1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,640
Speaker 1: If you get interviewed by Kevin Kelly, sensible footwear is

2
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,840
Speaker 1: a must. No, seriously, the Wired co founder says taking

3
00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 1: a walk with a potential employee or teammate is essential

4
00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:18,040
Speaker 1: for any recruitment process. So what does Kevin ask about

5
00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,640
Speaker 1: on this walk? Why is going for a walk so important?

6
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,320
Speaker 1: And what are the key things that Kevin is listening

7
00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:31,400
Speaker 1: out for. My name is doctor Ramantha Imber. I'm an

8
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:36,479
Speaker 1: organizational psychologist the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and

9
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,440
Speaker 1: this is how I work, a show about how to

10
00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,720
Speaker 1: help you do your best work. On today is my

11
00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,080
Speaker 1: favorite Tip episode, we go back to an interview from

12
00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,760
Speaker 1: the past and I pick out my favorite tip from

13
00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,080
Speaker 1: the interview. So in today's show, I've got an extract

14
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,560
Speaker 1: from my chat with Kevin about how he decides who

15
00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:57,319
Speaker 1: to work with.

16
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,959
Speaker 2: I wish it collaborated even more than I do. I'm

17
00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,480
Speaker 2: kind of like more like a solo performer rather than

18
00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,039
Speaker 2: a big band. Wired was a big band and it

19
00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,200
Speaker 2: was really a lot of fun. Wholwarth was a big band.

20
00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,640
Speaker 2: I kind of miss that kind of collaboration with a

21
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,480
Speaker 2: big band. I've done a couple other projects where there

22
00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,040
Speaker 2: was more than one person involved in I miss that

23
00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,000
Speaker 2: I should be doing more of it. But that's the

24
00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,000
Speaker 2: question I keep asking myself. Okay, you know, now that

25
00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,280
Speaker 2: I'm sixty eight and a half, what do I want

26
00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,920
Speaker 2: to do when I grow up? And do I want to,

27
00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:36,120
Speaker 2: you know, still work with a duet, a small solo performers,

28
00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,600
Speaker 2: or do I want to have a band again? And

29
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 2: then to answer your question of how do I decide, well,

30
00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,919
Speaker 2: number one for me is do I really enjoy spending

31
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,640
Speaker 2: a lot of time with these other person or persons

32
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,840
Speaker 2: because we're going to spend a lot of time with them,

33
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:59,040
Speaker 2: and so that you know, compatibility friendy thing is hugely important.

34
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,120
Speaker 2: And I just simply don't work with people that I

35
00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:06,720
Speaker 2: don't like. It's like no amount of talent is enough

36
00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:11,880
Speaker 2: for me. Life is way too short. So I tend

37
00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,200
Speaker 2: to want to work with people that I want to

38
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,240
Speaker 2: be around with and hopefully they're smarter than me, and

39
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,799
Speaker 2: they're always more talented than me, and that makes it fun.

40
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,080
Speaker 1: What else did you think about, like when you were

41
00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,079
Speaker 1: recruiting your personal research assistance?

42
00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,960
Speaker 2: Well, I one of the things I did when I

43
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,520
Speaker 2: was evaluating them was I gave them and actually paid

44
00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,760
Speaker 2: for real work that would be the type that they

45
00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:43,240
Speaker 2: would be doing, so we could evaluate their work. And

46
00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,920
Speaker 2: to somebody you said, which is we're hiring for attitude,

47
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:52,360
Speaker 2: not for skills. That was a motto at Wired, hire

48
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,200
Speaker 2: for attitude, training for skills, because like we were inventing

49
00:02:55,240 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 2: the web, there're nobody out of the experience and design

50
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,320
Speaker 2: your programming the web. Because we were inventing it, it didn't exist.

51
00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,840
Speaker 2: So the only thing we could really hire for was

52
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,560
Speaker 2: attitude skill, I mean attitude and character and things like that.

53
00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:13,600
Speaker 2: And so that's sort of what I really look for.

54
00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,760
Speaker 2: I'd like to go for a long walk with the

55
00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:22,720
Speaker 2: candidates and you know, two things, to work with him,

56
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 2: to do work, have him do something with us for us,

57
00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:31,120
Speaker 2: and that's work. And then two take a long walk

58
00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,760
Speaker 2: with them and just you know, try to get a

59
00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,080
Speaker 2: beat on their character. And that covers it.

60
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,720
Speaker 1: What are you talking about on that walk? What are

61
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,360
Speaker 1: some of the questions that you're asking.

62
00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,600
Speaker 2: Well, anything except for work. With their hobbies are how

63
00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,119
Speaker 2: they how they spend the free time, cosmological questions, what's

64
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,480
Speaker 2: their favorite movie? Just anything except for the work.

65
00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,560
Speaker 1: That's an interesting thing that I feel like so few

66
00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:01,960
Speaker 1: people do when they're recruiting new people into a tame Yeah.

67
00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:07,480
Speaker 2: I guess the older I get, the more important it

68
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:12,520
Speaker 2: is to me for the character. I'm using it loosely

69
00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,880
Speaker 2: of people as we work, because in a certain sense,

70
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,599
Speaker 2: it's not that hard to make things. It's hard to

71
00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:29,600
Speaker 2: make things really really great, and there I find that

72
00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,800
Speaker 2: extra ten percent or extra one hundred percent, whatever it is.

73
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,960
Speaker 2: It really does come down to character and enjoying the

74
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,080
Speaker 2: time that you're working with other people, because you're going

75
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,040
Speaker 2: to be in overtime and having to work hard, and

76
00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:47,200
Speaker 2: so it wants to be for with people that you

77
00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:52,840
Speaker 2: respect and admire, and those kind of things are to

78
00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:58,279
Speaker 2: me crucial. I think money, even lots of money, is

79
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:05,120
Speaker 2: way overrated, and making money is sort of actually not difficult,

80
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:10,000
Speaker 2: but making something that you're proud of and doing it

81
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:15,840
Speaker 2: better each time is difficult. And so the character, the

82
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,919
Speaker 2: experience that we have, the human relationships that we have,

83
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,160
Speaker 2: all we're doing it to me become more and more

84
00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:30,360
Speaker 2: important than just the achievement of At the end, it's

85
00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,280
Speaker 2: kind of like, you know, the old thing about the

86
00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 2: journey is more impressive, more important than the destiny. And

87
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,440
Speaker 2: you know, like thinking back to Wired or whatever. We're

88
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,280
Speaker 2: very proud of those issues, but I have to tell

89
00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,600
Speaker 2: you some of those issues I've completely forgotten even what

90
00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:49,719
Speaker 2: we said, but I have not forgotten the people and

91
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,200
Speaker 2: the interactions that we had while we were doing it.

92
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,960
Speaker 1: How I Work is produced by Inventingum with production support

93
00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 1: from Dead Set Studios and a big thank you to

94
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,240
Speaker 1: Martin Nimber, who does the audio mix for every episode.

95
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,720
Speaker 1: That is it for today's show, and I'll see you

96
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:08,600
Speaker 1: next time.