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Speaker 1: There's been quite a bit of discussion since the age

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Speaker 1: of criminal responsibility was raised, some wondering what the change

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Speaker 1: is going to mean when we talk about young kids

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Speaker 1: who are offending and if there's going to be consequences

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Speaker 1: to their actions. Now joining me on the show is

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Speaker 1: the Deputy CEO of Territory Families, Jeanetteker.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Jeanette.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Katie, Thanks so much.

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Speaker 2: For your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: Now, firstly, can I ask how does the on the

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Speaker 1: Right Track program work?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so on the Right Track program, it's quite a

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Speaker 3: complex programmatic response to young people offending and what it

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Speaker 3: means is in terms of the evaluation, we'll be particularly

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Speaker 3: looking at ten and eleven year old children who are

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Speaker 3: now no longer criminally responsible, but we've also extended to

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Speaker 3: go to nine eight year old children and then children

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Speaker 3: up to fourteen who may not be able to be

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Speaker 3: criminally responsible because of a cognitive impem or something like that.

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Speaker 3: It's called dolly in capax. So what we do is previously,

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Speaker 3: if police were coming across young people engage in anti

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Speaker 3: social behavior or behavior that was offending nature prior to

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Speaker 3: these changes, then they would take the children and they

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Speaker 3: weren't criminally responsible or they were Dolly in capax. They'd

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Speaker 3: take the children home to a responsible adult, and if

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Speaker 3: there was no child protection concerns, as in immediate need

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Speaker 3: impact to their safety or well being, then that would

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Speaker 3: generally be the response, and territory families wouldn't get involved

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Speaker 3: until those young people were well and truly ingrained in

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Speaker 3: the criminal justice system, because our youth justice is post

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Speaker 3: offending our responsibilities generally. So what this means, and it's

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Speaker 3: a really quite an exciting innovation, is that children the

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Speaker 3: first time they get in trouble or kids out at

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Speaker 3: night eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve to forteen out at night,

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Speaker 3: the police get We've opened up a new referral pathway

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Speaker 3: in partnership with police that they let us know. Within

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Speaker 3: the next day these young people were out, this is

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Speaker 3: what they did. We did take them home. There's a

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Speaker 3: portal into our system. It's reviewed first thing the next day,

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Speaker 3: and we our staff turn up and meet with the

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Speaker 3: family and start delivering a programmatic response. It's a lot

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Speaker 3: more accountable for family and the young people and it's

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Speaker 3: also a lot more effective.

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Speaker 2: So can I.

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Speaker 1: Ask and I know that you're not going to be

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Speaker 1: able to go into detail of particular offenses or particular kids,

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Speaker 1: but I guess to give a bit of an example,

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Speaker 1: there was a situation yesterday where two women were assaulted

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Speaker 1: by a group of young girls in separate attacks in

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Speaker 1: Darwin City. One of those was an eleven year old

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Speaker 1: who was released as she's obviously under the age of

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Speaker 1: criminal responsibility. So again, I know you can't go into

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Speaker 1: individual cases, but in a situation like that, what would happen?

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Speaker 1: Would they be picked up by the police in the

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Speaker 1: first instance, and then territory families alluded immediately?

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Speaker 3: Yes, well, what would happen in this case? Is a

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Speaker 3: case similar to this is and I've got to say

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Speaker 3: it's a pretty amazing response across the old the whole

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Speaker 3: public safety network. With the apprehension at the transit center

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Speaker 3: or the bus exchange, what happens in is obviously they

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Speaker 3: go through the process regardless of age, of investigating, apprehending,

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Speaker 3: and going through all of the matters that would need

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Speaker 3: police generally do with that eleven year old. They would

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Speaker 3: be taken to a responsible adult and police would make

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Speaker 3: a referral to us. Now, obviously the investigators are really

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Speaker 3: busy because they're doing the apprehension for three people, there's victims,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of work to do, and so that

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Speaker 3: referral would come through to us pretty much immediately. And

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Speaker 3: if it's not through this morning, which I'm pretty confident

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Speaker 3: would be, we have mechanisms to follow up through the

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Speaker 3: Territory Safety Coordination Center. So there's a whole range of

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Speaker 3: mechanisms so kids don't slip through. So the Coordination Center

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Speaker 3: will identify these young people, Our intake service will identify

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Speaker 3: these young people and will already be talking and there'll

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Speaker 3: be someone turning up to visit that young person and

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Speaker 3: parents or cares today.

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Speaker 1: And so what if a young person, you know, they

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Speaker 1: if they then don't have somewhere that's safe to go,

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Speaker 1: or if there's not somebody responsible for them to go

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Speaker 1: back to.

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Speaker 3: Well, then they'd be taken into the care of the CEO.

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Speaker 3: If there was no responsible person, no one that could

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Speaker 3: safely look after that child, would they would enter into

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Speaker 3: the child protection statutory system.

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Speaker 1: So tell me then, I guess once you know, once

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Speaker 1: that elert kicks in and territory families, you know, territory

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Speaker 1: of families, So the next day, what are then the

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Speaker 1: options for a child that has engaged in criminal behavior.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So because these are young children, you know, eleven

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Speaker 3: being the oldest generally down to eight seven, whatever we

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Speaker 3: take into the program, you can't just work with the child.

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Speaker 3: We have to work with the whole family and the network.

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Speaker 3: So it starts off with quite a comprehensive assessment across

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Speaker 3: the family, family network meetings. Then agreements are developed that

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Speaker 3: it could include safety planning, responsibility agreements, educations involved because

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Speaker 3: these children should be going to school or involved in

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Speaker 3: some sort of education. And that's obviously the family and

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Speaker 3: the individuals and our respective agencies are held accountable for

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Speaker 3: delivering on that. And then in addition to that, if

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Speaker 3: other issue use and there's almost without exception, other issues

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Speaker 3: such as substance abuse, domestic violence, there might be overcrowding,

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Speaker 3: there might be a lack of food, there might be

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Speaker 3: an abuser in the system somewhere in relation to the children.

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Speaker 3: Then those additional issues that we work with, and then

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Speaker 3: we have a range of service partners that we refer

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Speaker 3: to as well as well in other drugs, etc.

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Speaker 1: And So, Jeanette, are kids forced to do those programs

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Speaker 1: or what's the process, Because I know a lot of

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Speaker 1: people have sort of when that age of criminal responsibility

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Speaker 1: was raised, there was that sentiment from some in the

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Speaker 1: community that we're going, well, there's not going to be

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Speaker 1: any consequence to their actions and they're not going to

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Speaker 1: be forced to sort of do a program. So what

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Speaker 1: is the situation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I completely understand that sentiment, And just like with

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Speaker 3: the criminal justice system, people make choices whether they engage

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Speaker 3: or not. And I think that you know, we call

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Speaker 3: it the skillful use of authority. Your so the issues are, yes,

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Speaker 3: you don't have to engage, but that will take people,

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Speaker 3: children and families down a different path. So if your

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Speaker 3: family refuses to engage in any program and there's continuing issues,

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Speaker 3: then obviously there's escalation into the statutory system. And indeed,

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Speaker 3: though of the families that we work with, it's very

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Speaker 3: very rare for a family not to engage at all,

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Speaker 3: and if they are not, then there's usually much greater,

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Speaker 3: more complex issues in that family that with almost about exception,

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Speaker 3: goes into the child protection system. The vast majority of

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Speaker 3: families want help and support. It might be a grandmother

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Speaker 3: with five kids they're trying to look after, and they're

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Speaker 3: often grateful and very willing to be involved.

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Speaker 1: I know that's going to that is going to concern

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Speaker 1: people listening to that sort of hearing that you don't

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Speaker 1: you know that you don't actually have to engage but

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Speaker 1: by sounds of things from your perspective. If that is

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Speaker 1: the case, then other mechanisms kick in to, you know,

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Speaker 1: to try to make sure that you're stopping those kids

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Speaker 1: from from doing the wrong thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, And we've got some pretty fantastic staff who

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Speaker 3: are very very good at engaging with families, have very

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Speaker 3: good at developing rapport and relationships, and so to date

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Speaker 3: we haven't had cases of people not not engaging.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Right, so everybody everyone's been open to us.

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Speaker 3: Yes, because often parents are struggling as well. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'm parent of a number of children myself that all

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Speaker 3: going through or are going through teenage years. And it's

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Speaker 3: a tough gig, it really is. And I know how

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Speaker 3: much I'm worried about my kids. I can't even imagine

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Speaker 3: how some other parents are coping.

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Speaker 1: Do tell us tell us about these twenty officers as

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Speaker 1: well that have that have appointed as I understand it,

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Speaker 1: as part of the on the Right Track program.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so we recruited there's twenty positions family safety offices

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Speaker 3: across the territory. They work very very closely with police

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Speaker 3: and education. Really pleased to say that there'll be education

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Speaker 3: staff working in the teams with us as well as

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Speaker 3: police and ARRET, and they'll be working very close with

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Speaker 3: child protection whatever's needed. And then obviously and non government stakeholders.

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Speaker 3: So they've been trained and deployed on the ground. Obviously

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Speaker 3: straight off there wasn't a raft of cases on the

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Speaker 3: right track, but they've picked up other cases from URRET

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Speaker 3: and voluntary eurot cases which would have potentially transitioned anyway.

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Speaker 3: So they're about getting in really early the next day,

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Speaker 3: being at the door, following up constantly doing whatever needs

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Speaker 3: to have happen with that family side by side to

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Speaker 3: get kids back to school, not out at night, whatever

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Speaker 3: the issues in the family are. It's a really intensive

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Speaker 3: wellbeing support model.

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Speaker 2: And they're based right around the Northern territory.

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Speaker 3: Pretty much, yeah, in the major centers, but we have

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Speaker 3: mechanisms across the territory the support.

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Speaker 1: Now, Jeanette, we spoke to the principle of you bur

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Speaker 1: in your school a couple of weeks ago about the

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Speaker 1: terrible situation that they'd seen where there were kids involved

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Speaker 1: in the theft of a vehicle and then the school bus. Now,

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Speaker 1: at the time, the principal had told us that there

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Speaker 1: was a child that was taken back to a tent,

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Speaker 1: and you know, he was questioning, you know, whether that

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Speaker 1: was sort of the appropriate response. Again, I know you

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Speaker 1: can't go into the details and ins and outs of

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Speaker 1: individual cases, but what happens in a situation like that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, is that sort of is that a response

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Speaker 1: outcome if you've got a kid that's being taken back,

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Speaker 1: you know, to attend in the Todd River.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, that's absolutely not a responsible outcome and I'm

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Speaker 3: pleased to say that wasn't the outcome. Anyone that sees

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Speaker 3: a child in that situation obviously should be making a report.

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Speaker 3: We have a whole range of programs in Central Australia

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Speaker 3: to support families like that. We have an assertive outreach

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Speaker 3: for rough sleepers. I'm not aware of individual that individual

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Speaker 3: case but in terms of their sleeping arrangements, but I

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Speaker 3: certainly know that there was a very very active and

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Speaker 3: intensive response to all of those young children involved.

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Speaker 1: And they are all in sort of environments at this

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Speaker 1: point in time that Territory Families feel is adequate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Now, I know we.

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Speaker 1: Have had people contacting us at different times over the months,

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Speaker 1: and not so much over the last couple of weeks,

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Speaker 1: but we have had people in contact with the show

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Speaker 1: sort of saying that kids that are in the care

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Speaker 1: of Territory families more so in that short term accommodation

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Speaker 1: I guess you would.

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Speaker 2: Call it or out of home care.

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Speaker 1: You know that they are in some of those homes

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Speaker 1: and that there's older kids coming to pick them up

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Speaker 1: and engage in criminal behavior. Is this a focus for

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Speaker 1: Territory families and have you had situations like that?

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Speaker 3: Look, I'm I guess the our home care system is

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Speaker 3: really broad from kinship and foster care right up to

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Speaker 3: intensive individual arrangements for young people. I respect people are

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Speaker 3: talking about the Intensive Therapeutic RESU care program. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: this is for young people from twelve to eighteen, who

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Speaker 3: is it's very it's a very relatively small number who

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Speaker 3: are the most vulnerable, most challenging young people to work with,

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Speaker 3: who generally in these are arrangements because they either don't

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Speaker 3: have family or family and others have given up on them.

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Speaker 3: So it's there are cases when those young people do

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Speaker 3: get in trouble with the law and they go through

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Speaker 3: the process the same as anyone else. But I can

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Speaker 3: absolutely assure the community that we invest very, very heavily

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Speaker 3: in a whole range of supports, accommodation, service providers for

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Speaker 3: those young people.

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Speaker 2: Janet, sorry you go.

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Speaker 3: No, some of them do end up in detention for periods,

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Speaker 3: and then that's often we like to use that as

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Speaker 3: an opportunity where we can absolutely do some very very

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Speaker 3: intensive work and assessment with those young people.

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Speaker 2: Do know we always get messages to the show.

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Speaker 1: I mean even these one this morning, you know, saying Katie,

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Speaker 1: I'm at Casarina. These kids here at Casarina that should

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Speaker 1: be at school. We get messages like that very often.

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Speaker 1: What work is done in that space, you know, when

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Speaker 1: you do have kids that should be engaged at school

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Speaker 1: and and they're clearly not if they're you know, if

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Speaker 1: they're loitering around the shopping centers or other areas.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, I've got to say that CATHERINEA. Square and

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Speaker 3: that whole precinct have been absolutely outstanding in terms of

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Speaker 3: implementing anti social behavior social ort of initiatives, including no school,

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Speaker 3: no service. We we and the police have worked very

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Speaker 3: very closely with them on that. So yes there will

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Speaker 3: be kids there, and yes there should be Yoret's patrolling

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Speaker 3: and youth engagement. I do know that there's an integrated

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Speaker 3: patrollers meeting daily there and which has made a market

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Speaker 3: difference to anti social behavior in the precinct. You know,

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Speaker 3: I can't say that we go and scoop up every

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Speaker 3: child that's not at school and the circumstances, but if

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Speaker 3: there was a group of young people they're you know,

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Speaker 3: causing trouble or loitering around, I'm absolutely confident that the

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Speaker 3: security at Casina would be onto the and that would

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Speaker 3: be communicated through the integrated Patrolers a network.

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Speaker 1: Now we have also received well unfortunately vision I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure whether you've seen it in the last twenty four hours.

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Speaker 1: It's been sent to us here at the station. I'm

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Speaker 1: happy toward it on to the department.

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Speaker 2: If required. Of young people chroming at a.

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Speaker 1: Cafe, I won't name that cafe, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: give them, you know, I don't want to sort of

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Speaker 1: put a bad spotlight on them because it's not their fault.

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Speaker 1: But kids chroming in broad daylight at that cafe in

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Speaker 1: the city.

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Speaker 2: It was on Monday.

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Speaker 1: From my understanding, has territory Families been made aware of

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Speaker 1: that and what is the response?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so I'm not aware personally if territory Families has

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Speaker 3: been made aware, but I'm more than happy to get

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Speaker 3: that footage and follow up on it. Generally, the response

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Speaker 3: would be, again, the Integrated Patrol Network we work closely

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Speaker 3: with security company in Dalen Police wouldbably be the lead

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Speaker 3: on this and it'd be taken through, referred through with

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Speaker 3: yourrett and the police and the patrollers and health departments

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Speaker 3: through to the Interagency Coordination Group. So happy to receive

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Speaker 3: that and happy to follow up.

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Speaker 1: It's unfortunately not the first time that we've been contacted

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Speaker 1: about young people criming in public places. I know, just

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago as well in Malac we

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Speaker 1: had callers contact us about that and there'd been sort

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Speaker 1: of a bit of discussion about whether people should call

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Speaker 1: the police or who they should call if they see

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Speaker 1: something like that going on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think there's a range of options there

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Speaker 3: where across you know, across the said, we're really concerned

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Speaker 3: about crime. It can be incredibly dangerous and it's not

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Speaker 3: something that we want to get a foothold because it

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Speaker 3: can it can spread, so we're really keen to jump

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Speaker 3: on that quickly as a collective agencies and the NGOs.

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Speaker 3: So if people do see it, I would recommend that

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Speaker 3: they call. They can also take the opportunity and refer

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Speaker 3: it through to territory families. But an immediate response to

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Speaker 3: identify who the young people are through police or through

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Speaker 3: some of the anti social behavior apps the patrollers. If

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Speaker 3: it's a public housing area, it can go to public

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Speaker 3: housing safety officers. We could so there's a whole range

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Speaker 3: of mechanisms. But if an immediate response in relations to

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Speaker 3: safety the children is needed, that would be police. And

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Speaker 3: then there can also be a referral to us. But

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Speaker 3: without us knowing who it is or having an address,

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Speaker 3: a residential address, it's really hard to identify the kids.

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Speaker 3: So genetical please would then refer to us.

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Speaker 2: Are you seeing an increase in criming?

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Speaker 3: I don't think so. There's always something that comes in

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Speaker 3: fits and starts. Actually think it's less now than it

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Speaker 3: has been. You know, say around Christmas January February, we

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Speaker 3: were seeing a little quite a bit in we won't

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Speaker 3: say quite a bit, a bit, Yeah, I'm more obvious

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Speaker 3: in the city, and there's been a few pockets out

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Speaker 3: in the northern suburbs. But when we can identify the

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Speaker 3: young people, we can put in programs. We can either

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Speaker 3: get them to a circuit breaker program out of Darwin

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Speaker 3: or a VSA program or something like that. And generally

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Speaker 3: the croming is foot because there's some very deep trauma

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Speaker 3: underneath that, and so that's the stuff that we need

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Speaker 3: to work with. Make sure the kids got somewhere safe

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Speaker 3: to live, that they've got food, that they're being cared for.

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Speaker 1: Hello, Yes, Territory Families Deputy CEO, Jeanette Kerr, we are

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Speaker 1: going to have to leave it there for this morning.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for talking us through a bit more of

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Speaker 1: the detail about the on the Right Track program, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll probably talk to you again soon.

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Speaker 3: That'd be great.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you,