1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh, 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: Daily OS. It's Thursday, the fifteenth of May. I'm Lucy Tassel, 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: I'm Sam Kazlowski. A new bill in New South Wales 5 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: Parliament has reignited a debate around abortion, six years after 6 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: the state decriminalized the procedure. Parties have allowed their members 7 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: to choose how they vote. Protesters have gathered outside Parliament, 8 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: and one Upper House MP has compared abortion to Nazi Germany. 9 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: In today's show, we'll explain why the medical procedure was 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: up for discussion once again and what is changing. 11 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: Lucy, I'd really appreciate if you started this off by 12 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 2: kind of setting the scene for us, not just of 13 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: the status of abortion in New South Wales but across 14 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 2: the entire country. Give us a sense of how the 15 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: law looks right now. Yeah. 16 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: Absolutely, abortion is legally accessible in every jurisdiction around Australia. 17 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: In New South Wales specifically, it was decriminalized in twenty nineteen. 18 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: Anywhere in the world that abortion is safely accessible, there 19 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: are two kind of main ways that you can get One. 20 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: There's what we call medical abortion and surgical abortion. I'll 21 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: just talk very briefly about surgical procedures because that's not 22 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: the focus of today's discussion. Basically, that's when you're put 23 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: under some form of sedation or anesthetic. In New South Wales, 24 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: doctors can perform them up to twenty two weeks gestation. 25 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: After that point, if there are sufficient grounds and if 26 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: you have the approval of at least two doctors, then 27 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: you can have that procedure. That is in very rare 28 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: cases where the pregnancy's not going to continue or there's 29 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: a significant risk to the life of the mother. 30 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 2: Okay, and so what's medical abortion. 31 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's involving pills. These can be performed up 32 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: to sixty three days gestation. There's two medications they're given separately. 33 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: They're called mifa pristone and misaprostol. It's typically sold as 34 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: MS two step. It's actually been available in Australia to 35 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: some extent since nineteen ninety six, so my whole lifetime, 36 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: and since twenty thirteen it's been listed on the Pharmaceutical 37 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: Benefits Scheme or the PBS, which means the government subsidizes it, 38 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: and so that means it costs a maximum of currently 39 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: thirty one dollars sixty. 40 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: And you said at the top though, that there's a 41 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: new debate about abortion in the New South Wales Parliament. 42 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: What is that debate centering on? 43 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: So earlier this year Green's MP Amanda Cone introduced a 44 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: bill in the Upper House. She was elected in twenty 45 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: twenty three, so she's a relatively new MP. And Cone 46 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: is also a doctor who has performed abortions. Just to 47 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: be super clear, very briefly, New South Wales has two 48 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: houses of parliament. There's the lower House where your local 49 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: member sits, and the Upper House where the members represent 50 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: the whole state. The government forms in the lower House. 51 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: That's typically where bills get introduced, but not exclusively. You 52 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: can introduce a bill in the upper House, it then 53 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: goes down to the Lower House, a reversal of what 54 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: usually happens. But it goes down to the lower House, 55 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: it might get amended and then it can become law 56 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: from there. So this began in the upper House and 57 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 1: has only been debated in the lower House this week. 58 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: And so she brought this bill in the upper House. 59 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: That's slightly unusual but not unheard of. 60 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: What was she seeking She wanted to allow registered nurses 61 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: and endorsed midwives. These are professionals who undergo special training 62 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: to prescribe abortion medication. That would bring New South Wales 63 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: in line with other jurisdictions, including Queensland and the Act. 64 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: That part is what has been debated in the Lower 65 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: House this week. The first draft of Khne's bill, however, 66 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: had a few other things it wanted to do. It 67 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: would have required the government to ensure abortions are accessible 68 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: quote within a reasonable distance of residents' homes. It also 69 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: sought to change how conscientious objections to abortion work. Now, 70 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: what that means is currently under the law, if a 71 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: doctor has a moral objection to providing an abortion, they 72 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: must tell their patient where they can access. 73 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 2: One, so they're not compelled to perform the abortion themselves, 74 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 2: but they have to provide a pathway for the patient 75 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 2: to access one. 76 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: Yes, and Cone wanted to strengthen that pathway. She wanted 77 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: to make it so that doctors would be required to 78 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: actually refer patients to someone who is willing to provide 79 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: an abortion, so really actively taking that step rather than 80 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: simply telling their patient this is where you can go, 81 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: like making that phone call themselves right. 82 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,799 Speaker 2: Interesting. Okay, so it's less about sending them a link 83 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 2: for another clinic nearby. It's a formal referral, I guess 84 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 2: in a letter. Yes. 85 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: However, those bits did not pass the Upper House, but 86 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: the bit about nurses and midwives did pass, and that 87 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: ended up passing the Lower House on Wednesday as well. 88 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: That was interesting because it's typically harder for a member 89 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,239 Speaker 1: of a party that's not in power to pass a bill, 90 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: but this bill went to something called a conscience vote, 91 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: which means parties could make up their own minds individually, 92 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: rather than making a decision as a whole collective, which 93 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: is what they typically do the major parties. 94 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: We're going to be back with the rest of the 95 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: deep dive after a quick message from our sponsor. Do 96 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 2: we have any sense of the positions of the various 97 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 2: members of the party. 98 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, So the Greens supported their colleague, as did Sydney 99 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: Independent MP Alex Greenwich and Premier Chris Mins also supported 100 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: the bill. I should note that many of the current 101 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: MPs across both houses of Parliament were in Parliament in 102 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen when the original bill was passed. Since we've 103 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: only had one state election since then. Yeah, One such 104 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: MP is Upper House National Sarah Mitchell. She said she 105 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: had some concerns with the bill, but said overall she's 106 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: pro choice and her opinion has not changed since twenty nineteen, 107 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: when she also voted in favor of decriminalizing abortion. I 108 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: also wanted to read a bit of what Labor Lower 109 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: House MP doctor Michael Holland said. He represents the regional 110 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,799 Speaker 1: electorate of Beager, where he worked as a doctor for decades, 111 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: and that is sort of the exact regional areas that 112 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: Cone was targeting with her original bill, and also, I 113 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: mean with the finalized bill too, in terms of making 114 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: abortion more accessible, allowing more people to prescribe it could 115 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: in some way reduce the strain on country gps, make 116 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: it easier for people to access it. Here's what Holland said. 117 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: He said, quote, I have the unique position of having 118 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: held the curet, held the forceps, and held the scalpel. 119 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: He's referring that to the instruments used in surgical abortions. 120 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: He said, I cannot say that I have not had 121 00:06:55,320 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: conflict over ethical reproductive issues. No doctor enjoys performing a boards. 122 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: They are confronting procedures for doctors and the healthcare professionals 123 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: who assist them. But it is the women who choose 124 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: or need an abortion who are the focus of our 125 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: clinical care. And it is the responsibility of government to 126 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: provide safe and accessible reproductive healthcare. So some fairly strong 127 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: words from someone who has been in the situation that 128 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: CONE is attempting to remedy. 129 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: What's really interesting about this is the two voices who 130 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: you've focused on, the CONE and that member you just quoted, 131 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: they're both former doctors. Yeah, that's quite a high concentration 132 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: of medical professionals in a kind of political setting. Yeah, 133 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 2: I know, we've got a couple of doctors in federal 134 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 2: politics and across the states and territories. But that's interesting. 135 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: And so you've mentioned they're the Labor Party, the Greens 136 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 2: and the Nationals. Have we heard from the Liberal Party 137 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: on this debate. 138 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: Yes, So one thing about a conscience vote is that 139 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: you're going to get very different views from people who 140 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,119 Speaker 1: are within the same part. So back in the Upper 141 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: House we heard from Liberal MP Chris Rath. He not 142 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: in Parliament for the twenty nineteen vote, he came in 143 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: afterwards and he said he opposed the bill in its entirety. 144 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: He cited his religious beliefs. He said he could not 145 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: support a bill that causes quote physical and psychological harm 146 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: to the mother and the intentional ending of a viable 147 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: baby's life. He went on to compare abortion, which he 148 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: described as quote taking the life of another being, to 149 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: the activities of the Nazi Party in Germany during World 150 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: War II. He has since apologized for this comparison. However, 151 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: within the same party, we had opposition leader Mark Speakman. 152 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: He gave a really interesting speech in support of the bill, 153 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: even though he is not personally in favor of abortion. 154 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: He said he opposed the decriminalization in twenty nineteen because 155 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: he's opposed to the procedure in general. However, he said 156 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: he doesn't believe increasing the number of people who can 157 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: prescribe the medication will increase the number of abortions overall, 158 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: and said, quote, some women who would be choosing abortions 159 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: anyway will now have access to earlier and less traumatic treatment. 160 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: Interesting kind of nuanced to take on it, yes. 161 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: But the real headline from his speech was that he 162 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: quoted from a letter he received from a woman called 163 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: doctor Joanna Howe. She's an anti abortion advocate and a 164 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: professor at the University of Adelaide, and she said she 165 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: would quote lead a public campaign aimed at encouraging a 166 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: grassroots opposition to his Liberal Party leadership if he voted 167 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: in favor of the bill. In response to that, he 168 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 1: said he would quote not cave to brazen bullying like this, 169 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: nor to the americanization of New South Wales politics, and 170 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: would ultimately vote in favor of the bill. 171 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 2: So striking, It's fascinating, and that's something I've been thinking 172 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 2: about through this chat, is the American flavor of this discussion. 173 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 2: I mean, it's been a major talking point in the 174 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: lead up to the second term of President Trump. Hasn't 175 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: been as much of a dominant issue in this first 176 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: one hundred days of his presidency, but I dare say 177 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 2: it will kind of come up again, especially with the 178 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: overturning of Roe v Wade a couple of years ago. 179 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 2: But returning now to New South Wales, there was a 180 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 2: comment there about a grassroots opposition. What has the reaction 181 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 2: been outside parliament? 182 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: So obviously just mentioned doctor Joanna Howe. She organized a 183 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: rally outside New South Wales Parliament last week which was 184 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: attended by a senior Catholic Church official Anthony Fisher and 185 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: former Prime Minister Tony Abbis. While it might be kind 186 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: of surprising that a former prime minister would come to 187 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: a state rally like outside of State Parliament for a 188 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: state bill, he has been vocally critical of abortion for 189 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: most of his political career. In two thousand and four, 190 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: while he was Health Minister, he called the country's rate 191 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: of abortion quote a tragedy, saying he didn't want to 192 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: stigmatize Australians who had had abortions, but wanted to quote 193 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: create a culture where people understand that actions have consequences 194 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: and called abortion an easy way out. 195 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: It is worth mentioning that Tony Abbott lives in Sydney, 196 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: so I didn't you know this is a geographically relevant 197 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 2: place for him to be. Yes, that's protesting, so that 198 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 2: that's worth mentioning. 199 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: That's true. At the time that he was Health minister, 200 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: anyone who wanted to take mith for pristone, so that's 201 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: one of the drugs that I mentioned earlier, had to 202 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: have his written permission. In two thousand and six, the 203 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: Federal government also held a conscience vote where it voted 204 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: to actually take that power away from Tony Abbott and 205 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: give it to the Therapeutic Goods Administration or the TGA, 206 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: that giving it them the power to approve its use, 207 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: which paved the way for it being listed on the PBS. 208 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: That all happened outside the walls of New south Well's Parliament, however, 209 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: where a bill to allow nasazimidwives to prescribe that same 210 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: drug has in fact passed. 211 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 2: Interesting topic and it's always fascinating to hear about the 212 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 2: different tracks that federal and state politics can take, even 213 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 2: when it comes through the same issue and approaching it 214 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: from so many different and nuanced angles. Lucy, thank you 215 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 2: so much for that, and thank you for joining us 216 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: on the Daily Ohs this morning. That's all we've got 217 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 2: for you for this episode, but we're going to be 218 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 2: back in your ears for this afternoon's headline. Some exciting news. 219 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 2: We have just launched a finance newsletter. I'll throw a 220 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 2: link to that in today's show notes. Some more great 221 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 2: work from the TDA team. We'll speak to you later. 222 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 223 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily os acknowledges 224 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: that This podcast is recorded on the lands of the 225 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 226 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: Strait island and nations. We pay our respects to the 227 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.