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Speaker 1: Get a. I'm Laala Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter

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Speaker 1: and professional oversharer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure

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Speaker 1: because I believe it's a chance for us to learn,

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Speaker 1: grow and face our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview

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Speaker 1: a different guest about their highs as well as their lows,

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Speaker 1: all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail. Today,

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Speaker 1: we're welcoming to the podcast Sophie Walker, who is the

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Speaker 1: creator of Australian Birth Stories, a humongous podcast in Australia

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Speaker 1: with over eleven million downloads. It's an incredible pod but

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Speaker 1: also now an incredible book. And while I was reading

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Speaker 1: the book and listening to the pods, I'd be on

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Speaker 1: these flights and I just be bawling. So in this episod,

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Speaker 1: so I really just ask Sophie so many questions because

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Speaker 1: I'm not a mama and I wanted to learn so

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Speaker 1: much and I did. She's the mum of three beautiful boys.

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Speaker 1: We talk about her different pregnancies, we talk about the

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Speaker 1: pregnancies that she and birthing stories that she holds space

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Speaker 1: for on her own podcast. And to be honest, like

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Speaker 1: I'm quite naive, so I really pick Sophie's brain, and

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Speaker 1: she's so gentle and kind and sweet with me. So

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Speaker 1: I think you're gonna love this app, and I reckon

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Speaker 1: you're going to learn loads too, because I definitely did enjoy.

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Speaker 1: So Welcome to the pod Sophie Walker. Mate. I have

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Speaker 1: been deep diving your Potter Rooney Australian birth stories.

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Speaker 2: Wow wow, wow, wow wow.

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Speaker 3: You've got a lot of EPs, mate, I have thanks

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Speaker 3: for having me. Yeah, I think we're nearly up to

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Speaker 3: three seventy. I know.

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Speaker 1: Well, so when I read your book, I was like,

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Speaker 1: there's over three hundred pod apps, and then I've been

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Speaker 1: went and did another check this morning. I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, this is yes, this is even more. Yeah

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Speaker 1: a library, mate, I'm really excited. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you picked up when you and I were messaging, I

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Speaker 1: was a bit nervous to get you on. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: be really honest about why. Having just gone through IVF,

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Speaker 1: the mum stuff is really exciting for me. But it's

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Speaker 1: also a little bit confronting because it's something I've not

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Speaker 1: yet done. But I feel like I've dipped my toe

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Speaker 1: into the ocean of it through future planning with IVF,

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Speaker 1: and I have started to learn that. I think in

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Speaker 1: your twenties, tell me if I'm wrong. But in your

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Speaker 1: twenties you're like, don't really think about being a mum

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Speaker 1: that much? Like it feels like that's something for me.

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, that can be on the back better.

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Speaker 1: And then now that I'm thirty seven, I notice that

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Speaker 1: it is like a constant thing that's just part of

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Speaker 1: my day that I think about, which is why we

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Speaker 1: chose to future plan. But it still is confronting to me.

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Speaker 1: But I found reading book took that fear. I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my goodness, this is gonna be the bible for

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Speaker 1: when it happened. So I've rambled. Tell me about you,

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Speaker 1: my friend. You've got a master's in public health, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yep, that's my background. So I was in cancer

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Speaker 3: research before I kind of started the podcast.

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Speaker 1: And the pod is like fully like taken off to

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Speaker 1: change in the world, changing, like what I love about.

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Speaker 1: So conversational as well, and it makes me feel comfortable

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Speaker 1: to ask you about some of your birthing experiences because

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Speaker 1: you create such a safe, vulnerable space.

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Speaker 2: For people to My NUM's a psychologist, so I think

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Speaker 2: I've got that. I've got that vibe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, You've got this really okay. So let's start

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Speaker 1: with the catalyst that inspired you to create an Aussie platform.

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Speaker 1: You had just experienced your first birth, is that right?

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Speaker 2: I started after my second and birth, right, okay.

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Speaker 1: Because you wanted your second birth to be different to

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Speaker 1: the first. Is that correct?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeap.

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Speaker 1: So can we have a little taste of each?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure?

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Speaker 1: Is that okay?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll give you the quick version and you can

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Speaker 3: hear them in depth on my show.

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Speaker 2: But so my first labor, I went in really confident.

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Speaker 3: I've always been interested in birth and babies, and I

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Speaker 3: was like excited for the challenge. And my husband's really sporty,

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Speaker 3: so he saw it as like, you know, it's an

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Speaker 3: event and we'll just train for it, and he was

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Speaker 3: very excited to hold the tens and like count do

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Speaker 3: the countdowns and things. So we were a bit cocky

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Speaker 3: going in to be honest, and sort of about thirty

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Speaker 3: hours into that labor, I didn't get I didn't progress.

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Speaker 3: They say failure to progress, So yeah, all that lovely

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Speaker 3: terminology that comes into birth.

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Speaker 2: Does that literally just mean like I got have dark

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Speaker 2: more or less?

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Speaker 3: So I was at five centimeters so you've got to

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Speaker 3: get to ten and I was at five and I

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Speaker 3: didn't move past five centimeters for about five.

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Speaker 2: Or six hours.

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Speaker 3: So they're like, Okay, you can't kind of labor forever,

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Speaker 3: so we have to intervene now, or it's recommend dead

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Speaker 3: that we intervene. And by then I was like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: I've exhausted all my ve for I was so an

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Speaker 3: sort of gave up at that point. I was like, fine,

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Speaker 3: do whatever you need to do to get this baby out.

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Speaker 3: I'm exhausted and this is totally not what I had planned.

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Speaker 3: So then they broke my waters put the sintocinin into

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Speaker 3: speed it up.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk about that because I've heard people talk

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Speaker 1: about that feeling like fire in your body, Like is

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Speaker 1: it doesn't have a really weird feeling when it goes

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Speaker 1: in your body? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I think it depends how far along you are as well,

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Speaker 3: because I was at five centimeters. So to get into

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Speaker 3: the cervix too, they use like it really does look

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Speaker 3: like a crochet hook, so they put that in. But

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Speaker 3: if you're already dilated, it's not as painful. But I

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Speaker 3: think if you're only like two centimeters dilated, it can

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Speaker 3: be really painful. But again it kind of depends on

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Speaker 3: your pain threshold as well. But what changes after they

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Speaker 3: break your waters is so the baby's in that in

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Speaker 3: that kind of bubble and sack, and once they break that,

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Speaker 3: the baby drops down onto your cervix more so the

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Speaker 3: contractions then really intensify.

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Speaker 2: So then the pain increased, and I.

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Speaker 3: Just said, oh, I'll have an epidurl and my husband,

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Speaker 3: who like really listened to me and the birth prep said,

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Speaker 3: got into my face and said, oh, but you know,

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Speaker 3: remember you said you didn't really want any drugs, and

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Speaker 3: I was like, get away, got my mum in. I

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Speaker 3: was like, mom, I'm serious, and I know this can

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Speaker 3: take like forty minutes to find the anethetist, so get

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Speaker 3: that happening. So I had an epi durol and then

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Speaker 3: so then I was relaxed for a while. But then

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Speaker 3: he was four point four kilos my first son, so

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Speaker 3: about a kilo bigger than average.

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Speaker 2: That feels hea begnificant.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, So he just got stuck more or less,

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Speaker 3: and so I ended up having forceps and an episiotomy,

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Speaker 3: so an incision to get the forceps in, and then

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Speaker 3: when he came out, he was blue and not breathing

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Speaker 3: on his own only for like a minute, So they

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Speaker 3: got him round really quickly, and then I hemorrhaged and

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Speaker 3: lost nine hundred mills of blood. So it was like

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Speaker 3: going in thinking, oh, this is fine. I'm going to

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Speaker 3: stomp it out and use my stress balls and just

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Speaker 3: get this baby out. And then that kind of unfolded.

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, Like I wasn't prepared.

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Speaker 1: Mate. When they do, could sorry to like new drab

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Speaker 1: because I'm not a mom, I'm like, wow. So when

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Speaker 1: they give you the epi dril that's into your spine spine, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and can that then like potentially if you've started labor,

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Speaker 1: can that lengthen the labor? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: It can.

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Speaker 3: Well, any intervention kind of has pros and cons, so

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Speaker 3: you have to really be aware that what can happen

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Speaker 3: is you're then on your back because they've numbed the sensation,

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Speaker 3: and I mine was like a dense EPI dril, so

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Speaker 3: I couldn't even kind of wiggle across on the bed.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't feel anything kind of from my chest down.

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Speaker 3: And because you're then lying on your back, you're not

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Speaker 3: working with gravity to help the baby descend. So it

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Speaker 3: can prolong the labor, and it can lead to distress.

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Speaker 3: And so when I reflect on that labor, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: if I hadn't had the ep driol, if I'd pushed through,

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Speaker 3: maybe if I'd squatted and used kind of yoga techniques

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Speaker 3: to work with him, maybe I could have got him

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Speaker 3: into a better position. And yeah, because if you think

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Speaker 3: about it, you're just pushing straight down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Of course I've seen in the book the active

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Speaker 1: it's called what's it called active?

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Speaker 2: They're active labor positions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they look kind of fun. I'm sure they're not that.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like it feels very yoga vibes and a

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Speaker 1: lot of squats and like being on the ball, and yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: but you obviously went into this experience being like none

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Speaker 1: the wiser, right, yeah, just like okay, well, there's millions

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Speaker 1: of women have been through this should be right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I feel like I failed at the preparation component,

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Speaker 3: perhaps because we went to the birth classes at the

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Speaker 3: hospital and we're like, oh, look at.

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Speaker 2: All these novices.

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Speaker 3: They don't know anything and really arrogant. I should have

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Speaker 3: gone back and slapped that girl. But yeah, so I

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Speaker 3: could have done a lot more preparation, and I think,

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Speaker 3: like most things, there's a real mental component to laboring

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Speaker 3: and pregnancy and you know, most aspects of life. And

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Speaker 3: I got to a point where mentally I was like, Matt,

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Speaker 3: I'm done. And so I thought going into the second

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Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, I need something for that hurdle

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Speaker 3: in the middle, which yeah, Readempsey, who works in the

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Speaker 3: BIRST space, calls it a crisis of confidence in labor

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Speaker 3: and I was aware of that term in my second pregnancy,

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Speaker 3: and I thought, all right, I need more skills to

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Speaker 3: prepare for that crisis of confidence to get me through.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow. So so okay, there's so much I want

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about you now I'm packing here.

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Speaker 1: But first, I love that I'm so passionate about mental health,

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Speaker 1: and I love that it's highlighted in everything that you do.

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Speaker 1: But I I remember when I did my I'm a

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Speaker 1: yoga teacher, and I've done my prenatal training as a

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Speaker 1: yoga teacher separately to all other trainings I've done. And

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Speaker 1: the first thing that we got taught was do not

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Speaker 1: presume that all women love being pregnant. And they said,

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Speaker 1: some people are going to feel like there's a foreign body.

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Speaker 1: Some people are going to be really depressed, and some

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Speaker 1: people are going to feel like this isn't something. Yes,

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Speaker 1: they might want it, but a part of them doesn't.

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Speaker 1: They will feel conflicted. There are all these I imagine, there's

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Speaker 1: like this identity crisis kind of like potential feeling as well.

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Speaker 1: Then there's plan an unplanned. Those stats blew me way

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Speaker 1: in your book, isn't like half or not planned bambinos? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: mental wild wild, So just quickly on the mental And

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Speaker 1: I know I'm referring to like more pregnancy, but like,

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Speaker 1: how important to you is the mental side of things obviously,

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Speaker 1: mum and the family of having like some.

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Speaker 2: Years of my own individual character.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, game change.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and I've listening to your stuff lately. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I really need to book back in mate.

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Speaker 1: I I'm in Melbourn forty eight hours. I'm like, and

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Speaker 1: got my therapist. But I was like just so essential,

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Speaker 1: non negotiable. Mate. Yeah, So how did that first experience

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Speaker 1: impact how you went into your seconds?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Well, the big difference between the two, I think is

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Speaker 3: and it was before podcasts were a big thing. So

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Speaker 3: it's twenty seventeen. I had my second and I was like,

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Speaker 3: I need to know how other people got through it,

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Speaker 3: like what other tricks. I feel like I need to

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Speaker 3: really increase my toolkit going into bird, both mentally and physically,

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Speaker 3: and just really explore it in more depth. So I

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Speaker 3: binged podcasts in America and the UK and they had

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Speaker 3: a lot more of kind of birth stories and I

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Speaker 3: just was a junkie for it. And I was working

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Speaker 3: part time in cancer research at the Cancer Council with

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Speaker 3: a Canadian girl and we used to just chat about

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Speaker 3: podcasts all the time and she was like right into

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Speaker 3: them and she's like, you should do your own one.

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Speaker 3: You know. You found that like the benefits of really

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Speaker 3: consuming first hand experience is so pivotal to your second

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Speaker 3: And my second labor, i should say, was five hours

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Speaker 3: and I literally squatted on a yoga mat and he

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Speaker 3: just kind of came out. I went into the birth

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Speaker 3: center and had him half an hour later. So it

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Speaker 3: was like polar opposite experience. Yeah, And I think by

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Speaker 3: listening to those first hand accounts, I was kind of

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Speaker 3: ready for anything. I went into the first birth with

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Speaker 3: one plan. I'm not having drugs and I'm just gonna

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Speaker 3: and I'll be fine. And I went into the second

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Speaker 3: with a whole like about four birth plans, including like

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Speaker 3: the fourth was, if I need to have a cesarean

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Speaker 3: for whatever reason, then I want the lights turned down

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Speaker 3: and I don't want people chatting about the weather or sports.

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Speaker 3: I want everybody to be focused on my belly birth

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Speaker 3: if that's what I'm having.

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Speaker 2: And I think that was a real shift.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, there's a combination of things why my

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Speaker 3: second Louis birth went well. He was a kilo smaller,

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Speaker 3: and I'd obviously birth before, so I'd stretched all those muscles.

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Speaker 3: But I think one of the biggest things was that

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Speaker 3: I didn't work against the labor like it's very easy

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Speaker 3: to get a contraction and go and like tense all.

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Speaker 1: Your muscles up.

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Speaker 3: And I was really a lot more aware of the physiology,

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Speaker 3: and I could feel him moving down and I could

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Speaker 3: feel everything stretching expanding, but I was conscious of what

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Speaker 3: he was doing and what I was doing to get

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Speaker 3: him out, and it was a completely different mindset.

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Speaker 1: Oh how cool it's so cool hearing just hearing these

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Speaker 1: because I know, like I've got a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a hippie brain. And a friend of mine recently had

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Speaker 1: a banbin and I was like, oh, this isn't really weird.

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Speaker 2: But I've made your playlist.

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Speaker 1: It's fifteen hours long, like hopefully you don't have to

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Speaker 1: repeat it to me. And I had no idea, like

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Speaker 1: I've never had a kid, so I just but there's

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Speaker 1: this beautiful like the way you were talking about having

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Speaker 1: a plan and almost like four different protocols for what

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Speaker 1: could happen. I'm a virgo a type probably borderline OCD,

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Speaker 1: like that to me would already mean that mentally I

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Speaker 1: would be going in feeling calmer, safer, more held. And

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Speaker 1: I just think if it is a big portion of

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Speaker 1: it is like a part of mentally how you're coping

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Speaker 1: and the psychology of it, as well as pain threshold

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Speaker 1: of course, and what's actually physicologically happening as well. To me,

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Speaker 1: the way you described experience one experience two is just like, well,

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Speaker 1: you can take away so much anxiety just from having

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Speaker 1: a plan. Can I ask when it comes to birthing plans,

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Speaker 1: how soon does that happen in the pregnancy experience like journey?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well really.

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Speaker 3: For yourself, you need to reflect on that in the

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Speaker 3: very beginning, Like it's so hard because it's almost as

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Speaker 3: soon as you find out you're pregnant, you have to

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Speaker 3: make some of the biggest decisions in your care like

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Speaker 3: are you going to go private or public, or do

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Speaker 3: you want a home birth or all those things, and

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Speaker 3: you're making them often unless you've really planned, like you're

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Speaker 3: really planning your journey out. But a lot of people

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Speaker 3: don't plan that preconception and think about all of that.

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Speaker 3: So you're quickly signing up to a program, but that

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Speaker 3: will dictate your options, whether you've got access to a

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Speaker 3: water birth, or whether your care provider is more inclined

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Speaker 3: to induce at thirty eight weeks or things like that.

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Speaker 3: So picking your care provider is like the most essential

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Speaker 3: decision that you'll make, and I think we try and

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Speaker 3: outline that in an ideal world, you read our book

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Speaker 3: before you.

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Speaker 2: Can see yes and then and then your seats you'll

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Speaker 2: be so prepared.

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Speaker 1: I don't want I was like, this is coming all

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Speaker 1: the way back to Byron with me. I need to

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Speaker 1: like have this as my bible. It really feels like

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Speaker 1: an And that's why I'm going to pick your brains

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Speaker 1: because there are so many things that I was like,

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Speaker 1: no way, like they're just like I had no concept

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Speaker 1: that fifty percent worth birth of pregnancies were unplanned. Like

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Speaker 1: I just I think as well, like I do this thing,

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Speaker 1: and this is a very selfish thing to do, but

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Speaker 1: I presume everyone's my same age, and so I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't do that. I'm you know, you do that,

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Speaker 1: But imagine like in your twenties and stuff, it might

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Speaker 1: be like a surprise. But then hearing your pod, people

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Speaker 1: have surprised pregnancies at all different ages and at all

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Speaker 1: different journeys and parts of their lives and careers, and

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Speaker 1: oh mate, And then in.

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Speaker 3: The same breath too, some people struggle for ten years

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Speaker 3: to conceive. And you go through it feel like you

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Speaker 3: go through your teenage years thinking like every encounter you

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Speaker 3: have with the boy, you're gonna get pregnant.

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Speaker 2: You have here to protect yourself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: But then you find it's really not that simple.

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Speaker 1: I I am so excited to know, Like, so I

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Speaker 1: love that you were saying like you were just before

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Speaker 1: that second birth, you were like, right, oh, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to deep dive. I'm going to listen. This is what

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Speaker 1: I did before the IVF. I found all the American

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Speaker 1: podcasts on IVF, and I was like what you can't exercise,

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Speaker 1: and then you listen to different prodcasts. You can go

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Speaker 1: to Plartis every damn day if you want to. And

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Speaker 1: so I was getting confused because there was amazing information,

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Speaker 1: but like different rules and different horses for courses, and

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Speaker 1: so it became a little bit overwhelming, which is then

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Speaker 1: why I did a fertility special because I was like,

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Speaker 1: I got to share what's going on in my home

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Speaker 1: and you know what I went through and hopefully that'll

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Speaker 1: help people. Is that kind of what you were like,

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of info, but none of it is

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Speaker 1: specific to us living in Australia having acts because our

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Speaker 1: healthcare is different to other places. You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Is that?

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Speaker 3: Was that one of the Yales, well one of the

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Speaker 3: leading books that is sold in Australia. There's a couple,

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Speaker 3: but the leading one is American and it's yeah, and

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Speaker 3: it's very skewed to the American healthcare system and like

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Speaker 3: they have different way of doing things. They have different

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Speaker 3: names for drugs, different interventions, and so I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: I'll make an Australian version that's relevant.

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Speaker 2: Like in the podcast, we sort of say what hospital

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Speaker 2: are you at?

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Speaker 1: Totally?

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Speaker 3: So people like I'm going there, or they'll search like

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Speaker 3: I'm going to the Airworth. So let me hear all

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Speaker 3: the Epworth stories and things like that and decide. So

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Speaker 3: I just wanted a comprehensive book that was skewed to

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Speaker 3: with our statistics and things as well, because our rates

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Speaker 3: of intervention or our rates of conceiving are different. And

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Speaker 3: just wanted it to be so user friendly because it

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Speaker 3: is such an overwhelming time and if you can simplify

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Speaker 3: and break it down and put it all in one spot.

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Speaker 3: And I think we also designed it in a way

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Speaker 3: that you can flick in and out, yeah, because it's

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Speaker 3: kind of chunked in boxes and you because it's so

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Speaker 3: exhausting in the first trimester, you can't kind of we

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Speaker 3: didn't want it to be although there's a lot of texts,

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Speaker 3: we didn't want it to be like textbook.

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Speaker 1: No, it's so easy to read. Actually, the first thing

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Speaker 1: I did, your laugh is went straight to the glossary page.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I need to understand this terminology stash,

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Speaker 1: like even I didn't know that drip like the or

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Speaker 1: the meds that get given to kind of like help

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Speaker 1: bring on the labor you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the word.

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Speaker 1: Before yes, intsin Yeah, I was like, sin, what that

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Speaker 1: sounds like Harry Potter to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 1: Another thing that I had no idea of, again probably

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Speaker 1: because I'm not had a kiddo, but only five percent

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Speaker 1: of births are on their due date. Yeah, so it's

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Speaker 1: like just a rough ballpart. Yeah really I would I

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Speaker 1: would have do you know me? I would have written

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Speaker 1: it on the fridge from been like right, I here

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Speaker 1: we go, Let's let's do everything up until then. But

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Speaker 1: obviously you don't know because you don't know how your

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Speaker 1: health's going to be throughout the pregnancy as well. And

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Speaker 1: like you wrote about this, and I follow a few

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Speaker 1: Instagrammers were I think they call it HG that like

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Speaker 1: constant vomiting and.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so what it's called? Yeah yeah, high premises gravidarum.

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Speaker 3: It is the long name that sounds.

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Speaker 1: Wild and real and because it can last for quite

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Speaker 1: a long like is it.

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Speaker 2: It can be for the whole pregnancy. Yeah, that's like

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Speaker 2: I haven't experienced.

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Speaker 3: That myself, but yeah, that's I guess that's the other

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Speaker 3: point of difference that Jody and I Jody Scott four

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Speaker 3: kids who co wrote it with me, and I've got three,

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Speaker 3: but we didn't. We haven't walked every path. There's so

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Speaker 3: many variations of how it can unfold. So we got

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Speaker 3: firsthand experiences of say, women that have had HG and

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Speaker 3: really take the reader through what that's like from their

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Speaker 3: point of view and how to navigate it kind of

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Speaker 3: almost to the point of like one hour at a

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Speaker 3: time for some women.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but how good?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Okay. So you're a mum to boys and I've heard

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Speaker 1: you describe like the way that you want to raise them,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, like a little got a

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Speaker 1: little feeling in my heart when you said this. And

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Speaker 1: you said, I want to raise emotionally available, resilient young men.

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Speaker 1: I mean to me, I'm like, that's the goal, Like

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Speaker 1: that is the goal. But teaching kids how to be

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Speaker 1: emotionally available and resilient, and I think, and this is

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Speaker 1: where I guess the mental health stuff is so cool because,

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Speaker 1: like we've learned, we've grown up with a parents, our

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Speaker 1: parents generation where there were different lifestyle things go on different,

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Speaker 1: you know, I guess different like financial situation, so much

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Speaker 1: different stuff is going on. And then I don't know

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Speaker 1: about you, but I I was always a kid, must

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Speaker 1: finish your food at the dinner table, must not speak

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Speaker 1: out of place. But then if if you're wanting a

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Speaker 1: kid to be really emotionally available and be able to

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Speaker 1: connect to their emotions and not feel like they need

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Speaker 1: to hide their emotions away, it's almost like potentially parenting

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Speaker 1: potentially in a way that you may not have been raised.

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Speaker 2: So how do you go about that? Well, I was

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Speaker 2: raised in a household.

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Speaker 3: My mum was a single parent for a lot of

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Speaker 3: the time, and then she married my stepfather, who's amazing.

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Speaker 2: But we always talked about our feelings.

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Speaker 3: That's just in her DNA. And so I do that

437
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,919
Speaker 3: with the kids, and they they're talkers. And it's funny

438
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 3: now because the other moms say to me, oh, you'll

439
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 3: know what happened, because I get a blow by blow

440
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,919
Speaker 3: of everything that happened at school. I could tell you

441
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 3: what the other children ate for lunch, more or less

442
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 3: that level of detail. But I think it's overwhelming when

443
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 3: you think like that is my goal to make them

444
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 3: emotionally available and resilient. But you have to break that

445
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 3: down to the ages where they're at. So we do

446
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,399
Speaker 3: it in a daily kind of practice with they're not

447
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 3: good at helping with dishes and stuff. I'm really working

448
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 3: on that, but I want them to like not I

449
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,359
Speaker 3: have gender issues of like that's a girl's job or

450
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,440
Speaker 3: that's a boy's job, and things like that. But one

451
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 3: thing that we do that helps kind of open up

452
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 3: that dialogue every night at dinner is do rosebud thorn?

453
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of that?

454
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 3: No, so you say one thing that went really well

455
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 3: in your day. That's your rose, Your bard is something

456
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 3: you're looking forward to, and your thorn is something that

457
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 3: didn't go so well. And I always try just before

458
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 3: they say it. My three year old dictates who starts

459
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 3: and how we do it, but I always try and

460
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 3: preempt what they're going to say. If we've been to

461
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 3: like a water park or something like you think and

462
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 3: they're like, that's not the best part of their day.

463
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 3: The best part of the day is when they got

464
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 3: to choose, like I don't know what toy to play

465
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 3: with in or like something really small. But it's a

466
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,440
Speaker 3: really good exercise for us all to hear how each

467
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 3: other's minds are working, and it's a good conversation starter.

468
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 3: So yeah, we try and practice gratitude in that way,

469
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 3: but in an age appropriate kind of format.

470
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 1: I feel like rose bud Thorn you could use in

471
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 1: any age.

472
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of good for adults too, because it

473
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 3: just makes you just reflect on your day and be grateful.

474
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 1: Isn't it interesting how like you were saying, like you'd

475
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 1: expect the kids to be like, oh, yeah, being in

476
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: water World or whatever, and it's like it was just

477
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: when I got to share my toys.

478
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 2: I like something simple, so fascinating.

479
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: I a lot of my friends got five year old,

480
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 1: and I love there's something about that age where I'm like, yes,

481
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: I'm about to dive into playland, where are we going?

482
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 1: And you just get taken on these absolute adventures where

483
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,160
Speaker 1: all of a sudden we'll be talking like a made

484
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 1: up language completely and you're just in that moment. And

485
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: if you drop out and become an adult in that moment,

486
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 1: that that magic has gone. And I just love hanging

487
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: in that. I don't know, like I don't again, I

488
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: don't know loads about but I love this age group

489
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 1: where they're like yeah but yeah, and emotionally available and

490
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 1: they're so present and connected to how they feel in

491
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 1: that moment. And so yeah, when I heard you say that,

492
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's a really cool goal and barometer.

493
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 2: And I think we have to model that.

494
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 3: My husband and I as well, like if we like,

495
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 3: we had an argument the other day and we're not

496
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,959
Speaker 3: we're not shouters or we don't fight very often, but

497
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 3: we had a disagreement and we're obviously annoyed with each other.

498
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 3: And Nick, my nine year old, said, you know, oh

499
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 3: you and dad, like really, are you going to get

500
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 3: divorced or something, because he'd heard other And I said, oh, no,

501
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 3: we've had a disagreement and we've talked it through and

502
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 3: now we agree that we were both you know, just

503
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 3: unpack it for them, like adults have disagreements and or

504
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 3: you make a mistake, and if you model that, then

505
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 3: you hope that that seeps in over time. Ah.

506
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 1: How cool, though cool to be able to like process

507
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 1: together in a really like honest and open and like

508
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: nurturing way. Yeah, it doesn't always go to plants, not

509
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: all roses, but yeah, look, I'm going to steal the

510
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: rosebud thorn game just for me my boyfriend, to be honest.

511
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: That's good because I'll often will often when we go

512
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: to bed, I was three things you loved about today?

513
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: But I like that. Yeah, like acknowledging the negative as

514
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 1: well and having a little bit of hope for the future. Yeah,

515
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 1: what do you do when you are joing someone and

516
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: the story is like, so I'm going to be honest

517
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 1: in reading the book and listening to the podcast, like

518
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: I did make the sake of listening to a few

519
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 1: episodes on the plane, and I'm just blubbering mess and

520
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: crying and you're just like, oh my god, Like, and

521
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 1: how do you one hold the space without like, because

522
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: you're there as the host and you know, so you

523
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: want to hold this safe space so that they feel

524
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: safe to go there with you. Yeah, and then how

525
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: do you protect yourself after because even like from the

526
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: small experience I've had by you know, making friends through

527
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: the IVF world, it's a lot and it's confronting, and

528
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: some days it can feel triggering for me because in

529
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: the IVF come it's very numbersy and you'll hear someone's

530
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: eggs or embryos and you're like, oh my god, that

531
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: wasn't what I got, like, and it's so that yeah,

532
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: two prong question, how do you hold the space when

533
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: people are feeling really vulnerable? And how do you then

534
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: protect your own self like and set boundaries after Yeah.

535
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I feel like almost everyone I interview cries,

536
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 3: so we definitely go there, and perhaps even people who

537
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 3: don't expect to cry kind of really go back into

538
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 3: that space and really get in touch. It's almost kind

539
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,199
Speaker 3: of hypnotic therapeutic setting, and I think I know that

540
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 3: that's going to come, so I prepare myself, and I know,

541
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 3: like from a business and podcasting perspective, I know a

542
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 3: lot of people kind of chunk their recordings and do

543
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 3: like on Thursdays, I'll smash out five episodes, But my

544
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 3: content's too emotional to do in that way, and I

545
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 3: feel like I always need at least an hour in

546
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 3: between interviews to just kind of sit with that and

547
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 3: have a cup of tea and try not to take

548
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 3: on all the emotions. But it's hard. I often have

549
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 3: to refer people on as well. And I know there's

550
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 3: like amazing organizations to support people for birth trauma or

551
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 3: if they need a psychologist or they need pelvic flaw support,

552
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 3: and I try and shepherd them in that way. But

553
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 3: I think over the years of like you were saying before,

554
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 3: like I've listened to you so much, and it's you

555
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 3: listen to me during such a vulnerable point in your life,

556
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 3: that there's a different kind of connection, and so there's

557
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 3: a real sense of trust that they already feel that

558
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 3: they have coming into the chat. So that makes it less, Yeah,

559
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 3: makes it a bit effortless for it to be vulnerable.

560
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 2: But I think it's funny.

561
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: One of my colleagues has been working in my LinkedIn

562
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 3: account and she said, I can't believe like I've opened

563
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 3: up your inbox and people just don't sort of almost

564
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 3: say hi, hey, you going, They just go, I've got

565
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 3: a third degree tear and I'm having.

566
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: Trouble with you know.

567
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,959
Speaker 3: It's just so much kind of intensity, so I have

568
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 3: to kind of it's a bit like opening your front

569
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 3: door and someone's like just dumps their story on you,

570
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 3: and I mean dumps not very nice term.

571
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 2: But I have to kind of be ready to listen.

572
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 3: So I often just in my DMS think I'm not

573
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 3: in the right head space to kind of read something

574
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 3: because I also, you know how I wish it wasn't

575
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 3: that way, but it says scene, so they know you've

576
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 3: read it and you haven't responded, so then you look heartless.

577
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 3: So I only open them when I'm ready to I've

578
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 3: got time to kind of give them a response. But

579
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 3: all the submissions, so there's over five thousand submissions to

580
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 3: come on and they filter through to a different folder,

581
00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 3: so I only look at those when i'm kind of

582
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 3: but yeah, it's hard. I definitely take on the emotions

583
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 3: and so I yeah, so I have to kind of

584
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 3: space it out and do that work when I'm in

585
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 3: the right mode. But I never tire of hearing the stories.

586
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 3: So it's the logistics of finding a time that suits

587
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 3: them with a young family and suits me with a

588
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 3: young family.

589
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: But once we're in it, I just love it.

590
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: Ah. And so like say someone talks about like grief

591
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: or loss or infertility or something like really, you know,

592
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: you said you take that hour, you have a cup

593
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: of tea, you kind of like reset it. Has there

594
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: ever been a time me like actually that one's kind

595
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: of that one's kind of like niggling at me. I

596
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: A A you kind of like said, maybe refer them

597
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: on to Like I'm big into that one. I'll be like,

598
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 1: there's an amazing therapist right near you go see like

599
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: not equipped to Yeah, yeah, no, no, I do that all.

600
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: I'm big onto that as well, but sometimes you just

601
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: be like I need more than it, Like do you

602
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: sometimes need to just reset yourself completely go out beat?

603
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: Like And I've found, like just with with the fertility stuff,

604
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: I've gone back to the clinic for more recordings and

605
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: done stuff. And I had to walk past the theater

606
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: where I did in my egg collection, and I noticed

607
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: on the drive home, I was like, I feel like

608
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: I've got a bit of a BDSD from seeing where

609
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: I went through something that was really full on for me,

610
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: and I noticed that stayed with me for chure or

611
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: thread like that feeling stayed with me for a couple

612
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: of days, and then I was able to like process

613
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: it understand Wolf of course, Like I felt totally the

614
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: way you described going in naive to that first birthing experience.

615
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: I went in like, oh yeah, whoo, I don't mean

616
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: to go under whoa like green whistle me out, you know,

617
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: Like I went in just thinking and I know that

618
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: that's like not even a hundredth of what inexperience of

619
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: pregnant going through a birth would be, but like it

620
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: was enough to shake me when I saw that theater again. Yeah,

621
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: and so if you if that happens like if you

622
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: hear a story that is like a little bit like

623
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: ooh that gets you, do you have to just kind

624
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: of like completely change the channel for a while.

625
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 3: I usually call Jody, so she writes up the show notes,

626
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 3: so she's going to listen to it, and she's like,

627
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 3: what have you got on? Like we usually talk each

628
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 3: morning because we're friends but colleagues, and I'll be like, okay,

629
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 3: so I've got and I mean it sounds a bit brash,

630
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 3: but I'll be like, Okay, I've got a prolapse story,

631
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 3: I've got a postpartum depression story, or because I look

632
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 3: for that to give that.

633
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 2: Balance in the show.

634
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: So she'll know what I'm doing, and then I'll call afterwards,

635
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 3: and often I don't share my opinion of what's unfolded

636
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 3: as well, so I kind of hold back a lot

637
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,719
Speaker 3: in the interviews. There's not a lot of me talking,

638
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 3: and I'll be like, oh my god, they were so mistreated,

639
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 3: or like she had no idea that when she was

640
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 3: signing up for that that's going to happen, and I

641
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 3: so I kind of need to blurt that out. So

642
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 3: I often kind of debrief with Jody or my mum

643
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 3: if it feels really significant, or I feel like, oh,

644
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 3: I feel like they've I'm really opened up and they're

645
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 3: vulnerable and I'm worried about them. Then I'll ask her

646
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 3: about what she thinks I should do.

647
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: Ah, so good. So yeah, thank you for sharing that.

648
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: I'm really passionate about mental health, and I think especially

649
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: around fertility parenthood, Like I just think feeling held and

650
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: supported is probably the difference in like what could be

651
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: a really confronting experience versus potentially a really positive one,

652
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: potentially with the same outcome, but like the way that

653
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: we experience it is just greatly affected by mental health.

654
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,239
Speaker 3: I know one thing that I think isn't discussed as

655
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 3: much with IVF is people go through like you're going

656
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 3: through this journey. Other people go through it for long

657
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 3: periods of time and then conceive and can sometimes feel

658
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 3: anxious and not feel like they're enjoying it. And this

659
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 3: is then they're conflicted because so like, We've worked so

660
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 3: hard to get to this point and now I'm depressed

661
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 3: or anxious, And I think that can be quite common too,

662
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 3: and I think people don't share that as much. So

663
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 3: we try and acknowledge things like that in the book

664
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 3: as well.

665
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: I think as well, like fear is a big one,

666
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: and I think, like, I'm sure it would happen in

667
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: a pregnancy journey as well, But I think that fear

668
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: of the unknown, especially like first time mums and yeah,

669
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: and that's where I think, like this, this is where

670
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: what I think you're doing is so cool. It's like

671
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: educating people like, hey, you don't need to be fearful

672
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: about that thing. Here's here's how it's going to roll.

673
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: This is what it means when someone tells me about

674
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: this supplement. These are the reasons why, Like the amount

675
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: of people that have written to me going, did you

676
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: do prenatal care before? If I go, mate, three months

677
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: worth the exit that they're going to take. I've had

678
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: three months of nurturing, Mate, I've been on everything under

679
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: the sun. You could imagine you could poke a stick

680
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: at all the supplements I was on and they're like

681
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: what why? Who told I was like, yeah, I went

682
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: with a fertility natural path and they're like, oh, like

683
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: you know, And I just think that took so much

684
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: fear away. But I do want to talk to We

685
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about this ripe before we hit record,

686
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: and I'm probably going to totally mess up how I'm

687
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: saying it. But we were talking about pro prolapse yep.

688
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: Can you share your experience, Yeah, of course, and how

689
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,040
Speaker 1: you thought maybe you could have prevented it.

690
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I've got what's called a second degree prolapse.

691
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 3: So it's a weakening of the pelvic floor where the

692
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 3: pelvic organs. Then because the pelvic floor is weak and

693
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 3: I'm not a physio, so forgive me if this is

694
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 3: a bit out, but yeah, so you're so for me.

695
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 3: I've got like a recto seal, so it's part of

696
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 3: the bow comes down, and a sister seal so part

697
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 3: of the Oh now I'm going to botch it.

698
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: But so doing very good.

699
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 3: Basically a weakness of both areas. But I don't have

700
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 3: incontinence issues, but I've got a sense of fullness and heaviness,

701
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 3: so I can't really with my condition. It doesn't feel

702
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 3: comfortable to run. But I've never been a runner. I'm

703
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 3: not that sporty, but I've over the over time, I've

704
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 3: seen like a women's health physio and I've worn at Pesri,

705
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 3: which is like a silicon device that you insert in

706
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 3: the same way you would insert a tampon, but it's

707
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: much larger, and they come in all sorts of shapes

708
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 3: depending on what weaknesses you have.

709
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 2: But I've used like a cube.

710
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 3: So the cube goes in and it just kind of

711
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 3: holds those walls that have weakened up. And yeah, there's

712
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 3: variouschools of thought whether you can, like you can certainly

713
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 3: repair your pelvic floor and strengthen it back to how

714
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 3: it was. But because of the forceps use and the

715
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: size of my son, some of that muscles come away

716
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 3: from the bone, so mine won't ever totally correct. So

717
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 3: I mean, I went to one really brash a gynecologists

718
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 3: who said, well, you need a hysterectomy.

719
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: The no aunt of polarate is going to pull that

720
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 2: back up.

721
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 3: It's like, oh that's lovely, and I personally feel like

722
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 3: I'd rather live with the symptoms than have a hysterectomy.

723
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 3: But she just said it very matter of fact. She

724
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 3: obviously does them a lot, but.

725
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: Wow, this is the picture again, like that, well, this

726
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: is your options, and it's like, hang on, can I

727
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: just scratch the surface here and see if there are

728
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: other options. You mentioned that it was the size of

729
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: your beautiful son, but also force up, so forceps literally,

730
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: they're putting two forceps up inside your vagina.

731
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, to help guide the baby out.

732
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 3: And the reason why they did it with him is

733
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 3: because his heart rate was in distress and he was

734
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: in distress because he came out not breathing, My mum

735
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,479
Speaker 3: ran out of the room. Very helpful, but so in

736
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 3: that instance, he needed it at the time. But I

737
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 3: then reflect saying, yeah, but if I hadn't had their piturl,

738
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 3: if I had been mobile, maybe I could have gotten

739
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 3: him out on my own. So I've I feel like

740
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 3: people reflect back on things that were catalysts for Like,

741
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 3: it's obviously a catalyst for where I am now, but

742
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 3: I still would rather have not had that experience. So

743
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 3: I still think, oh, just if I've just done that,

744
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 3: And yeah, so it's hard, but I mean so I

745
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 3: feel like there's terms.

746
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 2: Of people say, oh, well, yeah, it's birth.

747
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 3: It's one challenging day and you've got a happy baby,

748
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 3: happy healthy mum, and you should be grateful. Well, that

749
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 3: birth injury I'm reminded of pretty much every time I

750
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 3: go to the toilet, So it's not just one day.

751
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a birth injury which doesn't happen to

752
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 3: everyone obviously, but it has for me that's tot of affected.

753
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 3: And it affects your sex life as well, because I've

754
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 3: got to be totally honest, like a sensation of fullness,

755
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 3: so I don't feel like like like I can have

756
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 3: sex and things like that, but it's not.

757
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: It's like lowered my libido and interest in that area.

758
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 3: So it has a can have a really huge impact.

759
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and with all the hemorrhaging, I imagine you would

760
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: have had blood transfusions as well. Well.

761
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 3: They I didn't have them because if it's under one hundred,

762
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 3: under one thousand.

763
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: Mills, so I get that right, Yeah, then you.

764
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 3: Were not asumptional so they were like yeah, but I

765
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 3: was already low on iron. So on reflection again, I'm like, oh,

766
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 3: I probably should have had a nine infusion at that time,

767
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 3: because then you go home and you have to breastfeed

768
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 3: and you have to have any Yeah, and you kind

769
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 3: of carry on this really little period of time for

770
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 3: you to just kind of rest and recover because you're

771
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 3: onto the next chapter.

772
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 1: So what about third Bambino?

773
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 3: So then Third's I've got a bit of a reputation

774
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 3: of being curveballs. It's a lucky dip, right, It's a

775
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 3: bit like so here we go.

776
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 1: Yeah.

777
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 3: So I didn't go in cocky thinking, oh, well I

778
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 3: had a five hour easy one, I'll have a two

779
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 3: hour easy. And it's funny because obviously we've been doing

780
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 3: the podcast all that time. I'd add all this knowledge

781
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 3: on board, but I still just went into a laboring

782
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 3: woman who was a bit irrational, and my labor with

783
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 3: him was a bit st start, which can happen with

784
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 3: subsequent babies. I ended up because I was kind of

785
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 3: on and off and on and off. I said, oh, yeah,

786
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 3: break my waters then, and then he came out forty

787
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 3: five minutes later, so he was super quick, and I

788
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 3: went through the birth center again and it was all

789
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: pretty easy. But mentally I was like, I was like, oh,

790
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 3: I should have known better. I was doing heaps of

791
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 3: induction and I perhaps should have sat back and just

792
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 3: like let him come when he was ready. But I

793
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 3: kind of yeah, I was like keen to get him out.

794
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 3: And I didn't know what I was having with all

795
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 3: of them too, so I was like keen to know.

796
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: Surprise. Yeah, like I've been waiting waiting to see. So

797
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: this is one thing I had no idea was a thing.

798
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: Until I listened to your pod, I didn't know that

799
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: you could have like the first signs of labor at

800
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: home and just kind of like ride that way for

801
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: why yeah, until you go to hospital. Is that common? Yeah?

802
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's ideally what they'll say to you. Try and

803
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 3: labor home. Sorry, try and labor at home for as

804
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 3: long as you can. So you that's why you really

805
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 3: need to do the work, and your birth partner really

806
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,439
Speaker 3: needs to do the work. And I think that's why

807
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 3: it's becoming a lot more commonplace for you to have

808
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 3: a duller. And that's when a doula would come around

809
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 3: and be with you at home if you just kind

810
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 3: of to support you through that. And so just for

811
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 3: people listening, a doula is kind of like very holistic

812
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 3: birthing kind of like not mentor, but like guide. Yeah,

813
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 3: and they're very experienced in supporting women during labor and

814
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 3: kind of helping. They'll they'll do often do it like

815
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 3: lower back pressure and bring a tens or help you

816
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 3: with that sort of thing.

817
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: I've heard it talked about.

818
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got it. You've got to get one when

819
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 2: the time comes.

820
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 3: I just think that the eyes just lit up there

821
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 3: the best. So again this is a bit technical, but

822
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 3: it kind of works on it. You put pads on

823
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 3: your back and you hold a little handheld device and

824
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 3: you they give you like.

825
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 2: Like sort of small electric shots.

826
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 3: Okay, but it's not not painful, but it distracts the pain.

827
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 2: You might know more about this kind.

828
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 3: It's a pain confusing kind of Yeah, so you think

829
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 3: about the pain of the tens and you don't think

830
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 3: about the pain of the contraction.

831
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, do you know how I know this? My

832
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: veins really deep and I'm sure, I'm sureing so now

833
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: see you can't see them. Yeah, So whenever I have

834
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: to get an IV drip, it's very painful because there's

835
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 1: a bit of fishing around going to find that vein

836
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 1: and giving all my blood tests with IVF and stuff.

837
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: I was like, here we go, here we go. So

838
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: they'll often get out this little it looked like a

839
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: little vibrator and they'll put it on my other hand.

840
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: So there's a vibrating like sensation, yeah, pressing on my

841
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,919
Speaker 1: other arm, and you know what, I said, get it off,

842
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,720
Speaker 1: get it off straight away. I was like, I can't

843
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: handle my brains didn't but maybe in this scenario.

844
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 3: Changes the sensory part. But yeah, pain threshold pathway something. Yeah,

845
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 3: I've really messed that one up. But no, but they're

846
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 3: basically yeah, they're a great point to start with because

847
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 3: they're a non kind of medical intervention.

848
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 2: And you can do that at home.

849
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: Oh how good.

850
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you just hire them or buy them and

851
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 3: are they like attached to you. It's just like a

852
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 3: small about the size of a mobile phone, the unit,

853
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 3: and then it's got cords and just sticky pads that

854
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 3: you put on your back. So they actually come with

855
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 3: like a lanyard, so you just have it around your neck.

856
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 3: So but it's also nice, like the contraction comes and

857
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 3: you turn it on and it gives you something to do,

858
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,240
Speaker 3: like you feel like you're doing something and you're working

859
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 3: with the contraction.

860
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 2: Oh my yeah, they're cool.

861
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: Goodness, Oh my goodness, I could ask you.

862
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: So, so when you're pregnant, we'll have to really have

863
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 2: a chat.

864
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: I know, Like what is like if if someone like

865
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: me was like, all right, say we'll catch up for coffee, right,

866
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: and I hope if you're kind of a yeah, and

867
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, it's go time, Like I'm you know,

868
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: found out I'm pregnant, da da da. I want to

869
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: have the best of both worlds. Would you say, go

870
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 1: now and do your research from straight day dot figure

871
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: out builds. I imagine building a team around you is

872
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: like so important.

873
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

874
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 3: I think probably the first thing I'd say is do

875
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 3: you know what kind of birth you think you want?

876
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 3: Like if you said, oh, I envisaged being in water

877
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 3: and having no interventions and trying to do it in water,

878
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 3: then I'd say, okay, Well, the best model of care

879
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 3: for that would be to have like a private midwife

880
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 3: or a birth.

881
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 2: Center or whatever.

882
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 3: Or if you want to have an obstetrician and you've

883
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 3: got private health cover, make sure they've got a birth

884
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 3: like all their birth suites have a pool, because not

885
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 3: all of them do.

886
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

887
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 3: I feel like people get to thirty eight weeks and go, oh,

888
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 3: that's not even an option here.

889
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 2: Like that sort of stuff is important in the beginning.

890
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: Of course, and even like the health insurance I'm with

891
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: right now, like, oh, if you want to have a

892
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,479
Speaker 1: kid that like, get off this straight away and change

893
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: your health insurance. I was like, I had no idea

894
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: that that was even.

895
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 3: You need at least nine months on you, Yeah, wild,

896
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:38,479
Speaker 3: many things?

897
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: Wild? Am I going to say so much stuff I

898
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: want to ask you? I'm like, I can't. I can't

899
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: forget anything. But I know we're coming to the end

900
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 1: of our so this is going to be an overshare

901
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: on my end, but I just want It's kind of

902
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: like a lead on what we talked about about building

903
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: the right team. Right when I started the IVF journey,

904
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: I was like a major. I found a doctor that

905
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: agreed with future planning. I'm already thirty seven, and so

906
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: I want to try forty and if that doesn't work,

907
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: I wanted to plan be hence going through IVF and

908
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: creating little iced bambinos I call them, And so that

909
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: was all good. I got approved, did all my testing,

910
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: Janie Zing did the works, did my three months of

911
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 1: fertility stuff with a naturopath, and I had my first

912
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: call with a nurse and she's like, hey, you know,

913
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: all right, welcome. You know you're coming in for your

914
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: training soon. What's your plan? And I said, yeah, yeah,

915
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: I'm thirty seven. We're going for embryos because you would

916
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: know difference between ex embryos. And I was like, you know,

917
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: future planning, And her response is that's a terrible idea.

918
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: You're already geriatric. You need to be doing a fresh

919
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: transfers very well. I was like, we're actually doing this

920
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 1: because we don't want kids yet, where in our phases

921
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: in our careers where we need to be a little

922
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: bit selfish right now, and we're doing this so that

923
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: we can be more set up to be parents in

924
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: a couple of years. And this is so that that

925
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: door doesn't shut for us. Yeah, And she's like, that

926
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: is the worst idea, like and just really let me

927
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: have it. I got off the phone first into tears,

928
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: called my doctor and I was like, what do I do?

929
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: What do I do? And I actually was so rapped

930
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: because when I went in for my training, I just

931
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: asked for a different, someone different to be looking after me.

932
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: But that and I had a few like it took

933
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: me a while to find the right fertility specialist, the

934
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: right clinique, like I really moved around before because there

935
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: were a few other situations where like I walked in

936
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: and the wrong AMH blood result was in front of

937
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 1: me and I was getting told that my AMH was too.

938
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 2: Low and it wasn't even you.

939
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: I said, that's not my name that's not my pathology,

940
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 1: do you know me? So it takes. And the reason

941
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,760
Speaker 1: I want to talk about this is because I imagine

942
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 1: it would happen in the pregnancy birthing world. And the

943
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,240
Speaker 1: only reason I was able to stand up for myself

944
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: is because I'm a little bit of a lion and

945
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 1: a little bit fiery, and I've done so much therapy

946
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: that I knew that that wasn't my shit. Yeah, and

947
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: so I was able to go, thank you, but I'm

948
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: actually going to find someone else. So that's why it

949
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: took a few goals to find a specialist, took a

950
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: few goals to find the right clinic. The right team

951
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: is the same in is it the same one?

952
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 3: You've got to advocate for yourself as a mother, and

953
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 3: in this chapter, because I think it's your birth, and

954
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 3: it's your body, and it's and your and it's unique

955
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 3: to you, and it's not people like, oh, just see

956
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 3: what happens. They're the experts, and it's like, well, statistically,

957
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 3: if you go in with that mentality, you're more likely

958
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 3: to come away like one in three women have birth trauma.

959
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 3: So you really have to protect yourself and empower yourself.

960
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 3: And I think the other thing that that kind of

961
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 3: was like an alarm bell for me, is we know

962
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 3: that to avoid birth trauma and to come out with

963
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 3: the most positive experience is to have continuity of care

964
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 3: throughout your pregnancy, at your birth, and in your postpartum.

965
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 3: And it's that thing of like you'd already explained your

966
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 3: story and your care provider knew, but then you had

967
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 3: this random nurse who derailed things and it was so

968
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 3: unprofessional and.

969
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: Inappropriate of her.

970
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 3: But had you then perhaps only been dealing with someone

971
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 3: who knew your case, then they wouldn't have said all

972
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 3: that hurtful stuff, right.

973
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: And then the moment I asked for someone new, it

974
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: was the most beautiful experience. And like to this day,

975
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: I still have my nurse go good luck in LA

976
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: can't wait to see I'm like, you know.

977
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not their position to judge or in

978
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 2: part all that stuff.

979
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: I thought i'd be empowered, Like I thought they'd be like, oh,

980
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: this is really great. You're taking an active role in

981
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: future playing so that you can potentially be a mother

982
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: one day. And it wasn't that experience multiple occasions, so

983
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: that's where I thought, I thought, Oh, my goodness, imagine

984
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: I can only imagine and having listened to your podcast,

985
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: like it takes a real sense of self to be

986
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: able to go you know what, this is not the

987
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: care that I need. Yeah, I'm going to find different care,

988
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: which is where I love everything that you're doing because

989
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 1: you're educating. So Sophie, I have loved love sitting down

990
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: and chatting with you. Is there any last little parting

991
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: bit of I'm going to have in the show notes.

992
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to have this the link to this beautiful book,

993
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: link to your pod, and also people should look at

994
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: it on your website because you can literally type in

995
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: IVF and get all the IVF episode. It's all you know,

996
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: home birthing, get all the home and I love love

997
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: that and like you've got a true fan in me.

998
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: Thank you for really hanging in there with getting this

999
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 1: pod recorded to I know there were some ups and

1000
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: downs of getting you here and you've absolutely stuck with me.

1001
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you.

1002
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can find everything you need to find over

1003
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,240
Speaker 3: at Astraan Bath Stories dot com.

1004
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've got all these programs and stuff. Mate,

1005
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure I'll be in a couple of years, you'll

1006
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: be back one hundred percent back. Thank you, you're absolutely wonderful.

1007
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me.

1008
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:42,760
Speaker 1: That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always,

1009
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: thank you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation

1010
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: on Instagram. I'm at Yamo Lollaberry This potty my work

1011
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: for podcast is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love

1012
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 1: it if you could subscribe, rape and comment and of

1013
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: course spread the love.