Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload the podcast last week Airline. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: TV Reload. My name's Benjamin Norris, and on this podcast
Speaker 1: I go behind the scenes with the biggest players in television.
Speaker 1: Each episode you will get a front row seat with
Speaker 1: content makers like executive producers, writers, editors and casting agents,
Speaker 1: plus the talent that we see on our screens. TV
Speaker 1: Reload reloads the shows that you are currently watching and
Speaker 1: gives you a better insight at our television industry and
Speaker 1: streaming services today. On the podcast, I have Natalie Bassingthwaye,
Speaker 1: who is one of the biggest all rounders when it
Speaker 1: comes to the arts. You would know her songs, seen
Speaker 1: her acting, bought her clothes, maybe even sat in her
Speaker 1: theater shows, but I doubt you've ever seen her like
Speaker 1: in her latest project on ABC Space twenty two. This
Speaker 1: show features seven Australians taking on specially designed workshops to
Speaker 1: see if that will improve their mental health struggles. Creativity
Speaker 1: help your well being is the question at hand. The
Speaker 1: show spans across ten days of creativity, to which it's
Speaker 1: creators call art on Prescription. It's an emotional ride and
Speaker 1: I will advise you to pack some tissues, but I
Speaker 1: swear you'll walk away from this show with a new
Speaker 1: perspective on mental health care. Maybe, like me, you will
Speaker 1: learn a few new things about yourself. Now we'll talk Jack,
Speaker 1: a Little Pill, her Neighbor's return, Rogue Traders, and this
Speaker 1: year's winter blockbuster Elvis directed by mister baz Lerman. However,
Speaker 1: let's get started with today's episode. I'd like to welcome
Speaker 1: Nat Bass to TV.
Speaker 2: Reload lots of different things going on in this show.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I do when I first
Speaker 1: meet people is ask them do you do anything creatively?
Speaker 2: You have to watch it to believe it.
Speaker 3: Over ten days, seven Australians from all walks of life
Speaker 3: will take part in a specially designed art workshop.
Speaker 2: At the core of it, it's a fly on the
Speaker 2: wall doopum entry to.
Speaker 3: Test whether immersing themselves in creativity can improve their mental
Speaker 3: well being.
Speaker 2: I had to literally walk away. I went into the
Speaker 2: room and I fell to the ground. Welcome to Space
Speaker 2: twenty two. I've kind of taken this mental ill health
Speaker 2: journey and it's part of me like it is part
Speaker 2: of me.
Speaker 1: Hi, Natalie, how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm great? How are you. You look cute.
Speaker 1: I really haven't done that much to get dressed up
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 2: This is my podcast here, it's cute. I like it.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: You start the show Space twenty two with an admission
Speaker 1: that I think will shock even the closest of friends
Speaker 1: and your fans, and that is your own admission of
Speaker 1: mental health struggle.
Speaker 2: I would have like six showers a day and kind
Speaker 2: of sit on the ground and put myself in the
Speaker 2: fetal position. I didn't know it was my mind. I
Speaker 2: just I didn't know what was happening.
Speaker 1: How hard was that to speak about that part of
Speaker 1: your own story publicly?
Speaker 2: Well? So funny because I think because I've lived with
Speaker 2: it for so long, it feels weird that no one
Speaker 2: knows about it, you know what I mean. I'm like,
Speaker 2: what do you mean? No one knows? And I didn't
Speaker 2: necessarily think officially planned to talk about I felt fine
Speaker 2: to talk about it, and I have so in the
Speaker 2: last sort of five years. But I think when I
Speaker 2: was asked to do the show, I did it because
Speaker 2: I felt comfortable now talking about it, and I started
Speaker 2: to get sick and tired of everyone pretending that life
Speaker 2: is so great and I'm amazing and how beautiful am
Speaker 2: I look at all these amazing things I own, and
Speaker 2: you know, social media is just like this. Ah. You know.
Speaker 2: I just was like, I'm over it, and so it
Speaker 2: wasn't actually that hard to talk about it in the end.
Speaker 2: Like I think five years ago, I was really nervous
Speaker 2: about saying it out loud because of the fear of
Speaker 2: what people would think of me, you know, that I
Speaker 2: wasn't strong enough, or what's wrong with you? Or just
Speaker 2: the stigma like would they employ me? Like maybe I
Speaker 2: wouldn't even employed because I'm two bonkers, But yeah, I
Speaker 2: have realized that I am a bit bonkers and that's
Speaker 2: what makes me me, and so I've kind of taken
Speaker 2: this mental ill health journey and it's part of me,
Speaker 2: like it is part of me. So I will always
Speaker 2: work on being a better person, and I'll always work
Speaker 2: on calming myself down when it's all too much. And
Speaker 2: I'm in a really good space right now. So I
Speaker 2: felt like going into a show like that was exciting
Speaker 2: for me because I was like, Wow, I had a
Speaker 2: few very close people go through similar things to what
Speaker 2: I had been through, and I was like, uh uh,
Speaker 2: You'll be fine. They're like, no, I can't. I just
Speaker 2: know you're gonna be fine. I'm telling you I've been
Speaker 2: exactly where you were. And then when they started their medication,
Speaker 2: it can be terrifying because it really feels. I mean,
Speaker 2: I've had friends who they don't feel anything when they're gone,
Speaker 2: and some friends who feel really like fragile. I felt
Speaker 2: really it was I didn't like it, and I was like, whoa,
Speaker 2: is this how I'm going to feel because this isn't working.
Speaker 2: But then when you go on it, it's just balancing
Speaker 2: out all the things in your brain. Once it plataued,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, I feel like me.
Speaker 2: So that was really strange. So I think that I
Speaker 2: felt really comfortable talking about it, and I clearly do now,
Speaker 2: like jeez, like spilling it all out to the world.
Speaker 1: Well, it's beautiful, Nat, because you know when you I mean,
Speaker 1: we're both in our forties now, but you know, isn't
Speaker 1: it funny that we can now talk about this sort
Speaker 1: of stuff And you know, when you're younger, you don't
Speaker 1: feel like you can share certain things because I think
Speaker 1: for me, we often feel like we can't talk about
Speaker 1: our feelings because we tell ourselves you know what I
Speaker 1: feel doesn't matter, or that other people have it harder.
Speaker 1: You know, what was your inner saboteur saying to you,
Speaker 1: like what was happening inside your head that stopped you
Speaker 1: from talking publicly about this?
Speaker 2: I genuinely thought that. I mean, no one talked about
Speaker 2: it when I first went through it, you know, like
Speaker 2: it was not a thing like I didn't even know
Speaker 2: what was going on me. I was like, what's going on?
Speaker 2: Like I was twenty something, early twenties. I honestly didn't
Speaker 2: know what it was. So it wasn't even like I
Speaker 2: was sabotaging myself back then. I just didn't know what
Speaker 2: was wrong with me. I thought like I felt isolated
Speaker 2: and alone and scared and frightened, and you know, through
Speaker 2: therapy at first, then medication, and then constantly looking at
Speaker 2: myself over the years, the sub Yeah, I don't know
Speaker 2: if I ever sab that. I don't know if that
Speaker 2: that was in my head. It was just more a
Speaker 2: fear of what people would think of me, you know,
Speaker 2: and that I might not get a job again. And
Speaker 2: now I just think that's kind of crazy, because I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: why not, Like I'm a great person, I'm a kind person.
Speaker 2: My husband doesn't think I'm funny, but I think it's
Speaker 2: really funny.
Speaker 1: No, you are funny. That's one of my favorite things
Speaker 1: about you is that you're funny because you take the
Speaker 1: pairs like you don't take yourself too seriously. You know,
Speaker 1: you're kind of one of those delicious friends. It's like,
Speaker 1: come here and I'm going to tell you the crazy
Speaker 1: stuff about myself, which I love about you, you know,
Speaker 1: in your own words. How do you explain the concept
Speaker 1: of space twenty two?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Space twenty two takes seven very very different Australians
Speaker 2: from all walks of life, going through quite different things,
Speaker 2: but they have that kind of connection that they've all
Speaker 2: been through or are still going through their own mental
Speaker 2: health struggles and like I'm talking from PTSD to you know,
Speaker 2: childhood traumas to suicidal tendencies, like some pretty heavy stuff,
Speaker 2: and they've all been through their own things over the
Speaker 2: course of their lives and we're trying to see through.
Speaker 2: The Black Dog Institute is also like monitoring their emotions
Speaker 2: and everything from the get go to the end and
Speaker 2: just to see what happens, but to see where the
Speaker 2: art and creativity can have a place in their mental
Speaker 2: you know well, being like whether it can help heal
Speaker 2: old wounds or whether it can help now and in
Speaker 2: the future, so that they can take these tools with
Speaker 2: them and be able to use them in their everyday life.
Speaker 2: And also the other thing I loved about it is
Speaker 2: that outside of this, we're hoping that people will take
Speaker 2: something themselves that they can use into their own lives.
Speaker 2: So there's lots of different things going on in this show,
Speaker 2: but at the core of it, it's a fly on
Speaker 2: the wall documentary. It's very powerful, it's very raw and real.
Speaker 2: You'll definitely need some tissues, but you'll feel your heart
Speaker 2: will just be like, oh, you know, like it's a
Speaker 2: very very special show.
Speaker 4: My brother's name is Jack and he was twenty five
Speaker 4: when he died. He was returning from a trip to
Speaker 4: Europe in twenty fourteen. He was on flight MPG seventeen
Speaker 4: when it was it was shot down. So yeah, that
Speaker 4: his death just changed my life completely and permanent.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: For me, there was some of oginal discomfort that I
Speaker 1: felt at the start of watching the show, which I
Speaker 1: think is normal because that can be when you feel seen,
Speaker 1: you know, or this is cutting too close to your
Speaker 1: own backstory. You know, I've got my own backstory with
Speaker 1: depression and anxiety. I hope when people first come across
Speaker 1: this that they feel like that that's perfectly normal, that's
Speaker 1: sort of the that's you to the content, yeah, and
Speaker 1: that they're not alone.
Speaker 2: Like I feel like I want people to go, wow,
Speaker 2: that is me or I know or so not only
Speaker 2: for themselves, but even for their family members that have
Speaker 2: never experienced what this feels like. And you know how
Speaker 2: it's so hard to explain. I'm like, it's kind of
Speaker 2: like you're in a vortex and like everyone's negative and
Speaker 2: like you can't be positive. I'm like, I know how
Speaker 2: it feels, but just word it doesn't really sometimes make sense.
Speaker 2: And so I hope family members and friends can watch
Speaker 2: and go, oh wow, I didn't know that that's how
Speaker 2: you felt or that's what you were going through, and
Speaker 2: this is how I can support you as well.
Speaker 1: I thought was What was strange was that I watched
Speaker 1: it in I watched the first five episodes in one block,
Speaker 1: and I obviously, you know, had the luxury and the
Speaker 1: time that I set aside to do that. But I
Speaker 1: started writing stuff down after watching the show, and I
Speaker 1: started unnothing things about myself, and I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: the symptoms of my depression and anxiety, the stuff that's
Speaker 1: really visible to other people are actually really ugly about myself,
Speaker 1: you know, drinking or lying or being unreliable. So you know,
Speaker 1: it's quite frightening that I repel people at times when
Speaker 1: I really need them the most.
Speaker 2: I didn't see that from you. I don't know what
Speaker 2: you're talking about. You're such a lovely human like I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at going, what is this just your like
Speaker 2: devil on your back that thinks that because I don't
Speaker 2: think that.
Speaker 1: I think we're all so hard on ourselves, aren't we?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: That is what happens to me is that at my
Speaker 1: worst stages of my own struggle, it is usually have
Speaker 1: these really gross things about myself. But what was beautiful
Speaker 1: about this show was allowing me to understand that about myself,
Speaker 1: which I felt was this amazing healing. It's almost like
Speaker 1: when you think if we thought about growing up and
Speaker 1: we'd never talked about this, the idea that something on
Speaker 1: television like this could be so visceral and so helpful
Speaker 1: is like three D television, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, oh you just gave me goosies. I agree
Speaker 2: like it. It's so profound, Like everyone's like, what do
Speaker 2: they get out of it? I'm like, you just you
Speaker 2: have to watch it to believe it. Like I was
Speaker 2: in the space, I was like looking at Ray when
Speaker 2: he came in and he didn't want to cut you know,
Speaker 2: give me a hard which is fine, but being very
Speaker 2: shut off and very like, oh no, I don't kind
Speaker 2: of do that, and then who are you? Ray? At
Speaker 2: the end, I just kept going, what is going on?
Speaker 2: I can't even deal with how I mean. For those
Speaker 2: who don't know, Ray is the sixty six year old
Speaker 2: retiree who has a very like scientist like that's just
Speaker 2: how he works. He does not into all this Artivardi
Speaker 2: fairies down See, he wasn't on board, but he wanted
Speaker 2: to try something because he's tried everything, Like he's tried
Speaker 2: every therapist, he's tried groups, he's tried medication for days
Speaker 2: and like just nothing had worked for him. Like he
Speaker 2: one of the things that he says killed me, like
Speaker 2: it hurts so much, And he said, you know, I
Speaker 2: wake up in the morning sometimes and I'm a bit
Speaker 2: bummed that I'm still alive. I'm like what the hell,
Speaker 2: how can anyone say that about themselves? Like, and this
Speaker 2: is how low he was, you know, and just to
Speaker 2: see through togetherness, through play, through stuff that he'd never
Speaker 2: tried before. He literally came to life, like he just
Speaker 2: came to life.
Speaker 1: You know. And those interactions between you and all the
Speaker 1: participants is so raw at times, and knowing you and
Speaker 1: the way you connect with people like I've been I've
Speaker 1: been lucky to watch that over decades. The way you
Speaker 1: connect to people is really wholeheartedly, you know. And I
Speaker 1: was wondering, you know, was it really hard and was
Speaker 1: this the hardest project to work on, because it would
Speaker 1: have because it takes so much out of you.
Speaker 2: You know. The weird thing was is that after the
Speaker 2: first day or and my husband and said, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I've just found my purpose, Like this is what all
Speaker 2: of this has meant, you know, Like everything I've been
Speaker 2: through is meant that this is why I was supposed
Speaker 2: to have gone through all that is for this moment.
Speaker 2: I loved it so much. But there was a point where,
Speaker 2: you know, in my own mental health journey in the
Speaker 2: last few years, had that breakdown a few years ago.
Speaker 2: It was horrific terrifying all the things that came out
Speaker 2: of it, and I released things that no longer served me.
Speaker 2: I closed down businesses. I just had to, like it
Speaker 2: was all too much, you know. It was just like
Speaker 2: trying to be all the things, and I just released Release, Release,
Speaker 2: moved to Byron Bay, like got rid of the city
Speaker 2: life and all of that. And I feel like Nazi
Speaker 2: on a train of thought. Okay, So I said to myself,
Speaker 2: I can't do so much at once, Like I really
Speaker 2: need to be mindful of taking on too much. So
Speaker 2: I said, I'm never working like this again. And I
Speaker 2: planned to do that, but during the filming of the show,
Speaker 2: I was also rehearsing for Jag a Little Pill, which
Speaker 2: wasn't supposed to happen, but because COVID everything overlapped, and
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, I was doing two and
Speaker 2: you've seen the show. It is heavy and very emotional
Speaker 2: but beautiful and like, oh, you know, so I literally
Speaker 2: was filming this show in the mornings from six to
Speaker 2: four and then going into rehearse I was broken, and
Speaker 2: because I'm very empathetic, I would go in and I'd
Speaker 2: be with you know, all the crew on Space twenty
Speaker 2: two and like feeling all their stuff and their pains,
Speaker 2: and then going in at night and feeling my character's pain.
Speaker 2: I was like one day I was I became one
Speaker 2: of the participants because I got to do one of
Speaker 2: the artworks, and then I was just like I had
Speaker 2: to literally walk away. I went into the room and
Speaker 2: I fell to the ground and I was hysterically crying.
Speaker 2: And it was a moment that I again hadn't had
Speaker 2: for a long time, like this isn't me anymore. I
Speaker 2: don't do this anymore. But I did the thing that
Speaker 2: I said that I wouldn't do again, Like I took
Speaker 2: on too much. It was emotionally too much for me
Speaker 2: to take and physically mentally emotionally, Yeah, so happened again.
Speaker 2: There's that little thing oral in it's ugly head, you.
Speaker 1: Know, like damn, but now that's so you like you've
Speaker 1: always been like that, and you know, you'd be like
Speaker 1: I'm singing and I've got an album out, but I'm
Speaker 1: also doing this brand new acting role and I'm playing
Speaker 1: this person or you know, I'm and then you're also
Speaker 1: always trying to do a lot for the people around you,
Speaker 1: which I also think can be just as exhausting as
Speaker 1: a really good job is you know for you being
Speaker 1: a mother, being a you know, a wife. You know,
Speaker 1: you've got all these other things on top of you.
Speaker 1: And I will say, Jack a little Pill. I saw
Speaker 1: it four times so quick playing that show times.
Speaker 2: I can't believe that.
Speaker 1: But it was so hard to think because I know
Speaker 1: the way in which you do your acting is because
Speaker 1: I've read about it and I've heard you talk about it.
Speaker 1: Is you know, you're going through the motions with this,
Speaker 1: with these characters, and that character you're playing on Jago
Speaker 1: Little Pill has this trajectory that is so quotent.
Speaker 2: It was, but at the same time it was so therapeutic,
Speaker 2: you know. I think sometimes when we have mental ill
Speaker 2: health things some of them are childhood trauma, some are
Speaker 2: other people's things, Like this is what I'm learning about ancestry,
Speaker 2: some ancestral trauma. I'm like, dude, what you know, Like,
Speaker 2: I'm learning so much about our brain and the neuroplasticity
Speaker 2: of what we can achieve if we you know, they
Speaker 2: say repetition, and like if you do something for twenty
Speaker 2: eight days that you can we can literally we we
Speaker 2: rewire our brains, you know, Like I just I find
Speaker 2: all of that fascinating. So I did, you know, go
Speaker 2: through Jagged as well, and just when I'm just going
Speaker 2: to go in there and be this person, come out
Speaker 2: the other end and show everyone that that's possible too.
Speaker 2: It's therapeutic, it is.
Speaker 1: I mean, this program is such a great initiative by
Speaker 1: the ABC, and you know, my hat is so off
Speaker 1: to them. How did you find yourself involved with Space
Speaker 1: twenty two?
Speaker 2: I got the email. My manager sent me this email
Speaker 2: saying there's a probe this program. Are you interested? And
Speaker 2: when I read it, I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: I have to do this show, Like it just all
Speaker 2: made sense. And then I said, yep, yep, I'm in,
Speaker 2: and she goes, oh, no, it's not an offer. They
Speaker 2: just want it off. You're interested. I was like, what, Like, no,
Speaker 2: I have to do this show, you know, And so
Speaker 2: much so that when then I did an interview with them,
Speaker 2: and I was pushing hard, like guys, like, this is
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to be this person. I've never done that
Speaker 2: in my life, but so much so that because of COVID,
Speaker 2: Jagged got pushed back and then got pushed forward, and
Speaker 2: I almost had to choose whether to do this or Jagged,
Speaker 2: and I you know, Jagged has been alight like a
Speaker 2: lan it like to go to New York and to
Speaker 2: you know, work with the American creators beyond you know,
Speaker 2: in Broadway like all of that, go to the chiny
Speaker 2: Wards or do Space twenty two. And I was like,
Speaker 2: I think I have to do Space twenty two. Like
Speaker 2: that's where my heart was saying. I think that's what
Speaker 2: I need to do right now. And anyway the stars
Speaker 2: aligned somehow it or work together and I did both
Speaker 2: but at the same time, which wasn't you know again,
Speaker 2: let's not do that much? Wait at the same time
Speaker 2: ever again watch this space? Are we talking to you?
Speaker 2: In a few years you'll be like, and I did
Speaker 2: it again.
Speaker 1: You will be by that stage writing a musical and
Speaker 1: staring at it or like stop a Rocketman version of
Speaker 1: Natalie Bassingthwaite's life. Still no, but still, you know, I
Speaker 1: think it's the right time, in the right place. And
Speaker 1: I think for you, you know, this kind of a
Speaker 1: job has manifested itself because it would be so hard
Speaker 1: to find someone do what you do throughout the process
Speaker 1: of this show, and you would need to be vulnerable,
Speaker 1: you would need to be able to understand it, and
Speaker 1: then the empathy that needs to come with surrounding yourself
Speaker 1: with people who you know are a little damaged as well.
Speaker 1: There's a lot to juggle. What sort of input did
Speaker 1: you have though, Were you allowed to work with the
Speaker 1: creators of the show and say what about this?
Speaker 2: Like I didn't, you know? Like I just went in there.
Speaker 2: Initially I was just host. I was like, what do
Speaker 2: you want me to be? And I knew I wanted
Speaker 2: to be a part of it because I was interested
Speaker 2: in the psychology behind it and also tools for me
Speaker 2: and everyone else I know and all the people that
Speaker 2: are going through hard places. And it ended up being
Speaker 2: me sharing me more. And I guess because I feel,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm quite an empathetic person, then I'm feeling
Speaker 2: everyone else.
Speaker 1: Was it rewarding though, to know that you were adding
Speaker 1: to such an important conversation that hasn't been anything much
Speaker 1: like this on Telly before.
Speaker 2: I still feel like I'm reaping the rewards, Like I've
Speaker 2: spoken to so many people about this show, and the
Speaker 2: overwhelming response has been so beautiful and moving because everyone
Speaker 2: is either going through something or know someone who's going
Speaker 2: through something. You know, like I had a friend commit
Speaker 2: suicide and it was horrific, and I don't want to
Speaker 2: see that happen to anyone anymore. It shouldn't be happening anymore.
Speaker 2: It's not okay, and it is okay to not be okay,
Speaker 2: but for people to take you know, that far, it's
Speaker 2: it's we need more support and we need more facilitators
Speaker 2: for one of a better word, Like there's one thing
Speaker 2: that happened throughout the course of filming, was you know,
Speaker 2: because it's a fly on the wall documentary, I think
Speaker 2: you saw that Neil had a panic attack at one point,
Speaker 2: and then I think, you know, Tracy was having a
Speaker 2: panic attack, and they could get therapy in the moment, Like,
Speaker 2: no one who can do that? You have to wait
Speaker 2: six months to get in and then it's seven million dollars.
Speaker 2: You know, it's too expensive. You don't get the help
Speaker 2: when you need it. There's no like, where is the support?
Speaker 2: So I'm hoping that the show and it was one
Speaker 2: of them the biggest dreams of creator and who was like,
Speaker 2: I really, you know, want to tell this story, but
Speaker 2: I and find out this information, but I also want
Speaker 2: to give people at home the tools to be able
Speaker 2: to use like in the moment, and that doesn't cost
Speaker 2: like the world. You don't have to wait for that therapist,
Speaker 2: and sometimes you need the therapist and the medication and
Speaker 2: the tool, you know, like it's not we're also not
Speaker 2: going this is, you know, a prescription to not have medication.
Speaker 2: It's like each to their own. I still take medication.
Speaker 2: Tried to get off it didn't really work, but I
Speaker 2: also still I don't just rely on that. I still
Speaker 2: have to do all the things to be okay. I
Speaker 2: have to do them otherwise I'm not okay.
Speaker 1: But I think this sort of prescription of using creativity
Speaker 1: is just a part of something that can help the
Speaker 1: mechanics of getting to being better. And I think that's
Speaker 1: the discovery of this show is seeing how that is
Speaker 1: actually making an effect. And I think you know from you,
Speaker 1: you know, like things have happened to you in your
Speaker 1: life to give you the skill set to be exactly
Speaker 1: where you are right now, and that that's why you're
Speaker 1: on the show. And we hate to think of it
Speaker 1: like that. I mean, I lost my father's suicide and
Speaker 1: I and I spent so long that wow with that
Speaker 1: trying to work out where to place it in my
Speaker 1: life and now it's it's come back to be able
Speaker 1: to help me with other people, you know. And so
Speaker 1: while things can be really hard with wearing our scars,
Speaker 1: you know, and we're able to help others, which I
Speaker 1: think is important.
Speaker 2: A lot of them, the participants said the same thing.
Speaker 2: You know, they're hoping to do something like this to
Speaker 2: shine a light on it so that people. None of
Speaker 2: us want anyone to feel alone. I feel like that
Speaker 2: they don't have anyone. I'm really lucky. I've got a
Speaker 2: great family, I've got you know, great friends. Not everyone
Speaker 2: has that, you know, they don't have that. And what
Speaker 2: do you do if you don't have that? Where do
Speaker 2: you go to? So this program, you know, this experiment,
Speaker 2: this experience will like I know it's going to change people.
Speaker 2: I just know it in my heart. Like I said,
Speaker 2: I was like, would I that? Or should have go
Speaker 2: to New York to the Tonys and work with Diane
Speaker 2: paul As. I was like, I think I want to
Speaker 2: do Space twenty two? Like that's weird. What happened. She's
Speaker 2: nearly forty seven, that's what happened. She's good, mature, but
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: So with that American accent, can I just say it's
Speaker 1: so stressed with any of my friends who are actors
Speaker 1: doing accents and your accent and Jack a little pill
Speaker 1: is so good, Like it's so good, it's so amaz anyway,
Speaker 1: you know, unlike a lot of people, you've been killing
Speaker 1: it for over two decades. You know, who are those
Speaker 1: people you know that have been your biggest champions. Who's
Speaker 1: there to help you along the way to do all
Speaker 1: of that?
Speaker 2: Well, someone who's no longer with us was like he
Speaker 2: was my manager, Mark Burne. He was with me from
Speaker 2: the beginning for sixteen years, sixteen of those, you know,
Speaker 2: almost two decades, and he was like a mentor, a brother.
Speaker 2: I mean, if he wasn't gay, we'd probably be lovers,
Speaker 2: you know, like he he just we just together. We
Speaker 2: were like, oh like that, you know, and we could
Speaker 2: make anything happen, and we were always excited and we
Speaker 2: had each other's backs. And the next phase of my
Speaker 2: falling apart was around his death because it was so
Speaker 2: sudden and trying to come to terms with that and
Speaker 2: then covering it up with other stuff and burying it
Speaker 2: and then it needing to come out, and that's when
Speaker 2: the breakdown happened. Right, So all that's that's that kind
Speaker 2: of full picture story. So him, definitely. I mean I
Speaker 2: have the most beautiful friends and the most beautiful family.
Speaker 2: Like my best friend Todd and I went to school
Speaker 2: when we were five, Like we talk almost daily. You
Speaker 2: know who I'm talking about. He is like my biggest fan.
Speaker 2: He's been there from day dot. You know, he was
Speaker 2: Peter Pan. I was Tinkerbell in that year five production
Speaker 2: still to this day. And yeah, I mean, I have gorgeous,
Speaker 2: gorgeous people in my life that I'm so grateful for
Speaker 2: all the time.
Speaker 1: I think it's I mean, it's the laws of attraction, Nat,
Speaker 1: I think you've attracted people like that. I had the
Speaker 1: privilege to hang out with you and Todd the other day,
Speaker 1: and it's so funny because no matter what has happened,
Speaker 1: you guys are still kind of very young at that
Speaker 1: and it was fun, I.
Speaker 2: Know, so playful, like we are very childlike and hopefully
Speaker 2: will always maintain that even when we're mellow fifteen.
Speaker 1: Just don't tell people because you both don't really look
Speaker 1: at anyway. I was going to say what has been
Speaker 1: because I can think of what they would be, But
Speaker 1: what is your biggest achievement? Like what do you think
Speaker 1: has been a project you've worked on that is something
Speaker 1: that still stays in your mind. You think, God, I
Speaker 1: can't believe I managed to pull.
Speaker 2: That off so professionally. Then professionally, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: don't know, like I just I mean one of the
Speaker 2: first first job was getting Rent the Musical and there
Speaker 2: were like six thousand people auditioned. Todd actually came back
Speaker 2: from New York and said, I've just seen this show,
Speaker 2: so you have to audition for Maureen. This is you.
Speaker 2: And I went along with every you know, every man
Speaker 2: and his dog at the auditions. I lined up at
Speaker 2: can Sellers, went out there. I mean, I think the
Speaker 2: audition was about seven months and like in Australia and
Speaker 2: New Zealand, twenty two people got in it. Like that
Speaker 2: was pretty mind blowing because that was like the first thing.
Speaker 2: But it also showcased to me that, you know, I
Speaker 2: had auditioned for so many things before and I just
Speaker 2: got no, no, no, And I was like, what's wrong
Speaker 2: with me?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: You know? But really I didn't put the effort in.
Speaker 2: I was just like I just wanted a job and
Speaker 2: I thought it'd be cool to be in musical theater.
Speaker 2: Because they did all the things that I loved, singing, dancing,
Speaker 2: and acting, but he didn't really love the shows. I
Speaker 2: just wanted a job, and whereas this one, I was like,
Speaker 2: I love this show, Like I have to do this show.
Speaker 2: So there was like a whole new drive and a
Speaker 2: direction of like I researched who the director was, who
Speaker 2: the producers were, what they were looking for, like who
Speaker 2: got passed, why they got cut everything. So it's it
Speaker 2: really set me off on a new, you know, way,
Speaker 2: or a new path to go. You don't just go.
Speaker 2: I mean there's two trains of thought. You can just
Speaker 2: go for everything and hope you get something, or go
Speaker 2: for everything because you get better anyway. But I'm like,
Speaker 2: I only really want to go for it if I
Speaker 2: really want it, or if I really want it, I
Speaker 2: mean I'll really go for it, you know, Like it's
Speaker 2: just that's it for me. I'm like, give it everything
Speaker 2: you've got. But also if you don't get it, then
Speaker 2: you can't fall to pieces, because shit happens.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that there's ever been what's a job?
Speaker 1: I mean, you're just about to work with work with Aslaman,
Speaker 1: You're like, what's the job that you've gone for, that
Speaker 1: you've never that you didn't get, like come on, look,
Speaker 1: oh my god.
Speaker 2: So many. I remember actually when I was in LA
Speaker 2: and I was auditioning. It's just for a job for
Speaker 2: like CSI or something, And I went into the room
Speaker 2: and this is the funniest thing. I'm like, we're supposed
Speaker 2: to be actors anyway. There were like one hundred girls
Speaker 2: that had long blonde hair that looked like me. I
Speaker 2: was like, what is this? Like, we're not are we
Speaker 2: cut out? So we barbied it. Look like what is this?
Speaker 2: Aren't we actors? It's like, no, you can only come
Speaker 2: if you blonde, because we only want to blonde. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I can dye my hair, i can wear a wig.
Speaker 2: Like I was just like, what the hell is this process?
Speaker 2: Yeap didn't get that one. To be honest, didn't really
Speaker 2: mind because I was just so like, it was so
Speaker 2: bizarre at how the whole thing worked. What didn't intrigue
Speaker 2: me at all?
Speaker 1: Well, Jack a Little Pill, as we said, well I
Speaker 1: was talking about before. It's my favorite musical of alls
Speaker 1: all time. Saw four times in Melbourne.
Speaker 2: Swallow What a jagged little pit?
Speaker 1: If you so swimming in your stomach wait on to
Speaker 1: Was that just say.
Speaker 2: You love you?
Speaker 4: Cry culoru?
Speaker 1: What was it like that seeing the words of Alanis Morrissett.
Speaker 1: What was Was it a surreal moment to breathe, you know,
Speaker 1: life into the lyrics and ideas of someone that you
Speaker 1: had admired for so long.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, one hundred percent. And also I felt he
Speaker 2: is my hippie lala world. But empathetically or spiritually, I
Speaker 2: felt connected to people who have passed, people who are present,
Speaker 2: people who were in the crowd, like I feel when
Speaker 2: I'm performing that material on that stage, not only connected
Speaker 2: to Alanas, but connected to humans in these moments of trauma,
Speaker 2: and it like it can be traumatic. At first, I
Speaker 2: was like, oh my gosh, I don't think I could
Speaker 2: do this for very long. Like I would wake up
Speaker 2: feeling a little abused, like in like the most like
Speaker 2: genuinely I was like, oh my gosh, I feel you know,
Speaker 2: overwhelmingly exhausted on a whole other world, on whole other level.
Speaker 2: So and it took me a bit to kind of
Speaker 2: get through not feeling so not taking what I was
Speaker 2: performing on stage home with me and being able to
Speaker 2: go okay, you know, like I'm still exhausted when I
Speaker 2: do the show, Like I'm going back to do the
Speaker 2: show in Sydney because I'm excited, but I can deal
Speaker 2: with it better. That makes sense.
Speaker 1: I'm scared for you because I feel like I know
Speaker 1: what you went through all the time to do that show,
Speaker 1: and then now you've had the break. It must be
Speaker 1: kind of a little bit sickening to know that you've
Speaker 1: been pulled back into it again. I mean obviously no,
Speaker 1: I mean, did Alanis teach you anything herself? We were
Speaker 1: able to get any advice? I mean, what have you
Speaker 1: been able to take away the most from this process
Speaker 1: so far?
Speaker 2: Unfortunately not with Alanis. I wish, like, how incredible would
Speaker 2: that be? Apparently she's touring and slowly this year though,
Speaker 2: so that would be pretty wild. I've taken on what
Speaker 2: have I taken on with this role, Like I've taken
Speaker 2: on human behavior and human connection and human trauma and
Speaker 2: hopefully it heals people. You know it also from people listening,
Speaker 2: they're like, wow, this is intense. I never want to
Speaker 2: watch the show, but it is so incredibly moving at
Speaker 2: the end, and you're like, oh, you know, like there's
Speaker 2: this rush of like the responses that we were getting from, Like,
Speaker 2: so this is what happens. Do you ever get this,
Speaker 2: like when you start and you can't talk. I feel
Speaker 2: like I empathize with other people who can't speak up
Speaker 2: about their truth. Oh she's so spiritual now she's lived
Speaker 2: at Byron. Anyway, so many people come backstage and tell
Speaker 2: us like things that they've been through and that how
Speaker 2: much it's helped them by watching this show as well.
Speaker 2: And look, yes it's exhausting, but I think the rewards
Speaker 2: outweigh the exhaustion. And I am going to go into
Speaker 2: the next part of the season not doing the full
Speaker 2: eight shows because I have two kids, I live in Byron.
Speaker 2: It's just it's not workable or manageable for me to
Speaker 2: do the whole thing. But I will be doing like
Speaker 2: selected dates so that my body be so traumatized and
Speaker 2: my family will be a little bit more together.
Speaker 1: Well, from the audience perspective, I reckon watching that show.
Speaker 1: I reckon. I sound so Australian, I reckon, Yeah, But
Speaker 1: it was I saw it like the first when it opened,
Speaker 1: and then I watched it in other states of like
Speaker 1: having a few wines. It was weird. There was one
Speaker 1: time that I watched it with no alcohol, and it
Speaker 1: was the weirdest natural rush because you're right, we were
Speaker 1: talking about it in a really hectic state. But the
Speaker 1: release that you got being a part of that audience,
Speaker 1: it's kind of reminds you of my live theater is
Speaker 1: so important because somehow that show is so all inclusive, like.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's the connection of everybody, you know, like
Speaker 2: everybody again a bit like Space twenty two. Everyone is connected.
Speaker 2: You have someone you know who's been through blah blah
Speaker 2: blah my mom, you know, like you can just kick
Speaker 2: going my mom, my dad, my sister, and my brother,
Speaker 2: my auntie and my uncle's oh my friend, like you
Speaker 2: just like that's why people saw it like it was
Speaker 2: so bizarre, were like this is like you. Four times
Speaker 2: I had someone say I keep this my twelfth time.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what do you mean. We've only been here
Speaker 2: for twelve weeks, You've come once a week. Like it
Speaker 2: just affected people in such a profound way. And yeah,
Speaker 2: I actually I just feel I just felt like quite
Speaker 2: joyous because I was like, Yay, this is like the
Speaker 2: new me. There's Jagged and there's s Wace twenty two
Speaker 2: and yeah, yeah I can support love and nurture.
Speaker 1: So two questions before you go, because I'll be murdered
Speaker 1: by the Natalie Bassingthwaite fandom, that's okay. Ask because I
Speaker 1: put something on social media so people like I want
Speaker 1: to know, is there ever going to Can we ever
Speaker 1: expect to get more Rogue Traders music? Because I know
Speaker 1: there's a huge demand for it.
Speaker 2: You're like, yes, just do it. So where do we
Speaker 2: performing at the Early Beach Music Festival at the end
Speaker 2: of the year, first gig in like three years. So
Speaker 2: holy moly, watched this space that's going to be wild.
Speaker 2: James actually sent usd this kind of remix of one
Speaker 2: of the tunes he did the other day and it
Speaker 2: was really good. We were all all of us were vibing.
Speaker 2: I mean, this year is pretty booked out. I don't
Speaker 2: know if I have a spam minute and I can't
Speaker 2: get back to that falling in a ball on the
Speaker 2: floor in a crying heap. So maybe next year.
Speaker 1: Good to know. And the other one is everyone now
Speaker 1: knows that you're going to be a part of Neighbors
Speaker 1: as it wraps up with such an iconic role. Oh
Speaker 1: I just easy, Hoyland, what what a piece of work
Speaker 1: a piece of work.
Speaker 2: Oh, show is such a pose. Yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 1: Did you get a chance to see Kylie as Charlene
Speaker 1: at all? Throughout your time working on the show.
Speaker 2: They had to film their stuff because you got to
Speaker 2: get Kylie. When you can get Kylie, you got to
Speaker 2: get Jason when you can get Jason. Right, So I
Speaker 2: remember when it was like it's definitely ending. I direct
Speaker 2: message Jason. I'm like, are you going to get because
Speaker 2: we did Chicago together, and I was like, are you
Speaker 2: gonna go back on the show. I think I'm on
Speaker 2: the show. Are you going to do it? I think
Speaker 2: I'm going to do it. He's like, I really want
Speaker 2: to do it, but I don't know if I'm going
Speaker 2: to be in Australia, you know, And we're having all
Speaker 2: these blah blah blah to each other. And then when
Speaker 2: he did it, I was like, yeah, yeah. Now like
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm doing it too. But I haven't even
Speaker 2: got the last week's script, so I don't know what
Speaker 2: happens in the very end yet, right, but they've obviously
Speaker 2: pre recorded something, They're already done their bit. So I
Speaker 2: start on Monday. I'm very excited. I've got two weeks
Speaker 2: worth of filming and I still don't know what the
Speaker 2: third week, what happens. I kind of roughly know, but
Speaker 2: like it is it is crahhzy, Like I don't even
Speaker 2: know how, Like how do they write this stuff?
Speaker 1: So you've read the first two scripts two weeks of scripts? Yeah, okay, great.
Speaker 1: I'm imagining Ezzy Hoyland can go two ways because like
Speaker 1: she could also she could be good and she could
Speaker 1: be bad, but she could be like who is that
Speaker 1: in Melrow's place that bombed the apartment building? You know,
Speaker 1: like anything, it is possible, Anything is possible. Before you
Speaker 1: go from the podcast something I ask everyone who joins
Speaker 1: the show, what is something from behind the scenes that
Speaker 1: we won't see from the making of Space twenty two
Speaker 1: that is like a story to share from your experience.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean this is probably not a fun story.
Speaker 2: Well okay, hold on, let me make it a fun story. Okay.
Speaker 2: I was on Zoom on Sunday night with like most
Speaker 2: of the participants and we were like laughing about what
Speaker 2: they've been up to and like how they're feeling about
Speaker 2: the launch. And Tracy, her daughter, she's from Newcastle, so
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm from the gong. You're from newe We're
Speaker 2: kind of the same. She had all the participants up
Speaker 2: to her house and they were riding bikes and she
Speaker 2: was telling us this. This is this is probably not
Speaker 2: a fun story. Okay, I'm still gonna tell it because
Speaker 2: I mean it was okay. Anyway, she goes telling Stirr
Speaker 2: and they're riding bikes and she went back and she
Speaker 2: got her bike and she's trying to do something with
Speaker 2: the chain and then she does gives me the bird,
Speaker 2: right she goes and then look, and I thought she
Speaker 2: did one of those things where you know, they do
Speaker 2: this and they have one of those pretend finger things.
Speaker 2: She chopped her finger off when they were all together.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you did not, that's pretend and she's like, no,
Speaker 2: it got stuck in the bike chain. I'm like, wait
Speaker 2: what you know? So not a fun story. But she
Speaker 2: was hysterically laughing on Sunday. I'm like, this is a joke, right,
Speaker 2: it's a pretend one of those finger things, and she's
Speaker 2: like no, no, no, like it fell off. I tried
Speaker 2: to cover it up because I didn't want Ray and
Speaker 2: Vivian to see it. And then next thing, you know,
Speaker 2: Vivian sees the tip of my finger in the bike
Speaker 2: chain and then gets it out is kind of feeling
Speaker 2: really nauseous. They take her to the hospital. They can't
Speaker 2: sew it back on. I mean, not a funny story,
Speaker 2: but right now, it's hilarious. When she gives you the
Speaker 2: bird and it's like this, you know, it's not.
Speaker 1: The full bird, it's not.
Speaker 2: A full bird.
Speaker 1: Well i'm you know, I'm not the story that I
Speaker 1: was expecting. They're not the story that I was expecting.
Speaker 1: But it's still very funny. It is still very funny
Speaker 1: to us, I know, because we've still got all of
Speaker 1: our fingers. Na, the show is amazing. I hope Australia
Speaker 1: gets on board and watches it. But there's so much
Speaker 1: we can all take away from it, and I am
Speaker 1: so proud of you to have taken part in something
Speaker 1: that is so visceral and can help so many people.
Speaker 2: So thank you, Thanks beautiful, So good to see your
Speaker 2: shining face.