1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,920
Speaker 1: Hi there, It's Zara and I've very quickly stolen the

2
00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,400
Speaker 1: mic from Lucy and Harry before they start today's EPP

3
00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:10,039
Speaker 1: to share some very exciting news. In January, this podcast

4
00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,680
Speaker 1: was the nineteenth biggest podcast across any genre in the country.

5
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,800
Speaker 1: That is quite literally mind blowing. So I'm here today

6
00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,840
Speaker 1: to just say a massive thank you. Thank you for

7
00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,680
Speaker 1: supporting us, for giving you media a shot, and for

8
00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,920
Speaker 1: making our podcast dreams come true. If you want to

9
00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,320
Speaker 1: help us keep growing all the way to number one,

10
00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,479
Speaker 1: make sure you're following this podcast on whatever platform you're

11
00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,600
Speaker 1: listening on, or leave a review if you're listening on Apple.

12
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,320
Speaker 1: That's all from me, But enjoy today's podcast already.

13
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,120
Speaker 2: And this is this is the Daily This is.

14
00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:43,760
Speaker 3: The Daily OS.

15
00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,240
Speaker 4: Oh now it makes sense.

16
00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,840
Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday,

17
00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,440
Speaker 2: the twentieth of February. I'm Harry, I'm Lucy. This week

18
00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,400
Speaker 2: will mark three years since Russia invaded Ukraine. The war

19
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,959
Speaker 2: marked the first open conflict between two countries in Europe

20
00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,319
Speaker 2: since the Second World War. While the US has fully

21
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,119
Speaker 2: backed Ukraine's efforts to stave off Russian forces, the new

22
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,039
Speaker 2: Trump administration appears to be charting a new course and

23
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,160
Speaker 2: engaging with Russia to seek a peaceful solution. In today's

24
00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,960
Speaker 2: Deep Dive, will break down a big week of talks

25
00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,720
Speaker 2: and look at whether Ukraine and Russia are about to

26
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,600
Speaker 2: put down their weapons for good.

27
00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,560
Speaker 5: Harry, Right before we started recording this podcast, we were

28
00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,800
Speaker 5: reflecting on the length of this conflict. So much has

29
00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,800
Speaker 5: happened in the last three years, and yet it still

30
00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,399
Speaker 5: also kind of feels like, you know, last week we

31
00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,360
Speaker 5: woke up to the news that Russia had launched a

32
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,640
Speaker 5: full scale invasion of Ukraine across multiple borders.

33
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,120
Speaker 4: What's going on now, what's the latest.

34
00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,600
Speaker 2: Well, you're so right to say that it is this

35
00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,600
Speaker 2: kind of paradox of it was only yesterday, but it

36
00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,680
Speaker 2: was three years ago. We are approaching that anniversary of

37
00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 2: three years this week, and yeah, it doesn't quite feel real.

38
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 2: And the short answer is there's been a lot of

39
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,440
Speaker 2: stasis on the front lines of the conflict. There hasn't

40
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,400
Speaker 2: been much movement either way. If we think about those

41
00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,560
Speaker 2: early days of the conflict, it was a blitz of

42
00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,799
Speaker 2: Russian troops crossing into the border of Ukraine and taking

43
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,440
Speaker 2: over some key cities and regions, and since then the

44
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,519
Speaker 2: UN estimates roughly twelve and a half thousand civilians have died.

45
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,119
Speaker 2: That's just from shelling attacks and missiles hitting apartments, buildings,

46
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,400
Speaker 2: businesses right across Ukraine. And the main movement that's happened

47
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,359
Speaker 2: in the past year or so involved Ukrainian forces actually

48
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,240
Speaker 2: moving into Russian territory, if you may remember, they moved

49
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,400
Speaker 2: into the Kurse region, which is right on the border

50
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:52,680
Speaker 2: with Russia. And since then we haven't really heard much

51
00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,480
Speaker 2: about what's been going on at the front lines, but

52
00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,799
Speaker 2: of course it has been coming up a lot recently.

53
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,640
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, it's really been popping up

54
00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:03,360
Speaker 2: on my feedes everywhere I look.

55
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:04,560
Speaker 4: So what's been going on?

56
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:10,000
Speaker 2: Well, one word, Trump the man of the moment exactly,

57
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,120
Speaker 2: and he does seem to be creeping into a lot

58
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,120
Speaker 2: of different headlines, but this one, in particular, I think

59
00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:20,440
Speaker 2: stretches right back to his campaign for president last year.

60
00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,040
Speaker 2: So as your recall, when he was running, he did

61
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 2: talk about the Russia Ukraine conflict a bit. He mentioned

62
00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,080
Speaker 2: that he wanted to get it all sorted out within

63
00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,360
Speaker 2: twenty four hours. It's fair to say that his plate's

64
00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,840
Speaker 2: been pretty full since he's entered the White House, and

65
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,880
Speaker 2: so he stretched out his deadline from one day to

66
00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,000
Speaker 2: realistically a few months. Last week we saw Trump called

67
00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 2: both the Russian President Vladimir Putin and the Ukrainian President

68
00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,120
Speaker 2: Voladimi is Zelenski now to sort of emphasize the significance

69
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:54,320
Speaker 2: of this. Russia and the US have not spoken on

70
00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,040
Speaker 2: an official platform like that since the war began.

71
00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,080
Speaker 5: Wow, so since well into Biden's term.

72
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,800
Speaker 2: That's right, And that's because the US have pressed ahead

73
00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,880
Speaker 2: with a lot of sanctions against Russian individuals. They've also

74
00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,720
Speaker 2: barred some Russian companies from doing business in the US,

75
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,280
Speaker 2: and there's been all sorts of diplomatic phrases across the

76
00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,480
Speaker 2: board between the two countries. So the fact that their

77
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,920
Speaker 2: leaders were having a phone call was a major break

78
00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:22,960
Speaker 2: from what we've seen in the last three years.

79
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:23,400
Speaker 4: For sure.

80
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it seems like the Biden administration was

81
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,479
Speaker 5: doing everything short of actively joining the war on the

82
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,039
Speaker 5: side of Ukraine, using all those tools that countries have

83
00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:38,039
Speaker 5: to condemn another country's actions without physically getting on the

84
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:39,600
Speaker 5: front lines. And certainly I feel like there's been a

85
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 5: lot of funding announcements to Ukraine or they were throughout

86
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:47,160
Speaker 5: the previous administration. How is the Trump administration's tactic different.

87
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,120
Speaker 2: So it does appear as though the strategy seems to

88
00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:56,480
Speaker 2: be talk more and talk with everyone. And after Trump

89
00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,480
Speaker 2: held these talks at a leader's level, yeah, his most

90
00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 2: senior people were unleashed to Europe and the Middle East

91
00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,320
Speaker 2: to engage in some of these high level talks. So

92
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,920
Speaker 2: we're talking about the Vice President Jade Vance, his Defense

93
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,800
Speaker 2: Secretary Pete Hegseth, and his Secretary of State, which is

94
00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,359
Speaker 2: the American equivalent of a foreign minister, Marco Rubio. They've

95
00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 2: been trotting around. They've been making these really big speeches

96
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,920
Speaker 2: and large statements about the US's position. And that's why

97
00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,080
Speaker 2: we've been seeing a lot of headlines relating to the

98
00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,440
Speaker 2: Russia Ukraine conflict because the US has moved on a

99
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,920
Speaker 2: number of its positions with the conflict. And I think

100
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,440
Speaker 2: there's three main things to break down. So firstly, the

101
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,120
Speaker 2: US has said it doesn't see the return of Crimea

102
00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,080
Speaker 2: to Ukraine as being realistic.

103
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,200
Speaker 4: Wow, do you want to just take us back?

104
00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,800
Speaker 5: Because I know for me when Crimea, when that became

105
00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,320
Speaker 5: kind of a flashpoint. I mean, it's long ago enough

106
00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,039
Speaker 5: now that I was in high school. So can you

107
00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,359
Speaker 5: remind me kind of what that was about.

108
00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,559
Speaker 2: I was right there at high school with you, LIZI,

109
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,040
Speaker 2: and I do remember. This was so significant because Russia

110
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,440
Speaker 2: had annexed Crimea, which is this peninsula at the southern

111
00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:13,200
Speaker 2: tip of Ukraine bordering the Black Sea. And it was

112
00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,320
Speaker 2: massive at the time because there had been no movements

113
00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,599
Speaker 2: like that, as I mentioned in the intro, since the

114
00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,720
Speaker 2: Second World War. And so Russia now controls this strip

115
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:27,279
Speaker 2: of land that was formerly Ukrainian territory. It's not really

116
00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,200
Speaker 2: internationally recognized as being Russian territory.

117
00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,120
Speaker 5: I was going to say, can they legally do that?

118
00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,760
Speaker 5: Do people have to acknowledge that they that that's now

119
00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:35,560
Speaker 5: part of Russia.

120
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,359
Speaker 2: It's widely considered an illegal annexation, and it's been a

121
00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:45,760
Speaker 2: long stated goal of Ukrainian leaders to regain control of Crimea.

122
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,360
Speaker 5: But the US is now saying that they're not going

123
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,240
Speaker 5: to try and make that part of peace talks.

124
00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,800
Speaker 2: That's right, and they think that that's just not a

125
00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:57,880
Speaker 2: realistic solution at this stage, and that contradicts what President

126
00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,800
Speaker 2: Volodimwzelenski in Ukraine has been said since Russia first invaded

127
00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,080
Speaker 2: three years ago. The second position that the US has

128
00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,920
Speaker 2: moved on is that it now doesn't directly support Ukraine's

129
00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,560
Speaker 2: efforts to join NATO's just as a reminder, that is

130
00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,280
Speaker 2: the military alliance that many European countries are part of,

131
00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,280
Speaker 2: and the US is also a member of.

132
00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,520
Speaker 5: The North Atlantic Treaty organization. Literally talking about the northern

133
00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,480
Speaker 5: part of the Atlantic Ocean, someone paid.

134
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,520
Speaker 2: Attention to geography, very impressed. I couldn't. I don't think

135
00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,560
Speaker 2: I could have told you the acronym off the bat

136
00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:35,920
Speaker 2: like that. This is a really big shift for multiple reasons,

137
00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:40,000
Speaker 2: and I think it goes back to the actual invasion

138
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,840
Speaker 2: of Ukraine as well, because part of the way that

139
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 2: Putin was able to justify moving into Ukraine's border was

140
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,480
Speaker 2: he saw the expansion of NATO as being a direct

141
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,280
Speaker 2: threat to Russia. And since the invasion began, Zelenski's been

142
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,920
Speaker 2: talking about how he wants to join NATO because they

143
00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,280
Speaker 2: have what's known as Article five, and that is basically

144
00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 2: a statement to that an attack on one partner of

145
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:03,040
Speaker 2: NATO is.

146
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,000
Speaker 4: An attack on all, So.

147
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:09,760
Speaker 2: That way you are basically guaranteeing long term security, because

148
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,720
Speaker 2: if Russia was to invade a NATO country, it would

149
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,240
Speaker 2: amount to an attack on the US, on Poland, on

150
00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,840
Speaker 2: the UK, France, like all these countries that have signed

151
00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,240
Speaker 2: up to NATO, there's thirty two of them now.

152
00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,160
Speaker 5: Actually speaking of Poland, that reminds me one of the

153
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,840
Speaker 5: kind of key moments in this war was a day

154
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,160
Speaker 5: when it was thought that Russia had launched a missile

155
00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,040
Speaker 5: at Poland, which would have triggered Article five.

156
00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and that could have unleashed a massive, massive.

157
00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,160
Speaker 4: Conflict, a genuine world war.

158
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:47,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And so the US has been broadly supportive, especially

159
00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,960
Speaker 2: under Joe Biden's administration, of Ukraine's membership to NATO or

160
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,760
Speaker 2: eventual membership, we should say, they have to go through

161
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,959
Speaker 2: a few steps before they get there. But now the

162
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,720
Speaker 2: Trump administration is saying that they don't support that move.

163
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 2: And the final area where the US has moved quite

164
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,120
Speaker 2: significantly in recent weeks has been that it's pretty clear

165
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,800
Speaker 2: that the US is happy to have talks with Russia

166
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:18,600
Speaker 2: without Ukraine or any European officials in your room. And

167
00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,240
Speaker 2: this came to the fall when the top US diplomat,

168
00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,960
Speaker 2: Mark Rubio, who I mentioned earlier, he visited Saudi Arabia

169
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,760
Speaker 2: this week, and that was to meet with Russian Foreign

170
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,600
Speaker 2: Minister Sergei Lavrov. A high level meeting like this hasn't

171
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,839
Speaker 2: taken place between the US and Russia in years, and

172
00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,400
Speaker 2: so it was a massive move. And quite significantly as well,

173
00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:41,600
Speaker 2: Ukraine wasn't invited.

174
00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,720
Speaker 5: Interesting, so they're having these peace talks, but they're not

175
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,680
Speaker 5: involving one of the parties in the.

176
00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,160
Speaker 2: War, that's correct, and that has caused a bit of

177
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,719
Speaker 2: concern among the European leaders in particular, understandably and Ukrainians

178
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,520
Speaker 2: as well. And just not having Ukraine at one end

179
00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,160
Speaker 2: of the table is quite significant in the language of diplomacy, Yeah,

180
00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,920
Speaker 2: because it's all about who's at the table and who isn't,

181
00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,520
Speaker 2: and those of us who are observing from the sidelines

182
00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,600
Speaker 2: are just left to read between the lines. Effectively. This caused,

183
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 2: as I mentioned, a lot of concern with some European leaders.

184
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,600
Speaker 2: So French President Emmanuel Macron hastily called a meeting with

185
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,760
Speaker 2: other EU leaders to discuss this change in the US

186
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,400
Speaker 2: position and the US kind of engaging with Russia without

187
00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:32,359
Speaker 2: any European input. So this took place in Paris this week. Afterwards,

188
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,760
Speaker 2: all the European leaders that had gathered basically gave their

189
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:40,560
Speaker 2: unequivocal support to Ukraine, and Macron himself said that a

190
00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:45,400
Speaker 2: peaceful resolution to the Russia Ukraine War needed to have Ukraine,

191
00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,320
Speaker 2: European and American voices in.

192
00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,520
Speaker 5: The room, assuming that that could even happen. Since the

193
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,880
Speaker 5: US seems like it's doing its own thing and Europe's

194
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,920
Speaker 5: trying to support Ukraine, could we see an end to

195
00:10:58,960 --> 00:10:59,840
Speaker 5: this conflict.

196
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,560
Speaker 2: I think that's a recognition now, and I think it's

197
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,839
Speaker 2: also poignant that we're approaching a three year an adversary

198
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,880
Speaker 2: of this conflict, that people do want this war to end,

199
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,200
Speaker 2: and all sides are talking about peace talks, and that

200
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:20,400
Speaker 2: hasn't really happened in such a loud and obvious way

201
00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,920
Speaker 2: in quite some time. And Ukraine, for its part, isn't

202
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:29,199
Speaker 2: happy about being sidelined, especially in Saudi Arabia. Volodi mi

203
00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,080
Speaker 2: Islandes gadtually canceled a trip that he had planned to

204
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,400
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia, but he's been sticking to the line that

205
00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,080
Speaker 2: Ukraine wants to work with the Trump administration to secure

206
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:44,080
Speaker 2: a robust and lasting peace in his country. Ukraine's also

207
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,840
Speaker 2: been pretty clear that it wants Russian troops to withdraw

208
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,040
Speaker 2: from its territories. So that would mean Russia leaving large

209
00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,160
Speaker 2: parts of the northern and eastern areas of Ukraine. And

210
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,440
Speaker 2: after the foreign ministers of the US and Russia met

211
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:04,120
Speaker 2: this week, Trump made some pretty characteristically offscript remarks at

212
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:04,960
Speaker 2: a press conference.

213
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,400
Speaker 3: And I think I have the power to end this war,

214
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,400
Speaker 3: and I think it's going very well. But today I heard, oh,

215
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,760
Speaker 3: we weren't invaded. Well, you've been there for three years.

216
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,960
Speaker 3: You should have ended it three years. You should have

217
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 3: never started it. You could have made a deal. I

218
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 3: could have made a deal for Ukraine.

219
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,680
Speaker 2: Now I've seen some headlines that this kind of sounds

220
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,600
Speaker 2: like Trump is almost blaming Ukraine for the course of

221
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,280
Speaker 2: the war and how it's how we've ended up three

222
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,800
Speaker 2: years into this conflict with no resolution. I think what

223
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,160
Speaker 2: is actually more interesting from Trump's language is that it

224
00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,640
Speaker 2: just really suggests that he wants to storm towards a deal.

225
00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,320
Speaker 2: He wants it done quickly, and he wants it done efficiently.

226
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,920
Speaker 2: And so I definitely believe that we're getting into territory

227
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,760
Speaker 2: where we're talking about a possible ceasefire, we're talking about

228
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,320
Speaker 2: peace talks, the terms of which are just going to

229
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,440
Speaker 2: be really, really interesting. And I'll be keeping a close eyes.

230
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,080
Speaker 2: I'm sure you will be, Lucy. We'll be considering things

231
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,240
Speaker 2: like will Ukraine need to give up some of its territory?

232
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,000
Speaker 2: If so, how much will Ukraine be able to expand

233
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:13,319
Speaker 2: its defense forces in the future, And how will all actors,

234
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,160
Speaker 2: whether that be Russia or the US or Ukraine, how

235
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,839
Speaker 2: will they be able to avoid any future invasion should

236
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:21,959
Speaker 2: we ever get into that territory again.

237
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, you know what they say, compromise means and

238
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,640
Speaker 5: no one's happy. So we'll certainly be waiting to see

239
00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,120
Speaker 5: and I'm sure you'll be back on the pod to

240
00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:30,920
Speaker 5: explain it all to us when it does happen.

241
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,520
Speaker 4: Harry, thanks so much for.

242
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,040
Speaker 5: Joining us today on the Daily OS. If you can't

243
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,040
Speaker 5: get enough, you can catch us again later in the

244
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,320
Speaker 5: day for the headlines. Until then, have a great day

245
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:41,440
Speaker 5: and we'll see you next time.

246
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,120
Speaker 4: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

247
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,920
Speaker 4: Bunjelung Kalkotin woman from Gadighl country.

248
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,920
Speaker 5: The Daily Os acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

249
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,440
Speaker 5: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

250
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,959
Speaker 5: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait island and nations.

251
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,400
Speaker 4: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

252
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:04,720
Speaker 4: both past and present.