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Speaker 1: Now in what is some pretty significant news I think

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Speaker 1: over the weekend, the Office of the Director of Public

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Speaker 1: Prosecutions has reportedly spent more than two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars on their failed attempt to convict the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Children's Commissioner, Colleen Gwynn on an abuse of office charge.

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Speaker 1: That is according to a report by Matt Cunningham from

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Speaker 1: Sky News Now. In a written response to questions from

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Speaker 1: the Independent MLA Robin Lamley, the Office of the DPP

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Speaker 1: confirmed that it had spent two hundred and sixty three

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars on the case, which was thrown out of

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Speaker 1: court in March before the defense had presented any evidence.

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Speaker 2: The Member Fararara.

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Speaker 1: Lun Robin Lamley joins me on the line from Alice

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Speaker 1: Springs this morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Robin, Good morning Katie, Robin. Thanks

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Speaker 2: so much for your time.

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Speaker 1: What questions did you ask about this situation with the

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Speaker 1: Children's Commissioner.

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Speaker 3: I just asked two very simple questions. I find the

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Speaker 3: more impool they are, the better the more likely you

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Speaker 3: are to get a response at all. Yeah, it's a

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Speaker 3: bit hit and miss, but I just asked how much

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Speaker 3: was spent by the Department of Public Prosecutions on the

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Speaker 3: Gwynn case and for a breakdown. I don't have that

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Speaker 3: breakdown in front of me, Katie, but the response was

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Speaker 3: very clear. They spent an enormous amount of money, over

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Speaker 3: two hundred and sixty thousand dollars. But keep in mind

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Speaker 3: that doesn't include wages, So the actual cost of this

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Speaker 3: case that they tried to wage against Colin Gwynn was

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Speaker 3: probably more in the realm of half a million dollars.

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Speaker 3: I would say at a guest.

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Speaker 1: To matter, Robin, is that something that you'll be asking

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Speaker 1: some further questions about during the estimates process, because as

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Speaker 1: you've just touched on there, I mean the police investigation,

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Speaker 1: it could have cost quite a substantial amount of money

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Speaker 1: and the wages.

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Speaker 3: Look, try, it doesn't always go to plan in estimates,

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Speaker 3: but I will certainly try. I actually think, Katie, this

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Speaker 3: whole debarcle, this whole case, should be the subject of

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Speaker 3: an inquiry, an official inquiry. There's something very wrong about

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Speaker 3: what happened here. I haven't followed it particularly closely, but

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Speaker 3: there's enough information in the public realm to suggest that

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Speaker 3: this case stinks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there are still so many questions that

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Speaker 1: really remain outstanding at this point in time.

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Speaker 2: But Robin, all the while, we've still got somebody.

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Speaker 1: Acting in the role, and plenty of people really wondering

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Speaker 1: what is going to be the future of the Children's Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: Colin Gwynn.

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Speaker 3: Well, yes, and I had the honor of working with

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Speaker 3: doctor Howard Barth years ago. He was our first Children's Commissioner.

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Speaker 3: I can't remember exactly when he started, but he was

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Speaker 3: in the job for around ten years, and he was

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Speaker 3: an academic. He was very clever, he was a specialist

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Speaker 3: in the area of child welfare, child mental health. He

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Speaker 3: really set the standard of this position very, very high.

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Speaker 3: And then we went to Colleen, who was not an

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Speaker 3: expert in children at all. Howard was a psychologist. And

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Speaker 3: now we are where we are, where we've got an

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Speaker 3: acting Children's Commissioner. I think she's a social worker. I

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Speaker 3: don't know that she's got any particular specialization in her area.

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Speaker 3: I just wonder about the whole status and integrity of

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Speaker 3: this very very important position as Children's Commissioner in a

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Speaker 3: jurisdiction known as the Northern Territory where we have the

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Speaker 3: highest rates of child abuse and neglect in the country,

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Speaker 3: the highest rates of out of home care in the country,

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Speaker 3: and we have for decades. This position is vital to

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Speaker 3: give us insight, understanding, and an extra layer of scrutiny

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Speaker 3: as to what the government and all the agencies that

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Speaker 3: are funded to look after children are doing. I don't

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Speaker 3: think the Office of Children of the Children's Commissioner is

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Speaker 3: functioning the way it was under doctor Howard Bath. Robert,

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Speaker 3: that's really really sad and concerning.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that there needs to be some kind

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Speaker 1: of inquiry here?

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Speaker 2: What needs to happen?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think the government needs to show some leadership.

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Speaker 3: I think they need to probably do their own internal inquiry.

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Speaker 3: We need the best possible person in that position. I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure that this I can't think of her name Huck.

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Speaker 3: I think is Nicole Huck. I don't know much about her,

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Speaker 3: so I won't be overly critical, but I think we

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Speaker 3: need an expert like doctor Howard Bath was to lead

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Speaker 3: us in a really high level discussion about the welfare

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Speaker 3: of children in the Northern Territory. And we haven't had that, Katie,

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Speaker 3: for a long long time. That concerns me. We used

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Speaker 3: to have it. We haven't got it now, what the

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Speaker 3: hell's going on? The government is responsible for making sure

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Speaker 3: that our government departments function at the highest level, and

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Speaker 3: it includes this very important office of Children's the Children's Commissioner.

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Speaker 1: Rob and I do want to move along because there has,

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Speaker 1: as we all know, been plenty of issues in Alice Springs.

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Speaker 1: They've been very well documented. Before I get into what

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Speaker 1: you are calling for, how has it been in Alice

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Speaker 1: over the recent days.

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Speaker 3: Look, crime is still a major problem. We are facing

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Speaker 3: a crime crisis. Things have improved, but crime is still

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Speaker 3: a major problem. We had crime stats come out a

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Speaker 3: few weeks ago for the twelve months ending at the

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Speaker 3: end of March twenty twenty three, and I did some

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Speaker 3: number crunch in Katie. We have in our springs twenty

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Speaker 3: percent more reported incidents of crime than in Darwin and

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Speaker 3: we have less than half the population. Yeah, that really

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Speaker 3: gives a bit of perspective of what we're facing here.

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Speaker 3: Things have improved slightly with the ban on takeaway alcohol

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Speaker 3: on Mondays and Tuesdays. There have been a significant difference

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Speaker 3: and improvement, but we have such a long way to go.

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Speaker 3: We can't sort of start celebrating and patting ourselves on

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Speaker 3: the back yet because our stats are still horrific compared

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Speaker 3: to in Australia pretty much.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is the thing.

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Speaker 1: So, Robin, I know that you have been advocating for

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Speaker 1: three things when it comes to alcohol policy for Alice

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Speaker 1: Springs moving forward. And I know that you know it's

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Speaker 1: not the answer to absolutely everything the alcohol situation, and

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Speaker 1: you know sorting that out, but it.

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Speaker 2: Would go a long way. What are you advocating for exactly?

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Speaker 3: Yes, Katie, you're right, and I put that in my

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Speaker 3: press release that I put out late last week that

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Speaker 3: alcohol restrictions are not a solution, but they give us

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Speaker 3: some peace and I think in a case like Alice

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Speaker 3: Springs that's really really important. Just a bit of a

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Speaker 3: reprieve for a couple of days a week is really important.

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Speaker 3: But look, I've come a long way. I started my

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Speaker 3: time as an elected member of this community back in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and four on council, so it's been almost

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Speaker 3: twenty years that I've been a part of the debate

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Speaker 3: on alcohol and alcohol strategies. So for me to come

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Speaker 3: to this point, Katie, is quite profound. It's in a

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Speaker 3: long road, but I support those two alcohol takeaway three

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Speaker 3: days a week in Alice Springs continuing permanently, if that's

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Speaker 3: the word you want to use, but into the future,

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Speaker 3: into the foreseeable future, that has made a difference. The

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Speaker 3: second thing I think we should be looking at is

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Speaker 3: on Sundays weirdly, and I can't even explain why there's

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Speaker 3: only two bottle shops in town that open in our

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Speaker 3: Springs on a Sunday, the Todd Tavern and the Gap View.

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Speaker 3: They are open from twelve to nine pm, which is

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Speaker 3: inconsistent with what we do pretty much every other day.

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Speaker 3: Normally we open it two and all the bottle shops

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Speaker 3: are open, and there's about ten of them. So I

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Speaker 3: think we should be looking at cutting the hours on

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Speaker 3: a Sunday, even halving them. It sounds reasonable to me.

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Speaker 3: But the third thing I'm advocating for is that the

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Speaker 3: town camps of Alice Springs remain permanently dry. We saw

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Speaker 3: the lifting of the Stronger Future alcohol bands from mid

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Speaker 3: the middle of last year to January this year, and

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Speaker 3: we saw absolute chaos in ten Domestic violence just was

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Speaker 3: out of control, and historically that the town camps have

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Speaker 3: been unfortunately the center of a lot of that violence

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Speaker 3: and they still are, so to put alcohol back into

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Speaker 3: those town camps under anti circumstance is a disaster. So

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Speaker 3: those three things, Katie, keep the two day a week

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Speaker 3: alcohol ban, take away alcohol ban in place, cut the

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Speaker 3: hours take away hours on a Sunday, and keep those

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Speaker 3: bands permanently in place for all the town camps.

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Speaker 2: Robin, what's the reaction been.

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Speaker 1: I've become well, and you know, like I guess that

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Speaker 1: there would be people in Alice Springs who agree with you.

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Speaker 1: Whatever can sort of minimize the impacts that you've got

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Speaker 1: there around crime but also the effects of alcohol issues.

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Speaker 1: What's been the feedback from the people of Alice Springs,

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Speaker 1: but particularly from those town camps following on from you

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Speaker 1: sort of calling for this on Friday.

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Speaker 3: Well, you don't hear much from the town camps. Tanguanjurra

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Speaker 3: Council is the council that represents the interests of the

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Speaker 3: town camps and the government's given them the contracts that

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Speaker 3: control the housing and the housing maintenance of the town camp.

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Speaker 3: So they're very closed and they don't do much media

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Speaker 3: at all. So I don't know what they're thinking. But

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Speaker 3: what I do know is that the government reimposed their restrictions,

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Speaker 3: the ban on alcohol in town camps back in February

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Speaker 3: last year, after the Prime Minister had to come into

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Speaker 3: town and tell them to do that. But it was

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Speaker 3: on the proviso that they could develop alcohol management plans

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Speaker 3: and have alcohol reinstated or the ability to drink alcohol

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Speaker 3: in those town camps reinstate, providing they came up with

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Speaker 3: alcohol management plans. I don't know what's going on. I

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Speaker 3: haven't heard anything. You don't hear much. They don't go

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Speaker 3: public internally. There might be a lot of work being done,

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Speaker 3: but I don't know, but I don't agree with that.

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Speaker 3: I think that the town camps, it's public housing in

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Speaker 3: certain areas, it's all public housing. It's government for housing.

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Speaker 3: They they're they're separate entities, but they're not. It's kind

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Speaker 3: of a weird setup. But you know, given the history

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Speaker 3: and the fact that they continue to be sadly hubs

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Speaker 3: of violence and alcohol fueled chaos and crime, rob you

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Speaker 3: can't ignore that. You can't ignore it is.

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Speaker 2: What you're calling for.

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Speaker 1: Race based policy.

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Speaker 3: It is race based policy. But what most Aboriginal people,

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Speaker 3: particularly the leaders across the Northern territory said when those

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Speaker 3: when that stronger futures race based policy when those alcohol

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Speaker 3: restrictions are the stronger futures were lifted. That yes, it's

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Speaker 3: a race based policy, but it's it's under the banner

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Speaker 3: of positive discrimination. It's about looking after and caring for

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Speaker 3: vulnerable people living on those communities that will be harmed

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Speaker 3: by alcohol. So under the definition provided by Aboriginal leaders

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Speaker 3: at the time, there's race based policies that are okay

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Speaker 3: and race based policies that aren't okay. And I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, if you think about how alcohol negatively impacts

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Speaker 3: particularly women and children and the elderly, then I think

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Speaker 3: it's reasonable to keep those restrictions in place in the

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Speaker 3: town camps of Alice Springs. I'm not going to talk

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Speaker 3: about beyond Alla Springs from an Alice Springs based member

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Speaker 3: of Parliament. I'm only concerned really about the welfare of

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Speaker 3: the people of my community, and keeping those bands in

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Speaker 3: place will mean that people are a hell of a

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Speaker 3: lot safer.

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Speaker 2: Robin.

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Speaker 1: Before I let you go this morning, I know that

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Speaker 1: there'd been some issues that you had raised in parliament

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Speaker 1: last time. It sat around vandalism to Alice Springs, to

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Speaker 1: the mosque in Alice Springs.

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Speaker 2: How are things going there?

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Speaker 3: Look, I haven't heard much over the last couple of weeks.

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Speaker 3: I think things had improved. It was funny because I

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Speaker 3: did ask the minister a question about what she was

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Speaker 3: doing and her she hadn't been updated, she hadn't been

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Speaker 3: given the latest report on what wasn't happening, and that

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Speaker 3: was that there wasn't anything happening. And of course she

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Speaker 3: then had to scuttle around and try and develop the plan,

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Speaker 3: which is what the people from the mosque were wanting

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Speaker 3: from her, which he did in the twenty four hours

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Speaker 3: forty eight hours later. So hopefully they are implementing the

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Speaker 3: plan that the minister finally came up with, and that

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Speaker 3: there has been an improvement. I'll check up on it.

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Speaker 3: The mosque isn't in my electorate, but i've you know,

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Speaker 3: Muslim people live right across the whole of Alice Springs

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Speaker 3: and have left them alone for a few weeks to

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Speaker 3: just to see what happened.

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Speaker 1: Ye. Fair enough, hey, Robin, Before I let you go,

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Speaker 1: you've also raised some concerns on the weekend around renal dialysis. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: you've said that it turns out the Northern Territory government's

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Speaker 1: now allocating twenty five point seven million dollars to build

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Speaker 1: a new renal dialysis unit at the Alice Springs Hospital.

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Speaker 1: But there's going to be no other services provided. Tell

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Speaker 1: me exactly what the go is here and what your

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Speaker 1: concerns are.

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Speaker 3: So in twenty nineteen, the federal government allocated twenty five

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Speaker 3: point seven million dollars for a new outpatient department for

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Speaker 3: the Alice Springs Hospital and at the time they said

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Speaker 3: it would include a broad range of our patient services.

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Speaker 3: The our patients department of the Alice Springs Hospital is

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Speaker 3: old and ugly and inefficient and it needs upgrading. At

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Speaker 3: the same time, the hub for renal dialysis in Alice

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Speaker 3: Springs is located in the suburb of Gillen. In my dilector,

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Speaker 3: Ara Laurin, the flind Drive renal dialysis unit is what

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Speaker 3: was in need of an urgent upgrade years ago. So

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Speaker 3: the government has done it, pulled a bit of a

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Speaker 3: swifty year. They're now relocating renal dialysis from a community

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Speaker 3: health based setting into the Alice Springs Hospital, using that

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Speaker 3: money to build a renal dialysis unit and not a

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Speaker 3: broad ranged our patient department as a reg' right.

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Speaker 2: Why is that what happened?

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Speaker 1: Like in the investigating that you've done. What's been the

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Speaker 1: reason given, Aie.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't think the government, the Northern Territory government

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Speaker 3: wanted to stump up for the millions of dollars it

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Speaker 3: will cost to upgrade the flind Drive Community renal dialysis unit.

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Speaker 3: So they're saving money. This is a This is a

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Speaker 3: means of saving money. There's no other reason for it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, what this will mean, Katie, is that hundreds

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Speaker 3: of people every day that now go to the Flynn

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Speaker 3: Drive renal dialysis unit, where there's plenty of parking, plenty

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Speaker 3: of space surrounded by parks in the middle of a suburb,

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Speaker 3: will now be coming in and out of an already overcrowded,

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Speaker 3: overburdened Alice Springs Hospital, an acute hospital setting for renal dialysis.

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Speaker 3: It's just bad planning. It's a bad decision. It's about

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Speaker 3: the Northern Territory government trying to save money at our

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Speaker 3: outpatient department. For the rest of us will remain the same. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: these are remote Aboriginal people, mainly people from the Bush.

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Speaker 3: They don't want to go into the Alice Springs Hospital

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Speaker 3: for anything. They like going to Flint. It's sort of

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Speaker 3: out in the open.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's comfortable.

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Speaker 1: It's a different kind of environment, I would imagine, and

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Speaker 1: that is my understanding of why that different sort of

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Speaker 1: renal dialysis service has been provided.

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Speaker 3: That's right, that's exactly where, all right, So I uncovered

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Speaker 3: that last week. I just happened to ask for a

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Speaker 3: briefing on what's going on. It's been four years the

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Speaker 3: funning was announced, and this is what I uncovered. We've

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Speaker 3: got to go digging to find out what this government's

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Speaker 3: really up to. Katie.

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Speaker 1: Yes, certainly, do keep asking those questions, Robin. I think

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Speaker 1: that you know, we certainly need it, no doubt. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 3: As always my pleasure, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Thank you