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Speaker 1: Yesterday's interview with the Chief Ministers raised eyebrows around the nation.

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Speaker 1: Many disheartened by her response with the issues in what's

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Speaker 1: going on in Alice Springs and left many wondering how

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Speaker 1: will the Northern Territory get out of this miss now?

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Speaker 1: The Northern Territory Police Association and members of the force

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Speaker 1: were quite rovable after some of the comments that the

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister had made. Take a listen to part of

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Speaker 1: that interview from yesterday.

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Speaker 2: One of the tasks of the Central Australian Regional Controller

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Speaker 2: is to look at those services and make sure they're

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Speaker 2: being funded and they're being run appropriately. I was briefed

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Speaker 2: yesterday afternoon and what the work that she is doing

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Speaker 2: is bringing together what is happening, what needs to be achieved,

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Speaker 2: and how we can deliver that. The Commonwealth Government are

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Speaker 2: at the table in terms of funding. For example, we

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Speaker 2: see people coming into Alice Springs to access services. Why

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Speaker 2: does a place like you and Demou not have those

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Speaker 2: basic services. It's identifying the issues around why people are

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Speaker 2: in townaging them with the services, and I think it

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Speaker 2: is Katie in two parts. There's the alcohol part, but

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Speaker 2: there's also the youth and the young kids and sadly

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Speaker 2: that's generational. But we can't just say that as a response.

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Speaker 2: We have to have an immediate response, which is why

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Speaker 2: police have been asked to step up, and I have

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Speaker 2: contacted the Police Commissioner to say I expect every resource

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Speaker 2: to be placed into Alice Springs to support that community

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 1: So that was part of the interview yesterday with the

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister. Now I caught up with the Police Association

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Speaker 1: President Paul Mchughe a little earlier this morning as he's

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Speaker 1: in meetings all morning. Take a listen to what he

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Speaker 1: had to say. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Paul, Good morning, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, what

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Speaker 1: were your concerns with the Chief Minister's comments yesterday?

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Speaker 3: Well, I guess it was fairly insulting to hear the

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Speaker 3: words the police need to step up, and that certainly

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Speaker 3: came through loud and clear from the numerous members that

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Speaker 3: contacted us. Outraged at that statement, given what police have

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Speaker 3: really done for our government and our community over the

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Speaker 3: last three years. Particularly, you know, we had many officers

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Speaker 3: some contact us yesterday who have been up for twenty hours,

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Speaker 3: you know, dealing with law and order issues in remote

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Speaker 3: communities in major centers, and they just said, well, what

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Speaker 3: on earth do they want us to do? You know,

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Speaker 3: step up? What do they mean? I mean, we are

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Speaker 3: giving everything we've got. We clearly don't have enough to

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Speaker 3: do what's being asked, and to hear comments like that

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Speaker 3: was pretty upsetting for them.

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Speaker 1: How are the police feeling at this point, Paul, I

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Speaker 1: mean you touched on it, but just paint a picture

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Speaker 1: for our listeners of how police are feeling at the

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Speaker 1: moment in Alice Springs grappling with the issue of crime

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Speaker 1: and alcohol issuse.

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Speaker 3: Look, I guess I mean Alice Springs is certainly the focus,

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Speaker 3: but we know many officers have been dragged from other

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Speaker 3: areas across the entire territory, including our remote areas, to

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Speaker 3: help deal with this issue, which is heavily Alice Springs focused.

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Speaker 3: But right now, of course they feel under attack. They

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Speaker 3: have been doing enormous amounts of work given the increased

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Speaker 3: levels of crime, and we've seen the statistics, you know,

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Speaker 3: in relation to our cohorelated harm and assaults, etc. So

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Speaker 3: you know, particularly over the last six months, those crime

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Speaker 3: levels of skyrocketed, yet our police numbers are still already

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Speaker 3: behind the apall and you get alone with those additional

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Speaker 3: crime increases. So they're doing it tough, they're doing enormous

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Speaker 3: amounts of overtime, and of course the impact on them

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Speaker 3: personally and their families is immeasurable.

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Speaker 1: What were officers saying to you yesterday after they'd heard

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Speaker 1: those comments, the step up comment, Well.

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Speaker 3: Some of them I can't read out to you on radio, Katie.

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Speaker 3: They were that upset. Emails, phone calls, text messages to me,

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Speaker 3: our team, many of our representatives. They were pretty upset

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Speaker 3: across the board, given you know, many of them sacrificing

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Speaker 3: enormous amounts to make sure you know, there is a

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Speaker 3: response capability there in Alison, across the entire territory. They

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Speaker 3: are working, as I've said, multiple hours of overtime each

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Speaker 3: fortnight to just meet roster demand. And so they were

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Speaker 3: pretty upset. They were very, very upset, And you know,

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Speaker 3: I think these sorts of careless statements don't have a

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Speaker 3: place in the solution that people trying to find.

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Speaker 1: Have you had any response from the Northern Territory government,

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Speaker 1: Has anybody reached out to you or anything like that?

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Speaker 1: Following on from that discussion yesterday, but also then you

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Speaker 1: know the subsequent response from the Northern Territory Police officers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, this morning, the Chief Minister did telephone me

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Speaker 3: to apologize for that statement. And no doubt she in

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Speaker 3: hindsight listened to those comments and realized the impact that

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Speaker 3: probably had on police officers. And we're hoping to see

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Speaker 3: a statement from her or her office in relation to

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Speaker 3: this issue. Now, we did ask her to apologize. She

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Speaker 3: has to me personally, but of course it's the members

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Speaker 3: out on the road that really want to hear that,

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Speaker 3: and we're hoping to see that today.

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Speaker 1: Right, So, I mean that's a pretty big movement. I

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Speaker 1: guess that she's actually made contact with you, so she's

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Speaker 1: recognized that that probably wasn't the right words to say.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, undoubtedly, And I guess that's all we ask. If

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Speaker 3: people are you know, making statements and upsetting the very

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Speaker 3: people out there keeping us safe. You know, people should

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Speaker 3: never be too proud to pick up the phone and

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Speaker 3: make that apology, and the Chief Minister has done that.

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Speaker 3: But of course, you know, there were several others statements

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Speaker 3: made recently in relation to the forty additional officers and

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Speaker 3: making sure they remain in Alice Springs. I mean, those

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Speaker 3: sorts of things are not achievable in the long term.

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Speaker 3: We've only got several We've got you know, maybe twenty

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Speaker 3: or thirty police left there and al as a top up.

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Speaker 3: That's not sustainable in the long term and there needs

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Speaker 3: to be a better solution now.

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Speaker 1: Paul, I know that you in that post that you

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Speaker 1: put on social media yesterday following on from the interview

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Speaker 1: you had said, you know that there's legislative changes that

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Speaker 1: have impact the force. What you know what legislative changes

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Speaker 1: specifically do you feel as though I've had a massive

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Speaker 1: impact for the Northern Territory Police Force in terms of

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Speaker 1: them trying to do their jobs right now.

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Speaker 3: Well, we've seen changes to the Liquor Act over the

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Speaker 3: last few years. We've seen changes obviously to the Bail

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Speaker 3: Bail Act and you know what it means in terms

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Speaker 3: of breaching bail. And then of course probably the biggest one,

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Speaker 3: of course, was the cessation of the stronger futures and

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Speaker 3: not having any plan in place to ensure there was

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Speaker 3: a transition period, you know, to enable communities to determine

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Speaker 3: if they want alcohol in those communities or not. The

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Speaker 3: switch was flipped overnight, and of course that impact was enormous.

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Speaker 3: We're talking, you know, increases in attendance, you know, sixty

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Speaker 3: seventy percent to some jobs over that period since since

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Speaker 3: that legislation was removed, So that's probably been the biggest impact. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'll tell you what, I think everybody that

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Speaker 1: listens to this show knows how incredibly hard the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory police work and what difficult conditions it can be.

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Speaker 1: Are our police getting fed up with having to you know,

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Speaker 1: to clean up and be there for a lot of

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Speaker 1: these different situations where you know, some of these policy

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Speaker 1: settings could be better and could be different so that

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Speaker 1: it doesn't fall on them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think really we just want governments to

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Speaker 3: listen to the concerns of police. I mean, we undertook

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Speaker 3: a survey as you know last year. Over a thousand

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Speaker 3: of our frontline officers responded to that survey ninety three percent.

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Speaker 3: So we currently don't have enough police to do what

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Speaker 3: we're being asked to do. That was before the significant

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Speaker 3: impacts of this stronger futures that we're removed. So you know,

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Speaker 3: they are the people living and breathing the response requirements

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Speaker 3: in our community every day. Yet whilst the governments say

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Speaker 3: we're listening. It doesn't have here to be the case.

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Speaker 3: You know, we've got ninety three percent of police saying

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Speaker 3: we don't have enough, and yet what are we doing

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Speaker 3: about that? Nothing?

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Speaker 1: Now, Paul, how are we going with those police numbers?

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Speaker 3: Right now? We've got recruits, squads in but their and

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Speaker 3: biggest concern remains, Katie, the attrition of police in the

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory. We know the figure in the annual report

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Speaker 3: from last year was in excess of ten percent. I mean,

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Speaker 3: when that's one hundred and sixty officers per year walking

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Speaker 3: out the door, that is incredible numbers when you think

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Speaker 3: how challenging the recruitment of police around the countries at

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Speaker 3: the moment. We can ill afford to have an attrition

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Speaker 3: rate like that, and I think that really comes back

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Speaker 3: to lack of numbers on the road, that lack of

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Speaker 3: feeling of support having enough police to do the job,

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Speaker 3: and all of that falls back on the government to

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Speaker 3: make a difference and they're clearly not. When you've got

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Speaker 3: those sort of numbers walking out of the door.

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Speaker 1: Now, where are the pay negotiations at because let's be honest,

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Speaker 1: it's obviously having a big impact here as well. I

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Speaker 1: was imagined I would imagine in terms of recruiting and

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Speaker 1: retaining staff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, huge impact, Katie. I mean we've been eighteen months

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Speaker 3: now our members without a pay rise. In the same

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Speaker 3: time we've seen other jurisdictions such as Queensland, you know,

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Speaker 3: sign up a deal where their officers are going to

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Speaker 3: be getting well on excess of four four and a

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Speaker 3: half percent each year and other factors. So here we

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Speaker 3: are eighteen months since a pay rise. It's twelve months

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Speaker 3: since negotiators negotiations commenced with government and were yet to

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Speaker 3: see an offer put to us that really justifies the

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Speaker 3: incredible work that our police do out on the street.

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Speaker 3: So we've got another meeting today. We look forward to

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Speaker 3: going to that meeting and hopefully seeing something put on

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Speaker 3: the table that we're willing to put to our members.

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Speaker 3: But I'm not overly confident at this stage.

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Speaker 1: Now, Paul, I have been seen this morning as well

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Speaker 1: a link to a story which has been posted by

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Speaker 1: the NTI Independent. Now it's been reported that a confidential

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Speaker 1: cabinet document photographed in the Police Minister Kate Warden's hands,

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Speaker 1: appears to show the files government intends to cut the

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Speaker 1: police budget in the middle of a crime crisis by

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Speaker 1: sixteen million dollars next financial year and are staggering thirty

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Speaker 1: one million dollars the subsequent three financial years later, with

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Speaker 1: frontline staff reductions expected. That is what the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: of the Anti Independent has said in a story. Have

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Speaker 1: you I mean as this, have you heard anything about this?

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Speaker 1: And what is your reaction if that is indeed the

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Speaker 1: case iver heard thing about that?

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Speaker 3: Of course, no doubt governments are always looking at ways

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Speaker 3: to save money. But the last thing you want to

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Speaker 3: do right now, regardless of what that document says, is

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Speaker 3: to cut frontline staffing. I mean, policing is critical. We've

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Speaker 3: seen that, you know, no more than the COVID pandemic,

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Speaker 3: where we needed to deploy enormous amounts to numbers to

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Speaker 3: various parts of the territory. I mean, if you've got

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Speaker 3: any any hope of you know, regaining the trust of

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Speaker 3: the territory, regaining you know, the trust of the police

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Speaker 3: officers here, the last thing you want to be doing

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Speaker 3: is looking at cutting those services. But certainly nothing we've

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Speaker 3: seen and we sincerely hope that he's not going to

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Speaker 3: be the case, and he is to come because that

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Speaker 3: would be a disaster for the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: Well particularly you know, we've just spoken about those pay negotiations.

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Speaker 1: We're just talking about the issues that we're grappling with

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Speaker 1: here in the Northern Territory. I, like I I'd be

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Speaker 1: absolutely stunned if they go down that path, given the

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Speaker 1: crime crisis that we've got.

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Speaker 3: It dumbfounds me really when you've got obviously there's there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of talk at the moment around you know,

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Speaker 3: should we bring in the FED. Shouldn't we bring in

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Speaker 3: the FEDS? We need forty extra cops here or forty

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Speaker 3: extra police here. You know, we actually don't have a

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Speaker 3: deployment capability in the long term for those sorts of

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Speaker 3: numbers as it is yet alone looking at cut cutting

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Speaker 3: staff into the future, that would be that would be

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Speaker 3: an absolute disaster.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Paul, just on those on the calls for the

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Speaker 1: FEDS to come in. And I know that you and

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Speaker 1: I have spoken about this before, but you know, look,

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Speaker 1: would it actually help? And you know this in no way,

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Speaker 1: shape or form is a criticism towards our Northern Territory police.

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Speaker 1: I see it as being a support for our Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory police to be able to potentially assist them if

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Speaker 1: that is what is required.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we've seen it in the past. Obviously

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Speaker 3: under the Stronger Futures on the Intervention of two thousand

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Speaker 3: and seven and then of course through COVID, we had

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Speaker 3: several federal police deployed across the territory to assist. So

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Speaker 3: it is a short term measure. But more importantly, and

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Speaker 3: something we've been putting out to the government for some time,

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Speaker 3: is you know we've got seventy five or thereabout some

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Speaker 3: police auxiliary liquor inspector positions across the territory that are

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Speaker 3: really restricted in the duties they can do. Now quite simply,

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Speaker 3: those positions, frankly need to be converted to constable positions,

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Speaker 3: seventy five more comfortable positions that can be deployed across

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Speaker 3: the entire territory, and you wouldn't need that, or that

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Speaker 3: question wouldn't be there about support from the FED.

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Speaker 1: Well, Paul mchue, the president of the Northern Territory Police Association,

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Speaker 1: I always appreciate your time. I'm pleased to hear that

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister did get in contact with you yesterday

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Speaker 1: following on from those remarks and we'll wait and see

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Speaker 1: if a statement comes out, but thank you very much

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Speaker 1: for having a chat with us this morning.

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Speaker 3: No worry, Thanks Katie, thank you