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Speaker 1: Well, I think good books have to start with a

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Speaker 1: good question, and I go back to the work of

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Speaker 1: a very well known scholar who wrote a paper on

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Speaker 1: the science of the interesting, and what he found was

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Speaker 1: that to make something interesting, it should challenge weekly held assumptions.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics

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Speaker 2: used by leading innovators to get so much out of

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Speaker 2: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an

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Speaker 2: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm

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Speaker 2: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day. My

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Speaker 2: guest on today's show is Riada McGrath. Rita is a

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Speaker 2: world renowned professor at Columbia Business School, where she directs

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Speaker 2: the popular Leading Strategic Growth and Change Program. Rita is

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Speaker 2: widely recognized as an expert on leading innovation and growth

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Speaker 2: during times of uncertainty, and she has received the number

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Speaker 2: one Achievement Award for Strategy from the prestigious Thinkers fifty

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Speaker 2: and has been consistently named one of the world's top

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Speaker 2: ten management Thinkers and it's bi annual ranking. Rita is

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Speaker 2: the author of the best selling book The End of

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Speaker 2: Competitive Advantage, and her latest book is Seeing Around Corners,

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Speaker 2: how to spot inflection points in business before they happen.

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Speaker 2: Rita's been rated one of the twenty five smartest women

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Speaker 2: to follow on Twitter by Fast Company and was also

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Speaker 2: voted HR Magazine's most influential international thinker. So it probably

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Speaker 2: goes without saying that I was very excited to speak

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Speaker 2: to Rita. I've followed Reader's work for several years, and

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Speaker 2: I got connected with her personally after one of my

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Speaker 2: teammates was lucky enough to be taught by her at

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Speaker 2: Columbia University. So in this chat we have quite a

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Speaker 2: few different topics, ranging from how Reader prioritizes what to

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Speaker 2: work on, her process for coming up with new ideas

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Speaker 2: and writing books, and also how she assembled her own

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Speaker 2: personal board of directors. So on that note, let's go

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Speaker 2: over to Rita to hear about how she works. Rita,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's a pleasure to join you now. I think it's.

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Speaker 2: Always interesting doing these interviews towards the end of the year,

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Speaker 2: because we're pretty much in mid December, where you know,

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Speaker 2: about a week away from the whole world going on

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Speaker 2: Christmas holidays, and I'm curious as to whether you have

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Speaker 2: any sort of rituals around this time of year, whether

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Speaker 2: they be you know, setting up goals or priorities for

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Speaker 2: the new year, reflecting on the year that's been. How

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Speaker 2: do you kind of operate at this time of year

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Speaker 2: in terms of working out what twenty twenty is going

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Speaker 2: to bring For myself?

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Speaker 1: I have a pattern of going with my husband to Ireland,

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Speaker 1: and I find that being in a completely different context

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Speaker 1: than the one i'm normally naturally leads to you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of time for reflection and introspections. So I

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Speaker 1: think that's probably as much of an annual ritual as

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Speaker 1: I get involved with.

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Speaker 2: Do you set new year's goals or resolutions or anything

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Speaker 2: like that.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes this year we have Last year was mainly about

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Speaker 1: getting the book out, you know, I've just written a

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Speaker 1: book called Seeing Around Corners, and so for last year

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Speaker 1: that was really the dominant activity and everything really had

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Speaker 1: to do with that. So now that that's in the

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Speaker 1: rearview mirror, we're getting ready to look at what the

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Speaker 1: next the next set of things should be and how.

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Speaker 2: Do you land on that. What's what's your process for

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Speaker 2: prioritization and thinking about what is the next thing?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think like most people, you know, it has

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Speaker 1: several different areas of activity. So there's economic you know,

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Speaker 1: how we're going to pay the bills and keep the

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Speaker 1: lights on. There's what am I really passionately interested in?

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Speaker 1: And then there's you know, what are the things that

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Speaker 1: I'm uniquely able to do that other people can't do?

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Speaker 1: And it's usually that ven diagram that leads to things

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Speaker 1: rising to the top of the heap.

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Speaker 2: That's very sensible. I think that, you know, we find

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Speaker 2: that with the work that we do, people really struggle

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Speaker 2: with with prioritizing and I guess having those different lenses

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Speaker 2: and looking for that crossover in the Venn diagram, and

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Speaker 2: I think is a really practical way of approaching that.

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Speaker 2: Is that how you've always done it, either consciously or unconsciously,

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Speaker 2: or is that something that's evolved for you.

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Speaker 1: It's evolved for years what I've been doing. And of course,

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Speaker 1: as you know, with our the kind of work that

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Speaker 1: we do, there's always the question of should you accept

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Speaker 1: a specific engagement or not. And what I actually developed

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Speaker 1: was a scoring system that what it basically does is

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Speaker 1: it takes each of those dimensions of strategy and gives

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Speaker 1: it one of three possible scores. So it gets a

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Speaker 1: nine if it's absolutely perfect, it gets a three if

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it could go when we're another and

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Speaker 1: it gets a one, or even a negative score if

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Speaker 1: it's a negative on that dimension. And so what I

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Speaker 1: did some years back was I took the previous year's

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Speaker 1: engagements and ran them through that set of lenses. And

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Speaker 1: it was very interesting because all the things that in

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Speaker 1: retrospect I really wish I hadn't spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time on fell below a definite threshold. And so I

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Speaker 1: started to use that now going forward prospectively to make

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Speaker 1: those kinds of time allocation decisions.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, I love that. That's very systematic. And so

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Speaker 2: what sort of projects would you apply to that? Because

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Speaker 2: your life is very very dear obviously a professor at Columbia,

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Speaker 2: you do consulting work, you do speaking work, you're a writer.

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Speaker 2: Can you take me through an example engagement maybe that's

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Speaker 2: come across your desk, and just how you applied that criteria.

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Speaker 1: Sure, So we had one just a little bit earlier

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Speaker 1: from a for profit retailer who wanted me to come

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Speaker 1: and facilitate a major management retreat. And when I looked

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Speaker 1: at it through the lens of this scoring. You know,

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Speaker 1: weren't really willing to pay normal rates. It was going

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Speaker 1: to involve a fair amount of travel. I didn't see

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Speaker 1: it really as being spectacularly something that only I could do.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think anyone who was fairly competent at

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Speaker 1: facility retreats could help them out with that. So it

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Speaker 1: sort of fell short on those dimensions. And if I

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Speaker 1: were to contrast that with something where I'd say, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I really want to be part of that, it would

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Speaker 1: be Just recently, I was, in fact at to see

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Speaker 1: the Insights Collective conference, and so this was a conference

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Speaker 1: dedicated to corporate innovation, and the people at the conference

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Speaker 1: would all be you know, innovators, entrepreneurs, technologists, and you know,

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Speaker 1: even though it wasn't really a paid engagement, the fact

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Speaker 1: that the group was so attractive and that the topic

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Speaker 1: was so right on what I do, really got it

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Speaker 1: on my calendar. So you know, it's not always about

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Speaker 1: the money, right, It's often about what's the audience, like

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Speaker 1: are they good contacts for the future of that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing? And then of course you do get I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you get this too. All those people who say, oh, oh,

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Speaker 1: we should come to my conference and do it for

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Speaker 1: free because it'll be great exposure. Yes, yes, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: like all the people that asked you to write articles

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Speaker 1: for them for nothing. You know, it's not well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's some of sometimes they're right and then I would

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Speaker 1: I would agree, but a lot of times they're not.

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Speaker 2: I know, yes, I certainly get a lot of those.

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Speaker 2: I've solved that problem in my own life recently by

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Speaker 2: deciding to finally go exclusive with the Speaker's Bureau, which

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Speaker 2: is which has been a good decision thus far.

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Speaker 1: Which one are you with with Saxton?

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Speaker 2: So I know they've got a presence in the US,

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Speaker 2: so they're the biggest one over here in Australia. M yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm curious, do you you know, do you also do that?

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Speaker 2: Do you think about ways where you know, I guess

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Speaker 2: you are faced with a lot of decisions in your

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Speaker 2: working life where you potentially outsource those decisions in a

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Speaker 2: way that takes away you know, we've all, you know,

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Speaker 2: soffa from decision fatigue. You know, I'm curious, how do

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Speaker 2: you minimize the amount of decisions because that's certainly one

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Speaker 2: way that I've started to do that in my own life.

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Speaker 1: With respect to outsourcing decisions. I have the world's best

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Speaker 1: assistant ever and over the years, and we've worked together

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Speaker 1: for about five years now, we've really honed a system

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Speaker 1: for very systematically going through how people want time on

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Speaker 1: my calendar and how to prioritize. And so she, you know,

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Speaker 1: she knows to get well first of all, she knows

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Speaker 1: what information to collect so that we can even begin

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Speaker 1: to make a decision, which is I find half the battle.

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Speaker 1: You know. People will say, oh, can you come to Austin,

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Speaker 1: Texas on October third, and then they don't tell you

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Speaker 1: what the event is, or what the budget is, or

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Speaker 1: you know, exactly how long you're supposed to be there,

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Speaker 1: you know. So the first thing she does is really

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Speaker 1: gather up enough information that we can even begin to

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Speaker 1: make a decision. And then what she'll do is she'll

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Speaker 1: bring it to me with the recommendation, and we probably

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Speaker 1: are on the phone, you know, once once or twice

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Speaker 1: a week, just going through the stuff that sort of related,

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Speaker 1: and then we make it as it and we move

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Speaker 1: on and she handles it from there.

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Speaker 2: Ah, that's great. And how systematic are you there? Like

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Speaker 2: in the early days where you just started working together.

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Speaker 2: Do you almost have like a briefing document, you know,

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Speaker 2: if this request comes in, get this, this and this

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Speaker 2: information or did it happen more organically.

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Speaker 1: Well, she's a certified virtual assistant and one of her

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Speaker 1: previous clients was an executive coach who ran training programs

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Speaker 1: all over the world, So she came into the relationship

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Speaker 1: with a fair amount of practice around how to make

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Speaker 1: this easier and how to get it done more systematically,

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Speaker 1: and then the two of us kind of worked out well.

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Speaker 1: For me, you know, what are the things I would

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Speaker 1: want to know and what are the things that would

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Speaker 1: make something more or less attractive?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like having an assistant, virtual or otherwise

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Speaker 2: is quite a game changer. I think for me, one

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Speaker 2: of the things I found when I first had an

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Speaker 2: assistant years ago now is getting used to delegating. It

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Speaker 2: felt very odd to give someone tasks that I was

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Speaker 2: so used to doing, but also very freeing. Was that

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Speaker 2: something that came naturally to you in terms of just

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Speaker 2: giving over as much work as you possibly could, that

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Speaker 2: was within, you know, their sphere of competencies.

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Speaker 1: Well, with the scheduling and the calendar work. I don't

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Speaker 1: give that a second thought. Anymore. She's absolutely got that.

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Speaker 1: Where I find I get myself into trouble is there

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Speaker 1: are things that, like a piece of it is something

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Speaker 1: I should be doing. So as an example, we have

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Speaker 1: a CRM system that we use to keep track of

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Speaker 1: clients and relationships and so forth. And so I'll come

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Speaker 1: back from a business conference like this collective conference I

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Speaker 1: was just telling you about, and I'll have a stack

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Speaker 1: of business cards and you know, quite sensibly I could

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Speaker 1: give it to another one of my assistants who does

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Speaker 1: this and have them put in our system and just

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Speaker 1: tell her what the comments are about it. And I'll

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Speaker 1: find myself sitting there typing things in because I'm like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: if I just put it in the system, I'm like

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Speaker 1: the notes write then and it's one step through, won't

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Speaker 1: get lost. And really I shouldn't be doing that, and

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Speaker 1: I know it, but it's sort of seductive when you

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Speaker 1: know you could just take ten minutes and get that done, right.

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Speaker 2: Oh I know, I know, yes, yes, I'm about to

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Speaker 2: embark on a process for the new year of just

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Speaker 2: going what are all the repetitive tasks that I find

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Speaker 2: myself doing because I haven't been able to be bothered

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Speaker 2: training someone up or writing a step by step guide

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Speaker 2: as to how this happens. But if I actually did that,

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Speaker 2: I could save myself hours every week.

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Speaker 1: I think it's two things to me. One is really

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Speaker 1: having the time to make the investment to do that

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Speaker 1: to get someone up to speed, and then the other

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Speaker 1: thing is really being willing to let go and even

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Speaker 1: if they don't do it the Thame way you would have.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of things that honestly, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, and I think that's where

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Speaker 1: my perfectionist tendencies get in the way.

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Speaker 2: I can definitely relate to that. Now, I want to

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Speaker 2: talk about your writing. You're such a prolific writer with

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Speaker 2: all the books that you've written and the articles that

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Speaker 2: you write, and I want to know, particularly with books,

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Speaker 2: where do your book ideas come from, because I feel

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Speaker 2: like it's such a commitment starting a new book project,

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Speaker 2: given it is something that generally is going to take

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Speaker 2: you know, around a year to write, and then you're

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Speaker 2: on the publicity track for you know, the six months

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Speaker 2: after launch or three months after launch. So yeah, can

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Speaker 2: you tell me we're seeing around corners your latest book,

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Speaker 2: how that idea emerged? And when you realized, yes, this

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Speaker 2: is the next book project.

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Speaker 1: Well, the seeds of this book were really found in

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Speaker 1: the last book, which was called The End of Competitive Advantage.

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Speaker 1: And the premise of the last book was that in

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Speaker 1: strategy for years, we've had this notion of durable, long

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Speaker 1: term competitive advantage. And you know, that's great if you

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Speaker 1: can find one. But what I started to observe in

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Speaker 1: more and more of the economy is that this belief,

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Speaker 1: this thinking that you're on top of the world and

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Speaker 1: things aren't going to change, can actually be kind of

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Speaker 1: a dangerous trap. And so that was the big sort

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Speaker 1: of ah the last one, and I talked about the

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Speaker 1: fact that we needed a new playbook for strategy given

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Speaker 1: those conditions, and that very naturally leads to the question

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Speaker 1: of well, how do you know, you know, what's the timing?

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Speaker 1: I mean, is this a tomorrow kind of thing or

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Speaker 1: a ten years from now kind of thing or somewhere

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Speaker 1: in between. And that got me thinking about, well, what

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Speaker 1: are the things that happen in the environment that change

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Speaker 1: the story that your strategy is telling. And so at

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Speaker 1: that point I just started mulling it over and mulling

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Speaker 1: it over, and with books to me, there's a period

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Speaker 1: of gestation where I'm just gathering up bits and bobs

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Speaker 1: and seeing what fits and what doesn't. And then this

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Speaker 1: particular book crystallized in an article that a friend sent me,

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Speaker 1: and it was a blog post, and it basically said,

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Speaker 1: what if you changed the world and nobody noticed? And

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Speaker 1: the opening story in the blog post was about the

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Speaker 1: Wright brothers, and this person had sort of identified the

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Speaker 1: timeline of the Right brothers in their historic flight at Kiddihawk,

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Speaker 1: And then went and looked at all the newspapers of

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Speaker 1: the time, and there was a glancing mentioned like two

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Speaker 1: years later. And it took about four and a half

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Speaker 1: years before serious editors, journalists, writers started to say, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, this is a fundamentally, you know, humanity changing

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Speaker 1: innovation that's happened. And it made me think of the

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Speaker 1: line from Hemingway's book in the Sun also rises when

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Speaker 1: one character asks another, so how did you go bankrupt?

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Speaker 1: And the answer was well, gradually and then suddenly, and

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Speaker 1: I thought to myself, that's it. You know, strategic inflection

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Speaker 1: points feel as though they're happening, you know, in a

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Speaker 1: blinding flash, but when you really look, most of them

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Speaker 1: have been brewing forever and that's where the strategic opportunity

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Speaker 1: comes from. So that then led to the eventual structure

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Speaker 1: of the book, which was, how do you see these

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Speaker 1: inflection points coming, how do you decide what to do

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Speaker 1: about because it's not always obvious, and then how do

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Speaker 1: you bring the organization with you, which is often the

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Speaker 1: most difficult part.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting what you were saying around that period when

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Speaker 2: you're writing a book before you actually start writing a book,

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Speaker 2: and I remember, I love Perennial Seller by Ryan Holiday.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to imagine that you're perhaps familiar with some

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Speaker 2: of his work.

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Speaker 1: I'm ah okay.

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Speaker 2: He's a brilliant and also very prolific nonfiction writer, and

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Speaker 2: he talks about the like his process of book writing,

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Speaker 2: where before he I guess, puts pen to paper. In

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Speaker 2: terms of writing the manuscript, there's this period and from memory,

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Speaker 2: I think it's called the drawdown period or something like that,

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Speaker 2: where he's basically incubating on the idea, not really committing

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Speaker 2: to a structure or a text or anything at that point,

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Speaker 2: but it's this incubation period and I feel like you

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Speaker 2: kind of reference something like that. Can you talk a

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Speaker 2: bit more about what that looks like before you actually

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Speaker 2: start doing that planning of mapping out the structure of

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Speaker 2: the book and actually writing it.

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Speaker 1: Sure, well, I think good books have to start with

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Speaker 1: a good question. And I go back to the work

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Speaker 1: of you know, a very well known scholar who wrote

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Speaker 1: a paper on the science of the interesting, and what

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Speaker 1: he found was that to make something interesting, it should

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Speaker 1: challenge weekly held assumptions. And so I think you start

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Speaker 1: off with a good question, and then you know, as

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Speaker 1: you read and think about what could that be. And

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Speaker 1: I went through a number of different ideas before finally

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Speaker 1: settling on the strategic inflection point idea. The first was

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Speaker 1: I thought it would be really interesting to study unintended consequences.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there's not that much work actually that's

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Speaker 1: been done on unintended consequences, and most of it has

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Speaker 1: come from economics. And what I found is it's really

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Speaker 1: really hard to study unintended consequences because it almost requires

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Speaker 1: that you have, you know, the known outcome and then

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Speaker 1: and then seeing what people thought might happen would be different.

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Speaker 1: So it's very it's it turned out just not to

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Speaker 1: be a very tractable subject, at least not yet. And

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Speaker 1: I may I may do one on it yet, because

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Speaker 1: I still think it's a fascinating concept. Then I also

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Speaker 1: looked at complexity. There was some work that had been

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Speaker 1: done on the science of complexity that would be interesting.

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Speaker 1: And then I was thinking of doing a book on

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Speaker 1: corporate corporate venturing or corporate innovation. But each of those,

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Speaker 1: for various reasons, didn't sort of they didn't. They didn't

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Speaker 1: continue as interesting as I sorted to look into them.

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Speaker 1: Whereas the strategic inflection point idea, which was really something

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Speaker 1: developed by Andy Grove back in the nineties. He talked

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Speaker 1: about it in his book Only the Paranoid Survive, and

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Speaker 1: I went back to that book and reread it. And

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Speaker 1: what Grove's book really did was talk about the period

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Speaker 1: after the inflection is upon you. And what I thought

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Speaker 1: we could use is a book that really looks before that,

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Speaker 1: hence the seeing around corners, so before it's obvious to

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Speaker 1: everybody what's going on, and before the inflection point has

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Speaker 1: really rolled out, what are the things you could be

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Speaker 1: looking at, What are the weak signals you could pick up.

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Speaker 1: So that was the process of sort of gathering stuff up,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I've got tons of computer files with

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Speaker 1: notes and things I read a tremendous amount, and so

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Speaker 1: when I see something that I think is potentially interesting,

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Speaker 1: it goes into a file. And then if the idea

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Speaker 1: continues to develop, then that may then turn into something

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Speaker 1: that could be a book.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting. Hearing you talk about, I guess the contenders

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Speaker 2: for what the next book was going to be. How

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Speaker 2: do you make that final decision? Is it very much

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Speaker 2: a gout or intuition led thing for you? Is it

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Speaker 2: a data driven thing? How does that work?

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Speaker 1: The first question I have to ask is is this

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Speaker 1: topic interesting enough that I could stick with it for

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Speaker 1: what two or three years? This thing is going to

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Speaker 1: be in your life. Isn't like picking a dissertation topic

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Speaker 1: almost You have to really love it. So there has

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Speaker 1: to be enough of interest. It has to for me anyway,

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Speaker 1: it's got to be a broadly interesting question. So if

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Speaker 1: I go back to my previous books, you know, one

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Speaker 1: was looking at why why is there so often really

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Speaker 1: surprising growth from seemingly unattractive markets? And that became Marketbusters,

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Speaker 1: which was, you know, looking at these different lenses through

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Speaker 1: which you could look at even unattractive markets and find

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Speaker 1: places there where you could drive corporate growth, So it's

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Speaker 1: got to be really interesting to me, and it's got

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Speaker 1: a Secondly, I think it's got to have broad applicability,

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Speaker 1: Like I wouldn't be so interested in writing a book

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Speaker 1: about a very niche kind of situation, you know, where

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Speaker 1: it would only be a certain kind of person who

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Speaker 1: would who would be interested. And that's why the corporate

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Speaker 1: venturing book sort of took second place to this more

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Speaker 1: strategically oriented book. So is it interesting to me? Is

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Speaker 1: it interesting to others? And then I think there's a

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Speaker 1: question of well, do I have something really new to

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Speaker 1: say about it? And in the case of strategic complexion points,

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Speaker 1: I thought I did.

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Speaker 2: I like that process. And I want to come back

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Speaker 2: to what you say said that you read a lot,

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Speaker 2: which comes as no surprise this might sound like a

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Speaker 2: strange question, but what is your approach to reading? I'm

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Speaker 2: fascinated by this because I think, firstly, there's not that

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Speaker 2: many people that read a lot in this world, which

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Speaker 2: I think is quite sad. I think the average person

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Speaker 2: reads one book a year or something hideously low like that.

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Speaker 2: And interestingly, one of my team members sent round a

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Speaker 2: blog post yesterday that talked about just some interesting methods

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Speaker 2: for actually reading books so that they change you as

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Speaker 2: opposed to the words just passing through you. So with

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Speaker 2: a book or a journal, paper or a blog, what's

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Speaker 2: your approach to reading.

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Speaker 1: Well, I would say that it's very social. Actually, I

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Speaker 1: belong to a number of different communities that will pass

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Speaker 1: on books or ideas or articles that they're interested in.

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Speaker 1: So I'm a member of an entity called Silicon Guild,

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Speaker 1: which is a group of authors who you know, come

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Speaker 1: and don help each other, promote each other's work, and

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Speaker 1: so when they publish something, obviously that's something that would

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Speaker 1: get to the top of my priority list. I follow

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Speaker 1: people on Twitter and on LinkedIn who I don't perhaps

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Speaker 1: always know so well, and they will pop up things

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Speaker 1: in the feed that I think, oh, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: I should have honed in on that a bit more narrowly.

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Speaker 1: So that's another source. I do keep all the sort

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Speaker 1: of standard issue business journals around, So I subscribed to

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Speaker 1: BusinessWeek and Fortune and Fast Company and Wired, and you

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Speaker 1: know the usual cast of characters. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't always get through each of those in detail, but

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Speaker 1: you sort of skim enough to see whether there's something

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Speaker 1: really interesting there that needs a deeper dive. So it

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Speaker 1: comes from a lot of different places.

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Speaker 2: So that's interesting in terms of where the inspiration to

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Speaker 2: rate certain books is coming from. And then when it

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Speaker 2: comes to the rating itself, what are you doing with

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Speaker 2: the actual Let's say, you know, are you scribbling all

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Speaker 2: over it? Do you have a notes file where you're

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Speaker 2: recording your key takeouts? Do you reflect at the end

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Speaker 2: of the book. What does that look like?

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Speaker 1: Well, it depends what I'm reading the book for, I

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Speaker 1: should say. So, if I'm just reading the book to

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Speaker 1: find out more about what's going in it, then I

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Speaker 1: tend not to take a lot of notes or you know,

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Speaker 1: I tend to read it and then reflect on it.

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Speaker 1: But let's say it's a book I'm reading for, you know,

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Speaker 1: in service of a specific project. So let's say it's

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Speaker 1: a book I'm reading because I think something that author

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Speaker 1: has to say might be useful in my book. Then

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Speaker 1: it's a very conscious book at the desk notes at

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Speaker 1: the already recapturing what's said in the book and transcribing

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Speaker 1: that into my notes file the for the book. So

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Speaker 1: it really depends on whether I'm reading it because it's

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Speaker 1: generally interesting. So I'll give you an example. Alberto Savoya,

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Speaker 1: who's a member of this Silicon Guild that I mentioned.

435
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: I wrote a fantastic book last year called The Right

436
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 1: to It, and it's all about a process he's designed,

437
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 1: which he calls pret typing, which is basically, how do

438
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 1: you get as much information from the market as possible

439
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: about a new idea before you make a big commitment

440
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 1: to it. And he'd sent me one and said, you know,

441
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: would I be willing to read it and comment on

442
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: it and so forth? And so I said sure and

443
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: read it and found it was absolutely fascinating. And then

444
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: there were a few ideas in that book which I

445
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 1: then thought enough of to go and capture for my book,

446
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: and I wrote a review and that kind of thing.

447
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: So that would be a case of opening up a

448
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 1: book without really knowing what to expect and being sort

449
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: of pleasantly surprised. And then other books are much as

450
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: much more intentional. You know, you can't write about X,

451
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 1: y Z without reading this, that or the other.

452
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 2: You mentioned that some of your inspiration comes from people

453
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 2: you follow on social media for what to read next?

454
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: Can I ask who some of those people might be

455
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 2: that you value their recommendations?

456
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: Well, they don't necessarily recommend. What they do is they'll

457
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: they live in a different world than I do. Right, So, so,

458
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 1: just as an example, there's a gentleman I met at

459
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: a conference a long time ago called Our Data Edelman,

460
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 1: who was one of the youngest technologists ever in the

461
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: technology side of the Obama administration. And now I think

462
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: he's associated with MIT now kind of a think tank

463
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: sort of person, and he'll just post really interesting takes

464
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: on things having to do with cybersecurity, or things having

465
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 1: to do with the workings of government or how certain

466
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: decisions get made, not sort of directly in my wheelhouse,

467
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: but interesting and parallel to it. And every so often

468
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: he'll post something and I said, yeah, I really should

469
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: get smarter about that and go do a deep dive

470
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: that's interesting.

471
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 2: And I know you, you know, something you talk about

472
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 2: is the importance of bringing in those diverse perspectives. And

473
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 2: I had Adam Grant on the podcast very early on

474
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: in the life cycle of how I work, and something

475
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: I know he speaks about is creating challenge networks where

476
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 2: you kind of build these diverse people around you, and

477
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 2: who he would deliberately go to to ask for criticism

478
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 2: instructive feedback of work that he's doing. I'm curious, do

479
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 2: you have something like that in your own life, particularly

480
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: with all the content and original content that you are producing.

481
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: Well, I have people whose roles it is to do that. So,

482
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: for example, at Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, I have an editor

483
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: who's absolutely a blunt about what he likes and what

484
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: he doesn't. So that's super helpful on my own team.

485
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: I get a lot of feedback from them on For example,

486
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: I do a monthly newsletter on a different topic each month,

487
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: and I'll get feedback from them on you know this

488
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: kind of mad sense? This didn't I didn't understand that.

489
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 1: So in that sense, in sort of the ordinary day

490
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: to day when I think about bigger picture issues, I

491
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: think it's helpful to have something like the personal board

492
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: of directors that you know, people whose opinion you respect,

493
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: that you would bounce things off of. So I definitely

494
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: do that.

495
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: And a personal board of directors. Tell me more about that.

496
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: Well, if you think about what a board of directors,

497
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: when they're functioning properly, should do for a company, which

498
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: they don't, but that's a whole nother conversation. When they're

499
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: working right, they you know, they think about the long

500
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: term welfare of the enterprise. They point out when they

501
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: think something's being overlooked or omitted. They lend their experience

502
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: and their wisdom to the endeavors of the organization. And

503
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: I think the personal board of directors is much the same.

504
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: You know, there are people who you can reach out

505
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: to who will give you feedback, who might be able

506
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: to be connectors for you to someone else, who might

507
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: have access to resources that you may not have. So

508
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: it's a much more intense relationship than the standard sort

509
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: of networking relationship is in the sense of, you know,

510
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,719
Speaker 1: what they say really makes a material difference, but it

511
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be time consuming. I think that's something

512
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: people often misunderstand. You know, there are a couple of

513
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: people I would put in that category who I talk

514
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: to you maybe twice a year, but if it's a

515
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: really big decision, I really do try to get that

516
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 1: kind of unbarnished feedback.

517
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 2: And what they know, so that they're on your personal

518
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: board of directors. Is that a formal thing or would

519
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 2: they be like, what are you talking about RITA?

520
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, they don't. And I never saw the real

521
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: need to formalize it. Some people do I have an

522
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: acquaintance to definitely. He actually his business is setting up

523
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: and managing people's personal board of directors.

524
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, wow, oh wow.

525
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 1: Interesting.

526
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: That is fascinating. I remember reading when I was researching

527
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 2: for this interview, you said that when you were writing

528
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 2: Setting around Corners, you said that one of your favorite

529
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 2: quotes was your future is highly likely to be dictated

530
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: by forces that you have been trying to avoid. And

531
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 2: I've found that such an interesting, thought provoking quote, and

532
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 2: I want to know, Yes, that is brilliant. That is brilliant,

533
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: and I want to know how how can you relate

534
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 2: to this personally in your career or even life outside

535
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 2: of your career.

536
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: Well, I think in any of our lives, there are

537
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: things that don't go the way that we'd expected or hoped,

538
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 1: and oftentimes, you know, those are the things that take

539
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: you in a new direction that you might not have

540
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: thought of before. And I think if you're willing to

541
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,719
Speaker 1: sort of swallow hard and say, Okay, that didn't work

542
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: out the way I plan, but you know, one door closes,

543
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: others open, and I think that's really the way you

544
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: have to look at these things. So I've got a

545
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: whole body of work on managing I'll call it managing

546
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: failure because that's the way people think about it, but

547
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: it's really not. It's having things happen that you didn't

548
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: expect or perhaps didn't desire, but that create a different

549
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: future that may be worse, you know, in some ways,

550
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: but it may be better. And I mean, I'm sure

551
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: you've had dozens of examples of people who've lost a job,

552
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: or not gotten a contract, or had a falling out

553
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: you know, with a partner, or various other things that eventually,

554
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: once the dust had settled, ended up being better for everybody.

555
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 2: M Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, it's yeah, it's an interesting

556
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 2: quite to reflect on. Something else that I really loved

557
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 2: is the title Seeing around Corners, And I am forever

558
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,959
Speaker 2: fascinated like being a writer myself. And I just think

559
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 2: one of the hardest parts of writing a book is

560
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 2: actually working out what is the title given? You know,

561
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 2: I mean, so much work I believe needs to go

562
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 2: into that because that can often be the make or

563
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 2: break point in terms of whether someone will pick up

564
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: your book or not. And I remember I had Dan

565
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: Pink on the show a few months ago, earlier this year,

566
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: and he was talking about his process for creating book titles,

567
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: of which I think he's a bit of a master

568
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: at I want to know what does that process look

569
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: like for you? Because I do love the title Seeing

570
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 2: Around Corners, and I love the titles of you, yeah,

571
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: of your other books as well, So what does that

572
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 2: look like for you?

573
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: Well, usually what happens is I start off with a

574
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: title I think is awesome, and then my publisher looks

575
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: at it and goes, no, it's terrible. Yes, I would

576
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: say it's a fair amount of iteration, I don't think,

577
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: but Dan Pink's level a little. This one was really

578
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: a collaborative effort of the publisher and myself, and the

579
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: working title for the proposal for the book was it

580
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: was gradually then suddenly, And as we discussed it, we thought,

581
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: that's going to get kind of a bifurcated response. There

582
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: are going to be some of my audience that are

583
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: really going to love it and get the illusion immediately,

584
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: and then there are going to be a whole lot

585
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: more popular going what is this hemingway? What you know?

586
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: What is she talking about? And so so we decided

587
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: to make it as accessible I would say, as possible

588
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: and that's where you know, who wouldn't want to see

589
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:36,479
Speaker 1: around a corner.

590
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: I find it hard though, when you've got a working

591
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: title for a book, you can get irrationally attached to it.

592
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: I find yes, well, Mike. Like my very first book,

593
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: I had an absolute knockdown drag out with the publisher

594
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: over the title and got overruled. I wanted to call

595
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: it discovery driven Strategy, because you know, my early work

596
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: was around discovery d and planning and how do you

597
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: plan for conditions of high uncertainty and all that, and

598
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: this was this would have been in the ninety ninety

599
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: eight nineteen ninety nine time frame, and so they overruled me,

600
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: and they called the book The Entrepreneurial Mindset. And my

601
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: objection to that was that you know, it was going

602
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: to instantly find its way into the small business shelves

603
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: and is which happened. And then the other thing that

604
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: happened was the Great Recession, and nobody wanted to read

605
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: about entrepreneurship in the Great Recession. And what I was

606
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: sad about that was that, you know, it's now taken.

607
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: I would say it took ten years for the lean Startup,

608
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: which drew on the same ideas to be published, and

609
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: it's now taken till now for people to really say, oh,

610
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: this is a really different way of thinking. We need

611
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: to approach things in a different way. So the sort

612
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: of lean startup design thinking, you know, all that stuff

613
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: really came from that set of ideas, which was that

614
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: you've got and I mean many other people were working

615
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: in this area too, but that basically said, you know,

616
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: you can't do business as usual when you're in a

617
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: rapidly changing and or uncertain situation. And it's a shame

618
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: because I think had the title been more evocative of

619
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: what the book was really about, I think that change

620
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: might have happened fast.

621
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: It's interesting how, yeah, the title can really dictate where

622
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 2: you get pigeonholed, which is sometimes a good thing but

623
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: other times not a good thing. I want to know

624
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 2: how you write, like whether you have certain rituals around writing,

625
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 2: what is happening with other technology while you're writing, because

626
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: I'm quite fascinated by how this works. I'm a huge

627
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: fan of cal Newport and the concept of deep work,

628
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: and I remember having him on the show and how

629
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 2: he talked about how for different types of deep work,

630
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: of which writing is one of those, he would have

631
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: different rituals around it. I remember him saying that for

632
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: writing work he at home has this custom made desk

633
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 2: that he got made as a replica of the desks

634
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: that he would study at at the university library when

635
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 2: when he was a student, and when he sits down

636
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 2: at that desk, it's it's writing deep work that he's doing.

637
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 2: So I want to know for you, and perhaps you've

638
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 2: got different writing rituals depending on whether you're writing for

639
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 2: a journal or whether it's a book or an article,

640
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 2: what does that look like for you?

641
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: Well, I do you have a custom made desk? See

642
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: I too, it was, and I have two home offices

643
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: with mirror images of resil so that, yeah, when I

644
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: go from one to the other, it's it's I don't

645
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: need to sort of rethink how everything's laid out, which

646
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: is really wonderful. So I just basically plug in my

647
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: laptop and I'm good to go. So well, if it's

648
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: if it's book related, and typically with books, as you're

649
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: starting to really get serious about it, you're on a deadline, right,

650
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: So what I'll literally do is take my calendar and

651
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: block off writing days and just nobody, I mean unless

652
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: it's you know, Iceland is melting or there's a fire

653
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: next door. Nobody's allowed to put phone calls or anything

654
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: on those days. Because I do find or a book

655
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: style writing. You know, the stuff needs to be in

656
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: your head and it's very focused and very you know,

657
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: nose down. And it's interesting because I do a lot

658
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: of work out of my home office and my husband

659
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,240
Speaker 1: is a noise guy, by which I mean he's always

660
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: got the radio on or music playing or something like that,

661
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: and so I just basically retreat and shut the door,

662
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: and then I have to have it really quiet because

663
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: otherwise it's sort of like there's the radio playing. It

664
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: interfered with my thought process. I'm also not somebody who

665
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: listens to music while I read. I know a lot

666
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: of people do. I just I just find it distracting.

667
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: So I guess a quiet place and then a clarity

668
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: around what the project is, and then just figuring out

669
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: when when to carve out the time to actually do it.

670
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: And this is where the book tour was kind of

671
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: a I wouldn't say a setback, that's the wrong word,

672
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 1: but you know, you get used to having a certain

673
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: amount of discretionary time to write and then I didn't

674
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: for about three months, and some of these projects were

675
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: piling up because I try to do a monthly newsletter,

676
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, and there are other kinds of writing

677
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: that I do, like I'll get requests from newspapers for

678
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: an op ed, or I'll have the opportunity to place

679
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: something in something like Sloan Management Review, which I do,

680
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: and there'll be an article on digital disruption coming out

681
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: in March in that outlet. So it's really kind of

682
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: clearing the time and then sitting down and getting clarity

683
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: around what the content is that I'm trying to create.

684
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: Do you set yourself daily goals or anything like that.

685
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: No. What I did realize during twenty eighteen, for example,

686
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: with the newsletters, is that my process was really haphazard,

687
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: and by which I mean I'd pick a topic I

688
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: thought was interesting and then kind of write stuff about it.

689
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: And in twenty nineteen we got a lot more disciplined.

690
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: We started to do a video series where I'd do

691
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 1: two minute video newsletters in addition to the the longer

692
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: text based newsletters. And then in twenty nineteen, what I

693
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: also tried to do was do a newsletter schedule, you know,

694
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: a topic schedule in advance, which is super helpful because

695
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: then you were asking earlier about other people on the

696
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: team helping you, because then they know what's coming right,

697
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: they know what articles to steer me if they run

698
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: across them. If I meet somebody at a conference, they

699
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 1: know that, oh, you know, that'll be in the February newsletter.

700
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: So I think it's just a lot more organized. As

701
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: I've learned about how to do this, the newsletter process

702
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: has been absolutely fascinating because it's one way in which

703
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: I try to stay on top of things because it

704
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: really forces you to ask. That forces me to ask,

705
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: so what are the inflection points that are happening in food, say,

706
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: or packaging or transportation? You know what's really going on

707
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: in those sectors. And it's really fun to write. It's

708
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: very interesting, but frustrating because it's on a deadline, right,

709
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: I mean, a monthly newsletter needs to be monthly.

710
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, definitely. And how do you find that out?

711
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 2: How do you answer those questions? Have you got go

712
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 2: to sources, whether they be written sources or people's sources.

713
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 2: What does that look like?

714
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: Well? I really like CD Insights, which has a whole

715
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: team of researchers who just spend their time gathering up

716
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 1: interesting information about trends. You know the magazines I mentioned earlier,

717
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: Fast Company, Wired, Bloomberg, BusinessWeek. You know. If I'm working

718
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: on a particular topic, all often try to get smarter

719
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: about it by seeing what they've been writing about it.

720
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: So those are those sources I would start with. And

721
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: then if it's a really deep topical expert kind of

722
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: question I'm looking at, then I'd go to the trade

723
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: journals or the journals of people who really are deeply,

724
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: deeply immersed in what's going on.

725
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 2: But my final question for you, Rada, is for people

726
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: that want to consume more of your work or follow

727
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 2: you on the social channels, what is the best way

728
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 2: to do that?

729
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: Well on Twitter, I'm at r G McGrath. My website

730
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: is ridomograth dot com and all the newsletters, the archives,

731
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: old videos, you know, new videos. There's a ton of

732
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,919
Speaker 1: content on the website and that's freet we don't charge

733
00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: for it. And then if people want to get to

734
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: know more of my work, I'd encourage them to buy

735
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: Seeing around Corners, how to spot inflection points in business

736
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: before they happen, and what I'm doing for twenty twenty

737
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: is if an organization commits to buying two hundred books,

738
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 1: that I will do a live webinar on the topic

739
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: of their choice. So that might be something your listeners

740
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: might be interested in.

741
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 2: Oh that is that is a very appealing offer. I

742
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 2: like the sound of that. Oh fantastic. Well, Reata. I

743
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: love talking to you and hearing about your ways of working.

744
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time.

745
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: Thank you, this was a fun Hello there.

746
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 2: That is it for today's show. I hope you are

747
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: feeling very inspired after listening to that, and maybe you

748
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 2: are going to go out and start your own personal

749
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 2: board of directors. I know it's something that I am

750
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: now giving some serious thought to after hearing Rita talk

751
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: about it. So if you are enjoying how I work,

752
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 2: I would love it if you would leave a little

753
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 2: review in Apple Podcasts or wherever you've listened to this podcast.

754
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 2: It is super awesome getting feedback from listeners, and reviews

755
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: are also a great way to help spread the news

756
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 2: of the podcast. So thank you if you've already done that,

757
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 2: and thank you if you plan to do that today.

758
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 2: So that's it for today's show, and I will see

759
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 2: you next time,