Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily This is
Speaker 1: the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense.
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday,
Speaker 2: the third of February.
Speaker 1: I'm Sam, I'm Billy.
Speaker 2: Sometime before mid May, every Australian over eighteen is going
Speaker 2: to walk into a polling booth and cast their ballot.
Speaker 2: As the road to the twenty twenty five election becomes shorter,
Speaker 2: the political, social, and economic conversations about the decisions in
Speaker 2: front of us are becoming more frequent. On today's episode,
Speaker 2: we sit down with the Prime Minister of Australia, Anthony Alberenezi.
Speaker 2: He's been the leader of the country for the past
Speaker 2: three years. During that time, talking points in Australia have
Speaker 2: been focused on the cost of living crisis, the failed
Speaker 2: referendum to introduce a First Nation's voice to Parliament, and
Speaker 2: a worsening gender based violence situation. Topics that were high
Speaker 2: on the priority list last election, like climate or a
Speaker 2: national Anti corruption Commission, have faded to the background. Australia
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five is a very different country so
Speaker 2: the one that voted him into office in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: So before the Prime Minister begins on his campaign trail.
Speaker 1: He came to the Dalios's offices last week for a
Speaker 1: sit down interview. Here's that chat. Prime Minister, thank you
Speaker 1: for joining the Daily Os.
Speaker 3: Wonderful to be here.
Speaker 1: I want to start really broad in your eyes, what
Speaker 1: is the biggest issue facing young people today?
Speaker 3: Intergenerational equity, the feeling that young people have that they're
Speaker 3: not getting a fair crack at what my generation and
Speaker 3: previous generations had. It is more difficult today to buy
Speaker 3: a home. There are pressures also, I think on young
Speaker 3: people due to the influence of new technology, the changing
Speaker 3: nature of work that has come with that.
Speaker 1: So let's start with the cost of living. Most of
Speaker 1: our audience are renters. If you're re elected, what will
Speaker 1: your government do to support renters?
Speaker 3: Well, the key, of course is supply is a way
Speaker 3: of producing lower costs, whether it be for home purchase
Speaker 3: or for people in rental properties. We have increased rental
Speaker 3: assistance by forty five percent in just our last two budgets.
Speaker 3: Now not everyone gets rental assistance, but the most vulnerable do.
Speaker 3: There's no short term fix. You can't fix what is
Speaker 3: a long term issue overnight.
Speaker 1: I want to talk more about supplies. So Labor has
Speaker 1: a goal to build one point two million homes by
Speaker 1: mid twenty twenty nine. New analysis last week showed we
Speaker 1: are already behind on that target. Why are we already behind.
Speaker 3: Because of some of the wold ups that are therein
Speaker 3: state and local government planning. There are a range of
Speaker 3: issues that need to be dealt with.
Speaker 1: Because many of those hold ups aren't new. They're not
Speaker 1: new issues.
Speaker 3: Oh they aren't. They aren't at all. But we had
Speaker 3: our legislation was only passed. For example, our legislation on
Speaker 3: Bill to Rent that provides private sector incentives for rental
Speaker 3: properties to be built, that was only passed in December.
Speaker 3: I would have spoken to you prior to the last
Speaker 3: election here about our Housing Australia Future Fund. It took
Speaker 3: us two years to get that legislation through and that
Speaker 3: has meant there's a delay.
Speaker 1: Can we expect any further announcements, specifically about the cost
Speaker 1: of living for young people before the next election. Yes,
Speaker 1: you can, and you are going to tell us it now.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to make announcements now, but I will
Speaker 3: say that one of the things that we've done is
Speaker 3: not just talk about what we have done. This term,
Speaker 3: but have already foreshadowed our action in the second term.
Speaker 3: So we'll cut student debt by a further twenty percent
Speaker 3: because we want to address these issues. We think that
Speaker 3: it is unfair and will also change where it kicks
Speaker 3: in and the amount that has to be paid back
Speaker 3: as a measure as well.
Speaker 1: Let's move to First Nations issues. Since the failed referendum,
Speaker 1: what has your government done to better the lives or
Speaker 1: First Nations people in this country.
Speaker 3: One of the things we've done is to concentrate on
Speaker 3: economic opportunity, so we're replacing the old work for the
Speaker 3: doll scheme basically that didn't really have any real jobs
Speaker 3: and people weren't participating it in training and skills. We
Speaker 3: have announced record funding for housing in remote communities as well.
Speaker 3: We understand that that is a real priority. If you've
Speaker 3: got housing over crowding, then you have health and education
Speaker 3: issues and that has been an important an ant with
Speaker 3: billions of dollars placed in there and as well in
Speaker 3: health dialysis machines becoming available. Increased support for health in
Speaker 3: Indigenous communities is really important.
Speaker 1: If we look at the Close the Gap targets, there's
Speaker 1: nineteen of them and only five are on track and
Speaker 1: four have in fact worsened. So clearly that's not enough.
Speaker 3: We know that that's the case. We know that governments
Speaker 3: of all persuasions haven't done enough. That's why First Nations
Speaker 3: people gathered at Eularu in twenty seventeen and said we
Speaker 3: need to try something different. Now the government, my government
Speaker 3: put our shoulder to the wheel and offered Australians the
Speaker 3: choice through a referendum. Now Australians didn't vote for that.
Speaker 3: We have to respect that. You have to respect democratic outcomes.
Speaker 3: So what I did was go to the Garma Festival
Speaker 3: last year and outline a strategy for economic empowerment.
Speaker 1: The Productivity Commission when reporting about the closing the Gap
Speaker 1: targets last year, they found quote, without fundamental change, the
Speaker 1: agreement will fail and the gap will remain. So I
Speaker 1: guess my question is what is your fundamental change?
Speaker 3: Well, what we are trying to do. We did try
Speaker 3: to that structure economic empowerment and engaging with Indigenous communities directly.
Speaker 3: There are great successes. If you look at the community
Speaker 3: around around where the Gama Festival is held, that's an
Speaker 3: example of education empowerment. There's a range of measures on education,
Speaker 3: that they have language, cultural respect, they have health programs,
Speaker 3: employment programs. They've been quite successful.
Speaker 1: I think the gap targets would suggest that they haven't.
Speaker 3: There are examples. What we shouldn't do is say there
Speaker 3: aren't success stories anywhere in Australia, because there are.
Speaker 1: But I guess the idea of policy right is to
Speaker 1: focus on the issues that need improvement.
Speaker 3: Oh exactly, And that is precisely what we are doing.
Speaker 3: And the key to that is economic empowerment is ensuring
Speaker 3: that the opportunities which many Australians would take for granted,
Speaker 3: which aren't available to First Nations people, are spread. You
Speaker 3: won't solve this overnight, but you will have respectful conversations
Speaker 3: to do things with Indigenous people rather than for them.
Speaker 1: Let's turn to domestic violence. Last year there were seventy
Speaker 1: eight women killed by gender based violence in Australia. The
Speaker 1: government's main policy in this area is a National Plan.
Speaker 1: For those who aren'tn't familiar with the National Plan, do
Speaker 1: you want to just explain what it is?
Speaker 3: Well? The National Plan is multifaceted. It's about respect and
Speaker 3: education is one element, but it's also about ensuring that
Speaker 3: women and children have places to go, So it's about
Speaker 3: ensuring that social housing or emergency housing is available. Part
Speaker 3: of the Housing Australia Future Fund that was held up
Speaker 3: for a while is about making sure that that can occur.
Speaker 3: So there's a proportion of that housing reserved for women
Speaker 3: and children escaping domestic balace.
Speaker 1: And it's not new. We've had a national plan before
Speaker 1: the last one failed, and then since this plan came
Speaker 1: into effect in twenty twenty two, the number of women
Speaker 1: killed by an intimate partner has increased each year in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four. So are these
Speaker 1: plans working well?
Speaker 3: Quite clearly, the statistics tell us that we need to
Speaker 3: do much better. That this is completely unacceptable. So too
Speaker 3: many examples where men have been released on bail having
Speaker 3: committed violent offenses against their partner and gone on to
Speaker 3: then commit murder, and those issues need to be dealt
Speaker 3: with as well their state and territory laws, and we
Speaker 3: are seeing changes across a range of jurisdictions. This requires
Speaker 3: a whole of society response because it is so prevalent,
Speaker 3: and it requires people to speak up about all of
Speaker 3: these issues.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm wondering it has got worse each year
Speaker 1: since this plan has come into effect. At what point
Speaker 1: do you concede that these national plans aren't working.
Speaker 3: Well, what you need to do is to not just
Speaker 3: throw your arms up and say they're not working. I'm
Speaker 3: not suggesting you're doing that. Of course you need two
Speaker 3: but will more be done? Yeah, we are doing more.
Speaker 1: That's not in the national plan.
Speaker 3: Yes, So the increased legal assistance has happened since twenty
Speaker 3: twenty two.
Speaker 1: But since then the has got work.
Speaker 3: The changes, Well, you put in five hundred million dollars
Speaker 3: over a period of time, that doesn't You don't make
Speaker 3: a decision and then it's in place that day. What
Speaker 3: we have done, what we have done since the plan
Speaker 3: is there is we've changed the legal assistance. In twenty
Speaker 3: twenty two, we didn't have the Housing Austray Future Fund
Speaker 3: with the funding for emergency housing that has now passed
Speaker 3: and that is now flowing to states and territories. So
Speaker 3: all of these measures, the work is never done. What
Speaker 3: one death is one too many, let alone the rise
Speaker 3: that we have soon.
Speaker 1: I want to move on to mental health. If the
Speaker 1: Coalition is elected, they have promised to reinstate the twenty
Speaker 1: subsidized mental health sessions. Why is a labor government not
Speaker 1: in support.
Speaker 3: Of this, because if you look at the statistics, what
Speaker 3: was happening was that some people were getting twenty and
Speaker 3: a whole lot of people were missing out on any
Speaker 3: at all. It was not effective. We have put record
Speaker 3: funding into mental health. We're putting additional funding into increased training,
Speaker 3: so we get more mental health professionals involved. What we
Speaker 3: need is more people to be able to provide those services.
Speaker 3: Otherwise it can lead to less people getting serviced than
Speaker 3: would occur otherwise.
Speaker 1: But you also need people to be able to pay
Speaker 1: for the services. That absolutely was analysis that showed that.
Speaker 1: But there was also resent that showed that people are
Speaker 1: delaying seeking help because of the cost of living.
Speaker 3: And so I guess if the solution at least well,
Speaker 3: what was happening was that people weren't getting the ten.
Speaker 1: But people who were in desperate need are now delaying
Speaker 1: getting more help because they don't have access to the
Speaker 1: extra twenty.
Speaker 3: But my question is some people were getting none. Is
Speaker 3: the point. Some people were getting twenty and some people
Speaker 3: were getting none. That was the problem.
Speaker 1: So guess my question is if the solution isn't to
Speaker 1: expand subsidized mental health sessions. Let's say the solution is
Speaker 1: not that.
Speaker 3: What is your solution, Well, the solution is to make
Speaker 3: sure that people can get access to subsidized mental health sessions.
Speaker 1: And you're saying you're not going to do that through
Speaker 1: helping people pay for it, but through having more people
Speaker 1: be able to deliver the service.
Speaker 3: Well, that's a precondition. That's a precondition for it. And
Speaker 3: we took advice from the experts and the statistics that
Speaker 3: showed that people were simply missing out.
Speaker 1: I want to shift to gambling. Australians spend and lose
Speaker 1: more to gambling than people in any other country in
Speaker 1: the world. A committee chaired by a former Labor MP
Speaker 1: recommended a total ban on gambling ads. That hasn't happened.
Speaker 1: Why not.
Speaker 3: We have taken more action on problem gambling than any
Speaker 3: government since Federation in history. So have introduced betstop which
Speaker 3: has helped people substantially, where banned the use of credit
Speaker 3: cards online as well, which was a big issue of
Speaker 3: sport gambling. There's more to do, but in this term
Speaker 3: we have done more, as I've said, than any government
Speaker 3: in history previously.
Speaker 1: But those measures haven't changed the fact that again Australians
Speaker 1: spend and lose more to gambling than people in any
Speaker 1: other country in the world. That hasn't changed.
Speaker 3: Yes, and there are no ads for poker machine gambling,
Speaker 3: which is overwhelmingly overwhelmingly where losses are. So the link
Speaker 3: between the two things is not a simple one. As
Speaker 3: I said, we have done a range of measures in place.
Speaker 3: We except that there's more to do and we will
Speaker 3: do more.
Speaker 1: So just to be really clear, we'll labor go to
Speaker 1: the next election with nothing on gambling ads.
Speaker 3: Specifically, No, we will go to the next election with
Speaker 3: the comprehensive.
Speaker 1: Policy, but on gambling ads.
Speaker 3: On gambling well, which gambling ads.
Speaker 1: So there was a problem. There was legislation that was
Speaker 1: shelved in November, right, No, on gambling ads. No, there
Speaker 1: was legislation on gambling ADS or draft legislation that was
Speaker 1: in discussion. So you've never considered banning gambling as No.
Speaker 3: We're considering a range of measures, but there hasn't been legislation.
Speaker 3: What we are doing as consulting on a range of measures.
Speaker 3: What more can we do to address problem gambling? As
Speaker 3: I said, we've done more than any government in history
Speaker 3: since federation. We accept that there's more to do, and
Speaker 3: we will do more.
Speaker 1: Let's move to climate change, and I want to focus
Speaker 1: on the Paris Agreement. So the US has recently withdrawn
Speaker 1: from the Paris Agreement. Twenty twenty four was the first
Speaker 1: year that global temperatures surpass one point five degrees above
Speaker 1: pre industrial levels, and even if Australia reaches our climate targets,
Speaker 1: it still wouldn't be enough to limit global warming to
Speaker 1: one point five degrees. So do you still believe that
Speaker 1: the Paris Agreement is achievable?
Speaker 3: I certainly do. And what's more, we've got a responsibility
Speaker 3: to achieve it. Our objective should be to lower emissions
Speaker 3: as much as possible. Of course, it's the case that
Speaker 3: any individual nation state acting will not achieve an outcome
Speaker 3: by itself. Because there's a global issue, it requires a
Speaker 3: global response. But if we don't act, then what legitimacy
Speaker 3: will we have in arguing that other countries, particularly developing countries,
Speaker 3: should act.
Speaker 1: I want to briefly touch on TikTok. Would you consider
Speaker 1: a ban on TikTok like we saw temporarily in the US. No,
Speaker 1: I'm interested in that because TikTok is banned on government
Speaker 1: devices in Australia. Is there a risk that the Chinese
Speaker 1: government is surveiling Australians through the TikTok app?
Speaker 3: Well, the security agencies have put in place.
Speaker 1: Measures because there is a risk of the Chinese government Australians.
Speaker 3: Well, there is, of course, because it is owned with
Speaker 3: links to the Chinese government because of their domestic polishy
Speaker 3: in the control that Chinese government has over Chinese companies
Speaker 3: to be able to direct them to provide information. That
Speaker 3: is the concern that people have.
Speaker 1: Let's turn to the conflict in the Middle East. Research
Speaker 1: cited by the UN earlier this month estimates that ninety
Speaker 1: two percent of housing units in Gaza have been destroyed
Speaker 1: or damaged. When the ceasefire was first announced, you were
Speaker 1: asked whether Australia would have a role in rebuilding Gaza
Speaker 1: and you said it was too soon to answer before
Speaker 1: the agreement took effect. So I'm interested in your answer today.
Speaker 1: Will Australia pay a role in rebuilding Gaza.
Speaker 3: Australia's always played a responsible role internationally and we've played
Speaker 3: a role in We've increased our aid to Gaza. That
Speaker 3: has been important through various agencies, not just CUN, but
Speaker 3: through other agencies as well. So I'm certain that Australia
Speaker 3: will play a role as we.
Speaker 1: Always rebuilding Gaza.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, as as we always do. You know, I'm
Speaker 3: appalled by the terrorist organization that is Hamas and the
Speaker 3: atrocity that they committed on October seven, but Palestinians have
Speaker 3: paid a very heavy price, including innocent Palestinians, for Mass's
Speaker 3: atrocities and for the ensuing conflict.
Speaker 1: Since October seven. Has Australia's relationship with Israel changed.
Speaker 3: Well, we have always supported the Australian government has always
Speaker 3: supported a two state solution in the Middle East. But
Speaker 3: we've taken a principal position. We have called for ceasefire,
Speaker 3: we've called for the release of all hostages. We've called
Speaker 3: for increased aid to be available into Gaza and for
Speaker 3: that to be allowed in in a fashion, and we
Speaker 3: have expressed our opposition to the loss of innocent life,
Speaker 3: whether it be Israeli or Palestinian or Lebanese during this conflict.
Speaker 3: So we have voted accordingly at the United Nations. That
Speaker 3: has received some criticism from all sides, but we've taken
Speaker 3: a principal position which overwhelmingly that's been in combination with
Speaker 3: the rest of the world alone.
Speaker 1: I've heard you consistently say when talking about Israel, is
Speaker 1: Israel has a right to defend itself, but how it
Speaker 1: defends itself matters. Do you agree with how Israel has
Speaker 1: defended itself.
Speaker 3: Well, quite clearly, I think that there's been too much
Speaker 3: loss of innocent life. I've made that very clear, and
Speaker 3: we have voted for that. Israel, of course, post October seven,
Speaker 3: was always going to defend itself. The threat that Hamas
Speaker 3: represented is something that was not going to be tolerated
Speaker 3: and wouldn't have been tolerated by any nation. This was
Speaker 3: an attack as well. Overwhelmingly, a lot of the victims
Speaker 3: were at the Nova Music festival. They were set upon, murdered,
Speaker 3: raped and taken as hostages for just enjoying a music festival,
Speaker 3: and it was an appalling action. But the Palestinian people
Speaker 3: have suffered enormously since then, with displacement, with being told
Speaker 3: to move to areas and then being told to move again,
Speaker 3: the loss of life, life, the loss of housing, an amenity,
Speaker 3: the destruction has been a significant and I want to
Speaker 3: see arising out of these tragic circumstances, a move towards
Speaker 3: a long term solution and that requires the right of
Speaker 3: both Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace and security.
Speaker 1: Two more topics, The first anti Semitism. We have seen
Speaker 1: a rise in anti Semitic and other religiously motivated hate crimes.
Speaker 1: A number of arrests have been made, but that's in
Speaker 1: response to this issue. What are you doing in terms
Speaker 1: of stopping it before it happens?
Speaker 3: Well, we're doing education. Just this week we announced funding
Speaker 3: for a national center to be in Canberra and increase
Speaker 3: funding as well in Western Australia at the center that
Speaker 3: I visited there for Holocaust education. We need to make
Speaker 3: sure that people understand that the Holocaust, six million Jews
Speaker 3: were murdered by the Nazis, and it didn't begin with
Speaker 3: the gas chambers. It began with a treating of Jewish
Speaker 3: people and a depiction of them as being of less
Speaker 3: value than their fellow citizens. And we are seeing an
Speaker 3: equation which I think is has increased, there's no question
Speaker 3: about that. And we have though people who because they
Speaker 3: are Jewish have been targeted, whether that be a synagogue
Speaker 3: or whether that be people on the street. We're seeing,
Speaker 3: I think really arise that I haven't seen in my lifetime.
Speaker 3: You know, it's beyond my comprehension how anyone either does
Speaker 3: or funds the fire attack arson attack on a childcare
Speaker 3: center that is near a synagogue there in Arubra. That
Speaker 3: to my mind, is just appalling.
Speaker 1: We have to move on because we're very much running
Speaker 1: out of time. I just want to end on global trends.
Speaker 1: One of the key voting blocks that returned Trump to
Speaker 1: power in the US was young men. How are you
Speaker 1: planning in this election campaign to reach young men?
Speaker 3: Well, we engage through opportunity is important. What we won't
Speaker 3: do is engage in some of the the campaign strategies
Speaker 3: that we've seen from some of the right Internationally globally
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 3: I think this toxic masculinity that is being appealed to
Speaker 3: is a concern that doesn't benefit societies as a whole.
Speaker 3: We need to work towards bring together a common interest.
Speaker 3: From my perspective of young men and young women, both
Speaker 3: have an interest in a strong economy, Both have an
Speaker 3: interest in equity, Both have an interest in the planet
Speaker 3: that they are inheriting and that their children will inherit
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 1: Last question, if we look at global trends. There has
Speaker 1: been a shift to the right in politics, and to
Speaker 1: be re elected you'll obviously need to buck that trend.
Speaker 1: What is your plan to do?
Speaker 3: Our plan is to put forward the fact that we
Speaker 3: have been an orderly, good government that has governed through
Speaker 3: difficult global inflationary times. But these have been turbulent seas,
Speaker 3: but we've kept our eye on the horizon and what
Speaker 3: we've done is we've got lower inflation, higher wages and
Speaker 3: low unemployment, so a good record there. But we will
Speaker 3: have an offer as well of why people will be
Speaker 3: better off in three years time if they vote for
Speaker 3: a labor government. The pitch essentially of Peter Dutton is
Speaker 3: when he says in their first word of their slogan
Speaker 3: is back. Australia can't afford to go back back to
Speaker 3: a time where Prime Minister had six portfolios, where wages
Speaker 3: were going down, inflation was going up, and people weren't
Speaker 3: being respected for who they are and our relationship China
Speaker 3: what's terrible. We can't afford to go back.
Speaker 1: Prime Minister. You've been very generous with your time. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us, Thank.
Speaker 3: You for having me once again. Look forward to coming
Speaker 3: back during the campaign.
Speaker 1: I hope we can do a leader's debate, that's all
Speaker 1: we're billing for.
Speaker 3: That would be good. I'm up for that. If not,
Speaker 3: I'll turn up anyway.
Speaker 1: I've got it on record.
Speaker 2: Thank you, hah, well, you had it there first. Billy,
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister has agreed to a leader's debate with
Speaker 2: the Daily Os. Now here's some information for everyone listening.
Speaker 2: We've put in a request with the Opposition leader, Peter
Speaker 2: Dunnan's office. They have received that request both for that
Speaker 2: leader's debate, but we're also really keen to sit down
Speaker 2: with the Opposition leader one on one for exactly the
Speaker 2: same interview that we've just had with the Prime Minister.
Speaker 2: At the time, recording were yet to hear back, but
Speaker 2: we're confident that we will let you know when we do.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to that interview with
Speaker 2: Billy and the Prime Minister. If you want to help
Speaker 2: TDA grow, it really would mean the world too. And
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Speaker 2: We're going to be back again this afternoon with your headlines,
Speaker 2: but the until then, have a great Monday.
Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Speaker 1: Bunjelung Kalkotin woman from Gadighl country.
Speaker 3: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on
Speaker 3: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to
Speaker 3: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay
Speaker 3: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both
Speaker 3: past and present,