1 00:00:10,709 --> 00:00:14,869 Speaker 1: My Heart podcasts, hear Moore Kids podcasts, playlists, and listen 2 00:00:14,909 --> 00:00:18,829 Speaker 1: live on the Free I had you shouldn't be alive, 3 00:00:19,029 --> 00:00:19,828 Speaker 1: Nick tell us. 4 00:00:19,749 --> 00:00:23,269 Speaker 2: Why other than being shot, stabbed, strangled, run over by 5 00:00:23,308 --> 00:00:26,629 Speaker 2: a car, hanging myself in a prison cell, and all. 6 00:00:26,549 --> 00:00:28,469 Speaker 3: Kinds of mayhem. 7 00:00:27,669 --> 00:00:31,029 Speaker 2: I was sentenced to death at the age of twenty 8 00:00:31,149 --> 00:00:33,869 Speaker 2: one for the rape and murder of a woman I never. 9 00:00:33,748 --> 00:00:34,549 Speaker 3: Met in my life. 10 00:00:34,949 --> 00:00:39,189 Speaker 2: I spent twenty three years on death Row in solitary confinement, 11 00:00:39,629 --> 00:00:42,589 Speaker 2: and I escaped from death row at one point in 12 00:00:42,668 --> 00:00:45,549 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five. I was on the FBI's most wanted 13 00:00:45,589 --> 00:00:48,589 Speaker 2: list for twenty five days until I turned myself back in. 14 00:00:48,828 --> 00:00:50,629 Speaker 3: And they put me on death row. Next it Ted 15 00:00:50,668 --> 00:00:53,709 Speaker 3: Bundy for the next eight months. 16 00:00:53,749 --> 00:00:56,509 Speaker 2: So me and Ted became acquainted when he spit on 17 00:00:56,589 --> 00:00:58,589 Speaker 2: me when I played with him and taunted him. 18 00:00:58,869 --> 00:01:01,349 Speaker 3: So and then I went back to death row. 19 00:01:01,509 --> 00:01:07,269 Speaker 2: I got beaten severely contracted hepatitis C. I was dying 20 00:01:07,389 --> 00:01:10,389 Speaker 2: of the illness when I asked to be executed, and 21 00:01:10,429 --> 00:01:12,828 Speaker 2: in the twenty fifth hour they gave me the DNA 22 00:01:13,309 --> 00:01:19,309 Speaker 2: Finally that proved my innocence. Oh, oh my god, God, Wow. 23 00:01:19,469 --> 00:01:21,949 Speaker 4: I didn't think I've experienced forty seconds like that in 24 00:01:21,949 --> 00:01:23,749 Speaker 4: my life. Just hearing all of that. It's truth, Old 25 00:01:23,829 --> 00:01:24,429 Speaker 4: mighty nick. 26 00:01:24,429 --> 00:01:25,469 Speaker 3: I took it easy on you. 27 00:01:29,189 --> 00:01:31,469 Speaker 4: If we can go back to step one here, So 28 00:01:31,589 --> 00:01:35,189 Speaker 4: you are wrongly You are wrongly accused of ripe and 29 00:01:35,309 --> 00:01:37,829 Speaker 4: murder of someone you have never met before through. 30 00:01:37,629 --> 00:01:40,509 Speaker 2: The folly of the following incidents. So, at the age 31 00:01:40,509 --> 00:01:43,029 Speaker 2: of twenty, I was driving the stolen car. 32 00:01:43,429 --> 00:01:44,469 Speaker 3: I was a tear away. 33 00:01:44,909 --> 00:01:47,669 Speaker 2: I wasn't listening to my folks, I was high on drugs. 34 00:01:47,709 --> 00:01:50,069 Speaker 2: I got pulled over by a policeman who beat the 35 00:01:50,109 --> 00:01:50,669 Speaker 2: hell out of me. 36 00:01:50,669 --> 00:01:51,629 Speaker 3: He pulled his gun out. 37 00:01:51,669 --> 00:01:53,469 Speaker 2: We had a fight, and then he lied on me 38 00:01:53,509 --> 00:01:56,189 Speaker 2: and said that I tried to murder him and all. 39 00:01:56,029 --> 00:01:59,269 Speaker 3: This crazy stuff. So I get thrown into prison, and 40 00:01:59,309 --> 00:01:59,909 Speaker 3: a guy. 41 00:01:59,709 --> 00:02:04,029 Speaker 2: That was guilty of burglar rising the prosecutor's home said 42 00:02:04,069 --> 00:02:06,389 Speaker 2: that I confessed to him of the rape and murder 43 00:02:06,429 --> 00:02:09,149 Speaker 2: of a woman in the area right he could get 44 00:02:09,189 --> 00:02:11,829 Speaker 2: out of his charges. So I went to trial for 45 00:02:11,909 --> 00:02:14,589 Speaker 2: the first chargers and the jury found me not guilty 46 00:02:14,709 --> 00:02:17,909 Speaker 2: for that policeman lying on me. So then they started 47 00:02:17,949 --> 00:02:20,669 Speaker 2: seeking the death penalty out of vengeance, and he gave me. 48 00:02:20,589 --> 00:02:21,949 Speaker 3: A three day murder trial. 49 00:02:22,229 --> 00:02:25,069 Speaker 2: So they sentenced me to die after the jury went 50 00:02:25,109 --> 00:02:27,669 Speaker 2: out for dinner break, and they came back and gave 51 00:02:27,669 --> 00:02:28,269 Speaker 2: me to death. 52 00:02:28,829 --> 00:02:31,589 Speaker 3: And so I was only twenty one years old. 53 00:02:31,749 --> 00:02:35,309 Speaker 2: And the crazy thing was will the courthouse was struck 54 00:02:35,349 --> 00:02:36,788 Speaker 2: by light and the day I was. 55 00:02:36,749 --> 00:02:40,069 Speaker 3: Sentenced to death and knocked all the power up, whoa. 56 00:02:39,829 --> 00:02:42,749 Speaker 2: And I swear to gosh, it's in the newspapers and everything. 57 00:02:43,109 --> 00:02:45,829 Speaker 2: I was taking upstairs, and I was looking at all 58 00:02:45,829 --> 00:02:48,429 Speaker 2: the people in the courtyard below and there was no 59 00:02:48,549 --> 00:02:50,669 Speaker 2: sound because no air conditioning or anything, and they were 60 00:02:50,709 --> 00:02:53,189 Speaker 2: all looking up at me, and they all started making 61 00:02:53,229 --> 00:02:54,109 Speaker 2: noises and stuff. 62 00:02:54,149 --> 00:02:56,509 Speaker 3: But I heard this thing in my head said, looked 63 00:02:56,509 --> 00:02:58,149 Speaker 3: them in the eye. So when I went back in 64 00:02:58,189 --> 00:03:01,589 Speaker 3: the courtroom, and it's in the newspapers. The judge couldn't 65 00:03:01,589 --> 00:03:02,389 Speaker 3: look me in the eye. 66 00:03:02,469 --> 00:03:04,949 Speaker 2: No one could look me in the eye, and he 67 00:03:05,149 --> 00:03:07,829 Speaker 2: sentenced me to death without ever looking me in the face. 68 00:03:08,069 --> 00:03:11,709 Speaker 1: Oh that's oh Na, that's horrible, man. 69 00:03:11,869 --> 00:03:14,788 Speaker 2: If you think that's it's so deep that every member 70 00:03:14,789 --> 00:03:17,189 Speaker 2: of the jury that sentenced me to death is now dead. 71 00:03:17,389 --> 00:03:19,989 Speaker 1: Whoa, whoa. 72 00:03:20,189 --> 00:03:22,549 Speaker 3: Wow. You can't make it up. You can't, you can't 73 00:03:22,549 --> 00:03:23,548 Speaker 3: make any of this up. 74 00:03:23,829 --> 00:03:26,749 Speaker 1: So, Nick, you had twenty two years in prison. 75 00:03:27,189 --> 00:03:29,389 Speaker 3: What was that like in solitary confinement? 76 00:03:29,709 --> 00:03:32,508 Speaker 2: In solitated A bit of it was inlid Yeah, man, 77 00:03:32,549 --> 00:03:34,749 Speaker 2: twenty three hours a day, twenty four hours a day, 78 00:03:35,069 --> 00:03:35,749 Speaker 2: all lockdown. 79 00:03:35,989 --> 00:03:37,189 Speaker 1: How do you deal with that? 80 00:03:37,309 --> 00:03:37,949 Speaker 3: What is I mean? 81 00:03:38,029 --> 00:03:40,469 Speaker 1: I've got so many questions around. It's the first thing 82 00:03:40,509 --> 00:03:42,229 Speaker 1: that comes to me. You think of that time. 83 00:03:42,629 --> 00:03:46,349 Speaker 2: I found out two things about myself. One, you can't 84 00:03:46,389 --> 00:03:49,469 Speaker 2: go against your nature. If you're a loving person, nothing 85 00:03:49,509 --> 00:03:52,549 Speaker 2: will change that. If you're a kind person, you'll be 86 00:03:52,549 --> 00:03:55,549 Speaker 2: a kind person no matter what. So I read over 87 00:03:55,629 --> 00:03:59,949 Speaker 2: nine four hundred books before I turned the journal over documentary. 88 00:04:00,069 --> 00:04:02,869 Speaker 2: Each book that I read to my lawyers. And then 89 00:04:03,229 --> 00:04:06,109 Speaker 2: I got other prisoners off of death row by doing 90 00:04:06,149 --> 00:04:08,629 Speaker 2: their legal work, and I helped men that were mentally 91 00:04:08,829 --> 00:04:10,109 Speaker 2: ill hang. 92 00:04:09,989 --> 00:04:11,109 Speaker 3: On as best as they could. 93 00:04:11,429 --> 00:04:13,709 Speaker 2: In total, I got three men off the death row 94 00:04:13,829 --> 00:04:17,749 Speaker 2: and four men out of the gallows themselves by my efforts. 95 00:04:18,229 --> 00:04:21,549 Speaker 2: I was the foremost knowledgeable person in DNA. I was 96 00:04:21,628 --> 00:04:26,109 Speaker 2: penthals with Sir Alec Jeffries from Leicester University, who invented 97 00:04:26,189 --> 00:04:29,669 Speaker 2: DNA testing. For twelve years. That man guided me through 98 00:04:29,709 --> 00:04:34,189 Speaker 2: the process of learning DNA. Oh my, I read all 99 00:04:34,229 --> 00:04:37,829 Speaker 2: of the world's religions. I can't tell you the name, 100 00:04:38,229 --> 00:04:40,748 Speaker 2: but I think you guys will be clever enough. 101 00:04:41,029 --> 00:04:43,709 Speaker 3: If I made an avatar. 102 00:04:43,189 --> 00:04:47,068 Speaker 2: Of myself, maybe that person would be now accepting the 103 00:04:47,149 --> 00:04:53,389 Speaker 2: role to play me in a major motion picture coming soon. Whoa, whoa. 104 00:04:53,469 --> 00:04:55,989 Speaker 4: If I were an avatar, I think I've put two 105 00:04:56,069 --> 00:04:56,749 Speaker 4: and two together. 106 00:04:56,988 --> 00:05:00,269 Speaker 2: That is okay, Sorry, but I. 107 00:05:00,269 --> 00:05:02,589 Speaker 4: Can actually say the likeness looking at your face as well, 108 00:05:02,629 --> 00:05:03,189 Speaker 4: which that is. 109 00:05:03,229 --> 00:05:03,868 Speaker 1: That is awesome and. 110 00:05:03,909 --> 00:05:06,269 Speaker 2: Sorry, right, and I can't say anything, but I just 111 00:05:06,309 --> 00:05:09,549 Speaker 2: found out, and it's amazing that I'm on the cusp 112 00:05:09,589 --> 00:05:11,789 Speaker 2: of going from an RV that was given to me 113 00:05:11,829 --> 00:05:15,069 Speaker 2: on the Native American preservation to go on and having 114 00:05:15,149 --> 00:05:15,909 Speaker 2: housing and. 115 00:05:15,829 --> 00:05:17,789 Speaker 3: Finally getting from the. 116 00:05:17,709 --> 00:05:21,229 Speaker 2: Devastation that I know I've been homeless the last four years. 117 00:05:22,469 --> 00:05:25,069 Speaker 1: I'm just actually speaking of playing you. So you mentioned 118 00:05:25,069 --> 00:05:28,949 Speaker 1: this before, but Adrian Brody is currently starring as you 119 00:05:29,269 --> 00:05:30,869 Speaker 1: in this play called The Fear of It and he's 120 00:05:30,909 --> 00:05:31,389 Speaker 1: going to do. 121 00:05:31,349 --> 00:05:34,308 Speaker 2: It again and yeah, and next spring he's going to 122 00:05:34,389 --> 00:05:35,948 Speaker 2: be bringing it to New York City. 123 00:05:35,988 --> 00:05:39,109 Speaker 1: Now, Writerrian, he's doing it because apparently someone sent him 124 00:05:39,149 --> 00:05:41,509 Speaker 1: the script and he said I couldn't get through this 125 00:05:41,589 --> 00:05:42,628 Speaker 1: script without crying. 126 00:05:43,109 --> 00:05:45,709 Speaker 3: So for a crime. Yeah, I know. I hung out 127 00:05:45,709 --> 00:05:48,469 Speaker 3: with him in London. I ain't supposed to say this, 128 00:05:48,509 --> 00:05:51,748 Speaker 3: but he took no money for playing me for months 129 00:05:51,789 --> 00:05:53,868 Speaker 3: in London, and he gave me that money. 130 00:05:53,949 --> 00:05:57,789 Speaker 2: Oh wow, Wow, this is a general, This is a 131 00:05:57,869 --> 00:05:58,748 Speaker 2: genteel man. 132 00:05:58,789 --> 00:06:01,629 Speaker 3: Do you understand. Yeah, you know you don't get paid 133 00:06:01,669 --> 00:06:02,149 Speaker 3: a lot in. 134 00:06:02,109 --> 00:06:05,029 Speaker 2: The theater anyway, But he said, Nick, I can't take 135 00:06:05,069 --> 00:06:06,029 Speaker 2: money from your hands. 136 00:06:06,069 --> 00:06:06,909 Speaker 3: And I love you man. 137 00:06:07,229 --> 00:06:13,109 Speaker 2: Wow. I went up on stage and I read a 138 00:06:13,149 --> 00:06:16,109 Speaker 2: fictitional love letter to the woman that I was married 139 00:06:16,109 --> 00:06:19,029 Speaker 2: to in prison. I queued up the song hold Onto 140 00:06:19,109 --> 00:06:21,629 Speaker 2: Your Heart by Man Man, and I walked off the 141 00:06:21,709 --> 00:06:24,709 Speaker 2: stage with a beautiful woman, telling the audience that I 142 00:06:24,749 --> 00:06:27,989 Speaker 2: wanted to fulfill being the hero of my own story, 143 00:06:28,109 --> 00:06:30,229 Speaker 2: like in the many thousands of books that I read. 144 00:06:30,749 --> 00:06:34,549 Speaker 2: I wanted to have that panache, that ability to walk 145 00:06:34,589 --> 00:06:36,629 Speaker 2: out in that moment. I didn't want to sell books 146 00:06:36,629 --> 00:06:38,629 Speaker 2: and hang out afterwards and beat everybody. 147 00:06:38,909 --> 00:06:41,389 Speaker 3: I went off to the Londoner in downtown London and 148 00:06:41,429 --> 00:06:43,389 Speaker 3: had made love to the woman I was in love with. 149 00:06:43,469 --> 00:06:45,429 Speaker 3: Man Oh, beautiful ne