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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, kids need to have a radar, they need to

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Speaker 2: understand what's going on online and that not everybody is

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Speaker 2: who they say they are when they're online.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the scars of our show, My Mum

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Speaker 1: and Dad.

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Speaker 3: A quick content warning for today's podcast.

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Speaker 4: While not explicit, the material that we're sharing today may

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Speaker 4: not be suitable for younger listeners. Parental discretion is advised.

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Speaker 4: We're having a conversation today with Detective Superintendent Jane Crossling.

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Speaker 4: Jane is from the Australian Center to Counter Child Exploitation

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Speaker 4: also known as ACE, essentially Australian Federal Police looking after

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Speaker 4: our kids online. Jane, really an absolute delight to be

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Speaker 4: able to speak with you on the Happy Families podcast today.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for joining me.

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Speaker 5: Thank you Justin.

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Speaker 4: Can you tell us a bit about what ACE does,

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Speaker 4: the A triples EACE, What do you guys do with

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Speaker 4: the AFP.

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Speaker 2: So, it's a center, it's based in Brisbane and it

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Speaker 2: is led by the Australian Federal Police and it is

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Speaker 2: essentially the front door for reporting of crimes associated with

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Speaker 2: children being exploited online. So we take all of the

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Speaker 2: reports that have an Australian nexus from all the social

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Speaker 2: media services, and really importantly we take reports where someone

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Speaker 2: under the age of eighteen has been exploited online where

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Speaker 2: either the offender or the victim is Australian.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I want to just differentiate between what you do

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Speaker 4: and what the E Safety Commissioner does, because they look

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Speaker 4: after a whole lot of bullying stuff online. They look

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Speaker 4: after all sorts of sordid and challenging things that are

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Speaker 4: occurring online. How is ACE with the AFP different to

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Speaker 4: the Australian Government's E Safety Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: So we very much work closely with the a Safety

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Speaker 2: Commissioner and we have an excellent partnership.

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Speaker 5: The E Safety Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: Is responsible definitely for cyberbullying in the child context, image

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Speaker 2: based abuse where it relates to an adult, and they

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Speaker 2: are also responsible as the regulator for content that any

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Speaker 2: Australians have access to. They have tremendous powers to be

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Speaker 2: able to remove content if it is harmful, of horrent

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Speaker 2: or essentially illegal. We in the Australia, for the police

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Speaker 2: and certainly the ACE, are responsible for investigating crimes associated

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Speaker 2: with children being abused online.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so I have an example that I want to share.

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Speaker 4: It is quite sensitive, and, as I shared at the

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Speaker 4: start of the podcast, listener discretion is advised, but if

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Speaker 4: you've got tweens or teens, it's probably worth hearing this

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Speaker 4: story and being aware that this stuff happens. So a

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Speaker 4: mum contacted me maybe four or five weeks ago. She

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Speaker 4: said that her teenage son came into the bedroom crying.

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Speaker 4: He was really distressed. She managed to help him to

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Speaker 4: be calm, said what's going on? He said, Mom, I

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Speaker 4: just I need to borrow five hundred dollars And she said, sweetheart,

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Speaker 4: what do you need five hundred dollars? You've never asked

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Speaker 4: for money before. What's going on? He said, I can't

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Speaker 4: tell you. I just need the five hundred dollars. She said, kiddo,

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Speaker 4: I love you and I will give you the five

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Speaker 4: hundred bucks if it's appropriate, but I need to know

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Speaker 4: why you need five hundred dollars and why.

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Speaker 3: You're so distressed about it. What trouble are you in.

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Speaker 4: Eventually he calmed down enough to tell her that he'd

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Speaker 4: met this really, really gorgeous girl online. She was from overseas.

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Speaker 4: She'd been snapchatting with him. She was a friend of

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Speaker 4: a friend of a friend. They'd gotten a little bit

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Speaker 4: intimate in their snapchat messaging. Then after a couple of

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Speaker 4: weeks of this, she had sent him an image.

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Speaker 3: Of herself completely naked, send a nude image.

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Speaker 4: Via Snapchat, which he was obviously enticed and aroused by,

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Speaker 4: And then she sent another one and said, now it's

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Speaker 4: your turn. You need to send me one. He did that,

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Speaker 4: and then she disclosed to him that she wasn't actually

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Speaker 4: who she said she was, and she was I don't

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Speaker 4: know some middle aged men overseas and unless he could

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Speaker 4: send a couple hundred dollars in bitcoin immediately, that image

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Speaker 4: that he had sent, the nude image of himself to

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Speaker 4: her was going to be shared with every everybody in

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Speaker 4: his online directory, on his Facebook, on his Snapchat, on

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Speaker 4: his TikTok, but the whole lot was going to go

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Speaker 4: out to everyone parents' grandparents of the lot. He actually

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Speaker 4: made a transfer of a couple of hundred dollars in bitcoin.

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Speaker 4: Then she said, or he said, or the offender said,

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Speaker 4: actually that's not quite enough.

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Speaker 3: Now I need five hundred.

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Speaker 4: And at that point he realized he was out of money,

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Speaker 4: he didn't have any options, and he went to his

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Speaker 4: mum and said, I really need help. This is I

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Speaker 4: guess the kind of work that you're dealing with regularly.

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Speaker 4: This is that exploitation online that you're describing.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you have provided what is precisely the scenario that

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Speaker 2: we are seeing play out across Australia.

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Speaker 3: Jane, how much happened? Like? How much is this happening?

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Speaker 4: Because we're hearing about online fraud and online hacking and

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Speaker 4: online scams more.

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Speaker 3: Than we've ever heard before.

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Speaker 4: How much is this child tweeneen online sexual exploitation happening?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So these groups that are behind it definitely predominantly offshore.

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Speaker 2: So these are the same groups that have been scamming

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Speaker 2: us through a variety of different types of scams for decades,

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Speaker 2: and they have evolved so now they are seeing young

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Speaker 2: people as targets, particularly westernized countries. So Australia in that regard.

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Speaker 5: Is not immune.

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Speaker 2: So the reports that we are getting, we're averaging about

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Speaker 2: one hundred children and all their families coming forward to

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Speaker 2: various Australian authorities each month in Australia right now, and

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Speaker 2: that is trending upwards. The way that you describe that

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Speaker 2: scenario is precisely how it does tend to play out

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Speaker 2: so a young person, and it's predominantly boys at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Our data shows it's ninety two percent of boys are

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Speaker 2: actually being victimized with this particular type of scam, and

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Speaker 2: it plays out differently between girls and boys. But what

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Speaker 2: generally happens is that they're friended on a party, get

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Speaker 2: a platform, and then moved very rapidly to a different

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Speaker 2: platform where they can chat in more relative privacy, so

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Speaker 2: it might be some sort of encrypto chat platform.

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Speaker 5: The conversations frequently turn.

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Speaker 2: Very sexualized, and there is, as you describe, that sharing

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Speaker 2: of sexualized image read by the offender who is often

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Speaker 2: purporting to be a very attractive female in the boys scenario,

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Speaker 2: and then the request comes out for the boy to

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Speaker 2: produce self produced imagery of himself and then share it,

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Speaker 2: and then that extortion or sextortion that we've referred to,

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Speaker 2: then that takes place.

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Speaker 5: They frequently ask for a very very high amount of

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Speaker 5: money that is inconceivable for a young person, and they

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Speaker 5: at times enter into negotiations, and just like in.

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Speaker 2: Your scenario, sometimes payment does not make the problem go away.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes that just is the start of it. They will

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Speaker 2: continue to demand payment over a period of time. So

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Speaker 2: this is really worrying us. We believe that it's severely underreported.

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Speaker 2: So I said that we're getting about one hundred reports

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Speaker 2: a month. We believe that it is far more prevalent

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Speaker 2: than we're aware of. We are hoping that we do

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Speaker 2: two key things right now, two things driving and reporting.

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Speaker 2: So reporting really needs to come into the ace predominantly.

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Speaker 5: We need to have those reports, and then also prevention.

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Speaker 2: We need to find ways to reach into the hearts

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Speaker 2: and minds of young people so that they know the signs,

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Speaker 2: they know how to detect when the scam might be

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Speaker 2: playing out right in front of their eyes.

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Speaker 4: Don't know if you can answer this one or not, Jane,

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Speaker 4: but are there any specific platforms that parents should be

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Speaker 4: particularly mindful of where this kind of exploitation occurs more

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Speaker 4: than perhaps other platforms? Is there any is there anywhere

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Speaker 4: that's safer? Is there anywhere that's less safe?

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Speaker 3: Statistically, we get this.

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Speaker 2: Question a lot justin and we do try to not

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Speaker 2: demonize particular platforms, particularly if they can be used in

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Speaker 2: a relatively safe manner. So Essentially, the platforms are the

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Speaker 2: types of platforms that young people typically congregate on. They're

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Speaker 2: the ones these scammers. They are essentially about making money.

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Speaker 2: This is a whole new type of offending that we

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Speaker 2: haven't necessarily had to deal with in the past. When

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Speaker 2: we've dealt with offenders, it's because they have a sexual

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Speaker 2: interest in children. This is not the case with this

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Speaker 2: particular cohort. This is organized crime based offshore who are

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Speaker 2: seeing these children as a money making opportunity and they're

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Speaker 2: being completely exploded financially and do not care about the

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Speaker 2: impact on young people and the effects across the community.

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Speaker 2: So the platform will be something that is attractive to

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Speaker 2: young people generally, but it doesn't.

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Speaker 5: Really matter what that platform is.

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Speaker 2: They're moved off that platform so rapidly onto encrypt chat.

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Speaker 4: Jane, I want to highlight something that I think is

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Speaker 4: critical here, and that is how few parents are really

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Speaker 4: engaging with what their children are doing online.

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Speaker 3: So, as you're aware, I travel around the country.

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Speaker 4: I give lots and lots of talks all over the

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Speaker 4: place in schools, in corporates and all sorts of organizations,

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Speaker 4: and whenever the topic moves to the digital space, we

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Speaker 4: see a massive decline in parents showing up for these

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Speaker 4: parent evenings or showing up for the toolbox talks at

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Speaker 4: lunch time. It's almost like there's this passive disinterest. It's

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Speaker 4: kind of like, oh, look, the kids are going to

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Speaker 4: be on the screens and they'll be fine. Why is

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Speaker 4: it do you think that parents are less likely to

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Speaker 4: be engaged and what can we do to help parents

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Speaker 4: to be more in on this suff because clearly it's

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Speaker 4: affecting their children in significant and concerning ways.

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Speaker 2: Yes, until it actually happens to a child or someone

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Speaker 2: close to a family group, yeah, I don't think they

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Speaker 2: fully appreciate the impact of when things go wrong online.

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Speaker 2: So this is a problem that the strength of the

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Speaker 2: police has grappled with for a while now. We do

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Speaker 2: have an online safety program, could think you know, and

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Speaker 2: that is an opportunity to have people come and speak

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Speaker 2: to parents, teachers and carers, and yeah, we get mixed

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Speaker 2: face to face attendance at these sorts of events. We've

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Speaker 2: grappled with that challenge of how to engage the potentially

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Speaker 2: disengaged parents, and we've also done some market research to

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Speaker 2: show and it confirms exactly what you're seeing anecdotally it

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Speaker 2: confirms that only about half of parents know what their

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Speaker 2: children are doing online and would know how to have

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Speaker 2: a conversation about what their child is doing. The really

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Speaker 2: critical message that if we only have one key message,

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Speaker 2: is that parents need to talk to their children. Parents

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Speaker 2: need to understand.

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Speaker 5: How much of a part online.

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Speaker 2: Behavior is of a young person's life, and they need

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Speaker 2: to talk to their children about what they're doing and

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Speaker 2: help them understand to recognize that there is sometimes suspicious behavior.

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Speaker 5: Going on online.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So there are two questions that come out of

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Speaker 4: this conversation that we're having here. The first one is

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Speaker 4: how do we prevent a scenario like I shared and

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Speaker 4: like you've described from occurring in the first place. The

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Speaker 4: second question is what do we do if it happens?

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Speaker 4: So can we just go to question one? This is

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Speaker 4: the thing, you know, kind of content, This is the

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Speaker 4: idea where we're saying parents just be involved. But what's

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Speaker 4: the central message that you would give to parents to

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Speaker 4: help their kids to make safe, healthy decisions online.

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Speaker 5: So I would absolutely say from a prevention standpoint, kids

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Speaker 5: need to have a radar.

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Speaker 2: They need to understand what's going on online and that

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Speaker 2: not everybody is who they say they are when they're online,

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Speaker 2: and I believe that these sorts of messages are caught

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Speaker 2: throughout all the stages of the young person's development. But

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Speaker 2: I think the key thing that a parent or a

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Speaker 2: care can do in the home environment is to reinforce

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Speaker 2: those messages.

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Speaker 5: So kids need to have.

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Speaker 2: An appreciation that they needed a little bit of sense

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Speaker 2: checking when someone wants to friend them, and then they

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Speaker 2: need to also understand when a conversation might turn very

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Speaker 2: very sexual, very rapidly, what's behind that, what's going on there?

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Speaker 5: And is there an opportunity to.

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Speaker 2: Educate the kids to have better judgment when it comes

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Speaker 2: to having these conversations in a highly sexualized way with

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Speaker 2: someone that they genuinely don't know.

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Speaker 3: Follow up question number one, how do you help kids

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Speaker 3: to recognize that friends of friends of friends aren't really friends?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a challenge.

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Speaker 2: I think they need to be just a little bit

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Speaker 2: more circumspect in their decision making online and I agree

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Speaker 2: it is an absolute challenge, and it means that we

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Speaker 2: have to keep being consistent with our messaging.

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Speaker 5: Having law enforcement come into the school environment, and we

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Speaker 5: certainly do that.

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Speaker 2: The program that the AFP runs trains all the state

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Speaker 2: and teratorary police, and then they go into the school

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Speaker 2: environment to deliver directly to the young people in an

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Speaker 2: age appropriate and segmented way. But it's going to have

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Speaker 2: to be a consistent effort and everyone's going to have

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Speaker 2: to be united in their messaging so that young people

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Speaker 2: learn that discretion and learn to make some really safe

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Speaker 2: choices when they're operating online.

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Speaker 4: Okay, follow up question number two. How quickly do these

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Speaker 4: sex storders, these groomers, how quickly do they step into

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Speaker 4: sexualized conversation and start to make demand. I mean, in

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Speaker 4: the example that was shared by the mom that spoke

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Speaker 4: with me, this occurred over a couple of weeks. Is

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Speaker 4: that standard? Does it happen faster? Is that particularly quick?

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Speaker 4: What's the typical time frame that you're seeing this kind

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Speaker 4: of thing happen.

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Speaker 2: We are seeing a slight variation, but it can be

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Speaker 2: very very rapid. We're seeing it, particularly for some of

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Speaker 2: the younger victims. We're seeing that it's been very rapid

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Speaker 2: in terms of turning towards being sexual. So you know,

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Speaker 2: the friending happens very rapidly, then very very rapidly being

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Speaker 2: moved to a different platform.

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Speaker 5: That's an indicator.

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Speaker 2: So this is something that we could highlight to young

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Speaker 2: people to say, you know, there should be some suspicion

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Speaker 2: there where you've been friended rapidly and then very rapidly

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Speaker 2: moved off that platform to another platform. And there are

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Speaker 2: other clues that a young person may not be all

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Speaker 2: that sophisticated in picking up. But these are the sorts

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Speaker 2: of clues that we've had to determine over the years

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Speaker 2: so that we as adults are able to avoid scams.

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Speaker 2: And that could be signs that there are inconsistencies, and

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Speaker 2: there are may be signs that they don't have English

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Speaker 2: as a first language.

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Speaker 5: That's another sign.

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Speaker 2: And they may make excuses to say, oh no, I

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Speaker 2: actually can't turn on my webcam or my microphone's not

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Speaker 2: working so that they can stick to chat. Because the

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Speaker 2: organized crime syndicate behind all of this have only instructed

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Speaker 2: all of their workers who are just operating, probably out

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Speaker 2: of some sort of call center overseas, and they're told

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Speaker 2: that the crime is facility had better if they just

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Speaker 2: stick to the chat rather than dealing with microphones and

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Speaker 2: obviously exposing themselves via a video to not being an

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Speaker 2: attractive female.

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Speaker 5: But these are all nuanced and sophisticated. So I think

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Speaker 5: it all is necessary that parent.

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Speaker 2: Help have that conversation based on their understanding of their

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Speaker 2: own child and their understanding of you know, scams more

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Speaker 2: broadly as well, and I think that can help alleviate

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Speaker 2: and work towards our prevention goal.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so that's prevention. What about when it's happened?

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Speaker 4: What about when you have to be the ambulance at

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Speaker 4: the bottom of the cliff rather than the fence at

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Speaker 4: the top.

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Speaker 3: This mum, she's had her son make a fairly substantial

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Speaker 3: error of judgment.

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Speaker 4: Now he's distressed, his sexual imagery is going to be

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Speaker 4: potentially in fact, in this case, it was sent to

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Speaker 4: grandparents and unties and uncles. It was sent to everybody

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Speaker 4: in his friend's list, which caused considerable distress. How how

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Speaker 4: do parents deal with that scenario? What happens when it's

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Speaker 4: too late?

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Speaker 5: Firstly, reporting very important, So we're.

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Speaker 4: Going to link to We're going to link to the

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Speaker 4: ACE website for reporting, But could you just share with

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Speaker 4: a now as well?

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Speaker 3: What's the website and how do people make this report?

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Speaker 2: So there's a web form on the ACE website which

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Speaker 2: is a triple C dot CoV dot au and we

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Speaker 2: can absolutely provide a link that will take the listening

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Speaker 2: community straight to that particular form, plus other resources more

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Speaker 2: broadly as well. So just to answer your question, we

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Speaker 2: can come autt this from two angles. One is the

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Speaker 2: messages for the parents themselves and then also ways in

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Speaker 2: which we can support the victim as well. So for

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Speaker 2: parents and carers, we obviously want them to talk to

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Speaker 2: their children already, we really advocate for a very open

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Speaker 2: relationship when it comes to online behavior, and we believe

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Speaker 2: that if you can find an opportunity to set the

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Speaker 2: groundwork there as a young person moves to the different

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Speaker 2: phases of their online behavior, that should something wrong, they're

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Speaker 2: more likely to take a problem to the parent. So

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Speaker 2: some parents express reluctance, and you know, they're claiming that

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Speaker 2: they're too ignorant to understand what's going on.

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Speaker 5: We say to parents, push past all of that. Don't

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Speaker 5: be hung up.

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Speaker 2: On the platform or the technology or anything like that.

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Speaker 2: Get to the heart of what the problem is and

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Speaker 2: get to the heart of you know, what's gone wrong online.

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Speaker 2: So we know that teenage particularly males, are coming forward

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Speaker 2: to parents in the event that they do, and even

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Speaker 2: if that is after the a sextortion threat has actually

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Speaker 2: played out. We really hope that parents can be understanding

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Speaker 2: in that very first disclosure, that they understand the problem

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Speaker 2: for what it is and understand that the child here

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Speaker 2: in this scenario is a victim and that they need support.

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Speaker 4: So don't add to their suffering. Don't rip into them

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Speaker 4: and say what were you thinking? Because now's not the

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Speaker 4: time talk to them about that stuff later.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right. So I think for many parents it

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Speaker 2: will be very hard to not have that immediate impulse

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Speaker 2: to sort of say, im a goodness, what have you done?

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Speaker 2: And it's very challenging as a parent to hear that.

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Speaker 2: But you'd have to stay very very calm, I think,

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Speaker 2: and we absolutely understand that it can be very distressing

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Speaker 2: not only for the job, but for the parent community

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Speaker 2: as well to know that this has happened to your child.

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Speaker 2: And I think parents have to acknowledge too that this

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Speaker 2: could actually have long term impacts. So regardless of whether

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Speaker 2: or not there was payment, regardless of whether or not

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Speaker 2: the images.

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Speaker 5: Were ultimately shared, this.

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Speaker 2: Could still have long term impacts on a young person.

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Speaker 2: So that's where we moved to the victim support. We

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Speaker 2: absolutely appreciate from a young person's perspective why they would

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Speaker 2: want to hide this behavior and think that they have

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Speaker 2: enough in their toolkit to fix the problem themselves.

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Speaker 5: But as we know, that's absolutely not true.

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Speaker 2: So we're trying to encourage young people to step forward

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Speaker 2: and tell a parent. It's so important that if a

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Speaker 2: young person does do that, that the parent then actually

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Speaker 2: listens and takes action.

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Speaker 5: So part of it is listening and part of it

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Speaker 5: is actually following up and taking action.

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Speaker 2: What's usually happened as well, as you know, the behavior

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Speaker 2: that we've already described is that the offender will tell

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Speaker 2: the young person that what they've done is actually a crime,

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Speaker 2: and that serves as a further way to manipulate the

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Speaker 2: young person to not report, to not tell parents or

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Speaker 2: law enforcement.

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Speaker 5: So we really want to.

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Speaker 2: Emphasize the fact that do not buy into that they

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Speaker 2: have to report it and the young person will not

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Speaker 2: be treated as a criminal, because of course that's a

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Speaker 2: barrier for a young person coming forward if they thought

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Speaker 2: that they would be treated as a criminal.

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Speaker 5: So the offenders will use a range of tactics.

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Speaker 2: They'll use fear, they'll use shame, they'll manipulate a young

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Speaker 2: person they'll make them feel alienated or trapped. So the

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Speaker 2: only way to break that cycle is by getting a

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Speaker 2: parent or an adult some sort involved.

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Speaker 5: Until law enforcement can get.

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Speaker 2: Involved, we don't know whether or not we have to

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Speaker 2: intervene in other legal ways as well, so that's why

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Speaker 2: it's critical.

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Speaker 5: Additionally, as soon as law enforcement can know.

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Speaker 2: The size and shape of the problem, we can actually

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Speaker 2: take action from an investigative standpoint, and this is what

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Speaker 2: we're doing.

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Speaker 5: We're finding ways.

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Speaker 2: To disrupt this behavior at a very high level, and

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Speaker 2: that's all playing out right now, but only because reporting's

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Speaker 2: being driven into us, so that's the criticality of it.

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Speaker 5: But in order for us to actually wrap the support

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Speaker 5: around the victim.

397
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Speaker 2: And get them access to the support services that they need,

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Speaker 2: and we can't do that without the victim actually revealing

399
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 2: this initially to family and then ideally to law enforcement.

400
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 2: So from a parent perspective, avoiding blame is so incredibly important,

401
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 2: and then working out what more help does that child need.

402
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 2: Do they actually need to engage with professional support services

403
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Speaker 2: as well?

404
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 4: My guess is that they shouldn't pay any money. What's

405
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Speaker 4: your advice around this from what we're.

406
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Speaker 2: Seeing with this particular crime, we would recommend not paying.

407
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Speaker 2: We think that's really important because in the scenario you described,

408
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Speaker 2: even though payment had been made, they demanded more. We believe,

409
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Speaker 2: and this is consistent with other types of scams as well,

410
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Speaker 2: that don't send any more money, certainly, don't send any

411
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Speaker 2: more images or video, even if they continue to threaten,

412
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Speaker 2: and even if they eventually share it. So essentially that's

413
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Speaker 2: the worst thing that could have happened, and it did happen,

414
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Speaker 2: and then you.

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Speaker 5: Deal with that particular problem.

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Speaker 2: But there's no guarantee that if you pay that that

417
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Speaker 2: wouldn't have happened as you saw in that scenario.

418
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Speaker 5: So even if.

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Speaker 2: We are complying with demands, there's no impetus or that

420
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Speaker 2: particular organized crime group to stop.

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Speaker 5: So we would say do not pay.

422
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Speaker 4: When I hear you say that, Jane, it's fascinating to

423
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Speaker 4: me because it aligns with a story that I heard

424
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 4: just a couple of years ago from a mum of

425
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 4: a young lady who was approached online. She was sex staughted,

426
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 4: she was threatened once she had shared the image if

427
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 4: she didn't pay, that those images were going to be shared.

428
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Speaker 4: She went to her mum and said, here's what's happened.

429
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Speaker 4: I've sent a topless image of myself to somebody who's

430
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Speaker 4: not who they said that they were. She was in tears, devastated,

431
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 4: thought it was the end of her life. She also

432
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Speaker 4: came from an Islamic family from overseas, very very strict family,

433
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Speaker 4: and she was terrified that the shame that she had

434
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Speaker 4: brought on to her family was going to literally cause

435
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 4: horrendous problems, massive overstated enormous problems. Her mum gave her

436
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 4: a big huggen said, we will let everybody know and

437
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 4: we will tell them that it wasn't you, that somebody

438
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 4: has done some fancy photoshopping and it's not actually you,

439
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 4: but we have been targeted. So this mum essentially said,

440
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 4: we're gonna lie to the whole family, say that you

441
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 4: were targeted.

442
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 3: You didn't do it, but they're pretended that.

443
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 4: You have, and that will pacify all of the family

444
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Speaker 4: members who are going to be up in arms. But

445
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Speaker 4: I thought, what a wise way to respond if the

446
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 4: photo gets out there, If the image is out there,

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00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 4: just say guess.

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Speaker 3: What it was photoshopped?

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Speaker 4: Or so we have a teenager who did something dumb,

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00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 4: and we're going to love our teenager in spite of

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00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 4: the dumb thing, It's been a really profound lesson for everybody.

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Speaker 4: And I'm so sorry that you had to see that

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Speaker 4: image and just let it go, don't make a big

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Speaker 4: deal about it.

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Speaker 3: I thought it was great advice.

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00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 2: I do think that as well, because basically, the worst

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Speaker 2: thing that you thought was going to happen has happened.

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Speaker 5: Then you stepped through with your parents' support.

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Speaker 2: I just think that's that's the only way to deal

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00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: with it properly and minimize it's not eliminate, but minimize

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00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,120
Speaker 2: the harm.

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Speaker 4: I'm listening to everything that you're saying, Jane, and I'm

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00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 4: thinking to myself, who does this? Like what kind of

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00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 4: what kind of a person actually gets online and does

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Speaker 4: this and tries to cause this level of pain and

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Speaker 4: challenge in a young person's life. It's just it's staggering.

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00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 4: Such an important conversation. So for people who want more information,

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00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 4: more resources around the things that we've discussed today, because

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00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 4: we've really only scratched the surface, whereabouts would you send them?

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00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 4: We'll obviously link to it in the show notes, but

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00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 4: where would you have them go?

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00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 2: We have a response kit that describes the problem and

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00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 2: describes how to address it, So we'll absolutely provide you

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00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 2: the link to that. That's a really handy document also

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00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 2: available online. And you know, there's an opportunity there for

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00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 2: parents to educate them more broadly as well about other

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00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 2: things that we're seeing. So right now, for us, this

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00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 2: is one of the most critical issues that we're facing.

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Speaker 2: We don't have a full picture, but this could actually

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00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 2: be linked to youth suicide. That's how seriously we are

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00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 2: taking this particular problem right now, and we may never

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00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 2: know whether or not this has actually had that type

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00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 2: of impact on a young person. So this is why

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00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 2: right now, this is where so much of our effort

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00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 2: is being placed. But that's not to say there aren't

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00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: other really serious crimes playing out impacting on young people

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00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 2: all the time. So for parents, there's going to be

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00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 2: those resources there, there's the ability to report, there's the

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00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 2: ability to also protect and prevent as well through this

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00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 2: response kit.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Detective Superintendent Jane crossling such an important conversation. Jane

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00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 4: is from the Australian Center to Counter Child Exploitation h

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Speaker 4: l CE known as ACE, with THISTRAI and Federal Police.

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00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 4: Fascinating conversation, devastating conversation. Really grateful for the work that

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00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 4: you do and for the things that you shared with

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00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 4: the state to help parents to navigate an increasingly complex

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Speaker 4: parenting world.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Detective Superintendent Jane Crossling.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, Justin.

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Speaker 4: Detective Superintendent Jane Crossling from the Australian Center to Counter

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Speaker 4: Child Exploitation with the Australian Federal Police has been our guests.

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Speaker 3: All of the resources, all of the places you.

503
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 4: Can go to get support are available in the podcast

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00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 4: show notes today. Thank you so much for listening. I

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00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 4: hope it's been a help podcast. As always, the Happy

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00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 4: Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media,

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00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 4: with Craig Bruce as our executive producer. For more information

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00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 4: about making your family happier and protecting them, please check

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00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 4: out happy families dot com.

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Speaker 3: Do you