1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Trying to call Jordan Calhoun, the editor in chief of 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: Life Hacker, isn't easy. Trust me, I've tried. Jordan simply 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: doesn't take chances when it comes to his attention and 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: his productivity. He wants his devices to be productivity tools, 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: not a means for other people to distract him. So 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: what is Jordan's step by step process for ensuring his 7 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: phone and computer only command his attention when he wants 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: them to. My name is doctor Amantha Immer. I'm an 9 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, 10 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: and this is how I work a show about how 11 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: to help you do your best work. On today is 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: my favorite Tip episode, we go back to an interview 13 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: from the past, and I've pick out my favorite tip 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: from the interview. In today's show, I speak with Jordan 15 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: about what he has done to stop technology and various 16 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: hijacking his attention. 17 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 2: I go the nuclear route, which your mileage may vary. 18 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 2: You may not want to do this depending on the 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: type of person you are and how important notifications are 20 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 2: to you. But when it comes to things that infringe 21 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: on my attention, I turn them off. Whenever I download 22 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: a new app, whenever I begin a new service, whenever 23 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 2: I sign up for a new thing that has access 24 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: to my inbox, I turn off all notifications, and then 25 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 2: I actively turn on only the ones that I feel 26 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 2: that I need because these apps and services everything wants 27 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: your attention on their terms. That app that you download, 28 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 2: that service that you use, is going to want to 29 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 2: tell you, hey, this is this is when we want 30 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: your attention. This is when we think you should pay 31 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: attention to us. I feel that once I have a 32 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: certain level of control over my life and my schedule 33 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 2: and my calendar, then it should be up to me 34 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: to decide when I want notifications for things, so I 35 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: automatically turn them off by default, even for my phone, Amantha, 36 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 2: like my phone automatically blocks numbers that I don't recognize. 37 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 2: I so hate unwanted interruptions that I try to block 38 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 2: them at every chance that I get, And I trust 39 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: myself to be able to organize my calendar and organize 40 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 2: my schedule in a way that works for me, and 41 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: only choose those notifications that I really really need. 42 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: You mentioned blocking phone numbers, and I know when my 43 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 1: producer did a pre interview with you before. What we're 44 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: doing right now we had to send our phone number 45 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: ahead of time so that we wouldn't be blocked. Can 46 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: you tell me about what you are doing with numbers 47 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: on your phone? 48 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, So again this is a nuclear option. This might 49 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 2: not be advisable for everyone. I'll tell you sort of 50 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 2: the good and the bad of it. The good of it, obviously, 51 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 2: is that I do not get spam call. I don't 52 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: know if you have a similar problem. 53 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: Oh, so many, sign many. 54 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so many bot calls, and they're only projected 55 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 2: to increase, Like the volume of bot calls has increased 56 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 2: I don't know, a thousand times in the past, like 57 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: a handful of years, and it's only going to get worse. 58 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: So you're just going to get so many spam calls, 59 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: so many telemarketers that are just gonna, you know, make 60 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: you look at your phone and check who's calling and 61 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 2: think for a moment that it might be someone important 62 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 2: or your mother calling you, and it's really not right. 63 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 2: It's just going to be a robot. It's going to 64 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: be a recording. So the good part is that I 65 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: don't have that problem. I do not get telemarketers. I 66 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 2: do not get spam calls. I do not get calls from, 67 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 2: you know, people who I didn't explicitly give my number two. 68 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 2: That's the great part. The downside of it is, you know, 69 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: if my dentist wants to call me and it's a 70 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: new dentist to confirm my appointment, they're not going to 71 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 2: be able to They're gonna have to send me an email, 72 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 2: or they're gonna have to send me a text message. 73 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: I have to be really strategic about either warning people, hey, 74 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: let me say your phone numbers so that I have it. 75 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: I have to like be on top of that myself, 76 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: or knowing that they have an alternative means of connecting 77 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: with me, whether that's email or whatever else. 78 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: Now I want to ask about email as well, because 79 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: I imagine you're getting even more unsolicited emails from people 80 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: such as myself. I was, you know, quite chuffed that 81 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: I got through, Jordan. How are you managing your emails 82 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: with regard to this problem. 83 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 2: So I have my personal email and my professional email, 84 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 2: and I treat them sort of differently. Well, in some 85 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: ways I treat them the same. I am an inbox 86 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 2: zero person across all of my inboxes, so I try 87 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: to empty out my inbox and archive things because I 88 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 2: sort of use my email as a to do list, 89 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 2: or the only things that are in my inbox are 90 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: things that are actionable, like things that actually need to 91 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 2: be done. For my professional email, I am really really strict, 92 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: and that's mostly because my professional email is public, and 93 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: that means that anyone can email me, and I get 94 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 2: a lot of emails from every PR person and every 95 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: publicist under the sun advertising everything that you could possibly imagine, 96 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: asking if I'm willing to cover it. So if your 97 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: email address is public out there, then you might want 98 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: to follow again my very admittedly strict sort of guidelines, 99 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: which is that everyone whether they're you know, a PR person, whoever, 100 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 2: is reaching out. And I will again preface this by 101 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: saying this is a little bit extreme, but I basically 102 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: block every email that I get after they've emailed me once, 103 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 2: like you sort of get a one shot policy. So 104 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 2: if I get an email from someone about something that 105 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 2: I'm not interested in, I you know, either I can 106 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 2: respond and tell them I'm not interested if I feel 107 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 2: that it deserves a personal response, but if it's just 108 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 2: a mass piece our email about something, and I block 109 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 2: them and I move on and I'll never have to 110 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 2: worry And the reason I do that, Amantha, is because 111 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 2: because they'll always follow up. They'll always follow up two 112 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 2: or three or four times. And if you know that 113 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 2: you're not going to respond affirmatively to this person, you 114 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: might not want to respond at all because they're just 115 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 2: you know, it's basically spam. Then why are you Why 116 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 2: would I leave myself open to the follow up? Like 117 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 2: I either need to respond to tell them I'm not 118 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 2: interested or block them. And that's the decision that I 119 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 2: make with every email that comes into my inbox, like 120 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 2: do I want to give them another chance? I'll be honest, 121 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: ninety nine percent of them. Because I get so much 122 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: in my inbox, like ninety nine percent of it, I 123 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: just automatically block and just continue living my life. 124 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: I love Jordan's ruthless approach to blocking emails, and it's 125 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: something that I've adopted in my own life now. So 126 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: I get a lot of pictures from people about being 127 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: on this podcast, and inevitably they follow up three or 128 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: four times, sometimes more. And as strange as it feels, 129 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: blocking people, my goodness has freed up a lot of 130 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: space in my inbox and also in my head. If 131 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: you're looking for more tips, to improve the way that 132 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: you work. I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains 133 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: three cool things that I've discovered that helped me work better, 134 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving through to 135 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: interesting research findings. You can sign up for that at 136 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: Howiwork dot com. That's how I work dot co. How 137 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: I Work is produced by Inventium with production support from 138 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: Dead Set Studios and thank you to Matt Nimba who 139 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: does the audio mix for every episode and makes everything 140 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: sound so much better than it would have otherwise. See 141 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: you next time.