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Speaker 1: And as we know, law firm Morris Blackburn has secured

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Speaker 1: a thirty five million dollar class action settlement on behalf

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Speaker 1: of young people mistreated while in youth detention in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory. The amount of this historic settlement has been

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Speaker 1: revealed after the Northern Territory government this week failed in

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Speaker 1: its bid to suppress the figure. Joining us on the

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Speaker 1: line right now is Maurics Blackburn principal lawyer, Ben Slade.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Ben, good morning now been thirty

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Speaker 1: five million dollars. The government tried to suppress this figure.

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Speaker 1: Any idea why.

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Speaker 2: The government's position to the court was that might inflame

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Speaker 2: and encourage others to take action against the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: government with unrealistic expectations because it is a very big number.

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Speaker 2: But of course it has to be shared amongst the

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Speaker 2: significant number of young people. So I don't think well

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Speaker 2: of the court rejected the largement.

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Speaker 1: How long has this court case been running for Ben?

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Speaker 2: I commenced it in December seventy sixteen, and it's been

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Speaker 2: very hard for many years, and all the Territory has

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Speaker 2: stood up to every thing that we've said and fought

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Speaker 2: back very hard. With three competent lawyers and some it

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Speaker 2: took a long time to get to this point.

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Speaker 1: And how many young people do you anticipate that this

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Speaker 1: is going to effect?

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Speaker 2: Well, the Northern Charactor tells us that one thousand, two

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Speaker 2: hundred just below that work in custody during the relevant period,

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Speaker 2: and we hope to find them all, but we haven't

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Speaker 2: been able to find them so far. But we haven't

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Speaker 2: of course been out there with money to hand out

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Speaker 2: so far, so we hope that we'll have a enthusiastic response.

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Speaker 1: So sorry, could you just repeat that number? How many

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Speaker 1: do you anticipate that?

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Speaker 2: It could be two? Yeah, about thirty less.

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Speaker 1: Than that, okay? And is there any idea at this

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Speaker 1: point in time how much each of these young people

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Speaker 1: are going to be paid out? I guess thirty five

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Speaker 1: million dollars. Like you said, it sounds like a massive figure.

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Speaker 1: But once it's distributed, how well you know how much

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Speaker 1: are you anticipating each could be receiving.

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Speaker 2: Well, there are a few things that will depend on

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Speaker 2: and depend on how many people registered with nice Factor

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Speaker 2: and participate in the settlement. It will depend on what

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Speaker 2: the classification the young person was in when they were

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Speaker 2: in attention and It depends on how long they are

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Speaker 2: in atention for, and it will depend on whether they've

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Speaker 2: got extreme examples of isolation and violence committed upon the person,

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Speaker 2: the sort of horrible things that were happening, especially the

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Speaker 2: high security kids who obviously were a bit naughty, it

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Speaker 2: will significantly naughty it, but they've got a really, really

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Speaker 2: hard time. And that's the stuff that the Royal Commission

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Speaker 2: focused on.

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Speaker 1: Ben, Can you talk us through I know that a

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Speaker 1: lot of Territorians will remember the history of this and

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Speaker 1: remember the Four Corners Report and also would have been

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Speaker 1: very engaged when the Royal Commission was taking place. But

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Speaker 1: for those listening who maybe aren't aware, can you talk

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Speaker 1: us through some of the treatment that we're talking about here?

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Speaker 2: Well, the r Commission was the best evidence. I think

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Speaker 2: the raw Commissions found that the detention centers were not

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Speaker 2: fit for accommodating children or young people at all. I

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Speaker 2: mean they're meant to be rehabilitating them and creating socially

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Speaker 2: responsible young people. Well they didn't do that. There was

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Speaker 2: our instructions and the Royal Commissions found there was not

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Speaker 2: just verbal of the use, but there was all sorts

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Speaker 2: of physical control and humiliation being denied access to basic

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Speaker 2: human needs such as water, food, and the use of tournaments.

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Speaker 2: There was this herrigic business that went on where children

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Speaker 2: were bright with chocolate bars and things to carry out

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Speaker 2: the grading and humiliating acts upon other children in the

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Speaker 2: detention centers, kickboxing and being pacticed upon by youth Justice

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Speaker 2: officers on their kickboxing skills. They were children were forced

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Speaker 2: down with their heads down onto the ground, and they

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Speaker 2: they had this thing called ground stabilizing where they threw

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Speaker 2: them forcefully into the ground. And they also had this

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Speaker 2: thing called the Hoffman knife. They cut the clothes of

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Speaker 2: children and leave them, make it and throw them into

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Speaker 2: the cement isolation cell and not communicated with them for

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Speaker 2: many hours and in twenty four hours and that sort

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Speaker 2: of time, and then keep them in isolation under these

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Speaker 2: things called intensive management plans for sometimes we're come in.

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Speaker 2: It really was barbaric. Ben.

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Speaker 1: I know that there will be so many people out

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Speaker 1: there listening. I've got to say, I think we'll probably

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Speaker 1: have a pretty divided audience this morning. There'll be some

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Speaker 1: people out there listening who are really mortified by what

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Speaker 1: they're hearing and by the vision obviously that they saw

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Speaker 1: in the four Corners report. I think most people would

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Speaker 1: be mortified by that part. But I guess, on the

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Speaker 1: other hand, we've got a lot of listeners who have

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Speaker 1: been victims of crime. I mean, to those victims of crime,

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Speaker 1: they'd be feeling I guess, you know, I guess quite

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Speaker 1: disappointed that there's thirty five million dollars going towards some

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Speaker 1: young people who've committed crimes against them and yet accepting

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Speaker 1: that obviously the wrong thing has happened, but feeling quite

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Speaker 1: disappointed that then they, as victims of crime, are being forgotten.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what would you say to them, or what

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Speaker 1: would your response be to that?

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Speaker 2: Victors of crime have a perfectly good reason to be furious.

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Speaker 2: Crime is and suffering at crime is the most awful

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Speaker 2: thing that one should never ever wish on anyone, and

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Speaker 2: they absolutely have a right to be furious about the

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Speaker 2: fact that they are a victims of crime. I think

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Speaker 2: our point is that these children in these detention centers

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Speaker 2: have also been victims of crime. These justice acts said

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Speaker 2: that they should be rehabilitated and treated in the social

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Speaker 2: responsible manner, yet they weren't. They were subject to this horrible,

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Speaker 2: degrading and humiliating acts that in itself are crimes, and

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Speaker 2: these kids are victims of crime as well, so it

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Speaker 2: doesn't really help to say, well, these kids should be

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Speaker 2: treated really badly. Deprivation of liberty is the penalty. That's

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Speaker 2: the penalty. It's the penalty of last resort. That's the

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Speaker 2: most extreme thing we heal in Australia to people when you'renaughty.

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Speaker 2: We don't hang people anymore. We put them in jail

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Speaker 2: and deprive them their liberty. We don't then humiliate and

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Speaker 2: degrade and to beIN violence upon them while they're in

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Speaker 2: jail or and definitely not for children in justice facilities.

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Speaker 1: Ben can I ask. I know a lot of people

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Speaker 1: wondering what the legal or what the fee is for

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Speaker 1: Morris Blackburn, how much you guys will be getting out

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Speaker 1: of that thirty five million.

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Speaker 3: The Court's appointing an independent costs experts who will be

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Speaker 3: given a whole pilot stuff by us about what we

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Speaker 3: did during during the many years of fighting this case.

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Speaker 3: She will prepare a report for the court. We will

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Speaker 3: also be.

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Speaker 2: Considering what she has to say about the costs that

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Speaker 2: we've incurred in running the case, and we will separately

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Speaker 2: make a decision about what we will ask the court

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Speaker 2: for We'll also tell our clients and the public what

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Speaker 2: we think the fair number is, and then ultimately on

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Speaker 2: the eighth and nineteen November, when we're before the courts

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Speaker 2: are said them with approval, the court will tell us

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Speaker 2: what the Court thinks as reasonable in the circumstances. So,

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Speaker 2: and I'm not prepared to even hazard again of what

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Speaker 2: that number will be. We've done an enormous amount of

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Speaker 2: work on this case, but it was a social justice case.

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Speaker 2: It was done for the betterment of the community in

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory, and will need to make a decision

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Speaker 2: when we get all that information together and hear what

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Speaker 2: the court has to say.

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Speaker 1: I know some reports of ten million dollars. I mean,

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Speaker 1: does that seem reasonable?

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Speaker 2: No, it sounds like a significant amount more than I

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Speaker 2: thought that we'd been looking. I don't know where that

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Speaker 2: number came from. It's plucked out of the air, and

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Speaker 2: I think it's significantly more than we're going to be

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Speaker 2: looking at.

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Speaker 1: Now, when do you anticipate that the money is going

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Speaker 1: to be is going to be released or when this

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Speaker 1: payout's actually going to happen.

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Speaker 2: So between now and the sixteenth of November, we're going

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Speaker 2: to be getting as many as much information at the

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Speaker 2: community as we can so we can find as many

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Speaker 2: as the one thy two hundred young people. Then on

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Speaker 2: the eighth and ninth of November, there will be a

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Speaker 2: core hearing in more hopefully in Darwin, where justice more

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Speaker 2: than will approve or not approve of the settlement we've proposed.

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Speaker 2: And on the sixteenth, and they remember was the last

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Speaker 2: day for registration by the young people. And then between

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Speaker 2: then and hopefully for Christmas, although there's such a lot

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Speaker 2: of work to be done, I'm not completely sure that

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Speaker 2: we'll make that target. We will distribute the money into

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Speaker 2: people's bank account.

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Speaker 1: Well, we really appreciate your time this morning, Ben Morris,

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Speaker 1: Blackburn principal lawyer Ben Slade, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: having a chat with us.

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Speaker 2: Thanks very much.

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Speaker 1: Thank you,