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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

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Speaker 1: now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Daily OS. It is Monday, the nineteenth of February. I'm Billy,

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Speaker 1: I'm Zara. It would have been hard to miss it.

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Speaker 1: Over the weekend, the Australian leg of Taylor Swift's Eras

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Speaker 1: tours kicked off in Melbourne.

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Speaker 2: Taller Swift is here touching down in Melbourne ahead of

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Speaker 2: her sold out Australian Eras tour. I've been trying for

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Speaker 2: tickets since.

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Speaker 1: Like the pre presale, Swift actually broke a personal record

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Speaker 1: performing to her biggest audience ever. But we just have

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Speaker 1: one question, why exactly is Taylor Swift so popular? Before

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Speaker 1: we get there, those are what is making headlines today.

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Speaker 2: Russia's opposition leader Alexi Novalni has died in jail at

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Speaker 2: the age of forty seven. Many Western leaders have blamed

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Speaker 2: the Russian government for his death, with US President Joe

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Speaker 2: Biden saying, and I quote what has happened to Navalne

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Speaker 2: is even more proof of Putin's brutality. No one should

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Speaker 2: be fooled. Putin has not issued a public statement since

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Speaker 2: Navalni's death, but a spokesperson for the Kremlin said he

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Speaker 2: had been informed the next Russian election will take place

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Speaker 2: next month.

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Speaker 1: Australian federal police officers are a step closer to launching

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Speaker 1: strike action amid ongoing demands for better pay. The Australian

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Speaker 1: Federal Police Association, or the AFPA, has filed an application

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Speaker 1: to the Fair Work Commission formalizing its intention to launch

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Speaker 1: industrial action. Over seventy five percent of the union's one

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Speaker 1: eight hundred members are in support of a strike. Police

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Speaker 1: are awaiting a decision from Fair Work before they can

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Speaker 1: take action because of rules for public sector workers, which

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Speaker 1: the AFPA called restrictive.

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Speaker 2: US President Donald Trump has been ordered to pay five

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Speaker 2: hundred and forty three million dollars in fines after a

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Speaker 2: court found he had overstated his net worth to obtain

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Speaker 2: better loans. The judge in the civil case said Trump's

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Speaker 2: complete lack of contrition and remorse borders on pathological. Trump

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Speaker 2: has also been banned from serving as a director of

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Speaker 2: any New York company for the next three years. It

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Speaker 2: will not impact his ability to run for president. However,

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Speaker 2: the former president has labeled the decision as quote Unamerican

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Speaker 2: and a complete and total sham Trump is expected to

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Speaker 2: appeal the decision.

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Speaker 1: And today's good news, Harvard University researchers have developed a

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Speaker 1: synthetic antibiotic that successfully fights drug resistant bacteria. It comes

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Speaker 1: to me growing global concern over antibiotics losing their effectiveness

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Speaker 1: to treat some infections. However, newly developed molecule has shown

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Speaker 1: an improved ability to fight drug resistant bacteria. The research

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Speaker 1: team at Harvard's that it's vital for scientists to win

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Speaker 1: the war against superbugs and called antibiotics the foundation on

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Speaker 1: which modern medicine is built.

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Speaker 2: Really, I think this is one of those stories that

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Speaker 2: really pushes the boundary of being news or noise, that

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Speaker 2: being what we always decide whether or not to cover

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Speaker 2: something on. But I think that talking about Taylor Swift

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Speaker 2: here actually is news because it's a cultural phenomenon unlike

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Speaker 2: anything we have seen in our lifetimes at least right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And I don't know what has shifted, but

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Speaker 1: it feels like in the last year, especially Taylor Swift

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Speaker 1: has just climbed to a level of success that feels

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Speaker 1: so extreme. She's completely in a field of her own,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think we've ever had this kind of

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Speaker 1: hype before, like you said, Zar, at least not in

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Speaker 1: our lifetimes for an artist coming to Australia. And what

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Speaker 1: I wanted to look at today is why is that

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Speaker 1: the case and how has she done that? And so

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Speaker 1: I spoke to Kate Patterson and she is one of

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Speaker 1: the only people globally doing a PhD on Taylor Swift.

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Speaker 1: She is a fan studies expert from r MIT University

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Speaker 1: and she also just hosted an academic conference called fan

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Speaker 1: Posium that brought together cultural studies scholars, music industry experts

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Speaker 1: and fans to explore hal Swift has got to this

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Speaker 1: point of such extraordinary influence.

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Speaker 2: I have a one am really looking forward to this chat.

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Speaker 2: I think that even if you don't like Taylor Swift's

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Speaker 2: music hypothetically, it is impossible to deny this cultural phenomenon.

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Speaker 2: And I think it is something that is going to

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Speaker 2: be studied for years and years to come, and I'm

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Speaker 2: looking forward to learning. So here's Billy's chat with Kate Patterson.

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Speaker 1: Kate Patterson, thank you so much for joining the Daily Oz.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: I want to start by acknowledging that there are people

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Speaker 1: who would have seen today's pod title and rolled their

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Speaker 1: eyes because they're tired of seeing Taylor Swift's name literally

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Speaker 1: everywhere at the moment. So why should people who aren't

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Speaker 1: fans care about Taylor Swift and the impact that she has.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think if you're somebody who's interested in

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Speaker 4: culture and the things that people are talking about, you

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Speaker 4: really can't ignore Taylor Swift. I think we're at a

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Speaker 4: point where, even if you might not like the music,

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Speaker 4: you really can't deny that she's really just infiltrated all

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Speaker 4: different parts of culture, whether it's the impact she's going

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Speaker 4: to have on the economy with the Eras tour, whether

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Speaker 4: it's winning the fourth Album of the Year Grammy, which obviously,

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Speaker 4: as we know, was record breaking last week. I really

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Speaker 4: just think it would be remiss of us to not

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Speaker 4: talk about Taylor Swift right now.

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Speaker 1: Certainly in my lifetime, I can't remember hype anywhere near

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Speaker 1: this surrounding an artist coming to Australia. Has this kind

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Speaker 1: of obsession ever happened before?

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Speaker 3: It's interesting.

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Speaker 4: I feel like this week a lot of people have

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Speaker 4: been comparing her to Beatlemania back in you know, the sixties,

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Speaker 4: when the Beatles came here. But I think it's really

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Speaker 4: hard to compare different artists from different sort of eres,

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Speaker 4: just given that right now, with social media and the Internet,

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Speaker 4: it's such a different time to back then. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I think fan communities are definitely not a new phenomenon,

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Speaker 4: but I think what's unique with Taylor right now is

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Speaker 4: we do have so much choice at the moment with

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Speaker 4: what we listen to, what we watch, what we want

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Speaker 4: to sort of talk about, and I think for an

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Speaker 4: artist to have had that kind of widespread appeal and

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Speaker 4: hype that Taylor has right now is pretty significant. I Mean, Beyonce,

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Speaker 4: i'd say, has had a similar kind of legacy that

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Speaker 4: she's building in terms of what she's doing and the

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Speaker 4: hype around what you know, she just announced her new

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Speaker 4: music this week as well.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I think that's what kind of makes Taylor unique.

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Speaker 4: And I think also as somebody who's studying fan studies,

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Speaker 4: I think her fandom is so engaged and they are

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Speaker 4: so you know, loyal to her and involved in so

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Speaker 4: many different ways that I think that's another aspect of

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Speaker 4: why we've seen this kind of hype that we perhaps

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Speaker 4: haven't seen in a little while when it comes to

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Speaker 4: artists coming to Australia.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, I feel like, growing up,

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Speaker 1: I always heard about Beatlemania, and it feels like Taylor

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Speaker 1: Swift coming is our generation's equivalent of that, or is

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Speaker 1: she even bigger than that. I don't know. It's so

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Speaker 1: hard to understand what it was like back then compared

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Speaker 1: to what it's like now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's the thing.

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Speaker 4: I think it's hard to compare one for the other,

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Speaker 4: and there are definitely some similarities and definitely some differences.

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Speaker 4: I think with Taylor too, being a female artist coming

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Speaker 4: here as well, that's been really interesting. She often sort

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Speaker 4: of gets compared to these other sort of legacy acts

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Speaker 4: and people aren't sure whether we should be talking about

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Speaker 4: her in the same category as the Beatles, for example,

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Speaker 4: And I think that's due to some kind of broader

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Speaker 4: gendered things we have with the music industry.

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Speaker 1: But I really want to understand why Taylor Swift is

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Speaker 1: so unique, because it feels like there are pop stars,

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Speaker 1: then there are superstars, and then it feels like there's

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Speaker 1: Taylor Swift who is just completely in her own field.

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Speaker 1: And I want to understand what is it about Taylor

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Speaker 1: Swift and what she has done has meant that she

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Speaker 1: has managed to break through in the way that she has.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's an interesting question. I think that's what

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Speaker 4: everybody's trying to figure out right now. I think for starters,

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Speaker 4: she has released a lot of music. I mean, since

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Speaker 4: the last time she was in Australia, we had Lover,

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Speaker 4: We've had Folklore Evermore, Midnights, We've had all the re recordings. Like,

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Speaker 4: there's just such a volume of work for people to

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Speaker 4: engage with across different genres too. I know a lot

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Speaker 4: of people who maybe aren't big country music fans or

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Speaker 4: an't big pop music fans, really came on board with

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Speaker 4: Folklore and Evermore and sort of realize all of a

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Speaker 4: sudden that perhaps they, you know, were a TAYLOR'SWIF fan,

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Speaker 4: or that they liked some of the music that she had.

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Speaker 4: And so I think from that point of view, she's

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Speaker 4: managed to accumulate a sort of broader fan base than

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Speaker 4: she had originally. And I think also she has been

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Speaker 4: doing a lot of things outside of music that have

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Speaker 4: had an impact. As I mentioned the re recording, a

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Speaker 4: lot of people have been interested in that sort of

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Speaker 4: story of her going back and re recording these albums.

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Speaker 4: And while she's not the first artist to do it.

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Speaker 4: I think the way that she's done it, and the

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Speaker 4: way that the fans have gotten behind her as well,

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Speaker 4: and the way that I guess she's advocating for other

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Speaker 4: musicians in the industry and trying to make things better

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Speaker 4: with the power that she has. I think in the

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Speaker 4: documentary Miss Americana, somebody says, you know, Taylor Swift is

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Speaker 4: the music industry, and it's really hard to talk about

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Speaker 4: any kind of aspect of the music industry right now

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Speaker 4: that hasn't had, you know, some conversation about Taylor Swift.

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Speaker 1: I also really want to understand what the role of

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Speaker 1: social media is in her success and how has she

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Speaker 1: used that differently to other people, because all artists have

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Speaker 1: social media, But what is it about how she has

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Speaker 1: used it that has meant she has been able to

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Speaker 1: cultivate this fan base.

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Speaker 4: I think with Taylor, right from the beginning, she's always

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Speaker 4: made a point of engaging with the fans and keeping

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Speaker 4: them in the loop and really making them a part

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Speaker 4: of her success in a way that has meant that

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Speaker 4: a they've come along for the journey with her. But

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Speaker 4: now that she's at this point where she's so huge,

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Speaker 4: she doesn't really need the media in the same way

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Speaker 4: that a lot of other artists do, just given how

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Speaker 4: famous and popular she is right now, and so she's

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Speaker 4: got that kind of direct relationship with her fans where

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Speaker 4: often she'll announce things to them for the first time,

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Speaker 4: whether it's on Instagram, you know, TikTok, whatever it might be.

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Speaker 4: And I think having that ability to sort of shape

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Speaker 4: the messaging and engage directly with the people that are

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Speaker 4: engaging with her music, I think has been really important,

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Speaker 4: and for things like when she was having that is

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Speaker 4: she was Scooter Borne and the masters is being able

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Speaker 4: to just literally directly say to the fans, like, this

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Speaker 4: is what's happening, this is where I kind of need

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Speaker 4: your support. And I think she's always been very good

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Speaker 4: at mobilizing her fans in that way. And so while

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Speaker 4: other artists definitely use social media, I think for some

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Speaker 4: people it's used as more of kind of like a

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Speaker 4: broadcast channel where they just sort of update people. When

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Speaker 4: you think about somebody like Harry Styles, who you know

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Speaker 4: has a great relationship with his fans, but he doesn't

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Speaker 4: really engage online. He kind of just posts updates of

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Speaker 4: what he's doing, and so I think it takes a

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Speaker 4: long time to cultivate that, and I think for Taylor,

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Speaker 4: she's done that right from the beginning, and that's why

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Speaker 4: it's working so well for her.

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Speaker 1: Now, yeah, you're saying that makes me think about how

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Speaker 1: I follow Taylor Swift on Instagram and it feels like

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Speaker 1: she's talking directly at me somehow, even though she's speaking

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Speaker 1: to hundreds of millions, if not billions, But it genuinely

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Speaker 1: feels like the communication style makes her feel like a

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Speaker 1: close friend almost, whereas everyone else I follow on social media,

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Speaker 1: I don't really feel that close or direct communication for me.

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Speaker 4: I think that's what Taylor Swift's strength is, whether it's

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Speaker 4: through her music and through her songwriting, or through the

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Speaker 4: way that she engages with fans online and offline. For me,

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Speaker 4: Taylor Swift is just so good at connecting with people.

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Speaker 4: She's able to relate to people. You know, you listen

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Speaker 4: to a Taylor Swift song and there's always somebody who's like,

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Speaker 4: oh my god, I feel like this was written about me.

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Speaker 4: Or as you said, I think in the way that

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Speaker 4: she does talk to her fans, she talks to them

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Speaker 4: like friends.

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Speaker 3: She doesn't talk to them as I'm this big celebrity. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that's what's so interesting is that she feels

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Speaker 1: relatable even though she could not be less relatable. I

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Speaker 1: want to move to fan culture more broadly. It feels

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Speaker 1: like it is predominantly led by young women and girls.

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Speaker 1: Why is that.

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Speaker 4: I think a lot of Taylor Swift fans and other

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Speaker 4: pop music fans are seen or perceived to be, you know,

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Speaker 4: predominantly female, and while there.

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Speaker 3: Is obviously diversity.

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Speaker 4: There within any fan community, I think those overarching perceptions

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Speaker 4: have over the years often sometimes had a negative impact

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Speaker 4: because they're seen as hysterical or delusional, or their fandom

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Speaker 4: is like really trivial. Because that's just kind of the

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Speaker 4: way that we treat women's interests unfortunately in society, is that,

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Speaker 4: you know, we just kind of dismiss them compared to

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Speaker 4: other things. And I think that's definitely shifted over the

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Speaker 4: last couple of years with Barbie and with Taylor Swift,

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Speaker 4: and I guess with young women sort of coming into

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Speaker 4: their own around really celebrating the things that they like

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Speaker 4: and celebrating the things that they're interested in. But I

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Speaker 4: always find it interesting, obviously, when we compare to something

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Speaker 4: like sports fandom, where we don't have those same kind

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Speaker 4: of conversations over their fandom being too much, or their

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Speaker 4: expressions of passion being seen as you know, overly emotional,

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Speaker 4: for example, in the same way.

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Speaker 3: That we might do for pop fans.

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Speaker 4: And so yeah, with my research, I'm really interested in

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Speaker 4: looking at the ways that fans participate in these communities,

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Speaker 4: and particularly for young women, how being part of a

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Speaker 4: fan community can be quite beneficial in terms of that connection,

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Speaker 4: in terms of building a sense of self and also

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Speaker 4: even sort of learning particular skills that then they can

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Speaker 4: go on to use in you know, the creative industries

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Speaker 4: or other sort of male dominie industries down the track.

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Speaker 1: That comparison between you know, young men or men who

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Speaker 1: are obsessed with sport for example, and how we treat

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Speaker 1: that compared to how we treat the fans of artists

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Speaker 1: like Tailor Swift is super interesting. I don't think I've

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Speaker 1: ever fully thought about that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think definitely it's sort of changing, but

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Speaker 4: I think it's important, you know, particularly as Taylor Swift

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Speaker 4: gets to Australia, I have seen already a lot of

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Speaker 4: people say, oh, it's already too much.

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Speaker 3: I'm sick of seeing all these fans.

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Speaker 4: I'm sick of seeing, you know, all of this behavior,

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Speaker 4: and I think, you know, unless you're doing the same

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Speaker 4: thing for people at the football or at the super

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Speaker 4: Bowl or anything like that, I think it's just important

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Speaker 4: to just think about the ways that perhaps we have

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Speaker 4: a double standard when it comes to the ways that

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Speaker 4: people are passionate about things.

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Speaker 1: Just lastly, I've been hearing a lot about how it

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Speaker 1: feels like Taylor Swift is at the peak of her

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Speaker 1: career and how long can this kind of success go

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Speaker 1: on for? Do you think that this level of fame

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Speaker 1: can be sustained for long periods of time?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think in terms of Australia, obviously, the

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Speaker 4: fact that she's coming here this month means that there's

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Speaker 4: a real heightened interest in her that I think will

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Speaker 4: drop off once she's left from the broader society obviously,

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Speaker 4: not for the fans. It's interesting because I think when

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Speaker 4: we think back to nineteen eighty nine, and you know

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Speaker 4: that sort of twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen time, a lot

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Speaker 4: of people thought that was the peak of Taylor Swift's fame.

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Speaker 4: You know, she really was everywhere as well, she'd just

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Speaker 4: won the Grammy again, and you know, she was just

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Speaker 4: infiltrating the culture in so many ways, and she's really

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Speaker 4: eclipsed that over the last year, which I think is

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Speaker 4: really interesting. So I think we could never say is

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Speaker 4: this the peak? But I think she just has reached

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Speaker 4: a level that I think will definitely be hard to top,

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Speaker 4: both for her and for other.

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Speaker 3: People over the next few years.

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Speaker 4: But she's still producing so much music, She's still wanting

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Speaker 4: to be a creative person and keeping producing things. So

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Speaker 4: who knows where the next few years will take her

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Speaker 4: and if this is something we'll see more of over

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Speaker 4: the next few years.

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Speaker 1: Kate, thank you so much for joining us on the

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Speaker 1: daily OS.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: If you have a spare two minutes this morning, we

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Speaker 2: would love it if you could fill out our podcast survey.

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Speaker 2: We have dropped the link in our show notes. We've

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Speaker 2: learned a lot from your answers so far, and it's

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Speaker 2: been so good to understand what you're loving and what

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Speaker 2: you're not loving and how we can improve. Thanks so much,

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Speaker 2: and we will speak to you again tomorrow morning.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Aarunda

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Speaker 1: bungelung cargottin woman from Gadigol country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.