1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcottin woman from Gadigl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily oz It's Tuesday, 8 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 2: the twenty third of January. I'm Sam, I'm Zara. A 9 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: group of Australian dads are calling for the federal government 10 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: to fund twelve weeks of paid parental leave for fathers 11 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 2: and non birthing parents. As it currently stands, there's a 12 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: limit on how much combined paid leave parents can take, 13 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 2: meaning when a dad or non birthing parent takes leave, 14 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 2: it reduces the number of weeks the other parent can take. 15 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: But a group of dads, including Hamish Blake and Red 16 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: Wiggle Simon Price, are calling for change. The Dad's Action 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 2: Plan for Early Years has launched a campaign to support 18 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: non birthing parents of a newborn to take more time 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 2: away from work. 20 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 3: And it's not just doing the hero superdad staff, taking 21 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 3: the kids to swimming or to the playground. It's also 22 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 3: about changing navies and washing the floors. 23 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,279 Speaker 2: In today's deep dive, I'm going to talk to David Munday. 24 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: He's a dad, he's a former AFL player and his 25 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 2: head of engagement and gender equality at the Mindarou Foundation, 26 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: which is pioneering this initiative. But Firs Aarah, what's making 27 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 2: headlines this morning? 28 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 4: Australians lost over twenty four million dollars to employment scams 29 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty three. That's an increase of more than 30 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 4: fifteen million dollars from twenty twenty two. The Australian Competition 31 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 4: and Consumer Commission, the a Triple C, found that eighteen 32 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 4: to forty four year olds are disproportionately affected by employment scams. 33 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 4: Things like scam ads promoting side hustles promising easy money 34 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 4: for workers looking for opportunities to earn extra money a 35 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 4: trible C. Deputy check Trina Lowe said scammers take advantage 36 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 4: of people like students looking for part time work to 37 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 4: supplement income in the cost of living crisis. 38 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: Former New South Wales detective Roger Rogerson has died aged 39 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: eighty three. Rogerson was dismissed from the police force in 40 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties over corruption allegations, including bribery and ties 41 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 2: to organized crime. Rogerson and fellow former detective Glenn McNamara 42 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 2: were sentenced to life in prison in twenty sixteen for 43 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 2: killing a twenty year old university student and drug dealer. 44 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: The cause of Rogerson's death has not been confirmed. 45 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 4: Florida Governor Ron de Santas has suspended his presidential campaign. 46 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 4: It comes just a week after he came second to 47 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 4: Donald Trump in those Iowa caucuses. Yesterday, he went out 48 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 4: and said that he would be endorsing Donald Trump for 49 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 4: the Republican nomination domestically. PM Anthony Alberanezi said the Australian 50 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 4: government would work with whoever wins the presidential election in November. 51 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: And today's good news. New research from the Massachusetts Institute 52 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 2: of Technology has discovered a way to detect and diagnose 53 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 2: can answer through blood tests. Cancer tumors shared DNA, which 54 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 2: is found in the blood stream. Newly developed blood tests, 55 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 2: which are more sensitive, could help highlight the DNA from 56 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: tumors to help doctors detect cancer earlier. The tests have 57 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 2: so far only been used on mice, but researchers were 58 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: hopeful the test could quote make things visible that previously 59 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 2: wouldn't have been. Dave, thanks so much for joining us 60 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: on the podcast today. 61 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 3: Is Samie a pleasure to be joining you. 62 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 2: So you're one of a group of dads calling for 63 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: a change in the way that we do parental leave 64 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: here in Australia. I want to get to what those 65 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: changes you're calling for actually are in a sec but 66 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: can you first paint me a picture of how it 67 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: currently stands for dads and non birth parents here. Yeah. 68 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 3: So, currently there's a mixture of arrangements that don't provide 69 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 3: dads with an equal opportunity to engage in their child's life, 70 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 3: particularly in the early stages of their life or as 71 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 3: a non birthing parent, and so they find it really 72 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 3: diff to meaningfully engage in that time period. And research 73 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 3: has shown that with the right level of engagement from 74 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 3: both parents, a child has the greatest opportunity to really 75 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: thrive by five. So we're calling for an action to 76 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 3: really increase that allowance for fathers or for non birthing 77 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 3: parents to work in collaboration in conjunction with their partner 78 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 3: to provide the best coverage and the best opportunity to 79 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 3: engage meaningfully in care and home. 80 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 2: Was that your personal experience as a dad. 81 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 3: Yes, I'm a father of three and we've worked our 82 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 3: way through these periods they're now ten, eight and six. 83 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 3: But my experience was a little bit different to the 84 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 3: norm I was in the AFL system when I had 85 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 3: my children, and so I had a little bit of 86 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 3: time in between training commitments and games and travel and 87 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 3: things like that to be able to engage back in 88 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 3: the home life, but really lacked that sustained period where 89 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 3: I could really embed myself into the day to day 90 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 3: operations caring for a child and running a household, and 91 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 3: it was very much just to add hoc, get home 92 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 3: and help out where I could, and my wife certainly 93 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 3: took up the brunt of that burden. 94 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 2: Okay, So now you're in the position where you're advocating 95 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: for some change to the way that that system currently operates. 96 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: What's the key change that you're calling. 97 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 3: So, I guess the key change is the policy around 98 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 3: print to leave. At the moment, we're calling for a 99 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 3: federally funded paid printal leave for fathers and non birthing 100 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 3: parents that doesn't detract from the mother's printal leaving titlements. 101 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 3: It's economically viable and so families can choose to use 102 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 3: it rather than lose it, and it's set up in 103 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 3: the way where it's sort of an economic burden for 104 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 3: parents to take paid printal leave and the entitlements for 105 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 3: fathers being increased up to twelve weeks. 106 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 2: Do you expect much kind of political opposition to something 107 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: like this. 108 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 3: Well, I guess in all forms of change and all 109 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 3: asks for change, there is a level of opposition, But 110 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 3: so far, the groundswell of support that we've experienced, both 111 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 3: through the Dad's Alliance group and also the nationally throw 112 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 3: by five group is that a lot of people, a 113 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 3: lot of organizations can really see the merit in it, 114 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 3: and the times and the experiences and the opportunities and 115 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 3: options for fathers have really progressed to the point where 116 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: the policy is falling behind and really lacking in that coverage. 117 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: Do you know if there's any countries overseas that have this, like, 118 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 2: is there a model out there that's inspiring you guys? 119 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 3: In the way that you're presenting, the Scandinavian countries are 120 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 3: the easiest ones to highlight. I guess as the best 121 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 3: examples of how they do childcare, both kindergartens and daycare 122 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 3: centers and things like that, but also paid printal leave, 123 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 3: and so they're obviously the model that we all aspire 124 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 3: to be, recognizing that their system is a lot different 125 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 3: to what we operate in here in Australia. But amongst 126 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 3: all OECD countries, which Australia is a part of, we 127 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,559 Speaker 3: are behind the times and behind the norms, I guess, 128 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 3: comparing ourselves to countries of the like in terms of 129 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 3: development and where we're at in our progressive state. So yeah, 130 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 3: there's a bit of work to do to get back 131 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 3: to the norm but we're excited by the opportunity in 132 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 3: the groundswell of support that we've received so far. 133 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 2: And you mentioned a couple of times there about early 134 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: childhood education and I know that's also part of what 135 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: your group is calling for. What are the changes that 136 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 2: you want to see in that space. 137 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, Thrive by five has been calling for this for 138 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 3: a long time to Throw by five campaign led by 139 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 3: Jay Weather all but us there is a funded, universal 140 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 3: access to high quality and affordable early learning system for 141 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 3: all children, regardless of location or circumstance. So there are 142 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 3: a few bits in that which make that really challenging, 143 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 3: and the obvious ones are the less advantage socio economic 144 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 3: areas and the really remote communities which lack in both services, 145 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: but also with that high quality aspect that we're really 146 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 3: looking for, and there's been a call for having that 147 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 3: universal access and universal pay per day level implemented through policy. 148 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 3: It's a really big ask and it's going to be 149 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 3: a really big shift, but it will have monumental benefit 150 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 3: for both families and children, and I like it's another 151 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 3: layer in that. In particular, asking point speaks to another 152 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 3: of our Dad's Alliance Action Plan items about educating and 153 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 3: encouraging men and males to engage in the early childhood workforce, 154 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 3: currently representing about to three percent of that workforce. So 155 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 3: it's a multi layered kind of Actually that's really interesting 156 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 3: item which requires a lot of letters to be put 157 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 3: in place, but as I said, has great benefit for 158 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 3: us in the future. 159 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 2: So I guess if we zoom out a bit here, 160 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, what all of the 161 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 2: asks are really pushing towards is giving fathers and non 162 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 2: birth parents and equal share of parenting beyond the actual legislation. 163 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: Do you think Australian men, perhaps even the Australian community 164 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: as a whole, need to shift the way that we 165 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: think about what parenting is and what it looks like. 166 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say there is still a shift required 167 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 3: how we think and how we idealize, particularly what fathering 168 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 3: looks like, because we I think we recognize and understand 169 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 3: the unique benefits that a mother brings to that relationship 170 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 3: and to that family dynamic. But I think there needs 171 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 3: to be an acknowledgment and an understanding that a father 172 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 3: also brings a unique benefit. And it's not just doing 173 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 3: the hero super dad stuff getting home from work and 174 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 3: taking the kids to swimming or to the playground and 175 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 3: engaging that really external fun stuff, but it's also about 176 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 3: changing nappies and washing the flaws and engaging in that 177 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 3: really fundamental basic home care that really gets overlooked when 178 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 3: we think about parenting and the stereotypical views of parenting 179 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 3: and who does what in the household. 180 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 2: What's your advice to prospective fathers. If you know someone 181 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: has just asked you at a family barbecue and they said, 182 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 2: I'm about to have a kid, what's your advice as 183 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 2: a father, what would you say. 184 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 3: Well, my first thing would be to congratulate them heartily. 185 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 3: Is an amazing transition that we go through the ones 186 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 3: of us who are fortunate enough to go through that. 187 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 3: But almost immediately following that, I would encourage them to 188 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 3: have conversations with people who have gone through it, with 189 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 3: their work colleagues, with their managers at work in particular, 190 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 3: because again a lot of the research suggests that, you know, 191 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 3: new fathers want to take their parental leave rights even 192 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,319 Speaker 3: as they stand currently, but they think their manager will 193 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 3: say no, and they think that that will put them 194 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 3: behind the pecking order for promotions coming up or career progress. 195 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: But people in the management positions are wanting people to 196 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 3: ask as well. They want to encourage, which is having 197 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,839 Speaker 3: those conversations. So for any prospective fathers out there who 198 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 3: are considering what that looks like for them, I highly 199 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 3: encourage them all to speak with their friends, speak with 200 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 3: their managers, look up our Dad's lines action plan, and 201 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 3: if they want to be involved in that, it'd be 202 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 3: great for them to sign up. But yeah, the world 203 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 3: is the world of opportunities out there. We're hoping to 204 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 3: improve conditions and the landscape and what it looks like 205 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 3: at the moment. But we need people to come along 206 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 3: for the ride. 207 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 2: David Monday, thanks for joining us on The Daily Ohs 208 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: this morning. 209 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 3: Thank you Sam. 210 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to today's episode of The Daily OS. 211 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 4: If you learned something from this episode and you're listening 212 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 4: on Apple Podcasts, please rate and review it. It takes 213 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 4: just a few seconds and really helps us get the 214 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 4: word out there. Just go to our show page and 215 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 4: tap on write a review button and there you go. 216 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 4: We'll be back again tomorrow, but until then, have a 217 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 4: great date already. And this is this is the Daily 218 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 4: This is the Daily Ohs. 219 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 2: Oh Now it makes sense.