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Speaker 1: As we know, yesterday the government announced that there's going

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Speaker 1: to be an immediate review of bail laws for offenses

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Speaker 1: involving a weapon, a review of penalties for people carrying weapons.

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Speaker 1: There's also going to be transit safety officers, crowd controllers,

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Speaker 1: security guards equipped with capsicum spray, and there is also

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Speaker 1: going to be a workplace safety review, increased police presence

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Speaker 1: and funding for crowd controllers until June. There's a number

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Speaker 1: of measures that the government announced yesterday. And joining me

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Speaker 1: on the show to talk a little bit more about

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Speaker 1: how this is going to work from a policing perspective

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Speaker 1: is the Northern Territory Police Commissioner Jamie Chalker. Good morning

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Speaker 1: to your commissioner. Now, firstly, am I able to just

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Speaker 1: ask you quickly about the situation which occurred overnight. We

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Speaker 1: know that a man's been arrested after allegedly threatening staff

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Speaker 1: at Darwin's Austin Lane. The police were called there to

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Speaker 1: report to a man armed with an offensive weapon at

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Speaker 1: the loading bay at about seven pm. As I understand it, yeah.

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Speaker 2: We understand that this stage to the restaurant and grabbed

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Speaker 2: a knife I understand it was a butter knife and

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Speaker 2: started threatening some patrons and his behavior was clearly apparent. Thankfully,

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Speaker 2: member of the public gave us a call and followed

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Speaker 2: his pathway upon leaving that premises, and police ultimately guided

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Speaker 2: there by obviously the awareness of that patron but also

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Speaker 2: our CCTV, and took that person into our custody. And

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Speaker 2: we think he went into another licensed premises momentarily. And

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Speaker 2: again we'll do a full investigation as to exactly where

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Speaker 2: he went in the conduct that was undertaken.

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Speaker 1: And are we expecting charges to be laid today?

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Speaker 2: I would anticipate that, of course, we've got allowed the

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Speaker 2: investigators to undertake their behavior. Certainly, the prime and facie

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Speaker 2: evidence that we have been briefed on at the moment

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Speaker 2: would indicate the charge will likely be preferred.

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Speaker 1: Now, Commissioner, a big announcement obviously made yesterday by the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Government. Your Deputy Michael Murphy was there. Some

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Speaker 1: questions have been asked as to why you weren't at

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Speaker 1: that press conference yesterday. My understanding is that you're actually away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. The Northern Territory Government signed a strategic

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Speaker 2: partnership agreement with the Team or les Day government about

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Speaker 2: six or seven weeks ago, and to key part of

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Speaker 2: that was around emergency management. They've had significant floods through

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Speaker 2: Dilly as recently as twenty twenty one, in April is

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Speaker 2: the more prominent month, so they were very keen for

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Speaker 2: me to get over there and meet with them. So

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Speaker 2: before out early hours of Monday morning, Offeny, working with

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Speaker 2: the Civil Protection Authority and their National Police Force and

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Speaker 2: various government representatives met with the Prime Minister to start

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Speaker 2: building some of the processes around how we do emergency management.

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Speaker 2: And obviously the flood event calquering Indogarague more recently was

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Speaker 2: a very prominent example of how we do our business.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner, we know that then on late on Sunday night

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Speaker 1: or early Monday morning, we started to learn of the

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Speaker 1: terrible situation which had unfolded with the death of Declan Labat.

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Speaker 1: What was your reaction upon learning what had gone on?

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Speaker 2: So the clarity I got was more so once I

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Speaker 2: was in team or I'd certainly ensured that both of

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Speaker 2: our Deputy Commissioners were attuned to understanding executly the full

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Speaker 2: circumstance of the event and allowing the investigation to start

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Speaker 2: giving us some clarity on exactly what's occurred. We now

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Speaker 2: know that an offender has been arrested and placed before

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Speaker 2: the court, but that person also had some prior history

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Speaker 2: as it also relates to being on bail. So that's

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Speaker 2: the body work that started to come to the fore.

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Speaker 2: So I was in touch with the team throughout the

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Speaker 2: time on the ground that as these conversations were happening

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Speaker 2: about some of the thoughts we think should come to

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Speaker 2: the fall to enhance our abi leader to do our duties.

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Speaker 2: These issues like bail are some of the more prominent ones.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about those. So what do you think does

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Speaker 1: need to come to the fore here? Because there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of discussion about edged weapons. I mean, have

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Speaker 1: we got a situation right now where the presumption of

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Speaker 1: bail is or rather than against somebody who has committed

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Speaker 1: a crime with an edged weapon.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that's the opportunity we've got to explore.

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Speaker 2: We certainly have long held views around the propensity for

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Speaker 2: violence and that we should be focusing on the individual

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Speaker 2: as to their behaviors and where they've demonstrated the use

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Speaker 2: and propensity for violence in the past, but particularly using

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Speaker 2: weapons and edge weapons, that's something we think there can

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Speaker 2: be some potential enhancement on how we ensure that that

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Speaker 2: person's liberty upon offending is significantly reduced to triumph of

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Speaker 2: any further continuation of offending. I think the bigger issue

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Speaker 2: that we've been contending for a long period of time,

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Speaker 2: and this has been a long enduring thing, is many

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Speaker 2: of the deaths that occur in the Northern Territory unfortunate

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Speaker 2: result of edge weapons, and we see that through family

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Speaker 2: domestic violence related matters. But we also have certainly seen

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Speaker 2: a prominence of the open carriage of edge weapons and

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Speaker 2: particularly machetes, and that's something that clearly is starting to escalate,

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Speaker 2: not only within the territory but in other jurisdiction. So

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Speaker 2: it's something we really think we need to seize opportunity

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Speaker 2: to try and get some reform in that space.

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Speaker 1: So are we seeing an increase in the number of

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Speaker 1: people who are carrying edged weapons around in the territory,

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Speaker 1: because I mean, we've seen vision on nine Yews last all.

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Speaker 1: It was earlier this week, but from an incident last

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Speaker 1: week where there was allegedly teenagers who'd entered a corner

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Speaker 1: store again armed with a knife.

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Speaker 2: We're certainly hearing reports of that and that's been contributing

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Speaker 2: clearly into our John Evanshi Services Communications Center demand environment.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's some points in time on Monday and

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Speaker 2: Tuesday evening, for example, that we've been an hour, we

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Speaker 2: will receive over one hundred calls, So we're getting many

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Speaker 2: of these reports. There does appear to be left in

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Speaker 2: the open presentation of these edge weapons in offending, and

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Speaker 2: that certainly has appeared to have crept into some of

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Speaker 2: the youth offending that's going on as well. Now we

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Speaker 2: know that that has a broad impact not only on

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Speaker 2: the victim, but that community sense of fear and apprehension.

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Speaker 2: So that's another key part that we want to start

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Speaker 2: exploring further around search powers and starting to look at

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Speaker 2: how we address what is a legitimate purpose to be

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Speaker 2: going in public with an edge weapon.

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Speaker 1: Well, surely there should be no legitimate purpose. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know that some people might go fishing and things

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Speaker 1: like that where they've got where they have got a

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Speaker 1: fillating knife, but there should be no reason why walking

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Speaker 1: into a shop or into any sort of anywhere with

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Speaker 1: an edged weapon.

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Speaker 2: We agree wholeheartedly, and there are offense provisions in there,

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Speaker 2: but of course part of what we would try and

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Speaker 2: understand is what's the community sentiment around an early intervention

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Speaker 2: where police may have information that a person's been certainly

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Speaker 2: involved previously and offending has a propensity for violence, what's

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Speaker 2: their ability to stop and search that person specifically to

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Speaker 2: ensure that they are not carrying it an edge weapon

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Speaker 2: concealed that they then can openly use publicly. But then,

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Speaker 2: of course the broader issuers was highlighting the event last

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Speaker 2: night walking into a restaurant for Siddy and they're able

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Speaker 2: to grab access to an edge weapon is clearly something

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Speaker 2: we would want to work with the industry to try

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Speaker 2: and reduce the likelihood and opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Commissioner. The increased police presence was the other factor

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Speaker 1: and part of this plan that was announced yesterday overt

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Speaker 1: and covert responses with police when it comes to some

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Speaker 1: of the incidents, I'm assuming that we've seen around licensed

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Speaker 1: venues and bottle shops. Where are the police coming from.

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Speaker 2: We'll be pulling them from a rafter of areas. So

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Speaker 2: we've got our assistant commissioners currently reviewing their available resource

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Speaker 2: and we're going to make some tough decisions as to

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Speaker 2: what areas we may not be able to maintain pull

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Speaker 2: some business connuity. But again, all that we do tends

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Speaker 2: to lean towards the prioritization of the deployment of our resources.

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Speaker 2: It's a sad reality that family domestic violence still continues

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Speaker 2: to be the most prevalent call demand for us, and

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Speaker 2: whenever there's a risk of violence, that's clearly always going

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Speaker 2: to be a prioritization for us. But we are looking

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Speaker 2: across the board at the agency at the moment to

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Speaker 2: see where we can provide an initial surge to try

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Speaker 2: and certainly take some significant anks down of the community.

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Speaker 1: What areas, What areas are you going to be taking

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Speaker 1: people police officers from, because you know, it seems as

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Speaker 1: though our police are absolutely under the pump in every area.

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Speaker 2: There's a little doubt that our demand environment is not

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Speaker 2: putting as understrained. And as I say, when you get

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Speaker 2: one hundred phone calls in an hour on a Monday

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Speaker 2: or Tuesday evening, trying to be resourced to that full

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Speaker 2: capacity is always going to be a challenge that we

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Speaker 2: can't necessarily provide that response to hence the reason we

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Speaker 2: have to default to a prioritization. But we'll be looking

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Speaker 2: at all of the areas where we currently have operational

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Speaker 2: uniform stuff. They may be tasked on different projects at

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Speaker 2: the moment. For example, we'll be looking at being able

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Speaker 2: to pause some of those things and divert them back

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Speaker 2: out into the field, just so we can get a

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Speaker 2: high level of public reassurance out there in the work

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Speaker 2: that we do well.

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Speaker 1: And look, I understand that it is a prioritization, but

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Speaker 1: I know that you know from hearing you say that

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Speaker 1: there's going to be a lot of people in the

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Speaker 1: community listening thinking, well, hang on a sec. You know,

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Speaker 1: if that means that they're not able to come out

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Speaker 1: if my house is broken into, that's frightening as well.

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Speaker 2: Well. Again, we tend to be able to respond to

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Speaker 2: all matters. It's always going to be a based factor

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Speaker 2: on it the time at framing, which wouldn't get there

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Speaker 2: if someone WHI returns home, for example, and the place

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Speaker 2: has been unhawfully entered, but there's no one remaining on

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Speaker 2: premises and their offenders within the immediate vicinity, that wouldn't

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Speaker 2: necessarily be as high priority as a report that there's

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Speaker 2: a male physically harming a female in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the street somewhere. So it's about that balance but of

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Speaker 2: course the reporting is something we always encourage and when

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Speaker 2: we have the availability to respond, we do so.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner, we have had a lot of people get in

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Speaker 1: contact with us, you know, saying things like you know,

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Speaker 1: in Driver there was somebody walking down the street with

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Speaker 1: the machete. They called police, there was no response. They've

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Speaker 1: had their home broken into, called police, they didn't hear

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Speaker 1: back for several hours. I understand that there's that prioritization,

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Speaker 1: but what would you say to those in the community

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Speaker 1: that feelers are there's not enough police?

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Speaker 2: Certainly keep calling. I mean the demand environment is what

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Speaker 2: helps us inform our government as it relates to our needs.

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Speaker 2: It's not lost on anybody. I'm sure that across other

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Speaker 2: jurisdictions in Australia there's been significant police resourcing increasing because

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Speaker 2: the demands on policing, and that's well covered in national

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Speaker 2: media and the attention that gathers. We're still clearly working

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Speaker 2: with the Australians Australian government to understand the funding increase

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Speaker 2: and the number of police we'll be able to employer. Additionally,

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Speaker 2: in our springs, that remains a very key focal point

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Speaker 2: for us, as it does in Darwin but we're trying

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Speaker 2: to maximize the use of our vailable resources and will

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Speaker 2: sacrifice some of the activities that we're currently doing to

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Speaker 2: even enhance that further.

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Speaker 1: Now, I know that you are very pressed for time,

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Speaker 1: so I just want to power through a few things.

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Speaker 1: Are you concerned that there could be vigilante behavior because

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Speaker 1: people feelers are there's not enough police.

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Speaker 2: I think the family have really given some clear messaging

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Speaker 2: about how they feel in this space, completely and utterly

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Speaker 2: support on our heart's going out to them on the

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Speaker 2: loss of their loved one. Police are the best suited

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Speaker 2: to be able to go out and they do these things.

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Speaker 2: The best thing that the public and community can alsoately

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Speaker 2: do for us is continue to be our eyes and

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Speaker 2: ears and report those things to us, and that way

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Speaker 2: we can ensure as many people as possible remain safe.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner, right now, we had a situation a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks ago where Murray small Page, one of your deputies,

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Speaker 1: had said that we need an additional three hundred police

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Speaker 1: within the force. Michael Murphy, your other deputy, was yesterday

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Speaker 1: with the Chief Minister at that press conference saying we've

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Speaker 1: got enough police. Do we need more police in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory right now.

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Speaker 2: The body of work that definitely small Page was referring

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Speaker 2: to is the work we're doing in our remote Aboriginal

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Speaker 2: investment space and highlighting the influence that the mobility and

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Speaker 2: policing services we have in remote communities and the impact

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Speaker 2: that has on major centers needs a more fulsome approach

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Speaker 2: to ensure that we can put all of our support

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Speaker 2: in there the assist in closing the gap and assuring

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Speaker 2: that work environments such as hospital staff all employees, particularly

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Speaker 2: in our springs, know that that place is safe to

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Speaker 2: do so. We're very limited in our current capacity to

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Speaker 2: be able to get proactive to try and do a

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Speaker 2: lot more in the crime prevention in space. Equally, Deputy

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Speaker 2: Murphy was speaking to the fact that we currently have

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Speaker 2: got more police than we've ever had. We've continued to

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Speaker 2: grab the bull by the horns and improve the amount

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Speaker 2: of policing services that we have here because of the

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Speaker 2: demand environment has continued to increase, and we are actually

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Speaker 2: the envy of the rest of the jurisdictions in the

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Speaker 2: country because we continue to manage to recruit above attrition.

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Speaker 2: The work of our people is nothing short of exceptional.

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Speaker 2: Coatie they are turning up each and every day across

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Speaker 2: the whole of the Northern Territory dealing with a really

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Speaker 2: challenging environment, and they can hold their heads up very

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Speaker 2: high as to the efforts they're undertaking the service of

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Speaker 2: this community.

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Speaker 1: Well, to be bluntly honest with you, I think that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people would say, you know, they feel

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Speaker 1: as though the police are doing an incredible job, but

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Speaker 1: they don't actually feel like the policy settings are right

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Speaker 1: when it comes to some of the things that the

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Speaker 1: government's announcing. Now, I'm not expecting you to get into

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Speaker 1: a political debate with me about that, but what do

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Speaker 1: you say to the public who feel as though, you know,

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Speaker 1: they actually do want there to be more funding from

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory government to the police so that you

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Speaker 1: guys can continue to do the job that you're doing,

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Speaker 1: but have more officers to do it.

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Speaker 2: Well, We of course deeply appreciate the support we get.

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Speaker 2: Our officers see that and hear it, and we certainly

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Speaker 2: know that there's plenty of support for the work that

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Speaker 2: we do, and that's across the full range of our

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Speaker 2: try service and the incredible work that Saint John's Ambulance

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Speaker 2: and others do. The great thing I think, unfortunately again

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Speaker 2: out of a disaster and a tragedy drives is the

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Speaker 2: need for reform and change, and we will be certainly

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Speaker 2: front and center of the community, can be very reashored

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Speaker 2: of that in providing that ongoing guidance and advice for

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Speaker 2: government to ensure that changes are real, tangible and there

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Speaker 2: to make a difference to improve the safety for all territories.

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Speaker 1: And so for everybody listening this morning, what is your

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Speaker 1: message is you know that the changes that were announced

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Speaker 1: yesterday truly are going to make a difference, because you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that a lot of people right now feel

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Speaker 1: as though there is a sense of lawlessness in the

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Speaker 1: fact that there are some out there that are just

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Speaker 1: continuing to do the wrong thing.

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Speaker 2: Look, the preventive for violence is something that's very clearly

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Speaker 2: concerning and alarming to the community, and all of us

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Speaker 2: want to ensure that people can go about their day

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Speaker 2: to day activities, be it at work or in their

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Speaker 2: private lives, and do so safety. The commitment I can

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Speaker 2: make is that we will be very active at the table.

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Speaker 2: I'm already driving that with meetings we've had so far

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Speaker 2: with other agencies to ensure that this reform truly makes

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Speaker 2: a difference. It's in our interests, and our interests are

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Speaker 2: always driven to try and improve the environment for our community.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner, there are rumors rife this morning that you are

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Speaker 1: resigning from your role. Is that the case.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not the case. And if people want to

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Speaker 2: continue to listen to any vaxx's and people with agenda,

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Speaker 2: then unfortunately you'll continue to be missing for Commissioner.

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Speaker 1: Can I ask on the weekend, I know that there

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Speaker 1: is a rally that is happening, a crime rally. Are

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Speaker 1: the police going to be there? You know? Is there

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Speaker 1: going to be a police presence? I guess is what

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Speaker 1: I'm asking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're directively monitoring that. Some of the initial advice

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Speaker 2: I've got already is again some of the groups that

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Speaker 2: are behind that at potentially identified as sovereign citizens and

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Speaker 2: some of those with some anti mandate type of sentiments.

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Speaker 2: So we would just urge everyone that if any of

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Speaker 2: those two oldmately come to the four, be very clear

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Speaker 2: on who the organizers are and what their true intent is.

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Speaker 1: Commissioner, very quick one, how many police are currently on leave?

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Speaker 1: I know that you probably won't have that number in

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Speaker 1: front of you right now. But the Chief Minesster joined

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Speaker 1: us on the show a couple of weeks ago and

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Speaker 1: said that there were a lot of police on leave

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Speaker 1: right now. Is that the case and is that having

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Speaker 1: an impact for you in terms of juggling resources.

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Speaker 2: We've been working through leave parameters. Obviously we have play

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Speaker 2: catch up with a lot of leave during the COVID era,

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Speaker 2: but certainly what we've managed to see in more recent

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Speaker 2: times is a balancing of our takeup of SEAK leave

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Speaker 2: and certainly through the recent Enterprise Bargaining agreement, that's something

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Speaker 2: that's been quite topical and we've been working in partnership

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Speaker 2: with the TPA to have some other mechanisms in there. Also.

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Speaker 2: We've clearly had the growth in our health and well

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Speaker 2: banning space. We're employing my more sites than we've previously had,

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Speaker 2: and we've got a lot more people returning to full

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Speaker 2: time duties at the moment, so things that are in

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Speaker 2: pretty good shape. I think the information that Chief Minister

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Speaker 2: had was potentially somewhat dated, and we're ensuring that a

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Speaker 2: brief goes up that provides a more contemporary assessment of

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Speaker 2: where things are aut.

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Speaker 1: On that EBA I know that the association there was

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Speaker 1: also I have seen some of that documentation and one

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Speaker 1: of the lynch pins seem to be that there needs

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Speaker 1: to be a review into police resourcing. Is that something

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Speaker 1: that you want to see.

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Speaker 2: We've already been undertaking that work for quite a period

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Speaker 2: of time. I've managed to procure and e rostering system

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Speaker 2: that is currently being implemented across the agency. We hope

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Speaker 2: to have that up and running by about September. But

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Speaker 2: I'm very, very keen to be our partner to a review.

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Speaker 2: We are the subject matter experts and we are the

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Speaker 2: ones who will be able to guide and inform that

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Speaker 2: quite toolsomely. We know our business, we know our demand environment,

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Speaker 2: we see the data, we do our intelligence assessments, and

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Speaker 2: again we're very much in an environment now where prioritization

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Speaker 2: is the key thing that we do every hour of

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Speaker 2: the day.

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Speaker 1: So an internal review would be better than an external one.

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Speaker 2: It won't matter really in our humble opinion. We've already

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Speaker 2: got a significant amount of work underway, and the e

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Speaker 2: rostering will certainly give us probably greater visual awareness of

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Speaker 2: where each and every resource currently is at any given

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Speaker 2: point in time, which can only be the benefit for

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Speaker 2: our deploy litterly.

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Speaker 1: Police Commissioner Jamie Chalk, will we better leave it there?

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Speaker 1: Appreciate your time. Sorry we've gone a bit over.

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Speaker 2: OK. Thanks, thank you,