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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 2: once answers, now.

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Speaker 1: Homeschooling really changes your life. Yesterday we had four children

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Speaker 1: in the house. Four children in the house on a

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Speaker 1: school day. Our adult child was at home, our year

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Speaker 1: eleven slash year twelve child was unwell, and we had

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Speaker 1: our two homeschoolers. It's just such a bizarre situation to

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Speaker 1: be in. My name's doctor Justin Colson. I'm here with

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Speaker 1: my wife, missus Happy Families, Kylie, and it's still kind

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Speaker 1: of doing my head and in some ways that Kylie

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Speaker 1: and I are doing this really countercultural thing where we're

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Speaker 1: homeschooling our two youngest children. I know that not everybody

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Speaker 1: is interested in homeschool personally, I find it fascinating whether

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Speaker 1: we were doing it or not. I just find these

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Speaker 1: conversations really, really well curious. Is the understatement of all understatements.

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Speaker 1: We're a year into our ernie right now as homeschool

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Speaker 1: parents for these two kids, and a couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: ago on the Happy Families Podcast, I interviewed the CEO

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Speaker 1: of one of Australia's biggest homeschool curriculum providers. His name

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Speaker 1: was Brett, and when we posted on Facebook, We've got

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Speaker 1: more of a response to our podcast mention that day

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Speaker 1: than anything we usually do with the podcast. Podcast posts

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Speaker 1: normally don't get a massive response. This one got a

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Speaker 1: really big response. So today, Kylie, you and I are

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Speaker 1: going to after that very long intro, spent some time

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Speaker 1: talking about what it's been like to be a homeschool

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Speaker 1: family for the last twelve months. Lots to talk about.

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Speaker 1: I thought we would start with the positives and then

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Speaker 1: go into the negatives, but also talk about what sort

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Speaker 1: of comments and feedback we received on Facebook when I

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Speaker 1: brought it up. So let's start with what you would

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Speaker 1: imagine to be the biggest boon to being homeschool parents.

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Speaker 2: For me, it's literally been watching our kids become more

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Speaker 2: regulated in their emotions, to be more grounded, and there's

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Speaker 2: a prevailing calm, not all the time, definitely not all

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Speaker 2: the time, but compared to what we were experiencing during

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Speaker 2: school days. For the most part, I've got a ten

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Speaker 2: year old who is just really content to do her

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Speaker 2: own little thing, and she'll spend hours engaged in whatever

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Speaker 2: the task is that she's happily engaged in. But also

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Speaker 2: it means we're having more meaningful conversations more often.

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Speaker 1: It's about time, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: It really is. I love the conversations I get to

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Speaker 2: have with her, and I love that it's allowed me

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Speaker 2: in some ways to slow down that time when we're together.

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Speaker 1: Just jumping in on this as well. The children are

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Speaker 1: better regulated, There's no doubt about it. There's something beautiful

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Speaker 1: and calming about being together and not having the pressure

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Speaker 1: of having to race out the door and so many

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Speaker 1: things to worry about all the time. When I think

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Speaker 1: about our year nine daughter, unite it is year nine, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: year nine daughter. When I think about her and her experience,

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Speaker 1: what I'm loving is that her homeschool. I mean, she's

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Speaker 1: following the curriculum reasonably well, but it's primarily her when

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Speaker 1: not particularly involved in this, and she's just waking up

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Speaker 1: every day and doing the work. But now that she's

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Speaker 1: almost fifteen. A few months ago and she's fifteen, and

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Speaker 1: she's starting to have conversations with me like, hey, Dad,

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Speaker 1: I could go and get a job and I could

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Speaker 1: work during the day, Like I could work two or

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Speaker 1: three days a week and earn money and start to

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Speaker 1: save up for a house and a car, and I

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Speaker 1: could still do all of the work that the curriculum

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Speaker 1: requires in a couple of days. Like, there's not that

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Speaker 1: much work that I've got to do. And she's even

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Speaker 1: talking about maybe doing the curriculum but also going to

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Speaker 1: tafe and doing a course that she's interested in. It

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Speaker 1: feels like it's expansive. It feels like there's flexibility. Oh

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Speaker 1: and there's this thing that she loves to do down

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Speaker 1: near her grandparents place in New South Wales and it

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Speaker 1: involves volunteering and involves a lot of time. And she's

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Speaker 1: talking about, well, what about if I get a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks ahead, could I go and spend a week

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Speaker 1: at Nana Pops And I can go and spend time

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Speaker 1: with horses, and I can go and spend time in

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Speaker 1: the outdoors, and I can go and do all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: And it's not even during the school holiday, so I

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Speaker 1: get to do all of it and be really involved.

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Speaker 1: And I look at this and think this is pretty wild,

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Speaker 1: Like this is really, really really cool.

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Speaker 2: I like that word that you used, expansive, because that's

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Speaker 2: what I am am witnessing the fact that they're no

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Speaker 2: longer stuck in this box that says from nine to three.

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Speaker 2: This is what you have to do, right, and you

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Speaker 2: have to do it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: All of a sudden, it's just opened their possibilities up

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Speaker 2: in such amazing ways. And what I'm seeing is that

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Speaker 2: we're able to tailor directly to their strengths, to their hopes, desire, dreams,

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Speaker 2: all of it, and provide them with those opportunities that

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Speaker 2: just fill their souls with so much joy.

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Speaker 1: Now it's not all rainbows and unicorns. No it's not,

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Speaker 1: and we do need to talk about the negatives. But

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Speaker 1: two things that I want to bring up before we

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Speaker 1: move into the downsides are the challenges of homeschooling. The

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Speaker 1: first is the feedback that came through on the Facebook

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Speaker 1: page when that podcast went out. It was universally positive.

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Speaker 1: There was literally not a single negative comment about homeschooling there.

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Speaker 1: And again, this is the thing about homeschooling. I find

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Speaker 1: it just fascinating and once people start doing it, recognizing

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Speaker 1: that there are some challenges, very well, very few people.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the stats are, but in my

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Speaker 1: conversations my ANEC data get what I did there anecdotal

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Speaker 1: LYE and data, I put it together anecdata Lee anecdotay, okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was really I get it. I like

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Speaker 1: that one, Thank you so much. My anec data would

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Speaker 1: suggest that people who start it really really do like it.

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Speaker 1: They like it a lot. The feedback from people online,

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Speaker 1: people just talked about the positive impact that it had

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Speaker 1: on the kids, as you've just done. They highlighted the

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Speaker 1: positive effects on their children's well being, on their learning,

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Speaker 1: on their family relationships, and how important it was to

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Speaker 1: get them out of the school environment because so many

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Speaker 1: of these kids are struggling with either neurodivergent challenges or bullying,

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Speaker 1: which goes back to what Brett had to say about

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Speaker 1: why so many people are signing up. His data definitely

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Speaker 1: indicates that the second thing that people highlighted the flexibility

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Speaker 1: and the freedom homeschooling allows for. As you've already said,

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Speaker 1: this targeted individualistic, personalized learning based on the child's interests

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Speaker 1: and what the child's able to keep up with. There

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Speaker 1: was one mum who has a child who has fairly

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Speaker 1: significant intellectual difficulties, and so she's using homeschooling to teach

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Speaker 1: him all of these life skills, and she does what

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Speaker 1: she can do with the curriculum but she's also recognizing

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Speaker 1: that he's not going to have an academic life, so therefore,

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Speaker 1: so long as he can get through the curriculum, it's

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Speaker 1: the life skills that matter most for him. And I

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Speaker 1: just love the way that she said that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and here's the challenge that child goes into the

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Speaker 2: school system. There is no conversations about life skills. He's

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Speaker 2: got to know.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's a curriculum to follow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he has to follow that curriculum, and there isn't

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Speaker 2: enough capacity to tailor that learning for him. And so

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Speaker 2: that's that's the magic I think of homeschooling.

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Speaker 1: Everybody acknowledged every single well men, everybody, but almost every

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Speaker 1: single person highlighted that there are some challenges and adjustments.

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Speaker 1: It requires a whole lot of commitment, a lot of adaptation.

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Speaker 1: And most people who commented on how long it takes

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Speaker 1: too the word d school is used to get out

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Speaker 1: of that use of that nine to three framework. Pretty

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Speaker 1: much everyone said takes six months, twelve months, maybe even more.

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Speaker 1: And to let go of that as a parent, as

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Speaker 1: a parent, as we've gone through that, we did for

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Speaker 1: what like six months, and I was just thinking the

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Speaker 1: whole way through, we are ruining our children, like what

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Speaker 1: are we doing. We've got to get them. They've got

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Speaker 1: to be doing something.

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Speaker 3: They've got to be productive, they've got to be learning,

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Speaker 3: they've got to be in like, here's a massive kids,

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Speaker 3: just read the textbook and do something. And yet once

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Speaker 3: we got through that six months or so, it's just

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Speaker 3: been it's been so good.

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Speaker 2: I think I think that families that give homeschooling a

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Speaker 2: go and kind of really struggle with it. It's the

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Speaker 2: acknowledgment that so often and I would be in that boat.

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Speaker 2: You go in with an expectation that's really unrealistic of

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Speaker 2: what it's going to look like for starters, because the

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Speaker 2: families that are doing it well, they've been doing it

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Speaker 2: well for a long time. Usually Yeah, they've worked it out.

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Speaker 2: And I'm finding that like each term, I'm shifting and

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Speaker 2: we're growing together in this process, and what it looked

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Speaker 2: like at the beginning, it definitely does not look like

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Speaker 2: that now. And the importance that I placed on certain

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Speaker 2: things are no longer important, and so learning to kind

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Speaker 2: of work together with your child is really really important.

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Speaker 2: But I think letting go of the expectation of what

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Speaker 2: it's going to look like and recognizing that it will

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Speaker 2: not look like some and so down the road who's

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Speaker 2: doing it, been doing it for five years and just

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Speaker 2: nailing it because they're nailing it because they've worked out

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Speaker 2: what works for their kids. That's what is so beautiful

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Speaker 2: about this. It's about your kids, not someone else's.

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Speaker 1: Before we talk about the negatives, the last couple of

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Speaker 1: quick comments that came through that are worthy of highlighting.

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Speaker 1: The first one related to financial constraints. It was a

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Speaker 1: comment from Sharon who basically said she's had to reduce

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Speaker 1: her work hours really significantly and that's a really big

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Speaker 1: challenge around the dollars. I'm going to bring that up

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Speaker 1: again a little bit later. And then a couple of

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Speaker 1: people just said the great thing is now homeschooling isn't

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Speaker 1: hindering further education. It can even be beneficial. There's so

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Speaker 1: many opportunities for the kids once they've finished to go

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Speaker 1: to university, if an academic expectation exists, or if they've

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Speaker 1: got those desires. They're the positives, both our experience and

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Speaker 1: the positives based on what came through Facebook. Up next,

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Speaker 1: we'll have a look at the negatives and also some

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Speaker 1: observations that you've made as you've spent a whole of

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Speaker 1: time in the last few weeks with a big bunch

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Speaker 1: of homeschool months. Okay, Kylie, let's talk about the negatives.

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Speaker 1: What is hard about homeschooling, given that there are so

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Speaker 1: many positives and things that we've enjoyed.

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Speaker 2: Probably my list is maybe three long.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: The first one I think is as a parent, this

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Speaker 2: is not even the kids, as a parent, letting go

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Speaker 2: of perceived ideas around what education looks like. For the

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Speaker 2: majority of us, we have only ever had standardized education,

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Speaker 2: and education.

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Speaker 1: Looks like a teacher teaching a curriculum at the front

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Speaker 1: of the room, or if parent's going to do it

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Speaker 1: at school at home, which is which is totally different

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Speaker 1: to homeschool.

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Speaker 2: That's right, And I still if I'm if I'm being

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Speaker 2: completely transparent, we are still probably doing a school at

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Speaker 2: home experience.

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Speaker 1: But and this is one of my this is both

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Speaker 1: the negative and a positive. The school at home experience

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Speaker 1: only takes one and a half to two hours a day,

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Speaker 1: one per one hundred. But that's also a problem because

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Speaker 1: then you've got to fill in the rest of the

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Speaker 1: day and you're like, can you kids just find something

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Speaker 1: else to do oh, hang on, no, not really. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you need you need a little bit more parent engagement,

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Speaker 1: don't you.

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Speaker 2: Depending on the age of your kids, depending on how

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Speaker 2: many children you have at home, will ultimately, I think,

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Speaker 2: dictate how much time is required of you as the parent,

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Speaker 2: even just being present, whether you're engaged in specific learning

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Speaker 2: or not. The first thing is definitely letting go of

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Speaker 2: your expectations of what education looks like. I'm still there.

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Speaker 2: I'm still kind of working my way through that. The

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Speaker 2: number two thing is recognizing that this is a lifestyle choice.

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Speaker 2: This is hard if you have a full life and

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Speaker 2: then you add homeschooling to it, as we have done.

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Speaker 2: Some days are just downright hard because I have multiple

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Speaker 2: things that need to be achieved in any given day.

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Speaker 2: But I have a ten year old who actually needs

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Speaker 2: my presence and.

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Speaker 1: A fourteen year old who wants a mom in a

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Speaker 1: bit of guidance as well.

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Speaker 2: And I think throughout this year, the common thread with

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Speaker 2: the other children is like, hey, Mom, I'm here, can

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Speaker 2: you see me. They all are just desperate to have

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Speaker 2: that time because I think they're recognizing and seeing that

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Speaker 2: Miss ten is getting a lot of my time, and

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Speaker 2: that kind of is highlighting what they're missing out on.

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Speaker 1: What's the third thing.

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Speaker 2: It's a massive one and as I talk to other parents,

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Speaker 2: it is across the board. Can be one of the

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Speaker 2: hardest things to navigate is socializing. So both my children,

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Speaker 2: both our children, just saying both our children, our appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Have beautiful friends who go to school, and so during

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Speaker 2: the school day when they have the capacity to connect,

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Speaker 2: they want to connect with their friends, but their friends

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Speaker 2: all go to school, and just recently we've really hit

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Speaker 2: a wall with that and the recognition that this is

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Speaker 2: probably the hardest thing we're coping with right now. So

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Speaker 2: what about you. Is there anything that you would say

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Speaker 2: that I that I haven't added.

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Speaker 1: So my positives are number one with the positive benefits

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Speaker 1: just overwhelming, better regulation, less pressure. I pretty much had

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Speaker 1: the same list as you. We did not coordinate this.

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Speaker 1: My negatives list is I love that they get through

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Speaker 1: I know this is a negative, right they get through

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Speaker 1: the curriculum so far, so they've got all day to

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Speaker 1: do what they want. But that's also a really big

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Speaker 1: challenge as well. So you're out there standing a dining

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Speaker 1: table and dining chairs with the kids to get that

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Speaker 1: happening and I'm trying to get them to some yard

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Speaker 1: work or get our older kids to walk down to

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Speaker 1: the beach and spend some time in the outdoors. But

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a bit of a grind sometimes to

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Speaker 1: get the kids active. And that's why I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: that our older daughter wants to go and get that job.

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Speaker 1: So that's both a positive and negative. There's a light

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Speaker 1: side and a dark side of that one. I said,

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Speaker 1: it costs a lot, Like you've got to spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of money on all the activities for the kids

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Speaker 1: because you want them to be doing stuff that matters.

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Speaker 2: But I think when you average it all out, at

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Speaker 2: least with our school experience, it's costing you a whole heapless.

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Speaker 1: Compared to school fees. Yeah, I mean, and apart from that,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to put your kids in extracurricular activities,

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Speaker 1: you're probably going to pay for things like music lessons

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Speaker 1: or art or a maths tudor or whatever anyway, So

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Speaker 1: I guess in some ways it's not dearer, but it

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Speaker 1: still feels like we're forking out for a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff which we would probably be doing anyway. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've got your swimming on whatever else. And the last

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Speaker 1: thing that I would highlight is the social issue. But

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Speaker 1: the kids don't have the daily contact with friends that

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Speaker 1: they get with school, but.

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Speaker 2: They don't have the shared experiences. And that's actually what

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Speaker 2: it comes down to, right, Yeah, So they catch up

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Speaker 2: with their school friends, but their school friends want to

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Speaker 2: talk about all of the things that are happening at

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Speaker 2: school with their other friends that our children are not experiencing.

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Speaker 2: And so the connection, you know, at this stage, it's

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Speaker 2: so much about shared experiences, right, And they feel like

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Speaker 2: they're missing out, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Because they're not all at school. They're all living their

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Speaker 1: own lives. And then they get together for the social

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Speaker 1: catch up that's been arranged every Wednesday afternoon or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 2: That's right, And so while the kids have no desire

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Speaker 2: to be at school, they love being at home and

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Speaker 2: they recognize the goodness of that experience. There's just this

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Speaker 2: pool because they want their friends.

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Speaker 1: On the flip side of that one though, even though

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Speaker 1: I've said that they're the negatives on the flip side.

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Speaker 1: On bright side, here, data suggests that more kids are

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Speaker 1: homeschooling than ever, in part because of bullying. And I'd

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Speaker 1: rather have my kids feel the way our kids are

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Speaker 1: feeling than have them at school and experiencing horrible bullying

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Speaker 1: rubbish that goes on. You've been spending a lot of

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Speaker 1: time talking to homeschool mums as well. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: throw their two sense worth in, but time has beaten

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Speaker 1: us today. This is the podcast for the time pop

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Speaker 1: parent who just wants answers now, and we are out

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Speaker 1: of time, so maybe we can do that again down

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Speaker 1: the track. We just wanted to give you a homeschool update.

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Speaker 1: We wanted to give you a sense of what it's

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Speaker 1: like in the trenches as we're actually doing that with

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Speaker 1: two kids grade four and grade nine, coming to a

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Speaker 1: conclusion over the next couple of weeks. And overwhelmingly, we're

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Speaker 1: so so weird to say it, because it is so countercultural,

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Speaker 1: and it's such a weird thing for a guy who's

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Speaker 1: a parenting expert whos supposed to be telling everyone how

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Speaker 1: to work within the system, so that we're doing it,

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Speaker 1: but it's been overwhelmingly something that we are so glad

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Speaker 1: that we've done for our kids. The Happy Family's podcast

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Speaker 1: is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. If you

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Speaker 1: would like more information about the stuff we talk about

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Speaker 1: on the pod and how to make you family happy out.

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Speaker 1: Whether they're at school or homeschooling, it doesn't really matter.

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Speaker 1: You can visit us at happy families dot com dot

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Speaker 1: au or on our social pages. Dr Justin Pilson's Happy

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Speaker 1: Families