1
00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,479
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Family's podcast.

2
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,240
Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

3
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:11,720
Speaker 2: once answers.

4
00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:16,159
Speaker 1: Me out, good day Mona and stops justin. Call some

5
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,760
Speaker 1: here with my wife and mum to our six kids, Kylie, missus.

6
00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,480
Speaker 1: Happy Families Today? Or is it just me? Is all

7
00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,720
Speaker 1: about sleepovers?

8
00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:24,560
Speaker 3: Is it just me?

9
00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,159
Speaker 2: Or are sleepovers a really bad idea?

10
00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,240
Speaker 1: So we're going to dive into that, but we wanted

11
00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,200
Speaker 1: to ask you first. Facebook blew up when we asked

12
00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,480
Speaker 1: this question. This is a provocative topic. People have strong

13
00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,440
Speaker 1: opinions about sleepovers, for both good and bad, for fairly

14
00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,839
Speaker 1: clear and obvious reasons. I think this is what some

15
00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:41,400
Speaker 1: of you said.

16
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,239
Speaker 4: Hi, my name is Joe. I'm calling from Kingscliff. My

17
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,479
Speaker 4: daughter last night, who's fifteen, had a sleepover with a friend.

18
00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,720
Speaker 4: I discovered that she had switched her location service off

19
00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,640
Speaker 4: and she wouldn't pick a phone up. I came to

20
00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,120
Speaker 4: light that she's gone to a teenage hangout in a

21
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,640
Speaker 4: park in Burleigh. Called the mother of the friend that

22
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,800
Speaker 4: she was staying with. She gave me the impression that

23
00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,000
Speaker 4: it wasn't her responsibility and it was my problem. I'm

24
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 4: curious to know who is liable there and who should

25
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:15,480
Speaker 4: really be overlooking everything.

26
00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:20,480
Speaker 3: Hi. My name is Marie and I'm from Melton, Victoria.

27
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,480
Speaker 3: I am a mum to two small boys, four years

28
00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,480
Speaker 3: old and two years old, and I'm also the teacher

29
00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,720
Speaker 3: to high school students. I have mixed feelings because as

30
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:35,240
Speaker 3: a teacher, I teach a lot of disadvantaged students. A

31
00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:40,200
Speaker 3: lot of my students have various forms of domestic violence

32
00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:45,119
Speaker 3: or divorce or poverty in their lives. So I've seen

33
00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:50,320
Speaker 3: what can happen, and I know the statistics around who

34
00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:56,080
Speaker 3: commits domestic violence. But at the same time, not everyone

35
00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 3: is like that, and I would hate for my fears.

36
00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,040
Speaker 3: She ruined like talks.

37
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,720
Speaker 1: Childhood, Kylie's some great feedback there. And by the way,

38
00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:08,480
Speaker 1: if you want to leave us a message, you don't

39
00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 1: have to email us at podcasts at happy families dot

40
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,520
Speaker 1: com dot you anymore. We have an easy to use button.

41
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:14,600
Speaker 1: It's a brand new plug in on our website, Happy

42
00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,119
Speaker 1: families dot com dot You. Just go to the website,

43
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,120
Speaker 1: press the button and start talking. It's that easy, and

44
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:26,080
Speaker 1: we love hearing your voice on the podcast. Okay, let's

45
00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,320
Speaker 1: dive into it, Kylie. The pros and cons.

46
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,320
Speaker 2: Is there actually any science around sleepovers.

47
00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,960
Speaker 1: No, well, there's no Australian data on sleepovers. I have

48
00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:40,120
Speaker 1: combed through the through the databases and it's really hard

49
00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,080
Speaker 1: to find. In fact, it's hard to find good evidence

50
00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,120
Speaker 1: on sleepovers, full stop, end of story. We kind of

51
00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,560
Speaker 1: have this belief that there's a whole lot of research

52
00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,240
Speaker 1: on a whole lot of things and we can just

53
00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 1: tap our fingers and I don't know, chat, GPT or

54
00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,280
Speaker 1: Google or whatever the latest AI is is going to

55
00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 1: tell us the answer to our question. But sometimes we

56
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,640
Speaker 1: don't have good reasons. Sometimes we actually don't know.

57
00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,120
Speaker 2: So we're just making it up.

58
00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,280
Speaker 1: Well, there is some data, and that's what we're going

59
00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,600
Speaker 1: to point to in this conversation. We don't know how

60
00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,120
Speaker 1: many kids are having sleepovers. We don't have any idea

61
00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,240
Speaker 1: how many parents are banning sleepovers. We do know that

62
00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,040
Speaker 1: every time we discussed it on social media, it gets

63
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,560
Speaker 1: a big response. And even though there isn't much research,

64
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 1: I've scrounged around and found a few bits and pieces.

65
00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,680
Speaker 1: So I've come up with three research backed reasons that

66
00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,359
Speaker 1: sleepovers are awesome. And I also found three research backed

67
00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,640
Speaker 1: reasons that sleepovers are concerning. Let's dive into them. You

68
00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,160
Speaker 1: want to start with the pros or the cons.

69
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 2: Well, I'm always forgetting the cons out of the way,

70
00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:40,040
Speaker 2: so let's start there.

71
00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:41,520
Speaker 1: So if I was to ask you, what do you

72
00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,920
Speaker 1: think the biggest reasons people would be anti sleepovers could be?

73
00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,720
Speaker 1: In addition to or including what we've already heard, what

74
00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:48,320
Speaker 1: would you say?

75
00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,440
Speaker 2: Safety issues would have to be paramount. I'd be at

76
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:52,120
Speaker 2: the top of the list.

77
00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, safety concerns in the research, this is the deal

78
00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,480
Speaker 1: breaker for a lot of people. And I get it.

79
00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:01,000
Speaker 1: Sleepovers pose huge safety risks for children, the risk of

80
00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:08,200
Speaker 1: incidents and accidents and exposure to inappropriate behavior, and we know,

81
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,080
Speaker 1: I mean, this is really concerning. I had a chat

82
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,280
Speaker 1: with one of the lead researchers on the Estrange Child

83
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,200
Speaker 1: Male Treatment study just a month and a bit ago

84
00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,839
Speaker 1: on the Happy Families podcast, and he indicated that their

85
00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,120
Speaker 1: brand new research just published shows that the group most

86
00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 1: likely to perpetrate abuse against kids as other kids. So

87
00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,520
Speaker 1: we know that harm is most likely to be done

88
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 1: by people who are known by and trusted by the

89
00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,160
Speaker 1: victim of the abuse, and often it's another young person

90
00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,159
Speaker 1: like a big brother or just somebody else is in

91
00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:38,919
Speaker 1: the house. Safety concerns paramount.

92
00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:40,760
Speaker 2: The other things that stand out for me is the

93
00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,760
Speaker 2: disruption of routines. Every time our children have had a sleepover,

94
00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,159
Speaker 2: every time they have come home and absolutely rerect.

95
00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:50,560
Speaker 1: How many days do you reckon? It takes kids to

96
00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,080
Speaker 1: recover from a good quality sleepover at.

97
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,719
Speaker 2: Least two or three By then, by then the weekend's

98
00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,040
Speaker 2: over and we're back into the school week, and we're

99
00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,560
Speaker 2: trying to push through the brain.

100
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,880
Speaker 5: Frog, through the brain frog. It's very yes, I have

101
00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,400
Speaker 5: brain frogs. Those brain frogs are really tough to get

102
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,920
Speaker 5: through too. It's true sleepovers are guaranteed to disrupt kids

103
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:17,040
Speaker 5: sleep patterns, guaranteed boost fatigue, Guaranteed that more often than night,

104
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,440
Speaker 5: your kids are going to come home cranky, cranky and

105
00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,120
Speaker 5: tired and ratty and miserable, impaired cognitive function.

106
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,640
Speaker 1: They're horrible for a few days after. As you said, Kylie,

107
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,920
Speaker 1: research does tell us that are regular sleep schedules, such

108
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,159
Speaker 1: as those that kids are going to experience when they

109
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,280
Speaker 1: go and have their sleepovers, are also going to not

110
00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,480
Speaker 1: just not just have those negatives, but it can impair

111
00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,880
Speaker 1: their academic performance and obviously it has an impact on

112
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:41,360
Speaker 1: their mood.

113
00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:47,240
Speaker 2: And lastly, I think the issues around peer exclusion and

114
00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,960
Speaker 2: peer pressure would be another thing on the list.

115
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,960
Speaker 1: So we've talked about this before, the issue of when

116
00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,599
Speaker 1: the kids are getting together, sometimes in a big group,

117
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,839
Speaker 1: sometimes a small group. It doesn't really matter the size,

118
00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:01,440
Speaker 1: but once it's late at night, good things don't usually happen.

119
00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,120
Speaker 2: I actually had a friend reach out to me recently.

120
00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,520
Speaker 2: She's got a thirteen year old daughter who's desperate to

121
00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,640
Speaker 2: have some friends over, and the parents would be going

122
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,560
Speaker 2: out for an evening and not getting back till really late,

123
00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,360
Speaker 2: and so she just asked me what my thoughts were

124
00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,680
Speaker 2: on whether or not it would be okay for her

125
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 2: to leave her thirteen year old daughter behind with a

126
00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,719
Speaker 2: few other girls, because this is her first time round.

127
00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,000
Speaker 2: And I just said to her, look, I'm not really

128
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,120
Speaker 2: worried about the girls you're talking about and what they

129
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,119
Speaker 2: might get up to. They're really good kids, I said.

130
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,120
Speaker 2: But the challenge you have when you get more than

131
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,640
Speaker 2: one girl together is just the emotional challenges that exist

132
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 2: and their inability to navigate those without adult supervision.

133
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the challenges of exclusion or bullying, or someone

134
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:53,720
Speaker 1: saying something snide or something innocent being interpreted ambiguously taken

135
00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,200
Speaker 1: the wrong way, and then you've got this kid who's

136
00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,839
Speaker 1: in the corner, kind of stuck late at night with

137
00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,400
Speaker 1: no one to turn to, feeling insecure, feeling hopeless, feeling excluded,

138
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,320
Speaker 1: and of course there is the risk that that can

139
00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,720
Speaker 1: blow up into something far, far worse, because they're tired,

140
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,400
Speaker 1: they're hyped up on sugar and all those kinds of things.

141
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,120
Speaker 1: So they're the concerns, and I think that they're warranted,

142
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,040
Speaker 1: they're important concerns. Can I just quickly dive into a

143
00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,040
Speaker 1: couple of arguments for sleepovers. I'm actually an advocate for them,

144
00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,000
Speaker 1: in spite of the risks. If we can get sleepovers

145
00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,520
Speaker 1: right and if kids can be safe, I think sleepovers

146
00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,200
Speaker 1: are fantastic, in spite of the fact that the kids

147
00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:30,600
Speaker 1: can be grumpy the next day, and in spite of

148
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,560
Speaker 1: the fact that there can be some exclusion going on,

149
00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,480
Speaker 1: and in spite of the fact that it's a potentially

150
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,760
Speaker 1: dangerous thing. From a I know I'm not making this.

151
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,000
Speaker 1: I'm not selling it really well, am I. But from

152
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,560
Speaker 1: a social development point of view. Research researchers at the

153
00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,240
Speaker 1: University of Maryland showed that positive peer relationships established during

154
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,239
Speaker 1: childhood sleepovers can lead to greater social confidence later in life.

155
00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,920
Speaker 1: What happens is that a sleepovers provide like this, they're scaffolding.

156
00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,480
Speaker 1: It supports social development. It gets kids into this event

157
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,920
Speaker 1: where they're learning how to navigate friendships and conflicts and

158
00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,000
Speaker 1: compromise outside of the typically structured environment of school or home.

159
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,080
Speaker 1: And I don't know that it's healthy or safe to

160
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,120
Speaker 1: protect our kids from that stuff all the time. It's

161
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,080
Speaker 1: good that they end up in those situations so long

162
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,960
Speaker 1: as so long as they have the opportunity to navigate

163
00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,280
Speaker 1: them with appropriate support, and so long as the environment

164
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,560
Speaker 1: supports cooperation and conflict resolution and empathy. So for me,

165
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,000
Speaker 1: I think that the social potential and the fact that

166
00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,280
Speaker 1: the kids some of my best memories, some of my

167
00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,720
Speaker 1: best memories are from sleepovers. We didn't have sleepovers when

168
00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,600
Speaker 1: I was a kid until I was into my teen years.

169
00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:34,840
Speaker 1: That was just the way it worked in my family.

170
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,080
Speaker 1: But Kylie, I remember my friends would stay over. One night,

171
00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,160
Speaker 1: we went into the pantry, so Mum and dad had

172
00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,240
Speaker 1: a walk in pantry in this particular house. Went into

173
00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,840
Speaker 1: the pantry. There was two leaders of chocolate chocolate syrup

174
00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,160
Speaker 1: and one of my friends Aaron said, what will you

175
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:51,040
Speaker 1: give me if I drink it?

176
00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,920
Speaker 2: You are not doing yourself any favors right now.

177
00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,000
Speaker 1: We all said we'd give him five dollars. Back in

178
00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:58,920
Speaker 1: those days, that was a lot for us kids. We said,

179
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,760
Speaker 1: we give him five dollars if he would drink the

180
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,240
Speaker 1: two leaders of chocolate topping chocolate syrup.

181
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:03,920
Speaker 2: Disgusting.

182
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,200
Speaker 1: He got through a powder leader of it.

183
00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 4: That's disgusting.

184
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,440
Speaker 1: But when he burned, the whole room just smelt like chocolate.

185
00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,360
Speaker 1: I remember those things. I remember skinny dipping because we

186
00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:13,880
Speaker 1: all just thought it was so funny. Or doing anudy

187
00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:14,600
Speaker 1: run down the street.

188
00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,760
Speaker 2: Okay, so all the parents, all of us are all

189
00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:19,800
Speaker 2: screaming no, don't say anything else.

190
00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. But the thing is everyone did it

191
00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 1: as well, right, And everyone remembers the sleepovers because they

192
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:27,000
Speaker 1: did those dumb things.

193
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,280
Speaker 2: So there's a couple of things that jump out at me. Right,

194
00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,160
Speaker 2: I'm not against sleepovers at all, but with all of

195
00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,920
Speaker 2: the experience that we've had over the years, I probably

196
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,880
Speaker 2: am against group sleepovers.

197
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:45,240
Speaker 3: Right.

198
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,280
Speaker 2: Large groups have never worked out well. They just never

199
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,760
Speaker 2: have worked out well. I think having a really close

200
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:53,560
Speaker 2: friend come over and spend the night or you go

201
00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,760
Speaker 2: and spend the night with them. I think there's lots

202
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:56,400
Speaker 2: of merit to that.

203
00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,280
Speaker 1: What about camp be out in the backyard though, we

204
00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,280
Speaker 1: used to have just two or three my mate, we'd

205
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,320
Speaker 1: set up a tent in the backyard and we'd camp

206
00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:03,959
Speaker 1: over night in the backyard. We thought it was so awesome.

207
00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:05,160
Speaker 1: We'd go down to the shops and buy a couple

208
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,200
Speaker 1: of packets of Hubba Bubba and we would chew gum

209
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,480
Speaker 1: in the tent all night and it was just great.

210
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,640
Speaker 2: Well, you didn't let me finish, because the next thing

211
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,479
Speaker 2: was you acknowledged that you didn't actually start having sleepovers

212
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,880
Speaker 2: well into your teens, and that makes a huge difference.

213
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,520
Speaker 2: I remember one of our kids getting a sleepover invite

214
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,640
Speaker 2: as a six year old. Yeah, with a group of

215
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,800
Speaker 2: six year olds, and I just they're not ready for that.

216
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:31,880
Speaker 2: If you want to, if you want to start to

217
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,080
Speaker 2: stretch your kids in a social way, send them to

218
00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,800
Speaker 2: grandma's at six, send them to grandma's at eight.

219
00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 4: Well.

220
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 1: See this is important as well. Sleepovers with friends versus

221
00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 1: sleepovers with family, that's an important distinction, so very different.

222
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,160
Speaker 2: I literally remember having a sleepover at my auntie's house

223
00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,000
Speaker 2: when I would have been. I want to say five

224
00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,280
Speaker 2: or six. I was really young, and I have a vivid,

225
00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,360
Speaker 2: vivid picture in my mind of being in my boy

226
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,400
Speaker 2: cousin's bed room. So he'd obviously gone. I wasn't sleeping

227
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,520
Speaker 2: in the room with me. I had his room. He

228
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,120
Speaker 2: had trucks on the walls, and I could just see

229
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,040
Speaker 2: these trucks, and I was so scared. I wanted I

230
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 2: wanted my own familiar space. But there was nowhere to go,

231
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,920
Speaker 2: there was nowhere to know, There wasn't any way to

232
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:20,080
Speaker 2: deal with it. I had to be there.

233
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,560
Speaker 1: So there's another another cond there's the anxiety of sleepovers

234
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:24,200
Speaker 1: for little kids.

235
00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,560
Speaker 2: So age matters and context matters, all.

236
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:29,720
Speaker 1: Right, I want to come to those in a second.

237
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,320
Speaker 1: Let's just do a quick summary of where we are. First,

238
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,240
Speaker 1: of all, the arguments against sleepovers. Number one, there's the

239
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,880
Speaker 1: safety concerns. Number two, there's a disruption to routine. Number three,

240
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,720
Speaker 1: there's the stuff that goes on in the peer group

241
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,360
Speaker 1: that's not positive. And we could add screens as well,

242
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 1: like that, that really changes the dynamic again if screens

243
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,000
Speaker 1: are involved. The positives the arguments for sleepovers, there's the

244
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,679
Speaker 1: social development, there's the memories and the bonding that I've

245
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,320
Speaker 1: clearly made a big deal about.

246
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,400
Speaker 2: But you don't need to have a sleepover to make memories.

247
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,080
Speaker 1: No, you don't. But research shows that sleepovers can enhance

248
00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,760
Speaker 1: the emotional bond between kids and contry tribute to their

249
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:02,280
Speaker 1: overall well being and happiness.

250
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:03,080
Speaker 4: I'm eventually.

251
00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,560
Speaker 2: Development when we're drinking one leader of chocolate syrup.

252
00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:10,320
Speaker 1: And it also helps them to build independence and make

253
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,200
Speaker 1: decisions for themselves. That's the summary so far. Now there

254
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:15,640
Speaker 1: are five things that I think we need to bear

255
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,840
Speaker 1: in mind, and time is almost up already, So over

256
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,079
Speaker 1: the next seventy to ninety seconds, we are going to

257
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,080
Speaker 1: whizz through five things that we should keep in mind

258
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,120
Speaker 1: when we're talking about sleepovers. Kyle, you've already touched on

259
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,880
Speaker 1: the first one. The age matters. Age matters because when

260
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:36,040
Speaker 1: you're older, you're less likely to experience harm and abuse.

261
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,360
Speaker 1: Research shows that younger kids are at greater risk. They're

262
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,840
Speaker 1: simply more vulnerable. The older you are, the less vulnerable

263
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,040
Speaker 1: you are. Not that you're invulnerable, but you're less vulnerable

264
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,720
Speaker 1: as you get older. And when you're older, you're also

265
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,160
Speaker 1: much more aware. You get that spidy sense that tingle

266
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,200
Speaker 1: that feeling you know what's a risky situation and what's not,

267
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:56,880
Speaker 1: or at least you do much more than when you're

268
00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,200
Speaker 1: five or eight or eleven.

269
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,440
Speaker 2: I think the kind of personality your child has matters

270
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:02,800
Speaker 2: as well.

271
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,400
Speaker 1: So I would call this assertiveness.

272
00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:06,520
Speaker 2: If have you got a child who's willing to speak

273
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,439
Speaker 2: up and speak out when they're uncomfortable? Will they get

274
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,080
Speaker 2: in touch with an adult, whether it's ring you as

275
00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:16,400
Speaker 2: mom or dad, or go to the responsible adult in

276
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:16,839
Speaker 2: the house.

277
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,240
Speaker 1: Or have they got the guts to just look at

278
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,560
Speaker 1: their friends and say stop it, this is not okay?

279
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,720
Speaker 1: Like can they call out bullying? Can they look at

280
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,240
Speaker 1: someone and say what made you think that was right?

281
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,560
Speaker 1: Like having that moral courage. That's what I call it,

282
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:33,000
Speaker 1: the assertiveness, big, big, big deal. So number one, how

283
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,200
Speaker 1: old are they and how aware are they what's going on?

284
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,800
Speaker 1: Number two? How assertive are they? Number three? Communication?

285
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,640
Speaker 2: It's so important. Do your kids know that no matter what,

286
00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,319
Speaker 2: they can call you, Yeah, but they can reach out

287
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,000
Speaker 2: to your things are not going well.

288
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:49,560
Speaker 1: Which also prompts the question are you going to give

289
00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,480
Speaker 1: them a phone? If they're too young to normally have

290
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:52,920
Speaker 1: a phone, do they go with a phone, or if

291
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,680
Speaker 1: they don't have a phone, how do they contact you?

292
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,240
Speaker 1: What if the person who's supposed to be the trusted

293
00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,880
Speaker 1: adult in this situation is actually unsafe. They can't really

294
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,280
Speaker 1: say I need a phone to call my mom because

295
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,679
Speaker 1: you're scaring me. So it's a really, really, really tricky one.

296
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,360
Speaker 1: Some kids are going to be so easily swayed by

297
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,760
Speaker 1: their peers if things go sideways. Are they able to

298
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,720
Speaker 1: communicate with you and the people around them?

299
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,120
Speaker 2: How well do they know the people that you're leaving

300
00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 2: them with as well? I think that's a really important one.

301
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,320
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's call that number four. Let's just talk

302
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,480
Speaker 1: about supervision. How many kids are going to be there?

303
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,920
Speaker 1: Who else is going to be there? I remember you

304
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,280
Speaker 1: telling me a horror story about a sleepover shortly after

305
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,880
Speaker 1: we were married, where somebody that you knew was inappropriately

306
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,400
Speaker 1: touched by an uncle who was visiting from overseas. So

307
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,240
Speaker 1: the kids were having the sleepover and everyone in the

308
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,200
Speaker 1: house was safe except oh, hang on, we've got somebody

309
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,600
Speaker 1: new visiting from overseas. But they're a trusted adult, right

310
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:46,520
Speaker 1: because their family turns out they weren't. Horrifying story, absolutely horrifying.

311
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,320
Speaker 1: So as an adult you want to know who's there.

312
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:49,920
Speaker 1: And the last thing that I'm going to bring up

313
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,360
Speaker 1: is you want to know who is going to be responsible.

314
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,800
Speaker 1: We've had conversations with other adults who are going to

315
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,760
Speaker 1: be looking after our kids at sleepovers, and we've said,

316
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 1: is there anyone going to be drinking? And that matters

317
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,600
Speaker 1: purely because one time, my parents have gone overseas on

318
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,160
Speaker 1: a holiday and my grandma and grandpa were looking after

319
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,960
Speaker 1: us kids and Nana Pop had a couple of drinks

320
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,320
Speaker 1: one night. They weren't drunk or anything, but they had

321
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,360
Speaker 1: a few drinks and they certainly were not safe to drive.

322
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,640
Speaker 1: And I was playing a little bit rough with my

323
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,560
Speaker 1: sisters and broke one of my sister's arms. I know.

324
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,520
Speaker 1: So this isn't even a sleepover situation, but it just

325
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,640
Speaker 1: prompts the question, if something were to go wrong, are

326
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,680
Speaker 1: there responsible adults who are able to get in the

327
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,200
Speaker 1: car and get the kids to the hospital or do

328
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:38,680
Speaker 1: something to protect them. Again, unlikely, but not trivial. Not trivial.

329
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:39,880
Speaker 1: This stuff matters.

330
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,120
Speaker 2: So are key points from today's conversation. There are definitely

331
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,960
Speaker 2: a couple of things that go against having sleepovers.

332
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:46,720
Speaker 1: Were and they're big things.

333
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:51,160
Speaker 2: We've got some real concerns around safety for our children.

334
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,680
Speaker 2: There's the disruption to routine and just dealing with the

335
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 2: tear a child for the next twenty four or forty

336
00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,840
Speaker 2: eight hours afterwards, and the challenges around peer pressure an exclusion.

337
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,720
Speaker 2: They're real, and the arguments for it. Let's face it,

338
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 2: they're downright fun.

339
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,480
Speaker 1: They're downright they're downright fun.

340
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 2: There's so much to do, so much fun to have memories,

341
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 2: to make, bonding to create. Yeah, yeah, they're fun.

342
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,400
Speaker 1: Okay, So here's what I would say if you're looking

343
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:18,880
Speaker 1: for the upshot of all of this to take home

344
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,280
Speaker 1: message with kids under twelve, stick with a sleep under.

345
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,000
Speaker 1: Sleep under also known as a late over fancy way

346
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,680
Speaker 1: of saying, I'll pick you up late and bring you home.

347
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,680
Speaker 1: You're not staying over. So I really like that idea.

348
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 1: I reckon it works with bigger kids. I reckon you

349
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 1: just roll play practice. What will you say things aren't

350
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,000
Speaker 1: going right? Make sure that they know that they can

351
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 1: be assertive in the power of doing that. Next, make

352
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,760
Speaker 1: sure they can contact you. Make sure you know that

353
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,440
Speaker 1: they're never to enter the room of an adult or

354
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 1: someone of the opposite gender. I think that's super super important.

355
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,200
Speaker 1: It just keeps them safe. And now what's going on

356
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,960
Speaker 1: with alcohol and supervision and access to screens if you

357
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,080
Speaker 1: do that sort of stuff. Pre Armed is Prepared sleepods

358
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,240
Speaker 1: are amazing when they go well, and more often than not,

359
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,120
Speaker 1: most of the time they do go well, but keeping

360
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:09,320
Speaker 1: a kid safe is a priority, so hopefully this helps.

361
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:11,800
Speaker 1: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rawan from

362
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 1: Bridge Media and if you'd like more info about making

363
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,800
Speaker 1: your family happier or to read a written version of

364
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,040
Speaker 1: this podcast, not a transcript, just a written version of

365
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 1: a podcast, check it all out Happy families dot com,

366
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:24,359
Speaker 1: dot a