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Speaker 1: Hello.

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Speaker 2: My name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud Order Order

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Speaker 2: Kerney Whaltbury and a waddery woman. And before we get

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Speaker 2: started on She's on the Money podcast, I would like

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Speaker 2: to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which

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Speaker 2: this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging the elders,

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Speaker 2: the ancestors and the next generation coming through. As this

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Speaker 2: podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and the storytelling

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Speaker 2: of you to make a difference for today and lasting

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Speaker 2: impact for tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into it.

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Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.

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Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money the pod.

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Speaker 4: We are some millennials who are ready to own their

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Speaker 4: financial future. I'm your host, Victoria Devine, and I want

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Speaker 4: you to put your hand up. Who else has been

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Speaker 4: binge watching The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. I feel

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Speaker 4: like our entire team is absolutely hooked, and my husband

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Speaker 4: as well. And while the drama is very juicy, I

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Speaker 4: decided to do a little solo Saturday episode because there's

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Speaker 4: actually something a little bit deeper happening here beneath literally

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Speaker 4: or the drama and chaos. What they're really talking about

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Speaker 4: is financial independence, the shifting gender roles, and I guess

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Speaker 4: this wild collision of faith and money which I cannot

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Speaker 4: seem to look away from. To understand the dynamic I

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Speaker 4: suppose at play in the secret lives of Mormon wives,

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Speaker 4: we need to actually first look at Mormon culture's deep

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Speaker 4: rooted gender roles, which to me are wild given I

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Speaker 4: got the privilege of growing up in Australia. But in

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Speaker 4: the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, more

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Speaker 4: often than not referred to as the Mormon Church, family

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Speaker 4: life is very central to religious teachings, which sounds nice, right, Men.

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Speaker 1: They're the providers. This is where it starts to slip downhill.

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Speaker 4: They're the ones who work outside of the home to

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Speaker 4: support their families, and it is expected that women manage

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Speaker 4: the household, they raise the children, and they support their

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Speaker 4: husbands spiritually and emotionally. When I looked it up, now,

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Speaker 4: this whole structure actually comes from deeply ingrained religious teachings

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Speaker 4: that really prioritize these people having mass amounts of children.

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Speaker 4: The idea in the Mormon Church is actually that the

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Speaker 4: husband and the wife are complimentary, but totally different. Their

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Speaker 4: jobs aren't the same. Women are seen to be nurturious.

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Speaker 4: They are focused on raising the children and creating this

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Speaker 4: like stable, faith filled home, while men their job is

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Speaker 4: to take on the financial responsibility and provide through work

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Speaker 4: outside of the home. And this division allows women to

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Speaker 4: just focus entirely in their minds, entirely on the family,

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Speaker 4: and then their husbands are expected to just make sure

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Speaker 4: that the financial will being of their family is tip

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Speaker 4: top right. So, in Mormon culture, it's really normal for

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Speaker 4: young women to be encouraged to marry young, which I mean,

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Speaker 4: we might think that that is not that normal, but

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Speaker 4: for them, it is very normal, and some even actually

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Speaker 4: get married before they even finish school or they even

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Speaker 4: think about starting a career. And on the show Demi,

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Speaker 4: she's one of I guess the more progressive voices on

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Speaker 4: the show. She's said, it's a theme within our church

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Speaker 4: and kind of a problem. Everyone's getting married before their

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Speaker 4: brain even develops, and that really resonated with me. The

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Speaker 4: expectation for them is to actually become full time mothers,

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Speaker 4: with some even homeschooling their kids. And while I guess

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Speaker 4: many women and me too, appreciate the foundation of love

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Speaker 4: and family and service. Mikayla cuts in and she said,

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Speaker 4: for a lot of us, following the rules of the

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Speaker 4: Mormon religion is just impossible. So enter the conversation around Mumtok,

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Speaker 4: which is where the secret lives of the Mormon wives

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Speaker 4: has actually come from.

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Speaker 1: So it's a community that.

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Speaker 4: Started out as what they call a supportive sisterhood of

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Speaker 4: Mormon mums that are sharing their lives online, bonding over

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Speaker 4: their faith and family and all of the chaos that

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Speaker 4: is motherhood, which sounds really wholesome. But as the group's

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Speaker 4: popularity really exploded, so did the drama. And I mean

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Speaker 4: that's why I like watching. And then after their soft

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Speaker 4: swinging scandal, which happened all over TikTok, their very close

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Speaker 4: bonds were completely fractured, and I mean I was definitely

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Speaker 4: watching on personal choices of each person in this mumtop

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Speaker 4: club were clashing and the sisterhood was completely crumbling under

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Speaker 4: this pressure. And then behind the glossy Instagram feeds that

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Speaker 4: they all post, these women were actually doing some really

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Speaker 4: cool stuff. They were building their own financial independence because

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Speaker 4: they'd basically become influencers.

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Speaker 1: They were getting these massive influencer deals.

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Speaker 4: And while they externally projected being perfect homemakers. That's how

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Speaker 4: they were making money, because they were making bank through

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Speaker 4: influencer deals, people reaching out to them saying, hey, your

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Speaker 4: platform is really great. We'd love to send you this

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Speaker 4: product to feature, and we'll pay you a nice amount

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Speaker 4: of money to do it. And that essentially started flipping

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Speaker 4: the script on this traditional Mormon reliance on the husband

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Speaker 4: for financial support, which is what I started to see

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Speaker 4: and go, hold on, this is kind of cool. This

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Speaker 4: is probably making the Mormon men a little bit uncomfortable, which,

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Speaker 4: as you know, I love to make men uncomfortable. But

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Speaker 4: who knew that dancing on TikTok could challenge I guess

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Speaker 4: centuries of tradition. These women, they were turning their stay

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Speaker 4: at home mum rolls into stay at home mogul roles,

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Speaker 4: and I thought that was really cool. And I guess

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Speaker 4: what started as a hobby of sharing their really cute

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Speaker 4: family moments online and doing some dances and having some

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Speaker 4: fun and like supporting each other as women because that's

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Speaker 4: what they needed, actually turned into a very serious business

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Speaker 4: and the influence and I guess the income that these

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Speaker 4: women were able to pull in from their videos and

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Speaker 4: their brand deals, and you know, being influencers wasn't just

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Speaker 4: having some extra play money or some extra cash. It actually,

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Speaker 4: if you look at these families, became their primary source

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Speaker 4: of income, which is kind of scary if you think

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Speaker 4: about it. In one scene, when they were all together

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Speaker 4: in a group, one of the women asked who here

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Speaker 4: is the breadwinner in their family and obviously hit record

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Speaker 4: then and surprisingly they all raised their hands, so they

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Speaker 4: were out earning their husbands.

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Speaker 1: And for me, it was a.

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Speaker 4: Powerful moment because it showed how much that dynamic had shifted.

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Speaker 4: These women aren't just managing households, They're managing businesses and households.

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Speaker 4: And what's wild, I guess, is that what has traditionally

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Speaker 4: been expected of them, which is being the stay at

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Speaker 4: home mums and being you know, the homemaker, has now

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Speaker 4: become the biggest key factor in them building their own

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Speaker 4: financial freedom, which I guess nobody saw coming, right and

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Speaker 4: I guess my emphasis here right now is on that

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Speaker 4: freedom topic. I'm going to go to a really quick

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Speaker 4: break on the flip side. We're going to get into

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Speaker 4: some juicy information about a few of the people from

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Speaker 4: the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. So don't go anywhere.

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Speaker 4: All right, we are back, and I want to dive

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Speaker 4: into talking about a few of the what will we

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Speaker 4: call them the characters on the show. So in one

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Speaker 4: episode they talk about Layla's divorce. I'm strapped in right,

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Speaker 4: like anybody mentions divorce. I need to know who did

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Speaker 4: what why when we're out, Like, I'm just pervy at

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Speaker 4: my core, right, It's why we do money diaries. But

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Speaker 4: within the Mormon faith, there's always the pressure to stay

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Speaker 4: in the marriage and just make it work. Like there's

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Speaker 4: so much shame often around getting a divorce, and now

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Speaker 4: imagine being a stay at home mum who has no income,

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Speaker 4: leaving would actually feel impossible. And we see lots of

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Speaker 4: people in our community going through this where you know,

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Speaker 4: they might reach out to she's on the money, and

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Speaker 4: they say the like I would love to leave my husband,

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Speaker 4: but I just don't have the means to do so.

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Speaker 4: And we can create a plan. If you're in that situation,

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Speaker 4: we can absolutely create a plan and make that work

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Speaker 4: for you, but it can feel absolutely unachievable and impossible.

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Speaker 4: But the big takeaway here is that for these women

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Speaker 4: and all women, financial freedom changes everything.

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Speaker 1: It gives you options.

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Speaker 4: It gives you the ability to choose, It gives you

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Speaker 4: the ability to decide, and most importantly, it gives you

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Speaker 4: control over your life. It's one of the reasons why

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Speaker 4: I'm so wildly passionate about having an emergency fund, irrespective

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Speaker 4: of whether you are the breadwinner or not. I want

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Speaker 4: you to have access to your own money so that

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Speaker 4: if you're ever in a situation that you don't want

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Speaker 4: to be in, you can get out, whether that's you know,

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Speaker 4: just getting a cab home after a late night because

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Speaker 4: you don't feel safe getting the bus, or if it

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Speaker 4: means leaving a relationship. Like I want women to have

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Speaker 4: access to their own financial freedom. But on the show,

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Speaker 4: these women are no longer financially dependent on their husbands,

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Speaker 4: and that independence shift actually changes the entire power dynamic

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Speaker 4: in their relationships, which can be a little bit scary

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Speaker 4: and one of the most fascinating or fascinating to me

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Speaker 4: dynamics on the show is between Jen and her husband Zach.

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Speaker 1: So at first it really looks.

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Speaker 4: Like Jen has married into money and she's doing really

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Speaker 4: well for herself. And Jen said, like, my mum was

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Speaker 4: the cleaner at the hospital where Zach's dad was the

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Speaker 4: surgeon and you just like listen to that and go, Okay,

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Speaker 4: this feels relatively stereotypical, right, But as the series goes on,

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Speaker 4: we learned what Zach's family did, and Zach's family gave

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Speaker 4: him some money to help him get through the period

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Speaker 4: that he was at medical school, which is a privilege

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Speaker 4: in itself. But Zach gambled all of that money away.

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Speaker 4: And now that Jen is working her butt off on

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Speaker 4: Mumtalk and getting all these influencer deals, she's actually become

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Speaker 4: the primary bread winner in her family. And it's actually

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Speaker 4: this power shift that Zach cannot seem to handle. And

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Speaker 4: on the show, Jen said, and I quote the male

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Speaker 4: typically being the sole provider within our religion makes our.

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Speaker 1: Situation a little bit tricky.

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Speaker 4: So it's not like they don't know this is a thing,

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Speaker 4: and it causes so much tension in their friend group,

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Speaker 4: so much tension in their marriage. Like Zach, he just

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Speaker 4: can't deal with this. But I mean, whose fault is it?

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Speaker 1: Is it Zach's?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you gambled all your money away. That

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Speaker 4: is not responsible. And there's this moment in the show

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Speaker 4: which really stuck with me, and it's when he begs

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Speaker 4: Jen to bankroll his poker game, and she tells him that, Okay,

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Speaker 4: I'll give you like twenty five hundred dollars and you

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Speaker 4: better not lose it. And I think it's a really

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Speaker 4: powerful reminder of how financial independence doesn't just empower women,

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Speaker 4: it actually challenges the traditional expectations within their marriage, specifically

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Speaker 4: now that Jen is kind of like leading the household financially,

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Speaker 4: and you can just tell he's not comfortable having to

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Speaker 4: ask his wife for money, which obviously we all want

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Speaker 4: to be able to stand on our own two feet.

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Speaker 4: But like, there's obviously some gender stuff going on there

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Speaker 4: that we could look a much deeper into. But things

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Speaker 4: on the show absolutely blew up. Right, the girls go

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Speaker 4: to Vegas, or they all go to Vegas, and Jen

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Speaker 4: ends up at a Chippendale's show, Right, the other girls

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Speaker 4: decide that that's a really fun thing to do, And

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Speaker 4: what happens is Jen calls her husband to be like,

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Speaker 4: by the way, I'm at Chipendale's just being transparent, We're

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Speaker 4: meant to be having a bit of fun, and Zach

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Speaker 4: starts literally questioning her character. He says he doesn't want

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Speaker 4: a wife who would do that. I mean, at the

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Speaker 4: end of the day, One it wasn't her choice, and

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Speaker 4: two like your wife is literally telling you why I

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Speaker 4: don't you trust her? Anyway, that aside, The irony here

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Speaker 4: is that he actually was out gambling until one thirty am,

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Speaker 4: which is also a massive no no in their faith,

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Speaker 4: like they're not meant to gamble. But for me as

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Speaker 4: an outsider to see him have such a reaction when

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Speaker 4: he just wheezered his way onto a girl's trip and

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Speaker 4: then spent all of his time in Vegas gambling away

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Speaker 4: his money when she was literally out doing her job,

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Speaker 4: like she was at Chippendale's, yes, which is kind of like,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, like a Magic Men style show, Right,

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Speaker 4: She's at Chippendale's, but there's a whole camera crew there,

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Speaker 4: Like he would have known that a camera crew was

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Speaker 4: there filming her to make this show?

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Speaker 1: Like what's she going to do on TV?

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Speaker 4: Anyway, got lots of thoughts, But for him, it's not

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Speaker 4: enough that she was fully providing for his family.

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Speaker 1: She seems to.

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Speaker 4: Have to also placate his ego as well and put

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Speaker 4: up with the disrespect that he has for not only

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Speaker 4: her but Mum Talk, which is their sole income at

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Speaker 4: the moment.

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Speaker 1: For his family.

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Speaker 4: It's as though his sinning's okay, but like not hers,

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Speaker 4: even though she wasn't. The tension between I guess the

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Speaker 4: mum talk personas if we zoom out a little bit

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Speaker 4: and their real lives, as I said before, adds so

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Speaker 4: much drama to the show and I love it. But

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Speaker 4: while they uphold the values and faith and family online,

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Speaker 4: they're also navigating some pretty spicy personal scandals, like the

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Speaker 4: swinging controversy. I don't know if you guys are on TikTok,

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Speaker 4: I'm chronically online, so like, I was all across the

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Speaker 4: swinging controversy, and I'm sure you can do a little

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Speaker 4: bit of a deep dive if you're interested. But they

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Speaker 4: were also dealing with I guess, contradictions of promoting products

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Speaker 4: that don't necessarily align with their religious values, right, So

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Speaker 4: this was particularly poignant when Whitney was actually and Whitney's

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Speaker 4: a whole different story if we want to talk about her,

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Speaker 4: she deserves her own show. But Whitney was offered I

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Speaker 4: think it was twenty thousand dollars to post a single

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Speaker 4: photo promoting a sex toy on Instagram, which for some

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Speaker 4: people they'd be like great, Nor is that really aligns

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Speaker 4: with my brand.

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Speaker 1: But while that deal sounds.

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Speaker 4: Quite straightforward, all she had to do was post I

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Speaker 4: guess a photo and a caption. It stirred up a

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Speaker 4: really big internal conflict for her because she was like, well,

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Speaker 4: this is kind of against my faith. Like I grew

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Speaker 4: up in a really conservative Mormon family where topics like

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Speaker 4: sex are very taboo. It's not something that we're going

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Speaker 4: to talk to. And you can see like this internal

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Speaker 4: and external struggle where Whitney is grappling with the potential

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Speaker 4: backlash from her community and her family, and she even

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Speaker 4: asks them like what should I do? And ultimately they're like, ah,

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Speaker 4: that just feels like it's a little bit against your

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Speaker 4: values and what you do. But I mean, she takes

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Speaker 4: the cash, but it raises for me a deeper question

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Speaker 4: how does she balance her faith with the financial opportunities

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Speaker 4: that are coming from her influence a career, Like how

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Speaker 4: is she going to stay true to herself when she's

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Speaker 4: never actually managed finances before. On the show, she sought

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Speaker 4: advice from her mum and her sister and I guess, well,

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Speaker 4: Whitney was trying to justify it in a way you

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Speaker 4: could just tell, right she's justifying it. She's like, it

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Speaker 4: could be like so empowering, like it's a huge financial opportunity,

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Speaker 4: but just trying to frame it in a way that

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Speaker 4: convinces her mum and her sister. Her mum and her

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Speaker 4: sister are not convinced. Her sister actually questions if it

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Speaker 4: matches her platform and then points out that Whitney usually

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Speaker 4: promotes like really family friendly content, so you do really

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Speaker 4: want that? And I guess this conversation opens up a

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Speaker 4: much wider issue where Whitney reflects on how her mum

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Speaker 4: didn't teach her anything about these topics growing up, and

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Speaker 4: how she actually wants to use her platform to break

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Speaker 4: down these taboos, which is obviously not going to make

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Speaker 4: her mom very happy, which adds another layer of what

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Speaker 4: I would call internal conflict about blending business with faith

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Speaker 4: and how to stay authentic to who you are. But

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Speaker 4: the real empowerment here, and I guess everything put aside,

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Speaker 4: I find Whitney relatively problematic, but I guess the real

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Speaker 4: empowerment here is that Whitney, in this moment, has the

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Speaker 4: ability to choose, so whether she says yes or no

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Speaker 4: to this opportunity or other opportunities like that, the power

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Speaker 4: is entirely in her hands and financial independence is what

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Speaker 4: is giving her that freedom. And it's just kind of sexy.

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Speaker 4: So I guess what's the takeaway. Why did I want

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Speaker 4: to talk about this today? Well, I think the biggest

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Speaker 4: lesson when it comes to financial independence is financial independence opens.

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Speaker 1: Doors for you.

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Speaker 4: Whether you are navigating faith or family or personal relationships,

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Speaker 4: having control over your money means that you are able

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Speaker 4: to control your own life. The women on the Secret

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Speaker 4: Lives of Mormon Wives, they're redefining their roles at the moment.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they've already done it, but we get to

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Speaker 4: go along for the ride, and it is proof that

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Speaker 4: you can too. So whether it is leaving a really

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Speaker 4: difficult situation like a business or maybe simply having the

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Speaker 4: power to say no to someone, money is going to

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Speaker 4: give you the flexibility to live life on your own terms.

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Speaker 4: And I guess in Australia we are not quite mum

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Speaker 4: talk and do what I don't want to be. I'm

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Speaker 4: not very good at dancing. I think you would pay

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Speaker 4: not to see that. We don't have dancing, but we

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Speaker 4: do have a very beautiful community of our own, supportive

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Speaker 4: financially savvy women and You can join us if you

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Speaker 4: haven't already searched Sheese on the Money on Facebook. We

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Speaker 4: share tips and we share tricks and all of the

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Speaker 4: good stuff to help you crush your own money goals,

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Speaker 4: to create your own level of financial independence, irrespective of

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Speaker 4: where you're starting from, and we are your own squad

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Speaker 4: cheering on for you. And I wanted to talk about

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Speaker 4: that because I don't think that when we have been

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Speaker 4: watching the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, you really dig

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Speaker 4: deep into the money side of things, like obviously you're

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Speaker 4: like fire out like twenty thousand dollars to post about

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Speaker 4: a sex toy.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely I would do that, but.

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Speaker 4: These money conversations to run so deep, like money controls

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Speaker 4: the entire world, Like you could probably break down so

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Speaker 4: any Netflix series or so many Apple series on how

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Speaker 4: money controls the narrative of everything.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's the learning here. So I'm

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Speaker 1: going to go.

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Speaker 4: I hope you have the best week ever and I

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Speaker 4: will see you writing early on Monday for a money Darry,

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Speaker 4: have a good weekend.

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Speaker 1: My loves.

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Speaker 5: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general

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Speaker 5: in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's

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Speaker 5: On the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should

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Speaker 5: not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.

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Speaker 5: If you do choose to buy a financial product, read

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Speaker 5: the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice.

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Speaker 1: Tailored towards your needs.

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Speaker 5: Victoria Devine and She's on the Money are authorized representatives

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