in your space doing better, or other people
Speaker 3: in your space that you think are doing better, or
Speaker 3: even just other people around you, and instead of collaborating
Speaker 3: and being I guess you could say really open, you're
Speaker 3: really insular and you're like, no, I don't want anything
Speaker 3: to do with them because you know they're my competition,
Speaker 3: and you know their sole product might be imasks, but
Speaker 3: they sell a candle, so they're cut, like I can't
Speaker 3: talk to them at all. And I think we need
Speaker 3: to be open to embracing the idea of collaboration over competition,
Speaker 3: because competition puts you backwards. It's like me and finance, right,
Speaker 3: there's so many mortgage brokers out there. Are they my competition? No,
Speaker 3: because I'm not there and they're not me. So somebody,
Speaker 3: if you were a mortgage broker, somebody's going to resonate
Speaker 3: with Jess and only want to work with Jess. Doesn't
Speaker 3: matter who I am, or what I do or how
Speaker 3: many awards I win. Someone's also going to want to
Speaker 3: work with me and not resonate with you. And I
Speaker 3: think the sooner you come to that realization that there's
Speaker 3: actually more than enough people out there, and that's true
Speaker 3: in any industry. Like a lot of people might come
Speaker 3: to us justs and say it is even worth starting
Speaker 3: a candle business now glasshouse exists, And the answer to
Speaker 3: that is, well, yes, because you're offering a slightly different product.
Speaker 3: It's the experience, it's the connection to brand, it's the
Speaker 3: values of morals. It's not necessarily the actual candle. When
Speaker 3: someone buys a candle, they're not like, do you know
Speaker 3: what I feel like, Jess, I'd like a glass full
Speaker 3: of wax? Like, that's not what they're thinking. They're thinking
Speaker 3: the experience. They're thinking scent, They're thinking how does this
Speaker 3: benefit and uplift my life? And you're providing that experience.
Speaker 3: So I think going deeper and realizing that we're not
Speaker 3: in competition, you can collaborate. It's going to be able
Speaker 3: to expand your network.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely. The other type of partnership that you could
Speaker 5: consider is affiliate programs. Oh yeah, and now this when
Speaker 5: you're a small business, you know, it might be a
Speaker 5: little bit more tricky to set up, and there are
Speaker 5: actually platforms that will help you facilitate that, but effectively
Speaker 5: Affiliate marketing is where if somebody sells one of your products,
Speaker 5: you pay them a percentage of the sale as a commission, effectively.
Speaker 5: And if you're just starting out, this might not be
Speaker 5: quite right for you, but I think once you're a
Speaker 5: little bit more established, it can be a really great
Speaker 5: way to get existing customers, people who already use and
Speaker 5: love your product, to represent it and to sell on
Speaker 5: your behalf. And maybe that is also a whole separate
Speaker 5: episode because it's a lot of talk about it.
Speaker 3: I feel like it's affiliate marketing is becoming massive in Australia.
Speaker 3: It was massive in the UK and the US, and
Speaker 3: I mean the best example I have of this is
Speaker 3: LTK and LTK is it's like to not yeah and
Speaker 3: like to know it. And they are a basically a
Speaker 3: fashion platform where your favorite influencers like Mster Gricci can
Speaker 3: put up their wardrobes and basically any product that they
Speaker 3: sell and direct you to it, because how many times
Speaker 3: do you comment on an influencer supposed to be like hey,
Speaker 3: where's your jacket from? Like real cute? All the time
Speaker 3: the link is actually in their bio, they've listed the product,
Speaker 3: but they get a clip of that sale when you
Speaker 3: purchase it, And to be honest, I think that's really fair.
Speaker 3: Like you're the one that saw it on them, they're
Speaker 3: basically selling to you. But if you are a small
Speaker 3: business and you sell clothing, making sure you're listed on
Speaker 3: websites like that so that your consumer can actually pick
Speaker 3: it up and list it and share it with their
Speaker 3: communities is really smart.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I totally agree, and I'm actually very excited.
Speaker 5: To hear your thoughts more on influencer marketing because I
Speaker 5: feel it's a little bit spicy completely should.
Speaker 3: We be using influencers in our businesses?
Speaker 5: Stick around, let's go to a break, and then you
Speaker 5: answer that. Welcome back everybody to the Business Bible and VD.
Speaker 5: I want to get your thoughts on influencer marketing because
Speaker 5: you kind of really straddle the fence in a very
Speaker 5: interesting way on this.
Speaker 6: Ah.
Speaker 3: Yes, because I would. I don't know. I don't like
Speaker 3: being seen as an influencer, but if we did, still
Speaker 3: it down, am I one? Jess totally damn it. I
Speaker 3: would like to be seen as as who I believe
Speaker 3: I am right, which is a business owner and I run,
Speaker 3: she's on the money, I'm a podcaster, I'm a mum.
Speaker 3: For me, influencer is not a job title I like
Speaker 3: to embrace because I don't see it as my job.
Speaker 3: And often when we talk about influencers, that's their entire job.
Speaker 3: But I guess if we reshape it. I was talking
Speaker 3: to my friend Angela Sobrano the other day and she
Speaker 3: runs a company called Flourish pr and she was like,
Speaker 3: we're moving away from calling people influencers because that seems
Speaker 3: to have negative connotations, defining them as people of influence.
Speaker 3: So people of influence who carry influence in their market, right,
Speaker 3: So am I against influencer marketing? Absolutely not. There is
Speaker 3: a massive, massive market for it. However, that doesn't mean
Speaker 3: as a business it is the right fit for you.
Speaker 3: What would be a right fit is considering what might
Speaker 3: work and how it might work, and influencer marketing. Let's
Speaker 3: talk about our client, Jess Kaboodle. I am obsessed with Kaboodle.
Speaker 3: I am literally their perfect ambassador because I adore their product.
Speaker 3: And also I am currently in the midst of renovating
Speaker 3: my house, so I have just renovated my kitchen and
Speaker 3: I've used Koboodle products. I was intending on doing that
Speaker 3: the whole time. However, they worked backwards, saw that I
Speaker 3: was engaging in their content, contacted me and said, hey, Ve,
Speaker 3: we as a brand are interested in working with you
Speaker 3: because we can see that this is on your horizon already.
Speaker 3: So I would say that this is a really organic
Speaker 3: match for me to be working I guess in that
Speaker 3: influencer or person of influence space with a brand. Because
Speaker 3: my community know that I'm currently renovating my house the
Speaker 3: whole time, I wanted to do that on a budget,
Speaker 3: like it's actually really important to me to not over
Speaker 3: capitalize on the property that we've purchased. So we're you know,
Speaker 3: going through the motions of this. That makes a lot
Speaker 3: of sense because it's appealing to our demographic and it's
Speaker 3: an opportunity for Kaboodle to get access to my audience.
Speaker 3: On the flip side, had I worked with like a
Speaker 3: big luxury brand, I don't think that would have worked. Yes,
Speaker 3: So let's say like the fancy Pants Kitchen company wanted
Speaker 3: to come and work with me. That didn't make sense
Speaker 3: because it wasn't organic. And not only would I you know,
Speaker 3: probably have got a lot of backlash because people would
Speaker 3: have been like thee Because people aren't stupid, they would
Speaker 3: have been like, V, this makes no sense for you
Speaker 3: at this point, like are you seriously putting a five
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars kitchen in that house?
Speaker 1: Like what?
Speaker 3: But also it wouldn't have made sense for them because
Speaker 3: they're not getting access to the target market that I have,
Speaker 3: like my audience. They're like you and I just I
Speaker 3: love a bargain. Do we love a bargain? We love
Speaker 3: to see little diis Like that's probably where people sit
Speaker 3: in the sphere of you know, your and my content,
Speaker 3: Like you're the queen of doing DIY smaller projects. I
Speaker 3: wish I could do them. But then when it comes
Speaker 3: to you know, doing a kitchen, I want all the
Speaker 3: tips and tricks. I want to know whether dishwashers meant
Speaker 3: to go to make it the most economical and like
Speaker 3: use a friendly kitchen. So I think making sure that
Speaker 3: if you are going to work with influences, they actually
Speaker 3: are reflective of one your target audience. But a too
Speaker 3: actually influential is really important. And I mean we'll probably
Speaker 3: do an entire episode on whether influencers are right for
Speaker 3: your business or not and how to work with them.
Speaker 3: But one of the best websites that we use we
Speaker 3: don't work with influencers, but we do like snooping. So
Speaker 3: social blade dot Com, I would say, is a really
Speaker 3: good website to go and have a look at, because
Speaker 3: it will not only tell you I don't think in
Speaker 3: this day and age, followers make sense. No, I don't
Speaker 3: think in this day and age, DJing and influence are
Speaker 3: based on how many followers they have make sense because
Speaker 3: their engagement is what matters. So Social Blade really breaks
Speaker 3: that down and shows you, I guess under the hood
Speaker 3: of like, how many comments are they actually getting in
Speaker 3: proportion to how many followers they have. Are they naf
Speaker 3: bot comments or are they proper comments?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: What is their engagement rate?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 3: Because for me as a business, if someone's going to
Speaker 3: interact with my post or even on my personal account,
Speaker 3: I don't care about how many likes it gets. I
Speaker 3: care about how many good engaged comments it gets, and
Speaker 3: I care about how many times people are sending it
Speaker 3: to their friends. Yeah, like, I want you to see
Speaker 3: my post yess and think that that's so cool. You
Speaker 3: might not like it because I just whatever you forgot,
Speaker 3: but you're sending it to your friend because you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: look at this cool candle.
Speaker 4: Like reaching a whole nother person through the person you
Speaker 4: touch exactly.
Speaker 3: So influencer marketing can be good, but we need to
Speaker 3: approach it with a little bit of caution because I
Speaker 3: think so many times people and small businesses put all
Speaker 3: their eggs in one basket when it comes to influencer marketing.
Speaker 3: They go, well, if I can get Kendall Jenner to
Speaker 3: post about my business because I've seen this online, it'll
Speaker 3: go gangbusters and I'll be successful after that. Yeah, And
Speaker 3: that is shehew and far between.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think it's about resetting expectations as well,
Speaker 5: because you're totally right. I think, especially for people who
Speaker 5: have less experience with the influencer content creator industry, there's
Speaker 5: an assumption that if someone with a lot of followers
Speaker 5: shows a product, that product will immediately sell out. Yeah,
Speaker 5: which is not the case. And it's not always what
Speaker 5: you're using influencers for either. And you're right, this is
Speaker 5: probably a whole episode in and of itself. But sometimes
Speaker 5: it's market awareness. It's just letting people know that your
Speaker 5: brand exists, and that is a very valuable thing in
Speaker 5: and of itself. Conversion is only one element that you
Speaker 5: might be looking to use an influencer or an influential
Speaker 5: person for and I think that having realistic expectations because
Speaker 5: a lot of the time, if you are working with influencers,
Speaker 5: you're paying the money, and the bigger the influencer, those
Speaker 5: sums of money can become astronomical. And you know, everyone
Speaker 5: has a right to charge for their work. And I'm
Speaker 5: the last person to comment here or they're on it.
Speaker 5: But I think that understanding that just because you're spending
Speaker 5: that money doesn't necessarily mean you're immediately going to make
Speaker 5: that money back, because you might be investing. It's an
Speaker 5: equal conversion, exactly right. And so that's where it's so
Speaker 5: important to find the right fit and figure out the
Speaker 5: right type of content and trust the person creating the
Speaker 5: content that they know their audience. You know, sometimes brands
Speaker 5: have their You go, oh, well, I really want this
Speaker 5: type of video, but the influencer might say, oh, that
Speaker 5: video isn't really like my normal style, and you say,
Speaker 5: that's fine, I'm paying you a lot of money make
Speaker 5: the video that I want, and the influencer might go, well,
Speaker 5: could go two ways. They might go, Okay, not going
Speaker 5: to work with you, it's not on brand, or they
Speaker 5: might go okay, like, I'll do what you want, and
Speaker 5: then the video flops, and it's because you didn't listen
Speaker 5: to the person who arguably had some expertise in that space.
Speaker 5: You wanted to move forward with your idea, where maybe
Speaker 5: you could have just executed that idea your own page
Speaker 5: and seeing a bit more success and invested a lot
Speaker 5: less money in it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, exactly, it's very nuanced.
Speaker 4: And I feel like we could do a whole.
Speaker 3: Episode on it. We'll do a whole episode on it.
Speaker 3: I can promise that I've written it down, but Jess,
Speaker 3: I know that we have been talking for a while.
Speaker 3: I want to actually talk about the five to five
Speaker 3: to five rule. I feel like this is a really
Speaker 3: good systematic approach to building and expanding your business network,
Speaker 3: and it kind of involves identifying five people in five categories,
Speaker 3: dedicating five minutes to each, and nurturing these relationships. It
Speaker 3: sounds complex, but it's something that we do and it's
Speaker 3: something that I think anyone, whether they are at the
Speaker 3: start of their business journey or really really established, can
Speaker 3: do to create a more engaged audience.
Speaker 4: And it's free.
Speaker 3: It's free. We love a free plan. So the categories
Speaker 3: in the five to five five rule are existing customers,
Speaker 3: potential customers, industry influencers, referral partners, and professional development contacts.
Speaker 3: So Jess, the five five VIRL is something that we
Speaker 3: do as Cheese on the Money and have always done
Speaker 3: a Cheese on the money because it's kind of like
Speaker 3: an easy way to make sure that you're always engaging,
Speaker 3: especially online. So the five categories we just went through,
Speaker 3: let's start with existing customers. Just how does Sheese on
Speaker 3: the Money engage with existing customers every day?
Speaker 5: Well, you guys listening would know if you send us
Speaker 5: a DM on Instagram, we're applying to DM if it
Speaker 5: shows up, because Instagram is sometimes bad at seventy. But replying,
Speaker 5: you know, every day, we're definitely replying to more the vive,
Speaker 5: but replying to comments in the Facebook group, putting up
Speaker 5: polls on our stories to get your feedback on things
Speaker 5: that we're doing. Those are all ways that we're engaging
Speaker 5: with you right now who are listening, because we value
Speaker 5: like we understand that you are the bedrock of our business, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And they're not business inquiries that we're replying to.
Speaker 3: So it's not someone you know inquiring about a product
Speaker 3: or a service and new categorizing that as ticking the
Speaker 3: box on this five five five rule, it's not. It's
Speaker 3: external engagement that has nothing to do with the product.
Speaker 3: So it's like talking to your consumer in your DM
Speaker 3: about NAF topics in a relationship exactly. It might be
Speaker 3: commenting on an existing customers Instagram post. It might be
Speaker 3: following somebody that you know uses your product and service
Speaker 3: potential customers, how are we talking to them?
Speaker 5: Jess, I feel like we do this one a lot
Speaker 5: through our content. It's you know, your captions, it's call
Speaker 5: and response, asking questions so you can take their feedback
Speaker 5: on board. Maybe you haven't purchased the online course, or
Speaker 5: maybe you haven't listened to the podcast. But if we
Speaker 5: say to you, hey, like what do you want to
Speaker 5: learn about? You give us an answer. We're taking your
Speaker 5: feedback on board. And then when that episode or that
Speaker 5: course comes out, you go, oh my god.
Speaker 4: They listen to exactly what I wanted.
Speaker 5: If my idea helped make this happen, and it helps
Speaker 5: people feel really engaged with whatever you're putting out.
Speaker 3: And then we've got industry influences, so these aren't necessarily
Speaker 3: you know, big influences in the market, but the industry
Speaker 3: influencers who could actually help you grow your network. Right,
Speaker 3: So we are engaging with these literally in the same
Speaker 3: way as we do our potential customers. And I think
Speaker 3: the important thing when you're engaging is we're not pushing
Speaker 3: a product, Jess we were saying offline before, we're not commenting, Hey,
Speaker 3: I sell candles, come check them out. Yeah, what are
Speaker 3: we doing? What are we doing?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 3: I don't know, Like, let's pretend for a hot second,
Speaker 3: I don't know how to engage with, you know, a
Speaker 3: potential customer. I'm a brand. My Instagram name is Candles
Speaker 3: in Victoria.
Speaker 5: Well, it's like how you see on TikTok, you know
Speaker 5: how all the big brands are commenting just really out
Speaker 5: of pocket things like you're.
Speaker 3: Seeing Duo Lingo I'm obsessed.
Speaker 5: Duolingo shapes is commenting being like love your shoes, babe,
Speaker 5: or like you something so random like you as Candles
Speaker 5: in Victoria. As you're seeing an influencer post something and
Speaker 5: you're going, oh my gosh, it's fire. I love it.
Speaker 5: You're posting something funny, I feel like on the internet, Yeah,
Speaker 5: you're lifting people up. And I think the big thing
Speaker 5: about this rule is you're thinking about almost like trying
Speaker 5: to make friends with people, Like you're not trying to
Speaker 5: as you said, you're not pushing product. You're leaving a
Speaker 5: funny little comment, or you're complimenting someone or something, or
Speaker 5: you're saying, oh my god, like I watched you do
Speaker 5: this thing five years ago and now look at you, babe.
Speaker 5: I'm so proud. Yeah, we are the hype girl online completely.
Speaker 5: And so it's finding those people, just making them aware
Speaker 5: of your brands, Like they see your logo come up,
Speaker 5: they see your name come up. Candles by Victoria left
Speaker 5: this really funny comment that in itself is an exercise
Speaker 5: in brand awareness, and it's an exercise in putting your
Speaker 5: name on the radar of these influential people so that
Speaker 5: ye maybe they want to go and buy something for you,
Speaker 5: you know, just for themselves. Maybe they go, oh, that
Speaker 5: candle looks awesome. Let me just add one to my basket.
Speaker 3: This is where it's important to understand your tone of
Speaker 3: voice as well, because your tone of voice here is
Speaker 3: going to be so important. So we know our tone
Speaker 3: of voice, but do you know yours. Don't worry, we
Speaker 3: have a podcast, so you can go and listen to
Speaker 3: about tone of voice. But if you were a legal firm,
Speaker 3: the comments that you're leaving might be very different to
Speaker 3: a candle company, right, So we need to understand that
Speaker 3: because being funny online could get you in a bit
Speaker 3: of trouble. But do you know who's really funny? And
Speaker 3: I didn't see this coming policeknew South Wales?
Speaker 5: Oh my god, whoever is running their socials?
Speaker 1: You just know.
Speaker 4: I would bet money it's a gen Z queen.
Speaker 3: So thousand percent a gen Z queen. But the amount
Speaker 3: of stuff that they comment so funny. It's just it's hilarious,
Speaker 3: really funny, and that's built their personal brand too, Like
Speaker 3: they're leaning into their personal brand and it's got people
Speaker 3: like us. Like the second way we're talking about actually
Speaker 3: the second you said, I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: I've seen them everywhere. They're so funny, Like they're literally
Speaker 3: commenting on influencers posts in hilarious ways. I remember one
Speaker 3: of them closer to Easter. They were like talking about,
Speaker 3: you know, getting out and driving, and they're talking about
Speaker 3: demerit points in their comments and I'm just like, this
Speaker 3: is hilarious. But also what an exercise in marketing I've
Speaker 3: now remembered that it is double demerits over Easter. Yeah, geniuses.
Speaker 3: Now let's talk about a referral partners. How are we
Speaker 3: engaging with them, guys, Jess.
Speaker 5: I think this is one of the few where it's
Speaker 5: probably a bit more direct. Your referral partners are often
Speaker 5: your existing customers, or they may be people of influence,
Speaker 5: and I think that you know, reaching out and engaging
Speaker 5: with them, it starts with a soft touch, just like
Speaker 5: everyone else, lacking their content, making sure you follow them,
Speaker 5: things like that, and then it might be reaching out
Speaker 5: into their DMS or if they have an email listed
Speaker 5: on their page, reaching out to their email and saying, hey, like,
Speaker 5: we've saw that you love our candles, we really love
Speaker 5: the content that you're putting out. Would you be interested
Speaker 5: in working with us on a referral basis? And sometimes
Speaker 5: people might say no, Sometimes people might say they'll think
Speaker 5: about it. Sometimes people will say yes. But I think
Speaker 5: once you have those referral partners on board, it's also
Speaker 5: really helpful to provide them with resources. Are you working
Speaker 5: on a new product that they can help hype up?
Speaker 5: Are you developing something and they can give you insight
Speaker 5: and their feedback on it. I think keeping touch with
Speaker 5: those referral partners in a more business y way, but
Speaker 5: still taking their feedback on board and always always allowing
Speaker 5: them to do it in a way that feels authentic
Speaker 5: to them, I feel like is the best way to
Speaker 5: do it, and engaging with their content that's not yours either,
Speaker 5: just like the industry influencers or the existing customers, giving
Speaker 5: their both the like leaving a little comment with some love. Again,
Speaker 5: it's still getting your name out there in a positive way.
Speaker 5: If you're engaging, the algorithm often will pick that up
Speaker 5: and you know, say, oh, this person's really active. Maybe
Speaker 5: we'll push their content out a bit further. Yes, please,
Speaker 5: we all want that.
Speaker 3: All right now, let's talk about professional development contacts because
Speaker 3: I know when I said that some people might have
Speaker 3: glazed over or thought, well the hairca what is this victoria?
Speaker 3: But essentially these are contacts who can help you grow professionally,
Speaker 3: people like mentors or coaches or your peers in your industry.
Speaker 3: How are we engaging these people, Jess?
Speaker 5: I think like a big one is linked in yes,
Speaker 5: or networking events, places where you can get in touch
Speaker 5: with these people. Maybe they're doing things in business and
Speaker 5: you really look up to them. Maybe they're sharing their
Speaker 5: own insights as a thought leader quite like you do,
Speaker 5: and sharing their tips and tricks. Maybe you can engage
Speaker 5: with them that way. But I think these relationships are
Speaker 5: really about seeking advice and connecting with people who've maybe
Speaker 5: walked the road that you yourself want to walk. But
Speaker 5: also you have to acknowledge that people don't owe you
Speaker 5: their time or their information, and so I think connecting
Speaker 5: with these people is largely about maybe initially saying, hey,
Speaker 5: like I really love what you've done with your candle
Speaker 5: business and I really admire it, and if you're ever around,
Speaker 5: you know, I would love to take you out to coffee,
Speaker 5: and I know that that's you know, we can feel
Speaker 5: two ways about the coffee, but you know, or engaging
Speaker 5: with the content if they're putting out thought leader content
Speaker 5: on LinkedIn, just engaging with it, giving your opinion, or
Speaker 5: saying wow, like this thing that you've put out has
Speaker 5: really made me reflect on something that I'm doing. It's
Speaker 5: again about building connection in the hope that that connection
Speaker 5: will eventually lead you to some level of mentorship or
Speaker 5: some level of friendship.
Speaker 3: I think that's how I've gained so many friends in
Speaker 3: the space. Like often people say, veee, how do you
Speaker 3: have so many business owner friends? Like, how do you
Speaker 3: know these people? Did you grow up with them? The answers, no,
Speaker 3: I've networked with them. I've reached out, even if they're
Speaker 3: somebody that is completely outside of my situation, like they're
Speaker 3: not money content creators. They just own a cool business.
Speaker 3: I think I own a cool business, so I reach
Speaker 3: out and go HEYJS like rogue, but like, I think
Speaker 3: you and I would get along if you're ever around,
Speaker 3: I'd love to grab a coffee and to be honest,
Speaker 3: that network. I'm not trying to use them to grow
Speaker 3: my business, but I am using them as kind of
Speaker 3: that social network, because often when you're in the business space,
Speaker 3: your friends genuinely don't understand, like they don't get it.
Speaker 3: They say, oh, we'll just just do it later. For example, Jess,
Speaker 3: like I am in the situation this week whereaspan has
Speaker 3: been thrown into the works, and a lot of people
Speaker 3: might go, well, just call in sick, don't go to
Speaker 3: work today, be like, you can't do that, But in reality,
Speaker 3: the buck stops with me, and if I don't go
Speaker 3: to work tomorrow, Jess, I actually still have to do
Speaker 3: that work, just on another day. So it's kind of
Speaker 3: about getting it done and getting it done now, and
Speaker 3: a lot of people and I'm not saying that this
Speaker 3: is a good or a bad thing, but they're just
Speaker 3: not going to understand. So as your business grows, having
Speaker 3: people who are going through the same growing pains, having
Speaker 3: people who are able to empathize with that situation is
Speaker 3: going to be really powerful.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I completely agree, And the big one is just
Speaker 5: support the things that they're doing. Support their endeavors as
Speaker 5: much as these things that we're outlining. The ultimate goal
Speaker 5: is to grow your business, grow your reach, grow the
Speaker 5: number of people that understand who you are and what
Speaker 5: you're doing.
Speaker 4: You've also got.
Speaker 5: To give to get, so just fort people be there
Speaker 5: for others and hope or know that putting good things
Speaker 5: out into the world means good things will come back
Speaker 5: to you.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. I think the crux of the five
Speaker 3: five five rule for me is really about giving more
Speaker 3: than you get, because if you think that you're going
Speaker 3: to get heaps, like you've got the wrong mind said,
Speaker 3: and your business isn't able to flourish completely. I reckon
Speaker 3: We've done, Jess. I think we've wasted a lot of
Speaker 3: time chatting to the Business Bible community today and I
Speaker 3: have adored it. So guys, thank you so much for
Speaker 3: sticking around. They'll obviously be another Business Bible episode next month.
Speaker 3: We'll see you next week on She's on the Money.
Speaker 5: Bye.
Speaker 3: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
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