1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Kalkutin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Friday, 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: the seventh of October. I'm Sam, I'm Zarah. The World 9 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 2: Bank says we are not on track to meet its 10 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 2: goal of ending extreme poverty by twenty thirty. In fact, 11 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 2: despite some promising signs of progress this century, their latest 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: report says that over the past couple of years things 13 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 2: have actually gone backwards. We're going to explain what's going 14 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 2: on in today's deep dive, but first, Zara, what is 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: making headlines this morning. 16 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 3: Treasurer Jim Chalmers has said the government's position on keeping 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 3: the Stage three tax cuts hasn't changed and he's promised 18 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 3: to deliver a budget that's quote as sustainable footing as 19 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 3: it can be. While speaking at a presser yesterday, Chalmers 20 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 3: said the government's priority was to ensure that budget spending 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 3: is quote responsible, affordable, sustainable and sufficiently targeted to the 22 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 3: current challenges faced in Australia. 23 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 2: The Australian Federal Police have charged a nineteen year old 24 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: man for allegedly attempting to use stolen Optus customer data 25 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 2: in a blackmail text message scam. It comes after ninety 26 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 2: three Optus customers were sent a text demanding a two 27 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 2: thousand dollars bank transfer to spare the use of their 28 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: personal information for financial crimes. 29 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 3: Sydney has officially recorded its Weddi year on record following 30 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 3: another heavy day of rain on Wednesday of a two 31 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 3: one hundred and ninety nine millimeters of precipitation have been 32 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 3: recorded in Sydney. With eighty five days still left in 33 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 3: the year. 34 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 2: And some good news to end out your week, Nicole 35 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: Man has become the first Native American woman in space. 36 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: This week, Man took off from NASA's Kennedy Space Center 37 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 2: in Cape Canaveral, Florida, and also made spaceflight history as 38 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: the first Indigenous woman in orbit. Prior to liftoff, Man 39 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: said it was important that we celebrate our diversity and 40 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 2: really communicate that specifically to the younger generation. The World 41 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 2: Bank has said its goal to end extreme poverty by 42 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 2: twenty thirty is not on track. There's been a lot 43 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 2: of pretty concerning economic news lately, both in Australia and 44 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: on a global scale, but this new report from the 45 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: World Bank is really worrying. I want to get into 46 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: how we measure global poverty and how we know things 47 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 2: have changed. But first, Zara, take us through what the 48 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 2: World Bank is and why are they responsible for keeping 49 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 2: us updated on poverty around the world. 50 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 3: Okay, so to your first question, the World Bank is 51 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 3: an international institution. It's made up of one hundred and 52 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 3: eighty nine member countries and it's basically responsible for providing 53 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 3: loans and grants to help countries develop their economies. It 54 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 3: was founded at post World War II so that countries 55 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 3: could work together to rebuild the global economy, which had 56 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 3: obviously faltered. But these days its focus is on community 57 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 3: led development projects and what we like to call knowledge sharing. 58 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 3: So the World Bank keeps track of all the different 59 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 3: economies in the world and it tries to boost them 60 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 3: from the ground up. That's why it makes sense that 61 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 3: they track poverty rates because they've a vested interest in 62 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 3: really bringing up communities and lifting them out of poverty 63 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 3: to strengthen the country's overall financial status. In twenty fifteen, 64 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 3: in cooperation with the UN, the World Bank set a 65 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 3: range of long term goals, and it's crazy to think 66 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 3: we're nearing the end of some of these. And those 67 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 3: goals were to try and make the world a better place, 68 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 3: and ending extreme poverty by twenty thirty was one of them. 69 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 3: But as of today that goal looking increasingly unachievable. 70 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: Let's dive into the language for a minute. We're going 71 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 2: to be using the word poverty or the phrase extreme 72 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 2: poverty a lot in this conversation. So can you explain 73 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: for me how the World Bank defines those terms. 74 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 3: Yeah. Sure, So we would all have a conceptual understanding 75 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 3: of poverty, which is, a person living in poverty might 76 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 3: have little to no money available to them, little to 77 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 3: no ability to fulfill basic human needs, or both. Poverty 78 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 3: is also defined by how difficult it is for a 79 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 3: person or a community to change their situation and how 80 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 3: resilient they can be when disaster strikes, whether that disaster 81 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 3: be something like a global or session or like a 82 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 3: climate catastrophe. 83 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 2: And I guess knowing how we define who is living 84 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 2: in poverty, but then also trying to figure out how 85 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 2: many people there are living in poverty are two totally 86 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 2: different things. How does the World Bank measure poverty in 87 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 2: the country. 88 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, so measuring poverty, as you can imagine, isn't entirely straightforward. 89 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 3: It can be measured in an absolute way, which means 90 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 3: setting a global standard for poverty like a dollar a day. 91 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 3: It can also be measured in a relative way, meaning 92 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 3: compared to others in the same country. This is how 93 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 3: we measure it here in Australia. But it's important to 94 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 3: note that those are just financial measures. We can also 95 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 3: measure non financial poverty, such as access to education or 96 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 3: access to clean water. Ultimately, the World Bank uses a 97 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 3: combination of these two measures. For their latest report, they 98 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 3: measured how many people were living in poverty based on 99 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 3: the number of people estimated to be living on less 100 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 3: than two US dollars and nineteen cents a day. 101 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 2: And give me those numbers. How many people are we 102 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 2: talking about? 103 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 3: So the World Bank estimates seven hundred and nineteen million 104 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 3: people were in extreme poverty at the end of twenty twenty, 105 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 3: and that six hundred million will remain in poverty by 106 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 3: twenty thirty. Around seventy million people were pushed into poverty 107 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty alone. That's the biggest single year increase 108 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 3: since monitoring began in the nineties, And in twenty twenty 109 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: two they're estimating between six hundred and fifty and seven 110 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 3: hundred million people will live in extreme poverty. 111 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: And were things going better before twenty twenty. 112 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 3: As with most things, yes, things were better before twenty twenty. 113 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 3: Pre twenty twenty, poverty levels were falling steadily. The World 114 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: Bank belieze progress started slow in twenty twenty one and 115 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 3: twenty twenty two. 116 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: And that's clearly the big change there would be the 117 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 2: COVID pandemic. Do they think that that had an impact 118 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 2: on global poverty that were seen being played out in 119 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:25,679 Speaker 2: the stats? 120 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, So the pandemic had a lot of different impacts 121 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 3: on poverty. It put pressure on health systems, as we 122 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 3: know all too well, It led to a significant number 123 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 3: of deaths, and it disrupted education due to school closures. 124 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 3: In general, these factors were worse of course for developing countries, 125 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 3: where medical care and education were already likely to be unstable. 126 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 3: Then alongside this, it also disrupted economic activity. Again, people 127 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 3: in developing countries were hit harder, in part because their 128 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: governments did not have the resources to provide the financial 129 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 3: support to mitigate the fallout for example that we saw 130 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 3: here in the same Australia. 131 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 2: We're going to take a short break, we'll be right back. 132 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 2: So we've got two big issues there. We've got the 133 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: pandemic and then the economic activity. What other factors were 134 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 2: at play. 135 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 3: Like many other things that we would talk about on 136 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 3: this podcast. The other big impact the World Bank talks 137 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 3: about is the war in Ukraine, in particular the fact 138 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 3: that Ukraine has traditionally served a lot of food exports, 139 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 3: and also that there's been a significant impact on the 140 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: global gas and oil supply, and this has caused long 141 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 3: ranging and flow on effects to all kinds of big 142 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 3: and small economies. At the end of the day, it 143 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: comes back to this idea of resilience that we spoke 144 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 3: about a bit earlier, where if you're already in a 145 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 3: financially unstable position, you are much more likely to be 146 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 3: pushed into poverty or kept in poverty by global disasters. 147 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 3: And that is true at every point of the spectrum 148 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 3: ranging from individual people to whole national economies. The report 149 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 3: that we're referencing from the World Bank today says higher 150 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 3: income economies are more resilient in the face of shocks 151 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 3: because their households and firms are endowed with wealth and 152 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 3: superior health and education systems, and thus are able to 153 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 3: adapt to changing circumstances. It all adds up to the 154 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 3: fact that if more people are sliding into extreme poverty 155 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 3: in the early twenty twenties, this goal of ending extreme 156 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 3: poverty by twenty thirty is really looking pretty hard to meet. 157 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: Okay, that's pretty dire to think about what would need 158 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 2: to change for the world to reverse that and meet 159 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 2: their goal by twenty thirty. 160 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 3: Well, the World Bank has made some policy recommendations for 161 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 3: governments of developing countries to try to stem the tide. 162 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 3: They say, if governments invest in education and infrastructure, increase 163 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 3: property taxes, introduce carbon taxes, and give poorer people money 164 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 3: directly instead of things like giving energy bill credits, which 165 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 3: typically only benefit people who are ready wealthy, then we 166 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 3: could see some short term changes leading to hopefully long 167 00:08:59,360 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 3: term growth. 168 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: It's a little confronting that the World Bank has made 169 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 2: this call in twenty twenty two, already eight years before 170 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: the deadline that they imposed for these goals. It's nice 171 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: to know, though that there is the possibility of change, 172 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: but we will have to wait and see which governments, 173 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 2: if any, take the World Bank up on their recommendations. 174 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on the Daily OZ today. If 175 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 2: you learn something from today's episode, don't forget to hit subscribe, 176 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: so that means that there'll be a TDA episode waiting 177 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 2: for you bright and early on Monday morning. Have a 178 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: fantastic weekend for those in the Eastern States, stay dry, 179 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 2: and we'll be back again next week.