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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: New data has been released showing the numbers of people

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Speaker 2: visiting the emergency department in the Northern Territory and the

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Speaker 2: length of time they're waiting is at a ten year high.

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Speaker 2: The data was released yesterday by the Australian Institute of

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Speaker 2: Health and Welfare and showed there were more than one

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Speaker 2: hundred and eighty one thousand presentations in the twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: two to twenty three financial year. It's up from one

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Speaker 2: hundred and seventy one thousand the previous year and we've

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Speaker 2: got the highest rate of emergency presentations in the country.

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Speaker 3: Now, the numbers probably aren't a.

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Speaker 2: Huge surprise to anyone who sat in the waiting room

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Speaker 2: at emergency here in the Northern Territory, our hospitals and

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Speaker 2: our staff for absolutely flat out. Now joining me on

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Speaker 2: the line to talk more about this is Kath Hatcher,

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Speaker 2: the Secretary of the Australian Nursing and Midway Free Federation

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Speaker 2: here in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 3: Good morning to you, Kath, Oh, Good morning Katie Kath.

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Speaker 2: This data it shows we've got the highest rate of

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Speaker 2: emergency presentations per capita in the country and the number

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Speaker 2: of people visiting the emergency department and the length of

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Speaker 2: time they're waitings at a ten year high, kath Are

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Speaker 2: you surprised by the numbers?

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Speaker 1: No, I'm not really Katie. Well yes and no. But

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Speaker 1: if you look at the rest of Australia, all the

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Speaker 1: other states have a three percent population of our first

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Speaker 1: nation's people, we have nearly thirty one percent occupying the

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Speaker 1: northern territory of our Aboriginal and Torrestrade Islander people. So

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Speaker 1: because they have the highest medical needs, they have the

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Speaker 1: highest incidences of rheumatic heart, renal disease, etc. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not surprised that we are at the top of that

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Speaker 1: number crunching.

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Speaker 2: And do you reckon that's the only reason, Cather? Are

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Speaker 2: there other contributing factors? I mean, I know you and

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Speaker 2: I have spoken on numerous occasions about code yellows and

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Speaker 2: you know not having enough beds.

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Speaker 3: I guess in a lot of cases.

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Speaker 1: Well, yes, that would be compacting it too. So when

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Speaker 1: they closed the super clinic out at Palmerston and opened

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Speaker 1: up the Palmiston Hospital, I think that was number one.

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Speaker 1: They shouldn't have done that, And now we know that

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Speaker 1: it's reopened again a month or so ago.

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Speaker 3: So what was that the just repeat that for me. Calinic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the superclinic was sort of shut down after

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Speaker 1: Palmerston Hospital was opened up and then everyone was going

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Speaker 1: to the emergency department at the Palmerston Hospital and the

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Speaker 1: superclinic was, you know, not having its opening extra hours

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Speaker 1: and evenings and weekends and things, so that that would

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Speaker 1: have had an impact of more present days to the

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Speaker 1: Wild Darwin Palmerston Hospital.

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Speaker 2: And so at this point in time, I mean, we

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Speaker 2: know that like some of these numbers with the data released,

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Speaker 2: it's showing that more than one hundred and eighty one

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Speaker 2: thousand presentations in twenty twenty two to twenty.

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Speaker 3: Three financial year.

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Speaker 2: That's up from one hundred and seventy one thousand the

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Speaker 2: previous year.

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Speaker 3: What do you think the reason for that is.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't like to speculate, but I would say that, well,

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Speaker 1: the presentations itself, I guess it's all to do with GPS,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps they're increasing of their fees and the gap

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Speaker 1: between Medicare and what the GPS are asking for that

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Speaker 1: could have an impact and people just can't find that

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Speaker 1: money to get a GP visit. They just can't pay

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Speaker 1: that gap fee, so they're going to the hospitals where

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Speaker 1: it's free. That's why there's been a big call for

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Speaker 1: the federal government to get some urgent care centers around Australia.

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Speaker 1: And now we've got two up and running in the territory,

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Speaker 1: one in Darwin, one in Alice Springs. The one in

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Speaker 1: Darwin is from the super Clinic again and it's been

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Speaker 1: up and running I believe about six or eight weeks now,

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Speaker 1: but they haven't seen an impact on the emergency departments

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Speaker 1: within Royal Darwin Palmerston yet. The executive director of Nursing

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Speaker 1: was telling me about three four weeks ago that they

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Speaker 1: haven't seen any benefit of that superclinic reopening and the

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Speaker 1: one in Alice Springs they have only just opened it,

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Speaker 1: so there hasn't been any statistics there of numbers going

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Speaker 1: through yet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it is those very early days. But

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Speaker 2: kas just on the GPS, I mean, would you support

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Speaker 2: co payments that would fix that gap fee issue? Is

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Speaker 2: that something that would make a difference. Oh?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, I think Medicare need to up the amount of

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Speaker 1: money that the GPS can get on rebate on seeing

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Speaker 1: patients in their surgeries, but also the number of presentations.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just needing to be educated and you know,

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Speaker 1: don't go to emergency apartment just for the little things,

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Speaker 1: even though the little things could grow into big things.

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Speaker 1: But you know, trying to get a GP appointment can

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Speaker 1: be very hard in some practices. Some people don't want

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Speaker 1: to try it because they know they're going to have

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Speaker 1: to pay that gap and they can't afford it. But

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Speaker 1: other things are too that we do have the higher

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Speaker 1: percentage of average Norn Torrestrada Island of people in the territory,

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Speaker 1: and you know their education is you know, go to

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Speaker 1: the hospital if they've got problems, even if it might

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Speaker 1: be very minute that GP can be able to treat.

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Speaker 2: So do you reckon I mean, does there need to

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Speaker 2: be some more work with our Aboriginal and Torres Strait

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Speaker 2: Islander health providers to make sure that there is that

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Speaker 2: educative approach where people do know that unless there's a

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Speaker 2: serious issue, you really don't need to be presenting to emergency.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps, but there's also facilities like Donela Dilber, and I

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Speaker 1: know that they're really under the pump as well. And

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Speaker 1: I do know that the first nations people do go

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Speaker 1: to Dineala Dilber and other health care Aboriginal healthcare centers

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Speaker 1: around the territory, but they are short staffed and with

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Speaker 1: doctors and nurses as well, and potentially they may not

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Speaker 1: have the capacity to see as many people per day

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Speaker 1: as per usual because of their shortness of staff. But

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Speaker 1: also that impacts from the other Department of Health hospitals

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Speaker 1: in the territory as well, with more presentations to the

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Speaker 1: emergency departments.

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Speaker 2: At the moment, what a nurse is saying to you

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Speaker 2: across the board, because obviously this data is all about

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Speaker 2: the emergency presentations, but what are our nurses saying to

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Speaker 2: you across the board?

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Speaker 3: I mean, have we got enough of them?

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Speaker 2: How are our staffing levels going, and how are things

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Speaker 2: going in our major hospitals.

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Speaker 1: There's lots of improvement that can happen right across the

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Speaker 1: territory and Australia as well. We need more doctors, we

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Speaker 1: need more nurses, we need to have more beds. But

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Speaker 1: in the saying that, we probably still got about sixty

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Speaker 1: to seventy patients who really need to be in an

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Speaker 1: age care or disability center and not in an acute

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Speaker 1: bed within world Ear and Palmerston Hospitals or even Alice

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Speaker 1: Springs hospitals either. So you know, if we know that

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Speaker 1: the federal government have given the Northern Territory government money

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Speaker 1: to build a sixty bed age care facility, but that's

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Speaker 1: still in the planning works, that hasn't had any soil

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Speaker 1: removal and diggings started yet, and that's going to be

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Speaker 1: three or four years away. So what's going to happen

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Speaker 1: in the meantime, We're still going to have an excess

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Speaker 1: of patients who are taking up an acute bed because

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Speaker 1: they can't cope, the family can't cope of looking after

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Speaker 1: them at home and they need to be rightly so

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Speaker 1: looked after, and that at the moment, that's an acute

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Speaker 1: bed within the hospital in the territory, So that's one thing.

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Speaker 1: And the waiting times would also impact in the emergency

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Speaker 1: department because there are no beds in the rest of

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Speaker 1: the hospital, so they're banked up in the emergency departments

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Speaker 1: wherever they can place them, and they're double bunking because

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Speaker 1: that's the way they need to at the moment to

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Speaker 1: be able to keep eyes on people, make sure that

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Speaker 1: they're okay and they're getting treated. Even though you know,

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Speaker 1: the conflict of interest and communication problem there and work,

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Speaker 1: health and safety and all of that. H real problem

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Speaker 1: with double bunking and instead of a nurse having four patients,

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Speaker 1: she potentially has eight patients to look after. And potentially

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Speaker 1: a lot of the staff could be agency nurses because

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Speaker 1: they are short staff and they're trying to get and

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Speaker 1: recruit to be permanent within the hospitals. But the nurses

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Speaker 1: are really wanting that work life balance, so therefore some

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Speaker 1: of them have gone across the agency and they might

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Speaker 1: do work one month have one month off, so to speak.

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Speaker 1: So you can't get that within the Department of Health

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Speaker 1: contract Kats.

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Speaker 2: You and I've spoken on a lot of occasions about

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Speaker 2: staffing levels and you've just touched on it then with

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Speaker 2: our nurses, like how are we looking at the moment

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Speaker 2: at the likes of Royal Dale and Hospital and our

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Speaker 2: Alice Springs Hospital across the board when it comes to

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Speaker 2: those those staffing levels, are we up to where we

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Speaker 2: need to be or are we behind?

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Speaker 1: We're way behind. And the latest statistics I got, we're

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Speaker 1: about six weeks ago and there's about four hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty full time equivalent shortage within right across the territory

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Speaker 1: and that's just not the hospitals that acute care rule,

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Speaker 1: and not everyone wants to work full time, so there's more,

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Speaker 1: you know, bodies needed to fulfill four hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: full time equivalents of staff, and that's just nursing and midwifree.

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Speaker 2: Four hundred and twenty full time equivalent That is massive, Cass.

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Speaker 1: And I would absolutely it's massive, And I would say

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Speaker 1: that number has got worse since then because you know

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Speaker 1: that coming into the wet season, people might have contracts

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Speaker 1: right up until the week before Christmas. They want to

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Speaker 1: go home into state or back overseas for Christmas to

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Speaker 1: be with their families, or they just don't like our

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Speaker 1: wet season and they want to go home for a

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Speaker 1: few months and they'll come back early next year and

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Speaker 1: take another contract up. So it is going to get worse.

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Speaker 2: Is that like the worst we've seen it in terms

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Speaker 2: of those staffing levels? Because you and I have spoken

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Speaker 2: again a lot about those staffing levels.

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Speaker 3: You've never given me a number that high. I don't think.

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Speaker 1: I think because the Department of Health haven't given me

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Speaker 1: the full quota before. I'm statistic. So it is shocking

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Speaker 1: and it is worse than perhaps two years ago in

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Speaker 1: the heart of COVID, and it's definitely worse. Before COVID,

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Speaker 1: most of the hospitals and areas were sitting on around

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Speaker 1: the five to fifteen percent vacancy rates, but now they're

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Speaker 1: sitting up anywhere from twenty five to eighty percent vacancy rates.

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Speaker 1: Majority of those vacancy rates are fulfilled with agency, but

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Speaker 1: not one hundred percent. They're probably still looking at most

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Speaker 1: areas around the five to twenty five percent vacancy even

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Speaker 1: though they've got permanent and agency staff in those areas.

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Speaker 2: KAS what is your message, you know, to the government

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Speaker 2: today when you look at those staffing levels, when you

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Speaker 2: look at the emergency wait times, when you look at

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Speaker 2: some of the issues that we're experiencing across the board

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Speaker 2: in the health in the in the health sector, I think.

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Speaker 1: We need to think outside the box. And some of

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Speaker 1: the areas are looking at fly in, flyout type agreements

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Speaker 1: with nurses. They might not fly in fly out per se,

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Speaker 1: but you know, work one month, have one month off,

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Speaker 1: that kind of scenario. Nurses really want their work life balance.

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Speaker 1: I think they that the manager right across the territory

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Speaker 1: need to basically give what the staff want and if

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Speaker 1: they don't give it to then they're going to leave.

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Speaker 1: So they're much better off accommodating what the staff needs are,

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Speaker 1: whether it's job sharing, two weeks on, two weeks off,

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Speaker 1: kind of working relationship, anything like that to keep the staff,

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Speaker 1: because if they don't accommodate, and they said no, we

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Speaker 1: can't accommodate that, then they will leave. They will go

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Speaker 1: elsewhere within the territory or into state to get what

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Speaker 1: they want. And it's not just the territory, it's like this,

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Speaker 1: it's the whole of Australia. But because we're a smaller

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Speaker 1: territory on a vast land and it's really hard to

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Speaker 1: get services and access the services we really need to know,

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Speaker 1: bend down the knee, so to speak, and give the

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Speaker 1: nurses and midwives what they want.

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Speaker 2: Well, Kath Hatcher, I always appreciate your time, and I

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Speaker 2: know that our nurses and midwives well they do an

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Speaker 2: absolutely phenomenal job, as all of our healthcare workers do.

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Speaker 2: But we appreciate the work that they do and we

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Speaker 2: appreciate your time today.

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Speaker 1: You're very welcome, Katie, anytime.

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Speaker 3: Thank you