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Speaker 1: Let's get straight into it. The Chief Minister, Michael Gunna

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Speaker 1: joins me in the studio right now. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good a Katie.

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Speaker 3: He g good Chief Minister. How did you celebrate Territory Day?

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Speaker 4: Well, was Hudson's first territory day, so we had no

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Speaker 4: idea how he was going to handle it. So the

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Speaker 4: priority was warming him up to things that went bang

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Speaker 4: and sparklers and that. And the good news is he

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Speaker 4: slept through the night, which I can't believe, to be honest.

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Speaker 1: It's always good when they sleep through when it's not

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Speaker 1: a big deal for them. I always think that's a

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Speaker 1: lovely thing when that happens.

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Speaker 3: Do we know how many fires there were.

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Speaker 2: They're around three hundred scrub fires.

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Speaker 4: I think the one that had the most impact you've

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Speaker 4: mentioned it is the one out near Durak that put

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Speaker 4: a lot of smoke across Tiger Brennan and Tiger Brennan

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Speaker 4: had paused for a while while they dealt with it.

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Speaker 4: Mainly a lot of back burning that helped put out

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Speaker 4: that drac one. So a lot of really good hard

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Speaker 4: work from the fieries.

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Speaker 1: There was some pretty scary photos and vision shared on

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Speaker 1: social media. I'm sure that you've seen a lot of

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Speaker 1: it as well. Some of those residents must have been

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Speaker 1: pretty worried. You must be glad that we pulled through

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Speaker 1: relatively un.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, obviously looking at the advice closely leading up to

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Speaker 4: the day, se if we make any of those hard

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Speaker 4: decisions or been very unpopular decisions around having to se

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Speaker 4: cancel or stop sell selling fireworks or usage of fireworks

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Speaker 4: particular areas, but the advice will came through. Okay, But

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Speaker 4: that's not to mean there was not a lot of

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Speaker 4: hard work done. So if in our rural area I

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Speaker 4: think is around one hundred volunteers and twenty five bush

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Speaker 4: fires m T staff, so significant work done. There was

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Speaker 4: about three or four fires out out that way in

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Speaker 4: the rural region areas that.

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Speaker 2: Were they were pretty big as well, So a lot

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Speaker 2: of hard work.

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Speaker 1: So certainly next year will be glad hopefully to go

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Speaker 1: back to our normal territory day date. Because so you're worried.

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Speaker 1: I mean obviously that doing it later in the year

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Speaker 1: did have an impact here, I would suspect.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we looked at the fire conditions.

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Speaker 4: It was actually on August twenty nine, and probably a

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Speaker 4: bit better this year than it has been on some

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Speaker 4: recent July ones in terms of the advice we were getting.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, it's just pot luck during the dry season.

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Speaker 4: I much rather have it on July one because it

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Speaker 4: means that COVID hasn't interfered of our Territory Day for

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Speaker 4: the first time in a couple of years.

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Speaker 2: So that will be fantastic. We can just do it

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Speaker 2: on Territory Day.

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Speaker 3: Now, let's talk about COVID. You just touched on it.

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Speaker 1: Then I know that it is top of mind for

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Speaker 1: everybody around Australia at the moment, and that is vaccinations.

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Speaker 1: You've been on the record saying that the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: will not freely be able to open up unless our

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Speaker 1: indigenous populations vaccinated. What is the vaccination rate at the

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Speaker 1: moment in our indigenous communities?

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Speaker 4: So this is a very big conversation at National Cabinet.

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Speaker 4: I went there again last Friday. The modeling from Doherty

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Speaker 4: essentially looks Australia almost as a homogeneous sort of groupings

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Speaker 4: the seventy percent vaccination rates. The territory is different obviously,

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Speaker 4: where we've got very strong service centers in Darwin, Alice Springs,

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Speaker 4: Tenant and Catherine where we might look like we're separated

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Speaker 4: by distance, but a lot of people come in and

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Speaker 4: out of Darla and Alice.

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Speaker 2: We have to all be at seventy percent.

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Speaker 4: We are just below fifty on first dose and just

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Speaker 4: above thirty on second dos last week is I got

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Speaker 4: I'll get you exact numbers.

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Speaker 3: That's in the indigenous commote est.

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Speaker 4: As in remote remote communities Obviously an avisional rate I

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Speaker 4: can't tell you the top of my head, but that

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Speaker 4: would include people in urban areas. So I'm looking more

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Speaker 4: closely probably at what the remote rates are at this stage.

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Speaker 4: The problem in the remotes is it's very lumpy, like

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Speaker 4: I've got communities number one, for examples, at seventy percent

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Speaker 4: first dose, and you've got community Central Australia that are

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Speaker 4: significantly lower than that.

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Speaker 2: And it all depends on your rollout program.

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Speaker 4: So we're doing lots of work with the absouble community

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Speaker 4: controlled health sector. We're not in charge of all these

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Speaker 4: communities that they have community clinics, and we've got to

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Speaker 4: work with them getting that vaccination rate up.

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Speaker 1: Because it's fair to say that the reality of this

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Speaker 1: is that the Northern Territory is not going to be

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Speaker 1: opening up to the rest of Australia until we can

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Speaker 1: get those vaccination rates to seventy percent in our indigenous

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Speaker 1: communities or do you.

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Speaker 4: Want to hire Well, no, we're obviously going for over eighty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the first up national plan is seventy.

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Speaker 4: Now, I am confident that with the right supplying program,

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Speaker 4: which we're doing at the moment, we can hit these targets,

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Speaker 4: probably similar to the rest of the nation. But we can't.

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Speaker 4: We have to go out and do the work. We

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Speaker 4: can't just take it for granted. And that's one of

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Speaker 4: the things that we're working on with Victoria Tazzi and

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Speaker 4: the Australian government is that you can't take it for

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Speaker 4: granted that you'll get to seventy or eighty is how

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Speaker 4: do you get there and how do you stay there?

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Speaker 1: So did you say right now in our remotemmunities seventy

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Speaker 1: percent have had their first dose.

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Speaker 2: That I use nimber War as an example. The ad

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Speaker 2: seventy percent first dose.

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Speaker 4: The remote community rate is I'll double check these actigs

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Speaker 4: for YOURKD, but just below fifty first dose and just

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Speaker 4: above thirty second dose in the remotes.

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Speaker 3: So there's some serious work to do there. If we

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Speaker 3: will open up.

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Speaker 2: By Christmas, absolutely for both seventy and eighty. But we're

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Speaker 2: getting the supply now.

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Speaker 4: We've been dose sharing for a while, so we've been

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Speaker 4: taking doses out of our supply, the Church government supply

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Speaker 4: giving it to the Abriaginal community tild health sector so

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Speaker 4: they had more doses.

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Speaker 2: To work within our remotes.

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Speaker 4: They're now getting more doses directly from the Australian Government

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Speaker 4: as well on top of that, and we've got a

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Speaker 4: big active plan into remote communities. It's a constant topic

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Speaker 4: at National Cabinet. So the Tenant General fun met last

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Speaker 4: week with all the different actual community providers across the

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Speaker 4: country which we will present for. We're actually going quite

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Speaker 4: well competed to the rest of the country and it

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Speaker 4: comes to remote vaccinations and we need a lot of

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Speaker 4: effort in those areas across the nation.

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Speaker 1: When do you think that everybody in those remote communities

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Speaker 1: eighty percent is going to be vaccinated and you're going

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Speaker 1: to be able to open up.

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Speaker 4: I'll have a really good feeling during October, might be

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Speaker 4: towards the end that's when we know we've got enough

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Speaker 4: supply to be able to do a lot of the

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Speaker 4: first dose efforts, and at that point in time, I'll

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Speaker 4: be able to say this is a problem community.

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Speaker 2: It's not a supply issue. That's a hesitancy area, and.

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Speaker 4: That could be a remote community or it could be

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Speaker 4: parts of Dale and Palms Thnalos. But so round October,

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Speaker 4: maybe towards the end, we'll know for sure it's not

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Speaker 4: supply issue anymore, that's a hesitancy issue.

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Speaker 1: And so will you feel confidence confident once we get

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Speaker 1: to that point that then you know we're not going

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Speaker 1: to have to go into lockdown for three days.

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Speaker 3: If we've got one positive case in the community.

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Speaker 4: So it's seventy, it becomes much less likely, and at

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Speaker 4: eighty it would be incredibly real under the national plan,

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Speaker 4: So that one's ruling out lockdowns at these stages, it

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Speaker 4: just gives you, I'll have much more choices at our

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Speaker 4: disposal depending on the scenario of the outbreak.

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Speaker 2: But it's become much less likely that we'll have do lockdowns.

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Speaker 1: Now, last week you flagged making the vaccine mandatory. How

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Speaker 1: are you going to do this?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so in certain conditions, I want to reassure people

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Speaker 4: out there, I'm never going to grab you and jab

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Speaker 4: you for the max sense, like you still have choice.

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Speaker 4: But we already are mandatory vaccinations at our quarantine center

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Speaker 4: and mandatory vaccinations for all staff at our age care.

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Speaker 2: So quarantine is obviously high risk.

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Speaker 4: There are constant cases through quarantine and age care centers.

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Speaker 4: We've seen tragically Victoria's second wave. They're highly vulnerable areas.

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Speaker 4: So I'm looking at what other sectors or areas may

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Speaker 4: we need to do a similar approach, you know, take that,

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Speaker 4: take that philosophy too. And obviously we've seen WA and

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Speaker 4: Queensland already say vaccinations of first jabs are part of

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Speaker 4: their condition of entry.

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Speaker 2: I think we want to work towards the DA do

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Speaker 2: that well.

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Speaker 4: I want to get some considered legal of us of

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Speaker 4: our own and then make a series of decisions in

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Speaker 4: and around this. But I think I want to be

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Speaker 4: able to say there are going to be advantages of

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Speaker 4: vaccination at some stage too, So actively, you know, is

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Speaker 4: that seventy, is it at eighty? At what point can

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Speaker 4: vaccinate people quarantine at home? You know, working with dot

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Speaker 4: heggy around that. So there are vantages to vaccination. So

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Speaker 4: it's not about punishing people whore unvaccinated. It's that saying

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Speaker 4: people who are vaccinated you're a safer entity, you're a

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Speaker 4: more trusted entity.

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Speaker 2: We can use you in these ways.

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Speaker 1: And so at this point in time, if somebody has

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Speaker 1: got the has their double dose vax, if we get

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Speaker 1: to you know, at what point will you say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: those people no longer have to go into Howard Springs

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Speaker 1: if they come back into the Northern territory, for example,

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Speaker 1: from the hotspot.

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Speaker 4: I'm working on this with doctor Hege right now. But

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Speaker 4: whether it is is it at seventy or is it

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Speaker 4: at eighty? And to what extent are we worried because

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Speaker 4: this only applies really at the moment to people from

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Speaker 4: Victoria Act in New South Wales. So I love it

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Speaker 4: goes to also the state of those jurisdictions and if

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Speaker 4: they're say when we first come to National Plan, New

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Speaker 4: South Wales was not where New South Wales currently is.

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Speaker 2: It's very alarming.

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Speaker 4: So I've got to make a decision with Dr Hagey

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Speaker 4: about how do we see those hotspot areas and how

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Speaker 4: do we want to treat vaccinated people from those.

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Speaker 1: Hotpel And also though those Territorians who've actually been vaccinated

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Speaker 1: we heard from Lee's last week or Elizabeth in Alice Springs,

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Speaker 1: who was in the Todd facility. She'd received several negative

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Speaker 1: tests to COVID. She's also been double dose vaccinated, but

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Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to go out for an hour to go

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Speaker 1: and see her dying mother.

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Speaker 3: Her mum subsequently passed away.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is I think a real example of

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Speaker 1: why we need a really clear plan for Territorians as

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Speaker 1: to what rate we're going to get to vaccination wise

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Speaker 1: and when it will mean that those who've been vaccinated

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Speaker 1: don't miss out on things like that which are monumental

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Speaker 1: in their lives.

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Speaker 4: That's just that's a hard story, like you don't want

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Speaker 4: people to have to experience that.

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Speaker 2: I'm very very sorry about that.

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Speaker 4: I'm on that working group with Dan and Victorian government

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Speaker 4: and Pitt Goodwin and the Tasmanian government, with the Australian

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Speaker 4: Gunment and Scott around how do we start breaking out

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Speaker 4: the seventy and eighty So that's the active work of

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Speaker 4: National Cabinet at the moment that we're working towards and

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Speaker 4: when what kicks them.

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Speaker 2: Were at seventy or eighty.

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Speaker 4: I think it should be principles based And for me,

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Speaker 4: there is a clear advantage to vaccination. We know what

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Speaker 4: that advantage is I'm looking at doing what can we

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Speaker 4: put in that seventy percent pile, what can we put

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Speaker 4: in the eight percent pile? And do what you're doing

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Speaker 4: the modeling to make sure that if we do that decision,

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Speaker 4: it is a safe decision. So we're coming up very

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Speaker 4: close to be able to give some advice around those areas.

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Speaker 4: But that's a great example of where being vaccinated sh'll

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Speaker 4: give you more advantages.

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Speaker 2: And then if you're being in quarantine vaccinated, surely.

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Speaker 4: We can make some decisions at some point soon around

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Speaker 4: being to treat you differently.

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Speaker 1: When do you think that's going to happen, like what

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Speaker 1: you know in terms of the schedule to the end

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Speaker 1: of the year, When do you think we're going to

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Speaker 1: get to that point?

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Speaker 4: Well, it's been three National cabinets in a row where've

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Speaker 4: had the conversation. I can't give you a hard, hard

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Speaker 4: end point. I've asked for specific Doughty modeling around remote

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Speaker 4: communities because I don't think seventy and eighty is the

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Speaker 4: right figure for remote communities.

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Speaker 2: Have to go into that.

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Speaker 4: Our remote communities have a much younger population than the

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Speaker 4: Australian average, and the Doughty modeling is based around the

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Speaker 4: Australian median age in our remote communities. Though we've got

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Speaker 4: a median age around twenty five in a lot of

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Speaker 4: the Darwin communities Australia, white is around twenty one. That

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Speaker 4: means there's a larger percentage of the population shiply can't

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Speaker 4: be vaccinated. So does the modeling hold up in a

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Speaker 4: remote community or not? What's the actual figure for a

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Speaker 4: remote community? And Dolty haven't given me that advice yet.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we know that with that last lockdown it meant

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Speaker 1: that Parliament didn't seat.

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Speaker 3: Are those days going to be rescheduled?

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Speaker 4: Unlikely? We think we can do it with the days

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Speaker 4: we've got. Why, well, we can do the work we've

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Speaker 4: got the days we've got.

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Speaker 1: But the opposition doesn't feel that they're going to get

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Speaker 1: the opportunity and the independence. They made that pretty clear

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Speaker 1: last week. I mean, I know that obviously you guys

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Speaker 1: have the majority of seats, but we are talking about

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Speaker 1: you know, all of you represent territories from different areas,

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Speaker 1: So why not actually reschedule those days.

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Speaker 4: Well, we've got sittings at September, October, November and December.

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Speaker 4: We can get done in the days.

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Speaker 2: We've got left.

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Speaker 1: So is that because you didn't have much to actually,

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Speaker 1: from the government's perspective, much to actually present in parliament

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Speaker 1: last time you're sat.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 4: No, I think we just manage our workload. So it

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Speaker 4: might mean working a couple of late nights.

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Speaker 2: But we can do it.

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Speaker 1: So you'd prefer to do those longer nights rather than

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Speaker 1: actually reschedule those days or.

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Speaker 4: If it is longer nights, I'm just saying, we can

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Speaker 4: do longer nights, but we can get the work done.

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Speaker 1: Can you understand though, how some people might think that's

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Speaker 1: a bit rich, given the fact that then you shut

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Speaker 1: down that discussion obviously when the center motion was put

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Speaker 1: forward on the grandstand, for example, I know there's still

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Speaker 1: lots of people in the community who feel that there's

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Speaker 1: questions that need to be answered in that space.

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Speaker 4: I have answered a lot of questions on the grandstand,

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Speaker 4: and we don't have to agree with the opposition on

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Speaker 4: centre motions. They're saying we're bad, we say we're good.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's pretty like it's pretty extraordinary though, to shut

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Speaker 1: down a sense of motion, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: No, it's pretty regular really. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Under the last I've been in Parliament for what fourteen

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Speaker 4: to fifteen years, centr E motions.

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Speaker 2: Get shut down?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but not very often.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't I would necessarily agree with.

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Speaker 1: That, Honestly, I would say not very often. I know

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Speaker 1: when the COLP was empowered, it didn't happen very often.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I no, I disagree. We don't fail complete accepts

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Speaker 4: in you emotions.

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Speaker 1: So from your perspective, you feel as though you've handled

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Speaker 1: all of that quite well in terms of the Turf Club,

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Speaker 1: like the Grandstand situation, answering all that you could with

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Speaker 1: those written questions and answering all that you could in Parliament.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've always answered questions on it.

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Speaker 4: There's obviously been a eighteen month IK investigation into it

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Speaker 4: was pretty comprehensive, significant findings that we're back god on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I don't want to keep going over it

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Speaker 1: because I feel as though you and I have spoken

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Speaker 1: about this on numerous occasions. I feel like I'm covering

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Speaker 1: sort of old questioning. But I will ask you a

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Speaker 1: question that Edie's just sent through. It says, Hi, Katie,

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Speaker 1: could you please ask mister Gunner if he was the

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Speaker 1: who presented the draft for the Grandstand without going through

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Speaker 1: the correct government protocols and the buckstocks with him. Why

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Speaker 1: should he not resign as the Chief Minister based on this,

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Speaker 1: that's a question from Eddie.

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Speaker 4: So no, it went through the correct cabinet processes, So

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Speaker 4: it's just simply factually incorrect question.

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Speaker 1: But it didn't actually like again, also, wasn't actually that

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Speaker 1: keen to cover off on old graund But it didn't

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Speaker 1: actually was there actually Treasury documentation that supported it?

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Speaker 2: So as the KAC report showed, it was Department of

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Speaker 2: Business that did the work.

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Speaker 3: So there wasn't Treasury documentation which supported it.

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Speaker 4: The IKA could have looked at the work of any agency,

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Speaker 4: and the agency did the work was Department of Business.

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Speaker 1: So again I'll ask was there Treasury documentation that supported

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Speaker 1: that information or that proposal going forward to cabinet, because

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Speaker 1: it's long been discussed that it's a proposal that realistically

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Speaker 1: was one that was seen to be something that would

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Speaker 1: create jobs and that would get the territory moving. So

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Speaker 1: I would have thought that really there'd be that Treasury

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Speaker 1: documentation and the numbers to support.

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Speaker 2: That was done by Department of Business.

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Speaker 1: And so you really feel that there's no further questions

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Speaker 1: that need to be answered in this space.

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Speaker 2: I think people can ask questions, we can answer it.

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Speaker 4: I'm saying I've answered all the questions that could asked,

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Speaker 4: so that, for example, is factually incorrect.

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Speaker 1: But so why then, I mean, why in parliament when

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Speaker 1: these questions were raised, and even with the questions that

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Speaker 1: the opposition have put forward, why not actually go into

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Speaker 1: a bit more detail about it rather than sort of

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Speaker 1: just that stock standard answer that was provided.

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Speaker 4: Well, for example, the questions that he'll be asked during

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Speaker 4: parliament had all been previously answered and answers we're contained

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Speaker 4: within the Ikack report.

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Speaker 2: Like read the report.

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Speaker 1: Well now I have read the report, and I still

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Speaker 1: feel as though there are questions that aren't answered when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the cabinet process and why you guys

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Speaker 1: actually made that decision. But like I said, I'm not

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Speaker 1: overly keen to keep covering off on old ground. It

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Speaker 1: is something that you and I have talked about on

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Speaker 1: numerous occasions. But why didn't it go through the same

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Speaker 1: processes is what a usual proposal will go through.

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Speaker 4: It went through a normal cabinet process without change the

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Speaker 4: cabinet process. To say, anything evolving a decision like that

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Speaker 4: has to go through the budget cabinet process, but it

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Speaker 4: was a complete normal company process.

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Speaker 1: Just I think just to close off on these for today,

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Speaker 1: can you reassure territories that there's not other proposals that

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Speaker 1: have gone through in a similar way. You know that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people would be questioning why they've gone

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Speaker 1: through it.

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Speaker 2: Will anything like can look at absolutely anything.

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Speaker 4: I'm not aware of any other proposals that we have concerned,

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Speaker 4: but the rcac's welcome to look at them if they

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Speaker 4: discover one.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not aware of any.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I do want to move along.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, that wasn't something that I was planning

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Speaker 1: to talk about this morning, but our listeners take us

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Speaker 1: on different directions quite often. I do want to ask

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Speaker 1: about the local government elections. How did you feel were you?

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Speaker 1: I mean taking a look at the wash up? Obviously

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Speaker 1: Combat Scarlets is in Athena Pasco Bell is in. We're

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Speaker 1: still waiting to see who's in in Catherine Litchfield and

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Speaker 1: Alice Springs at this point in time.

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Speaker 3: What did you make of the wash up?

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm curious about the turnout data when we get

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Speaker 4: it from the Electoral Commission.

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Speaker 2: I don't seen it yet.

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Speaker 4: It probably be available, but when I went to vote

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Speaker 4: at around twish on Saturday, there was a very long

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Speaker 4: queue at the prep booth, so I'm presuming turn out

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Speaker 4: must have been pretty good. I heard a report of

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Speaker 4: some they roun out battle papers at one particular booth,

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Speaker 4: so that's good if there's been good turn out for

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Speaker 4: local government elections. But obviously con and Athena elected, darn

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Speaker 4: Palmerston being to work really well with them, I think

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Speaker 4: they've been good mayors and we don't know the results

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Speaker 4: in those other areas yet.

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Speaker 2: For me about comment on who's got it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll wait and see.

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Speaker 1: Some people having a bit of a crack at you,

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Speaker 1: I think on the socials on Friday night after you

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Speaker 1: had endorsed ed Smelt, one of the one of the

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Speaker 1: local people who put their hand up for an Alderman job.

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Speaker 3: Why did you do that for him and not the others?

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Speaker 4: Well, I've met with Eda a few times. I quite

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Speaker 4: liked him, he'd asked for some advice, etc. I'm happy

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Speaker 4: to do support. I know those quite a few local

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Speaker 4: members backed in different different candidates around the territory, so

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Speaker 4: it wasn't unusual for remember apartment to say this guy,

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Speaker 4: I think would be good and.

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Speaker 2: We'll go okay.

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Speaker 1: Is he the secretary of the Nightcliff branch of the

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Speaker 1: Labor Party or something to do with the Nightcliff branch

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Speaker 1: of the Labor Party.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I believe he's a party member that I'm pretty sure, okay,

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Speaker 4: but I would know about if he's got an office

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Speaker 4: title in Mikecliffe.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if he's got an office title or not.

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Speaker 1: I thought he was something to do with the Labour

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Speaker 1: Party though, a Nightcliffe, and I just wondered whether that

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Speaker 1: should have been disclosed as well in that post.

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Speaker 4: Well, there's quite a few people who run for council

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Speaker 4: that I've got party membership, but they don't run on

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Speaker 4: a Labor ticket. So we've never run a Labor ticket

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Speaker 4: or and we've got no policies at conference that hold

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Speaker 4: anyone who runs for council to.

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Speaker 2: A position, if that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Just finally, the Daily by election is obviously just

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Speaker 1: weeks away, not too far off at all. Neither you

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Speaker 1: or the ce ORP have got member or people running

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Speaker 1: in that electorate that actually live in the electorate.

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Speaker 2: Why, well, that is something that can happen.

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Speaker 4: Obviously, our candidate lives in Duane Darwin has lived in

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Speaker 4: Whatever for quite a number of years and is well

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Speaker 4: connected through the electorate.

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Speaker 2: It's a very big diverse electricate.

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Speaker 4: Timber Creek, Berry Springs, WOGGI what eye plumpa Bees Creek like.

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Speaker 2: It's a big diverse elector. I think it's a great electorate.

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Speaker 4: I believe our candidate will do a very good job

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Speaker 4: talking on behalf of everyone lives in that electorate.

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Speaker 1: Are you going to head out and help him out

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Speaker 1: over the next few days and weeks?

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Speaker 4: I was in the very bees, I was at the

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Speaker 4: markets on Sunday. I was outdoor knocking in Bachelor on Saturday.

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Speaker 4: It was a good hot day in Bachelor. So so yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'll get out and help well.

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Speaker 3: Chief Minister Michael Gunner, we better leave it there.

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Speaker 1: Always appreciate your time, haven't We haven't seen you in

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Speaker 1: the studio for a little while, so we appreciate you

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Speaker 1: coming in.

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Speaker 2: Thank you