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Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily This is

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Speaker 1: the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday,

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Speaker 2: the third of February.

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Speaker 1: I'm Sam, I'm Billy.

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Speaker 2: Sometime before mid May, every Australian over eighteen is going

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Speaker 2: to walk into a polling booth and cast their ballot.

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Speaker 2: As the road to the twenty twenty five election becomes shorter,

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Speaker 2: the political, social, and economic conversations about the decisions in

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Speaker 2: front of us are becoming more frequent. On today's episode,

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Speaker 2: we sit down with the Prime Minister of Australia, Anthony Alberenezi.

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Speaker 2: He's been the leader of the country for the past

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Speaker 2: three years. During that time, talking points in Australia have

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Speaker 2: been focused on the cost of living crisis, the failed

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Speaker 2: referendum to introduce a First Nation's voice to Parliament, and

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Speaker 2: a worsening gender based violence situation. Topics that were high

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Speaker 2: on the priority list last election, like climate or a

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Speaker 2: national Anti corruption Commission, have faded to the background. Australia

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five is a very different country so

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Speaker 2: the one that voted him into office in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: So before the Prime Minister begins on his campaign trail.

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Speaker 1: He came to the Dalios's offices last week for a

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Speaker 1: sit down interview. Here's that chat. Prime Minister, thank you

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Speaker 1: for joining the Daily Os.

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Speaker 3: Wonderful to be here.

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Speaker 1: I want to start really broad in your eyes, what

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Speaker 1: is the biggest issue facing young people today?

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Speaker 3: Intergenerational equity, the feeling that young people have that they're

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Speaker 3: not getting a fair crack at what my generation and

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Speaker 3: previous generations had. It is more difficult today to buy

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Speaker 3: a home. There are pressures also, I think on young

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Speaker 3: people due to the influence of new technology, the changing

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Speaker 3: nature of work that has come with that.

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Speaker 1: So let's start with the cost of living. Most of

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Speaker 1: our audience are renters. If you're re elected, what will

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Speaker 1: your government do to support renters?

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Speaker 3: Well, the key, of course is supply is a way

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Speaker 3: of producing lower costs, whether it be for home purchase

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Speaker 3: or for people in rental properties. We have increased rental

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Speaker 3: assistance by forty five percent in just our last two budgets.

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Speaker 3: Now not everyone gets rental assistance, but the most vulnerable do.

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Speaker 3: There's no short term fix. You can't fix what is

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Speaker 3: a long term issue overnight.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk more about supplies. So Labor has

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Speaker 1: a goal to build one point two million homes by

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Speaker 1: mid twenty twenty nine. New analysis last week showed we

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Speaker 1: are already behind on that target. Why are we already behind.

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Speaker 3: Because of some of the wold ups that are therein

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Speaker 3: state and local government planning. There are a range of

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Speaker 3: issues that need to be dealt with.

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Speaker 1: Because many of those hold ups aren't new. They're not

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Speaker 1: new issues.

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Speaker 3: Oh they aren't. They aren't at all. But we had

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Speaker 3: our legislation was only passed. For example, our legislation on

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Speaker 3: Bill to Rent that provides private sector incentives for rental

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Speaker 3: properties to be built, that was only passed in December.

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Speaker 3: I would have spoken to you prior to the last

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Speaker 3: election here about our Housing Australia Future Fund. It took

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Speaker 3: us two years to get that legislation through and that

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Speaker 3: has meant there's a delay.

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Speaker 1: Can we expect any further announcements, specifically about the cost

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Speaker 1: of living for young people before the next election. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you can, and you are going to tell us it now.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to make announcements now, but I will

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Speaker 3: say that one of the things that we've done is

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Speaker 3: not just talk about what we have done. This term,

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Speaker 3: but have already foreshadowed our action in the second term.

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Speaker 3: So we'll cut student debt by a further twenty percent

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Speaker 3: because we want to address these issues. We think that

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Speaker 3: it is unfair and will also change where it kicks

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Speaker 3: in and the amount that has to be paid back

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Speaker 3: as a measure as well.

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Speaker 1: Let's move to First Nations issues. Since the failed referendum,

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Speaker 1: what has your government done to better the lives or

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Speaker 1: First Nations people in this country.

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Speaker 3: One of the things we've done is to concentrate on

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Speaker 3: economic opportunity, so we're replacing the old work for the

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Speaker 3: doll scheme basically that didn't really have any real jobs

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Speaker 3: and people weren't participating it in training and skills. We

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Speaker 3: have announced record funding for housing in remote communities as well.

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Speaker 3: We understand that that is a real priority. If you've

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Speaker 3: got housing over crowding, then you have health and education

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Speaker 3: issues and that has been an important an ant with

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Speaker 3: billions of dollars placed in there and as well in

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Speaker 3: health dialysis machines becoming available. Increased support for health in

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Speaker 3: Indigenous communities is really important.

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Speaker 1: If we look at the Close the Gap targets, there's

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Speaker 1: nineteen of them and only five are on track and

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Speaker 1: four have in fact worsened. So clearly that's not enough.

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Speaker 3: We know that that's the case. We know that governments

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Speaker 3: of all persuasions haven't done enough. That's why First Nations

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Speaker 3: people gathered at Eularu in twenty seventeen and said we

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Speaker 3: need to try something different. Now the government, my government

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Speaker 3: put our shoulder to the wheel and offered Australians the

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Speaker 3: choice through a referendum. Now Australians didn't vote for that.

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Speaker 3: We have to respect that. You have to respect democratic outcomes.

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Speaker 3: So what I did was go to the Garma Festival

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Speaker 3: last year and outline a strategy for economic empowerment.

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Speaker 1: The Productivity Commission when reporting about the closing the Gap

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Speaker 1: targets last year, they found quote, without fundamental change, the

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Speaker 1: agreement will fail and the gap will remain. So I

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Speaker 1: guess my question is what is your fundamental change?

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Speaker 3: Well, what we are trying to do. We did try

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Speaker 3: to that structure economic empowerment and engaging with Indigenous communities directly.

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Speaker 3: There are great successes. If you look at the community

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Speaker 3: around around where the Gama Festival is held, that's an

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Speaker 3: example of education empowerment. There's a range of measures on education,

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Speaker 3: that they have language, cultural respect, they have health programs,

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Speaker 3: employment programs. They've been quite successful.

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Speaker 1: I think the gap targets would suggest that they haven't.

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Speaker 3: There are examples. What we shouldn't do is say there

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Speaker 3: aren't success stories anywhere in Australia, because there are.

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Speaker 1: But I guess the idea of policy right is to

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Speaker 1: focus on the issues that need improvement.

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Speaker 3: Oh exactly, And that is precisely what we are doing.

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Speaker 3: And the key to that is economic empowerment is ensuring

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Speaker 3: that the opportunities which many Australians would take for granted,

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Speaker 3: which aren't available to First Nations people, are spread. You

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Speaker 3: won't solve this overnight, but you will have respectful conversations

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Speaker 3: to do things with Indigenous people rather than for them.

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Speaker 1: Let's turn to domestic violence. Last year there were seventy

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Speaker 1: eight women killed by gender based violence in Australia. The

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Speaker 1: government's main policy in this area is a National Plan.

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Speaker 1: For those who aren'tn't familiar with the National Plan, do

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Speaker 1: you want to just explain what it is?

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Speaker 3: Well? The National Plan is multifaceted. It's about respect and

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Speaker 3: education is one element, but it's also about ensuring that

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Speaker 3: women and children have places to go, So it's about

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Speaker 3: ensuring that social housing or emergency housing is available. Part

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Speaker 3: of the Housing Australia Future Fund that was held up

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Speaker 3: for a while is about making sure that that can occur.

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Speaker 3: So there's a proportion of that housing reserved for women

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Speaker 3: and children escaping domestic balace.

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Speaker 1: And it's not new. We've had a national plan before

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Speaker 1: the last one failed, and then since this plan came

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Speaker 1: into effect in twenty twenty two, the number of women

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Speaker 1: killed by an intimate partner has increased each year in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four. So are these

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Speaker 1: plans working well?

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Speaker 3: Quite clearly, the statistics tell us that we need to

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Speaker 3: do much better. That this is completely unacceptable. So too

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Speaker 3: many examples where men have been released on bail having

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Speaker 3: committed violent offenses against their partner and gone on to

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Speaker 3: then commit murder, and those issues need to be dealt

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Speaker 3: with as well their state and territory laws, and we

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Speaker 3: are seeing changes across a range of jurisdictions. This requires

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Speaker 3: a whole of society response because it is so prevalent,

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Speaker 3: and it requires people to speak up about all of

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Speaker 3: these issues.

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm wondering it has got worse each year

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Speaker 1: since this plan has come into effect. At what point

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Speaker 1: do you concede that these national plans aren't working.

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Speaker 3: Well, what you need to do is to not just

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Speaker 3: throw your arms up and say they're not working. I'm

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Speaker 3: not suggesting you're doing that. Of course you need two

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Speaker 3: but will more be done? Yeah, we are doing more.

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Speaker 1: That's not in the national plan.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So the increased legal assistance has happened since twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two.

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Speaker 1: But since then the has got work.

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Speaker 3: The changes, Well, you put in five hundred million dollars

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Speaker 3: over a period of time, that doesn't You don't make

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Speaker 3: a decision and then it's in place that day. What

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Speaker 3: we have done, what we have done since the plan

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Speaker 3: is there is we've changed the legal assistance. In twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two, we didn't have the Housing Austray Future Fund

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Speaker 3: with the funding for emergency housing that has now passed

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Speaker 3: and that is now flowing to states and territories. So

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Speaker 3: all of these measures, the work is never done. What

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Speaker 3: one death is one too many, let alone the rise

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Speaker 3: that we have soon.

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Speaker 1: I want to move on to mental health. If the

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Speaker 1: Coalition is elected, they have promised to reinstate the twenty

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Speaker 1: subsidized mental health sessions. Why is a labor government not

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Speaker 1: in support.

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Speaker 3: Of this, because if you look at the statistics, what

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Speaker 3: was happening was that some people were getting twenty and

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Speaker 3: a whole lot of people were missing out on any

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Speaker 3: at all. It was not effective. We have put record

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Speaker 3: funding into mental health. We're putting additional funding into increased training,

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Speaker 3: so we get more mental health professionals involved. What we

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Speaker 3: need is more people to be able to provide those services.

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Speaker 3: Otherwise it can lead to less people getting serviced than

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Speaker 3: would occur otherwise.

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Speaker 1: But you also need people to be able to pay

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Speaker 1: for the services. That absolutely was analysis that showed that.

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Speaker 1: But there was also resent that showed that people are

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Speaker 1: delaying seeking help because of the cost of living.

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Speaker 3: And so I guess if the solution at least well,

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Speaker 3: what was happening was that people weren't getting the ten.

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Speaker 1: But people who were in desperate need are now delaying

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Speaker 1: getting more help because they don't have access to the

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Speaker 1: extra twenty.

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Speaker 3: But my question is some people were getting none. Is

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Speaker 3: the point. Some people were getting twenty and some people

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Speaker 3: were getting none. That was the problem.

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Speaker 1: So guess my question is if the solution isn't to

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Speaker 1: expand subsidized mental health sessions. Let's say the solution is

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Speaker 1: not that.

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Speaker 3: What is your solution, Well, the solution is to make

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Speaker 3: sure that people can get access to subsidized mental health sessions.

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Speaker 1: And you're saying you're not going to do that through

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Speaker 1: helping people pay for it, but through having more people

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Speaker 1: be able to deliver the service.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a precondition. That's a precondition for it. And

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Speaker 3: we took advice from the experts and the statistics that

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Speaker 3: showed that people were simply missing out.

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Speaker 1: I want to shift to gambling. Australians spend and lose

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Speaker 1: more to gambling than people in any other country in

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Speaker 1: the world. A committee chaired by a former Labor MP

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Speaker 1: recommended a total ban on gambling ads. That hasn't happened.

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Speaker 1: Why not.

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Speaker 3: We have taken more action on problem gambling than any

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Speaker 3: government since Federation in history. So have introduced betstop which

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Speaker 3: has helped people substantially, where banned the use of credit

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Speaker 3: cards online as well, which was a big issue of

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Speaker 3: sport gambling. There's more to do, but in this term

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Speaker 3: we have done more, as I've said, than any government

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Speaker 3: in history previously.

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Speaker 1: But those measures haven't changed the fact that again Australians

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Speaker 1: spend and lose more to gambling than people in any

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Speaker 1: other country in the world. That hasn't changed.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and there are no ads for poker machine gambling,

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Speaker 3: which is overwhelmingly overwhelmingly where losses are. So the link

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Speaker 3: between the two things is not a simple one. As

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Speaker 3: I said, we have done a range of measures in place.

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Speaker 3: We except that there's more to do and we will

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Speaker 3: do more.

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Speaker 1: So just to be really clear, we'll labor go to

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Speaker 1: the next election with nothing on gambling ads.

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Speaker 3: Specifically, No, we will go to the next election with

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Speaker 3: the comprehensive.

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Speaker 1: Policy, but on gambling ads.

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Speaker 3: On gambling well, which gambling ads.

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Speaker 1: So there was a problem. There was legislation that was

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Speaker 1: shelved in November, right, No, on gambling ads. No, there

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Speaker 1: was legislation on gambling ADS or draft legislation that was

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Speaker 1: in discussion. So you've never considered banning gambling as No.

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Speaker 3: We're considering a range of measures, but there hasn't been legislation.

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Speaker 3: What we are doing as consulting on a range of measures.

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Speaker 3: What more can we do to address problem gambling? As

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Speaker 3: I said, we've done more than any government in history

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Speaker 3: since federation. We accept that there's more to do, and

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Speaker 3: we will do more.

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Speaker 1: Let's move to climate change, and I want to focus

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Speaker 1: on the Paris Agreement. So the US has recently withdrawn

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Speaker 1: from the Paris Agreement. Twenty twenty four was the first

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Speaker 1: year that global temperatures surpass one point five degrees above

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Speaker 1: pre industrial levels, and even if Australia reaches our climate targets,

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Speaker 1: it still wouldn't be enough to limit global warming to

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Speaker 1: one point five degrees. So do you still believe that

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Speaker 1: the Paris Agreement is achievable?

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Speaker 3: I certainly do. And what's more, we've got a responsibility

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Speaker 3: to achieve it. Our objective should be to lower emissions

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Speaker 3: as much as possible. Of course, it's the case that

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Speaker 3: any individual nation state acting will not achieve an outcome

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Speaker 3: by itself. Because there's a global issue, it requires a

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Speaker 3: global response. But if we don't act, then what legitimacy

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Speaker 3: will we have in arguing that other countries, particularly developing countries,

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Speaker 3: should act.

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Speaker 1: I want to briefly touch on TikTok. Would you consider

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Speaker 1: a ban on TikTok like we saw temporarily in the US. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in that because TikTok is banned on government

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Speaker 1: devices in Australia. Is there a risk that the Chinese

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Speaker 1: government is surveiling Australians through the TikTok app?

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Speaker 3: Well, the security agencies have put in place.

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Speaker 1: Measures because there is a risk of the Chinese government Australians.

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Speaker 3: Well, there is, of course, because it is owned with

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Speaker 3: links to the Chinese government because of their domestic polishy

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Speaker 3: in the control that Chinese government has over Chinese companies

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Speaker 3: to be able to direct them to provide information. That

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Speaker 3: is the concern that people have.

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Speaker 1: Let's turn to the conflict in the Middle East. Research

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Speaker 1: cited by the UN earlier this month estimates that ninety

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Speaker 1: two percent of housing units in Gaza have been destroyed

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Speaker 1: or damaged. When the ceasefire was first announced, you were

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Speaker 1: asked whether Australia would have a role in rebuilding Gaza

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Speaker 1: and you said it was too soon to answer before

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Speaker 1: the agreement took effect. So I'm interested in your answer today.

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Speaker 1: Will Australia pay a role in rebuilding Gaza.

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Speaker 3: Australia's always played a responsible role internationally and we've played

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Speaker 3: a role in We've increased our aid to Gaza. That

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Speaker 3: has been important through various agencies, not just CUN, but

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Speaker 3: through other agencies as well. So I'm certain that Australia

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Speaker 3: will play a role as we.

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Speaker 1: Always rebuilding Gaza.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, as as we always do. You know, I'm

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Speaker 3: appalled by the terrorist organization that is Hamas and the

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Speaker 3: atrocity that they committed on October seven, but Palestinians have

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Speaker 3: paid a very heavy price, including innocent Palestinians, for Mass's

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Speaker 3: atrocities and for the ensuing conflict.

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Speaker 1: Since October seven. Has Australia's relationship with Israel changed.

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Speaker 3: Well, we have always supported the Australian government has always

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Speaker 3: supported a two state solution in the Middle East. But

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Speaker 3: we've taken a principal position. We have called for ceasefire,

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Speaker 3: we've called for the release of all hostages. We've called

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Speaker 3: for increased aid to be available into Gaza and for

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Speaker 3: that to be allowed in in a fashion, and we

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Speaker 3: have expressed our opposition to the loss of innocent life,

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Speaker 3: whether it be Israeli or Palestinian or Lebanese during this conflict.

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Speaker 3: So we have voted accordingly at the United Nations. That

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Speaker 3: has received some criticism from all sides, but we've taken

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Speaker 3: a principal position which overwhelmingly that's been in combination with

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Speaker 3: the rest of the world alone.

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Speaker 1: I've heard you consistently say when talking about Israel, is

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Speaker 1: Israel has a right to defend itself, but how it

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Speaker 1: defends itself matters. Do you agree with how Israel has

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Speaker 1: defended itself.

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Speaker 3: Well, quite clearly, I think that there's been too much

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Speaker 3: loss of innocent life. I've made that very clear, and

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Speaker 3: we have voted for that. Israel, of course, post October seven,

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Speaker 3: was always going to defend itself. The threat that Hamas

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Speaker 3: represented is something that was not going to be tolerated

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Speaker 3: and wouldn't have been tolerated by any nation. This was

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Speaker 3: an attack as well. Overwhelmingly, a lot of the victims

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Speaker 3: were at the Nova Music festival. They were set upon, murdered,

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Speaker 3: raped and taken as hostages for just enjoying a music festival,

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Speaker 3: and it was an appalling action. But the Palestinian people

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Speaker 3: have suffered enormously since then, with displacement, with being told

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Speaker 3: to move to areas and then being told to move again,

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Speaker 3: the loss of life, life, the loss of housing, an amenity,

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Speaker 3: the destruction has been a significant and I want to

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Speaker 3: see arising out of these tragic circumstances, a move towards

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Speaker 3: a long term solution and that requires the right of

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Speaker 3: both Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace and security.

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Speaker 1: Two more topics, The first anti Semitism. We have seen

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Speaker 1: a rise in anti Semitic and other religiously motivated hate crimes.

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Speaker 1: A number of arrests have been made, but that's in

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Speaker 1: response to this issue. What are you doing in terms

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Speaker 1: of stopping it before it happens?

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Speaker 3: Well, we're doing education. Just this week we announced funding

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Speaker 3: for a national center to be in Canberra and increase

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Speaker 3: funding as well in Western Australia at the center that

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Speaker 3: I visited there for Holocaust education. We need to make

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Speaker 3: sure that people understand that the Holocaust, six million Jews

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Speaker 3: were murdered by the Nazis, and it didn't begin with

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Speaker 3: the gas chambers. It began with a treating of Jewish

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Speaker 3: people and a depiction of them as being of less

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Speaker 3: value than their fellow citizens. And we are seeing an

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Speaker 3: equation which I think is has increased, there's no question

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Speaker 3: about that. And we have though people who because they

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Speaker 3: are Jewish have been targeted, whether that be a synagogue

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Speaker 3: or whether that be people on the street. We're seeing,

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Speaker 3: I think really arise that I haven't seen in my lifetime.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's beyond my comprehension how anyone either does

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Speaker 3: or funds the fire attack arson attack on a childcare

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Speaker 3: center that is near a synagogue there in Arubra. That

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Speaker 3: to my mind, is just appalling.

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Speaker 1: We have to move on because we're very much running

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Speaker 1: out of time. I just want to end on global trends.

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Speaker 1: One of the key voting blocks that returned Trump to

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Speaker 1: power in the US was young men. How are you

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Speaker 1: planning in this election campaign to reach young men?

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Speaker 3: Well, we engage through opportunity is important. What we won't

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Speaker 3: do is engage in some of the the campaign strategies

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Speaker 3: that we've seen from some of the right Internationally globally

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: I think this toxic masculinity that is being appealed to

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Speaker 3: is a concern that doesn't benefit societies as a whole.

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Speaker 3: We need to work towards bring together a common interest.

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Speaker 3: From my perspective of young men and young women, both

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Speaker 3: have an interest in a strong economy, Both have an

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Speaker 3: interest in equity, Both have an interest in the planet

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Speaker 3: that they are inheriting and that their children will inherit

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 1: Last question, if we look at global trends. There has

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Speaker 1: been a shift to the right in politics, and to

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Speaker 1: be re elected you'll obviously need to buck that trend.

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Speaker 1: What is your plan to do?

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Speaker 3: Our plan is to put forward the fact that we

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Speaker 3: have been an orderly, good government that has governed through

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Speaker 3: difficult global inflationary times. But these have been turbulent seas,

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Speaker 3: but we've kept our eye on the horizon and what

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Speaker 3: we've done is we've got lower inflation, higher wages and

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Speaker 3: low unemployment, so a good record there. But we will

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Speaker 3: have an offer as well of why people will be

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Speaker 3: better off in three years time if they vote for

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Speaker 3: a labor government. The pitch essentially of Peter Dutton is

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Speaker 3: when he says in their first word of their slogan

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Speaker 3: is back. Australia can't afford to go back back to

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Speaker 3: a time where Prime Minister had six portfolios, where wages

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Speaker 3: were going down, inflation was going up, and people weren't

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Speaker 3: being respected for who they are and our relationship China

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Speaker 3: what's terrible. We can't afford to go back.

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister. You've been very generous with your time. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining us, Thank.

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Speaker 3: You for having me once again. Look forward to coming

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Speaker 3: back during the campaign.

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Speaker 1: I hope we can do a leader's debate, that's all

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Speaker 1: we're billing for.

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Speaker 3: That would be good. I'm up for that. If not,

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Speaker 3: I'll turn up anyway.

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Speaker 1: I've got it on record.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, hah, well, you had it there first. Billy,

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Speaker 2: the Prime Minister has agreed to a leader's debate with

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Speaker 2: the Daily Os. Now here's some information for everyone listening.

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Speaker 2: We've put in a request with the Opposition leader, Peter

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Speaker 2: Dunnan's office. They have received that request both for that

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Speaker 2: leader's debate, but we're also really keen to sit down

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Speaker 2: with the Opposition leader one on one for exactly the

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Speaker 2: same interview that we've just had with the Prime Minister.

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Speaker 2: At the time, recording were yet to hear back, but

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Speaker 2: we're confident that we will let you know when we do.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to that interview with

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Speaker 2: Billy and the Prime Minister. If you want to help

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Speaker 2: TDA grow, it really would mean the world too. And

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Speaker 2: the best way to support our podcast is to hit

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Speaker 2: follow on Apple or Spotify, and if you're feeling incredibly generous,

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Speaker 2: leave us a review on Apple, even jump onto our

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Speaker 2: YouTube and follow us over there. It really helps us

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Speaker 2: shoot up the charts and help new people find us.

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Speaker 2: We're going to be back again this afternoon with your headlines,

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Speaker 2: but the until then, have a great Monday.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bunjelung Kalkotin woman from Gadighl country.

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Speaker 3: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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Speaker 3: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

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Speaker 3: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay

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Speaker 3: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both

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Speaker 3: past and present,