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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily.

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Speaker 2: Oh, this is the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday,

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Speaker 2: the fourth of July. I'm Sam, I'm Zara. Should sport

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Speaker 2: be free to watch? That's the question being debated in

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Speaker 2: Canberra and it's become a conversation about the role of

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Speaker 2: sport in Australian society, how TV works in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: four and what Australians deserve. In today's podcast, we're going

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Speaker 2: to bring you up to speed on the latest developments

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Speaker 2: from the Senate, how anti siphoning laws actually work and

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Speaker 2: what they mean and what happens next. But fer Sarah,

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Speaker 2: what is making headlines this morning?

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Speaker 3: A teenager arrested over an alleged stabbing at the University

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Speaker 3: of Sydney this week was known to police. The fourteen

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Speaker 3: year old boy allegedly stabbed a twenty two year old

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Speaker 3: student at the university's Camperdown campus on Tuesday. The student

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Speaker 3: was taken to hospital in a serious but stable condition.

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Speaker 3: While counter terrorism officers are investigating the incident, New South

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Speaker 3: Wales Police Minister Yasmin Catley told the ABC that the

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Speaker 3: boy had previously been arrested over an undisclosed matter last year.

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Speaker 3: She said, and I quote kids who are being radicalized

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Speaker 3: online need support services, and she noted the team has

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Speaker 3: been attending a program facilitated by the state's Community and

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Speaker 3: Justice Department.

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Speaker 2: Online retailer Buuktopia has entered voluntary administration. It comes after

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Speaker 2: the Australian book selling platform announced a restructure last month,

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Speaker 2: including at least fifty possible job cuts. After attempts to

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Speaker 2: raise emergency funding failed, an independent accounting firm was appointed

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Speaker 2: to wrap up Buoktopia's operations. This could include managing its

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Speaker 2: sale to another company. The retailer's value has declined significantly

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Speaker 2: since it became a publicly listed company on the ASX

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty. Sopias Shaprice has dropped from two dollars

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Speaker 2: thirty to four point five cents in that time.

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Speaker 3: Google is set to fall short of its net zero target.

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Speaker 3: That's according to new data from the tech giant itself.

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Speaker 3: Google committed to net zero emissions by twenty thirty. However,

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Speaker 3: its latest environmental report shows Google's greenhouse gas emissions increased

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Speaker 3: over the last year by thirteen percent, with overall emissions

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Speaker 3: up forty eight percent from twenty nineteen. Google blamed the

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Speaker 3: emissions on increased energy consumption to support artificial intelligence technologies.

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Speaker 2: And today's good news. Public health authorities in the US

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Speaker 2: have approved a breakthrough Alzheimer's treatment. The injection has been

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Speaker 2: given the green light by the Food and Drug Administration

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Speaker 2: and will be used to treat patients who are at

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Speaker 2: a mild stage of dementia or have a mild cognitive impairment.

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Speaker 2: The injection can be administered around once a month, and

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Speaker 2: researchers found it was able to successfully reduce the effects

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Speaker 2: of Alzheimer's on patients. So, Zarah, you got back from

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Speaker 2: your honeymoon on the weekend, and.

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Speaker 1: Manytimes, do you think we're going to reference it this week?

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Speaker 2: It was a big It was a big void, and

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Speaker 2: now that void is filled. But we haven't done one

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Speaker 2: important thing, which is I haven't talked to you yet

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Speaker 2: about sport. So welcome to today's podcast. What was the

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Speaker 2: last sporting match you properly watched on TV?

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Speaker 3: I think I probably passively consumed an AFL game.

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Speaker 2: All right, so you're on the couch, you're watching the D's.

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Speaker 2: How did you watch that?

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Speaker 1: On seven plus?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: The app because we don't have an antenna at home,

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Speaker 3: so everything's on the Internet.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's a pretty common story for a

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Speaker 2: lot of people our age. So you go in, you're

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Speaker 2: smart TV.

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Speaker 1: No, it was really technologically savvy there.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's TV's with that sort of functionality aren't that

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Speaker 2: expensive anymore. And I also have a TV at home

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Speaker 2: that's connected to a streamer, but when I go to

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Speaker 2: my parents' house, it's connected to the tenor and I

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Speaker 2: click nine to watch Channel nine. And last year's World

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Speaker 2: Cup was an interesting kind of turning point I think

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Speaker 2: for how people watch sport. So there were three point

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Speaker 2: six million people who watched a Matilda's match on a

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Speaker 2: streaming device.

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Speaker 1: Fascinating.

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Speaker 2: It's a lot of people. So we're talking here laptops, iPhones,

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Speaker 2: TVs that don't have antenna's And it's really called into

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Speaker 2: question the way that our law governs what sport's free

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Speaker 2: and what sport isn't and how that legislation matches with

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Speaker 2: the way that we consume television. And so that's been

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Speaker 2: the big topic in Canberra yesterday and I was keen

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Speaker 2: to talk to you about it this morning. It's called

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Speaker 2: the Communications legislation, Amendment prominence and Anti Siphoning bill, whole

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Speaker 2: other dragon there.

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Speaker 3: I was going to say, not the most thrilling of

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Speaker 3: legislative names, but it taken me a bit to get

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Speaker 3: my head around this story, and so I do really

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Speaker 3: just want to start at the beginning as to why

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Speaker 3: this has come about in the first place, Like, what's

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Speaker 3: the context, Why are we talking about whether sport should

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Speaker 3: be free or not? As someone that has missed this story,

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Speaker 3: start at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the theory that sits behind all of

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Speaker 2: this is that national sports and national sporting moments are

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Speaker 2: important to an Australian society. And whether that's because it

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Speaker 2: encourages people to pick up a new sport or a

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Speaker 2: new exercise and it's a healthier country, or it improves

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Speaker 2: the social fabric of the people around us. The government

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Speaker 2: has recognized since about the nineties that not just.

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Speaker 3: The current government, no, no, it's of every persuasion definitely.

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Speaker 2: So since the nineties there's been this regime called the

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Speaker 2: Anti Siphoning Legislation, and that was made when the government

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Speaker 2: made a list of sports that they decided at the

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Speaker 2: time should be televised free to the general public.

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Speaker 1: So just stop there.

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Speaker 3: So you're saying, in the nineties, there was this recognition

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Speaker 3: that some sporting moments should be free to watch because

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Speaker 3: of XYZ whatever reasons that were given, and there is

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Speaker 3: legislation to protect the fact that those sports should be watched.

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Speaker 1: For free, exactly, and it's called anti siphoning.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's the big TA items. So think the Olympics,

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Speaker 2: the Paralympics, the AFL, the NRL netball. There's a literal

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Speaker 2: list of ten sports and a couple of every four

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Speaker 2: year events that are protected by this law.

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Speaker 3: And so they should be free to access, which means

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Speaker 3: that they should be on like the Channel seven's, the

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Speaker 3: Channel nine, abcsbs, those things that you don't need to

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Speaker 3: pay to access.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they remain on that list until six months

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Speaker 2: before the event actually takes place. And before that cut

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Speaker 2: off point, the freeware broadcasters, so the sevens and nines

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Speaker 2: and tens, they still have the opportunity to bid against

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Speaker 2: each other, but they don't have to bid against say

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Speaker 2: a Foxtel or a paid streaming or cable network. After

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Speaker 2: that point where it's six months ago, none of the

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Speaker 2: freeware networks want it. Then it's opened up. So at

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Speaker 2: that point PATV providers so KO, now Amazon Prime is

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Speaker 2: getting into sport, Netflix is getting into sport. They can

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Speaker 2: make offers to the sports to broadcast those events, and

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Speaker 2: that's done very formally, with the Minister literally saying it's

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Speaker 2: open to everybody now. And the bit where it gets

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Speaker 2: a little complicated is that PayTV providers can also make

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Speaker 2: bids before that if one of the free broadcasters has

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Speaker 2: said yep, we want that sport, that doesn't override the bid.

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Speaker 2: Kind of think of them as two separate bids. So

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Speaker 2: for example, the AFL is broadcast on both KO and

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Speaker 2: Channel seven, but it's then up to us as viewers

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Speaker 2: to pek where we choose. And the important thing for

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Speaker 2: the government is that it is available for free somewhere.

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Speaker 2: So as long as it's available for free on a

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Speaker 2: television somewhere, they kind of don't mind what happens on

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Speaker 2: the side with the PAITV networks as well.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so you're saying there that while it has to

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Speaker 3: be available on a free to air channel, so it

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Speaker 3: has to be available on say Channel seven or Channel

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Speaker 3: nine or whatever it is, it can also be available

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Speaker 3: on a KO or an Amazon Prime or a stand sport.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it just can't only be available on paid one.

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Speaker 1: If that's how it's been working until now, what's the

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Speaker 1: issue here?

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Speaker 2: So the government introduced a new bill last year that

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Speaker 2: would amend this law to separate the rights into two buckets.

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Speaker 2: So you've got broadcast rights and streaming rights, and so

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Speaker 2: this separates the rights from Channel nine, which you can

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Speaker 2: watch if your TV is connected to an antenna, to

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Speaker 2: nine now and under this bill those are treated as

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Speaker 2: basically different things. So on the broadcast right bucket, which

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Speaker 2: is channel nine, in this situation, nothing is going to change.

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Speaker 2: There's still going to be that list of sports that

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Speaker 2: the government has that has to be available for free

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Speaker 2: somewhere on TVs with antennas. But for the new bucket,

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Speaker 2: this bucket that's called the streaming bucket.

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Speaker 1: The one the ware watching.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so nine now would be the equivalent here, and

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Speaker 2: this law would mean the right to watch sport for

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Speaker 2: free would be taken away from the current way the

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Speaker 2: streaming bucket is framed. So for you or I, this

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Speaker 2: bill which again it hasn't passed yet, you know it's

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Speaker 2: being discussed in parliament, it means that if you're at

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Speaker 2: a TV with an antenna, you can watch sport for free,

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Speaker 2: but if you're relying on your TV that's connected to

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Speaker 2: the internet, you might have to pay to watch a

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Speaker 2: big sporting event because stan or Ko, which you have

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Speaker 2: to pay for to access, may have the streaming rights

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Speaker 2: over the nine Niles or the seven pluses.

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Speaker 3: Because streaming has been separated from broadcasts under this legislation.

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Speaker 3: So even if the NRL ground Final is on seven

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Speaker 3: for free, if you don't have free to AIRTV and

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Speaker 3: a streamer has brought up the rights digitally, you'd have

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Speaker 3: to pay for access to that exactly.

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Speaker 2: And one of the other arguments the government makes in

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Speaker 2: supporting why they're taking this route with the bill is

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Speaker 2: that Communications Minister Michelle Rowlands says that for most major

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Speaker 2: sports and sporting events, the rights are already guaranteed to

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Speaker 2: be on free to wear streamers as well as free

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Speaker 2: to air aeral broadcasters until kind of the early twenty thirties.

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Speaker 2: So take the Olympics, for example, Channel nine have the

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Speaker 2: rights to that until after the Brisbane twenty thirty two Olympics,

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Speaker 2: and she kind of says that in the meantime they'll

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Speaker 2: work on frameworks to ensure that there's some consistency across

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Speaker 2: both buckets, and.

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Speaker 3: I want to get to the reasons why there is

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Speaker 3: some opposit position to this proposal. But before we get there,

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Speaker 3: are there any other reasons that the government has said

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Speaker 3: that this is important?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there's kind of two main ones to

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Speaker 2: point out here, and if you look at the bill

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Speaker 2: as a whole, one of the things the government is

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Speaker 2: really pushing is the fact that they've included new sports

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Speaker 2: into that list of anti siphoning sports. So the ones

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Speaker 2: that have to be free on aerial television, and in

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Speaker 2: that list are things like the AFLW, the NRLW, the Paralympics,

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Speaker 2: and there's some really important additions to that group of

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Speaker 2: sport and it feels very much more relevant to where

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Speaker 2: we're at in twenty twenty four. The other big point

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Speaker 2: to emphasize is the fact that the government's arguing that

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Speaker 2: there is a new competitive environment with these streamers, and

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Speaker 2: that because of trends where more of us are using

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Speaker 2: the Internet to watch television, these streamers should have as

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Speaker 2: much access to the sports that we all love to

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Speaker 2: watch as the traditional media players who own the broadcast channels.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so I understand that the government would be pushing

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Speaker 3: this sort of legislation to I guess reflect modern day reality,

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Speaker 3: which is that there are a lot of people who

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Speaker 3: access information and watch you many things, including sport in

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Speaker 3: different ways. What's some of the opposition to this bill being.

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Speaker 2: So the main opposition voices in this discussion are the

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Speaker 2: Greens and a group called Free TV Australia, and they're

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Speaker 2: a group that represents the freeware networks, so the ones

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Speaker 2: that get plugged into the wall, and they're really focused

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Speaker 2: on what they say as a loophole in the bill

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Speaker 2: that leaves those without an aerial TV connection without the

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Speaker 2: same rights to the free sports on that anti siphoning

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Speaker 2: list than those who can plug their TV into a

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Speaker 2: wall and have an aerial and ultimately that will force

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Speaker 2: consumers like you and I to take out the subscription

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Speaker 2: to a paid service like a KO, Netflix or Amazon

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Speaker 2: Prime if they want to watch that sport. This is

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Speaker 2: what Green Senator Sarah Hanson Young had to say on

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Speaker 2: Sunrise this week.

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Speaker 4: Our country, he has celebrated watching sport together, celebrating the wins,

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Speaker 4: commiserating the losses together. It's such an important part of

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Speaker 4: who we are as a nation. I'm really pushing the

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Speaker 4: government don't lock out half the country.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's what the Greens are saying in Free TV,

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Speaker 3: whose job it is to lobby for those networks. How

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Speaker 3: does the government respond to this?

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Speaker 2: Well, what I found interesting about trying to think through

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Speaker 2: the answer to that question, Zara, is that the two

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Speaker 2: groups are really operating on quite different sets of statistics.

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Speaker 2: So the government, specifically the Communications Minister Michelle Rowland, she

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Speaker 2: says that according to the department's research, the majority of

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Speaker 2: Australians do still have access to TV programs through an

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Speaker 2: aerial TV, so this won't be alienating Australians in the

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Speaker 2: way that she says the Greens are proposing. But on

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Speaker 2: the other side of things, the Greens are relying on

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Speaker 2: research presented by Free TV Australia, who's that peak body

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Speaker 2: representing the broadcasters, and that research shows that only twenty

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Speaker 2: nine percent of Aussies are watching TV exclusively through an

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Speaker 2: aerial and of that twenty nine percent, there's another eighteen

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Speaker 2: percent who are looking at switching to digital really soon.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so hypothetically this bill passes as it currently stands.

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Speaker 3: Can you just give me a bit of a scenario

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Speaker 3: as to what it could be like for the average

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Speaker 3: punter who just wants to watch the AFL Grand Final.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the AFL Grand Final. I'm sure this one's

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Speaker 2: are going to be there this year. I'm a diehard

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Speaker 2: Swans fan. That's my disclaimer. That game is going to

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Speaker 2: be available to stream on A seven plus for example.

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Speaker 2: Now fast forward twelve months, that game might only be

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Speaker 2: able to be streamed on KO, which is thirty bucks

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Speaker 2: a month. And that's because the same rights that extend

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Speaker 2: to an aerial broadcast of the Grand Final won't extend

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Speaker 2: to a digital broadcast.

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Speaker 3: I feel like, in the broader kind of conversation about

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Speaker 3: how we adapt to new realities, like new tech realities

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Speaker 3: like streaming giants and the like, this is not a

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Speaker 3: uniquely Australian thing to be experiencing. Certainly, we are a

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Speaker 3: sport obsessed country, but have we You've got any other

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Speaker 3: examples of what this looks like, like what the framework

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Speaker 3: looks like in other countries.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I fully agree. I think we're kind of developing

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Speaker 2: legislation and ideas around how we should be ingesting entertainment

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Speaker 2: and sport in real time. Take Netflix for example. There

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Speaker 2: was a sentiment almost around this time last year that

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Speaker 2: they almost saturated the movie viewing streaming market around the world,

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Speaker 2: and the next frontier for them was sport, and so

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Speaker 2: in Australia, one of their first major acquisitions in sport's

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Speaker 2: going to be the WWE Wrestling and that's going to

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Speaker 2: be only broadcast on Netflix. But if we take a

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Speaker 2: more mainstream example, this year, Netflix brought the rights to

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Speaker 2: the NFL games that are played on Christmas Day, which

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Speaker 2: are big, you know, families gathered around the TV style events,

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Speaker 2: and that kind of means that for a diehard NFL

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Speaker 2: fan who would want to watch every single game of

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Speaker 2: the season that's now spread out across seven different streaming

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Speaker 2: subscription networks, is that on free to air Some games are,

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Speaker 2: but if you want to watch every single game of

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Speaker 2: the year, you know, you might have to sign up

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Speaker 2: to one to watch the Thanksgiving game, and you have

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Speaker 2: to sign up to another one to watch the Christmas

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Speaker 2: Day game. You might have to sign up to one

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Speaker 2: to watch Super Bowl. And that's probably the extreme example

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Speaker 2: of a really fragmented rights situation which could be really expensive.

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Speaker 3: A very interesting piece of legislation, and certainly one I

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Speaker 3: would have possibly missed. So Sam thank you for explaining that.

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Speaker 3: And if you are interested in sport, you don't have

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Speaker 3: to be a die hard fan. You can sign up

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Speaker 3: to our daily sport newsletter. It's very good, even if

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Speaker 3: I say so myself. We will chuck a link in

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Speaker 3: today's show notes and you can sign up there and

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Speaker 3: it'll be in your inbox tomorrow morning. In the meantime,

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Speaker 3: thanks for joining us today and we'll be back again tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 2: Bunjelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 2: Gadigel people and pay respect to all Aboriginal and torrest

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Speaker 2: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 2: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.