WEBVTT - 19: Duty of Care 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:06.360 This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:11.760 urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:18.960 thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:29.319 lifeline dot org dot AU. A twenty four year old 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:38.839 devoted mother of two fleeing a violent relationships am bags 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:45.200 packed car, running, her daughters strapped into the backseat. 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:49.040 Mom told me that she needed to go back inside 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:49.879 to grab something. 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:50.640 Panic. 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:53.400 Amy is dead, sir By Amy's. 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:54.560 Dead eight Confusion World. 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:57.120 About five minutes they said, NASA suicide. 0:00:56.640 --> 0:01:00.680 One hundred percent. This is emersing. 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:05.399 What do you think is really the honest truth about Amy? 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:17.120 The Truth About Amy. 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:17.399 Episode nineteen. 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:21.559 I'm Liam Bartlett. 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:23.560 And I'm Alison Sandy. 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:33.920 And welcome back out. I thought we'd start today with 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.319 the feedback we've received since starting season two of The 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:42.839 Truth About Amy podcast. Many of our listeners are probably 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:46.039 wondering why they haven't heard anything from some of the 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:50.000 key witnesses for a little while. Well, it just so happens. 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:54.240 One of the key three, shall we say, Joshua Brydon, 0:01:54.880 --> 0:02:00.440 sent us a very heartwarming message, well sort of. It 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.120 was sent to the Facebook page set up by Amy's 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:08.960 best friend Aaron Gower, who has been fantastic in her 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.640 support on this. Erin has been unbelievable. I've got to say. 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.560 I mean, if Amy was still alive, she would just 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.520 absolutely love her even more. And this is what the 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:23.800 message from Joshua Brighton said, and I'm quoting. If my 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:27.720 name keeps being mentioned on this page, I will be 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.520 taking legal action against this page as well as the 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:38.320 news cruise behind this anyone that follows this page. I'm 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.800 just reading as his folks, because there's no punctuation on this. 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:46.800 I have been discriminated, says josh On here, and have 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:51.639 received threats in messages from it all. I have assisted 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:54.120 the police every time they have come to talk to 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:59.280 me or called me. Ewes are no better with what 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:04.680 yous doing. It is narcissistic behavior, says josh that yous 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:08.440 are doing, and it is wrong. Yous are no better 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.720 than the gas lighting, violent people you're trying to expose. 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:17.240 I will say this once. I'm not friends with David anymore. 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:20.640 He's talking about David Simmons and have nothing to do 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:25.239 with him whatsoever. Three words on the end there, full stop. 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.919 Now that's Joshua's loving message to the podcast and all 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:33.480 our listeners, and particularly to Aaron Gower's Facebook page that 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:37.040 she set up to support Amy Wensley. Now, let me 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:41.040 just go through this very quickly, and Joshua, good luck mate. 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.360 I'll see you in court anytime you want to bring 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:45.760 a counsel and try to sue anybody who's part of 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.760 this podcast. I'd welcome that. That would be fantastic because 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:50.320 we'd love to see you in the stand. And I've 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:52.680 got some questions of my own. Rather than you running 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:54.320 away like you did last time I tried to talk 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.080 to you, am need to let it go. 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:58.200 I don't have to talk. 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:00.880 To you, but let me just go back, Joshua says. 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:02.640 If my name keeps being mentioned on this page, I'll 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:04.560 be taking legal action against his page Blubber as well 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.920 as the news crew is behind this. Well, the news 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.480 crews are only doing their job, Joshua. They're not going 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.440 to be exposed legally anywhere. But I hate to disappoint you. 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:15.320 I've been discriminated on here, he says, and receive threats 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:18.200 in messages. Well, threats are no good from anybody. That's 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.320 the only thing in this entire message that I agree with, 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:23.760 But you certainly haven't been discriminated. What we're trying to 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.040 find is the truth, Joshua. But I'll go on. He says, 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.200 I've assisted the police every time they've come to talk 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:32.240 to me or called me. We don't know that, and 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.120 we don't know the quality of the assistance you've given police. 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.760 And I, for one, seem to think there are other 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:42.760 things that perhaps perhaps you have still not shared with 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:46.560 the police. But look, we'll leave that in abeyance, like 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:48.839 the rest of the information that I think that you 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:51.680 have in your back pocket somewhere. He says, what you're doing, 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:55.359 us are doing. That's all of us. I think he 0:04:55.480 --> 0:05:02.360 means Allison is narcissistic behavior. Narcissistic behavior, Well, that normally 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:07.039 relates to people loving themselves and being very self indulgent, 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.839 and I think that's probably the wrong word. He then says, 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.640 it is wrong. Yous are no better. Now, this is 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.200 the key to the whole message. Us are no better 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:23.359 than the gaslighting, violent people you're trying to expose. Well, 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:27.880 a huge green tick there, Joshua, because yes, yes, we 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:31.359 are trying to expose them, and they are gaslighting, and 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.960 they are violent people. But how do you know that, Joshua. 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.919 How does Joshua know that the people we're trying to 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:42.680 expose are gaslighting violent people? And where's he getting that 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:46.440 information from? Allison? And then he says, I'm not friends 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:50.799 with David anymore. Why would he say that and include 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:53.440 that on the same line as the gaslighting violent people. 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.320 That's very interesting choice. Maybe that's just a run of 0:05:56.360 --> 0:06:00.000 conscience that he has when he's composing this little message. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:04.240 Who knows again, Joshua, if you'd like to contact us directly, 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:06.840 more than happy to have you on the podcast and 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:08.600 you can come in and you can see that we're 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:11.760 not discriminating against you, and we're more than happy for 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.680 you to have your say in full, not just on 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.919 a Facebook page. But I'll happily sit across the table 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.400 from you and listen to everything you have to say 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.440 and you can pour your heart out. But probably a 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:27.680 good idea, the third tick in the trifecta, Joshua, is 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.880 that you're not friends with David anymore, because I think 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.520 from the evidence we've presented so far, you're probably not 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.400 a good influence on each other. So it's probably a 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.200 step forward in your personal and social life. That you 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:43.800 don't associate anymore, you're probably a lot better off, even 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:45.839 though I'm not a qualified psychologist. 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.040 Now I also have some news, albeit I wish it 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:57.880 was better. But I reached out to the cleaners Robert 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:02.800 employed to clean up the scene after Amy's death. Now, 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.479 I've known about these people for a while, and I 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:09.040 won't name them because you know, they're small business and 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.400 I don't want it to reflect poorly on them. 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:14.280 They're professional cleaners, are they not? 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.680 Yeah, they're professional cleaners yet okay, And to tell you 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.200 the truth, I didn't hold out much hope because I 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.800 knew Anna had contacted them several years back with no success. 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:27.080 But Anna spoke to a woman who said her mum 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.440 and sister cleaned the scene and she would ask her 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:34.120 mom to call her. Now, this never happened, Limb, despite 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:38.880 Anna leaving at least three voice messages, so unsurprisingly, they 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:43.560 didn't speak to me either. But like Brydon's make Caid, 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.600 if there was a trial, they would, I would imagine, 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:49.920 be compelled to give evidence that at least be subpoened. 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:51.480 Many, Yeah, many would be called. 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.040 Yeah, and there are quite a few, right, there are 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:54.680 quite a few. 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.560 And I won't caid talk. 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:00.760 Well, I guess because he doesn't have to do. Okay, 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:02.080 it's a whole thing. 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.600 Right, He's not compelled. Yeah, yeah, he's. 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.440 Not compelled to talk. And even at an inquest, I 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:10.000 don't know. They don't have that power. 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.120 But Joshua Bryden's mate cade was at the Serpentine property 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:14.560 earlier in the day, wasn't he. 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.080 No, no, But he was the one that josh Brien 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.800 said he received text from as he was leaving the 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.640 property and he was supposed to pick him up from 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.320 the train station. It's all very convoluted, there's a lot there, 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.200 but it would be very interesting to hear from him, 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:32.760 for sure, it absolutely would be. 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.000 And look, I know we've touched on this before, but 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:41.280 Amy's case is not isolated. There are several suicides and 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:46.400 what's loosely termed accidents of women reported which are dubious 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:50.640 at best, and most of those are unfortunately DV related, 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.720 there's no doubt about that. However, statistics were never recorded 0:08:54.760 --> 0:09:00.479 because you know, they fell into that magical bucket of 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.160 mystery and a lot of sort of you know, misadventure 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.320 or natural causes or whatever you want to however you 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:09.520 want to carve it up. It just wasn't right now now, 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:13.440 ten years ago that changed. Charrell Moody is an anti 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:19.640 violence activist, femicide and child death researcher, and the creative 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:24.000 of Australia's only memorial to women and children lost to violence. 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.120 It's pretty amazing there's only one. Her projects include Australian 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:33.240 Femicide Watch, the Red Heart Campaign, She Matters, and the 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:37.920 Australian Femicide and Child Deathmap. Now. Charrell's been documenting the 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:42.360 killing of women and children since twenty fifteen here in Australia. 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:46.800 She's also a journalist of incredible note, having won many awards, 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.320 including two Walkleys, and after reporting on so many murders 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.600 of women, Charrell decided she had to do more. 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.480 It started as the Red Heart Campaign, which still exists 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.640 spart Australian Femicide Watch like a I guess it's just 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:05.920 an extension of that, but essentially about ten years ago, 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:13.160 as a journalist, I was doing a special campaign I guess, 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:17.760 on domestic violence for regional papers up in Queensland and 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:20.319 we were getting a lot of stories from women who 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.880 wanted to tell their stories and fair enough so they 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.240 should be able to editors were giving us kickback though, saying, 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.280 you know, it's too much bleak, it's too much domestic violence. 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:32.400 We've had enough for this. We can't publish all their stories, 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:35.640 and so the red Heart campaign started as a space 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:38.400 where people would share a red heart on their skin 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.960 and tell their stories. IT'SI kind of like to at 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.680 least give a platform for these people I had to 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.760 say no to. And of course a natural part of 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:53.000 that became documenting the killing of women and children, not 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.280 just as a result of domestic violence, but as a 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:59.880 result of all violence, because we lose women and children 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:04.880 in many ways. Yes, around sixty percent of their deaths 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.720 are due to domestic and family violence, but if we 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.360 don't count the other forty percent, we're not tracking their deaths. 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.440 We don't understand what's happening. You know, we can't really 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.640 get a grip on the actual toll of femicide and 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.320 child death in Australia. So yeah, so that's pretty much 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:25.160 how it started. But the reason that I do specifically 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:29.000 document the killing of women and children is because it's 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:34.240 a homage of sorts to the two little girls killed 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.559 by my stepfather. So he murdered Stacy and Tracy and 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:44.880 Sandra Dorothy Bacon, and it was a way of saying, well, 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.880 let's have a space for them where they can be 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:52.160 remembered forever, because the headlines no longer exist around them, 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:56.280 of course, a space for their families and their communities 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:01.840 to be able to remember and read their stories. I 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:05.520 guess the whole project is really to kind of pay 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.840 back in the only way that I can for what 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:14.119 he took away. Clearly, this will never change their stories, 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:18.040 but I have always believed that their stories can change 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:22.160 the future for women and girls and children, and so 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:27.040 that's why the Femocide and child death projects exist. 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:32.680 Well, so, Charrelle, obviously you were in this space already, 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.319 but when you started to track it, were you surprised 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:37.760 by what you found out? 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:42.679 Since I think the things that surprised me was the 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:46.439 rates that we lose women and children and the contexts, 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.640 like all of the context because all of the discussion, 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:54.720 almost all the discussion around in particular femicide in Australia 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:59.360 focuses on domestic and family violence as the context, and look, 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.320 there is no doubt that is the largest context for 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:07.800 the killing of women in particular. However, what we do 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:12.120 is we freeze out the discussion around women who are 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:16.840 killed in other contexts, so associate violence and stranger violence. 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:21.079 By not having those discussions, we don't talk about forty 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.200 of deaths, and that's a significant number of deaths to 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.680 just ignore, basically, and we don't talk about the funding 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.360 that's needed to prevent those deaths and the policy that's 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:37.120 needed and the changes in the law that's needed. We 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:42.600 just ignore an entire section of women killed. And the 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:44.959 only time that we don't ignore those deaths is when 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:48.280 there's a death that attracts very high media attention. 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.400 Now I can see where Charelle's coming from here, because 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.360 while often violent deaths are mentioned in the media, very 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:59.600 few are part of justice campaigns. A lot has to 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.400 line up to make that possible. Charelle also noted that 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.520 while there is a big focus on DV deaths where 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.600 men are the perpetrators, which is understandable because they are 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.640 the majority, let's face it, that's the fact a very 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:17.720 significant number of femicides don't fit into that category. 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:23.240 My work is aiming to bring a spotlight onto all 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:27.840 killings of all women and children, and by putting the 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.160 information out there and having it collected in one place. 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:38.640 It's a space where policy makers, journalists, politicians, anti violence 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:43.400 sector where they can access this information and they can 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.200 see the patterns. And one of the things that I 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.200 found with my research, so I have a very extensive 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:54.080 database offline, the patterns are there. So the same patterns 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:58.680 that underpin domestic and family violence killings of women actually 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:03.120 underpin the kill of women by their neighbors, their friends, 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:07.800 their bosses, their colleagues, by their associates, as well as 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:10.240 the stranger violence killing. So we can actually see a 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:14.280 pattern across them, and we see patterns of sexism, misogyny, 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.560 the particular factors, the particular drivers, so factors like alcohol, 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:24.160 drug use, mental health problems and all of that sort 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.760 of stuff. So we actually get a really good idea 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.000 of what the patterns are, who's doing the killing, what 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.520 the factors are behind them, and what the drivers are, 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:34.640 and so we get we just get a much better 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:36.840 overview of why women are being killed. 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.600 So what are the other factors? Mainly are we talking 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.560 alcohol and drugs primarily? 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.120 Yeah, so alcohol, drugs, and mental health are key factors. 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:48.840 So when we're talking about drivers and factors, it's really 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.080 really important to understand the difference. So the drivers are 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.720 the things at a society or level, the way that 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.880 women are viewed, for example, the way that women have 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:06.080 into categories like mothering, maternal instinct, the way that we 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:11.000 have sexist jokes, sexism, misogyny. So those are drivers. Factors 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:15.240 are those things that elements that played a part in 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.560 the violence. They're not the cause of violence, but they 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:23.440 were an element of the violence. For example, when someone 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.160 is using ice and they kill a person, that's a factor. 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.760 It doesn't excuse the violence, but we know that this 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.880 drug played a part in it. Yeah, the same as 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:39.960 obviously gambling, alcohol, and mental health. You know, so usually 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:44.800 addiction and mental health are the two big factors, very common. 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:50.800 Mental health and addiction are almost always present in many killings. 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.120 Can I ask you about the statistics of femicide From 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:55.880 what I see, it seems to be increasing. 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.960 Yes, definitely, definitely. Over the last sixteen months, we've seen 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.680 a huge increase. Last year was the biggest year of 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:06.160 femosides i've documented in ten years now. My database does 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.480 go back to white settlement. It's not complete because it's 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.959 a very big job to complete it, but I believe 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:19.800 I've captured every known and suspected femicide since mid nineteen 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.720 nineties to now, so it's definitely the biggest, the biggest level. 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.359 As of today, we're sitting on one hundred and three 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:32.479 unlawful killings of women last year and we're on twenty 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:36.720 four unlawful killings of women this year. I believe that 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:40.560 this year is kind of flattening out, so probably going 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:43.879 back to the expected one woman killed every four or 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.959 five days. At the start of last year, we saw 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:52.240 the platforming of some really very bad people. So obviously 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.159 Donald Trump came to the foe again because of his 0:17:55.320 --> 0:18:01.200 big for the presidential position. We saw flicks are actually 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.480 platforming quite a few very bad people. There was a 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:06.440 whole bunch of them. There was just all of these 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:12.560 blokes being platformed who have histories of violence. We have 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:16.360 seen thankfully the old MAT's been moved off, but Andrew 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:20.920 Tait on Spotify, so the platforming of these men really 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.240 there was just a really huge amount of platforming of 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:26.040 them last year and it kind of coincided with that 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:30.120 peak in femocide. But the peak in femocide has been global, 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.440 not just Australia. So something really big shifted last year 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:36.840 and women paid the price for that, and it feels 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.840 like it's it's still happening. This year, the deaths of 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.399 evened out, Like officially, I feel like the deaths have 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:48.399 evened out, but it must be. You have to remember 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:53.040 that I'm actually monitoring multiple deaths that I haven't published 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:55.800 because I just haven't been able to get solid confirmation. 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.960 But I would say that there's at least six per 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:05.000 potential femicides that I'm yet to officially declare from this year. 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:07.879 What are the factors that you have to count in 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:12.080 for femicide, you know, because we've got suicides and accidents too. 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.800 Yeah, this is the problem. So the organization it's called 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.600 Australian Femicide Watch because most women are killed as a 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.280 result of femicide, so they are killed by men. We 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.879 do need to keep into account that I do actually 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:28.240 document the killing of women by women very rare, super 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:32.240 rare occurrences. Last year, for instance, ninety six percent of 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:36.240 women killed were lost amount violence. But I still document 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:40.159 those women for a number of reasons. But for me 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:46.040 to declare it, I need confirmation solidly from family and 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:52.600 all police. The problem is policemen always declare it. So 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:59.200 for instance, we have a death in Queensland that I've declared. 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:03.800 The police have told her family they're investigating her death 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:08.480 as a homicide, but they haven't declared it officially. So 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.840 it's based on my communication with her family and sources 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:17.560 within the Queensland Police Force to not every homicide is 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:20.880 declared officially. Western Australia is really shit at that. They 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:25.720 often leave deaths out of the public domain and I 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.720 find out about them from family and find out that, hey, 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.439 this person's been charged with murder or manslaughter, but the 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.280 cops never said anything. But yeah, like for me, the 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:40.280 minimum is police confirmation and all confirmation from family, and 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.800 I'm happy to take police confirmation if it comes as 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.880 a source, if it's not official, as long as there's 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:49.920 a lining up and everything just coheses. 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.000 Okay, So how do you do that? Do you contact 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:56.040 the media units? What's your communication channels with police? 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.960 So it's usually just through sources in the police force. 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:03.520 Almost all deaths are confirmed officially, but some of them 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:06.359 they won't say to you. The media unit won't tell you, 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:10.119 and so you go to your source within. So if 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.679 you have a source in homicide, very very helpful, so 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.240 they'll tell you officially off the record. Okay, Yeah, it's 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.880 just about using your contacts. Like as a journalist, that's 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:20.400 what you do. 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:24.359 So how do they compare throughout the state. So WA 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:25.879 isn't they're not as open. 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:30.000 So in the last two years, I have two deaths, 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:33.520 one from the year previous one from last year that 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:37.840 WA police never publicized, and I found out through their families. 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:40.760 Their families have come to me and said, hey, this 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.720 is my person, this person's charged with manslaughter. Why aren't 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.960 they on your database? And it's simpler because there's been 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:52.080 no publicity around their deaths, and so you kind of 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:54.800 you know, you have to work your way backwards and 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:59.439 really work the contacts to get that confirmation. But WA 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:02.879 is really it's consistently bad. The rest of their states 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:07.439 are okay, and territories okay, s WA's the worst in Australia. Yeah, 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:10.720 for me, definitely, I mean there are just I mean, 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:14.720 obviously we're chatting about that Amy Wensley situation. But I 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:16.639 want to give you an example of a death in 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:20.720 WA that I'm monitoring at the moment. A mum to 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:26.159 a toddler was found a few months ago dead in 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:29.439 a water tank. The water tank had a foot of 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:34.240 water in a maximum. Her toddler was beside her body. 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:39.720 She was discovered by someone who heard the baby crying 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:42.560 in the tank. So someone's walking by, they've heard the 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:45.520 baby crying, they've come to the tank. They found mum dead, 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:50.320 baby perfectly fine. Police were called in and the first 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:54.119 thing they said to her family was she killed herself. 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:59.040 And her family have said to them, but her baby's there, 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:01.480 and she would never have killed herself, A because she 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:04.159 has her baby, and b because her baby's next to her. 0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:08.760 So the police then found out that her former partner, 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:11.960 who had been stalking her, was in the area, was 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:15.760 within a few kilometers radius, was actually there at the time. 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:21.080 The police have not advertised this death. They've not publicized 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:24.040 her death in any way. There's been no public communication 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:27.240 about it. Her family is the one that's come to 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.359 me and said, we don't know what's going on, we 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.679 don't understand why they're doing this. Is there anything that 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:37.159 you can do? So I spoke to them about a 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:40.120 month ago, So for quite a number of weeks after 0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:44.320 her death, they were being told suicide, suicide, suicide. Only 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:47.040 about a month ago did they bring family members in 0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:50.160 to say oh, we're just gonna do some interviews with you. 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:54.359 Those interviews are still ongoing, so it took them quite 0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:57.440 a while just to do interviews with family members. It's 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:01.080 regional detectives who are handling this to a very small 0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:04.680 unit of detectives up in the remote regional area where 0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:08.480 she was found. But the automatic assumption was woman in 0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:12.800 a water tank has killed herself. Her family swears black 0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:15.720 and blue that that is not what's happened. So we 0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:18.359 have so many issues here. We have the police jumping 0:24:18.400 --> 0:24:22.240 to a conclusion, there's no coroner's report, there's no proper investigation, 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:25.119 and we also have police not actually letting us know 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:27.200 that a woman has been found dead in a water 0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:30.240 tank or dead under suspicious circumstances. 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:33.119 Isn't there a legal responsibility for that to occur? 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:35.399 No, well not to tell us. 0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:35.800 They don't. 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:38.639 Police don't have to communicate anything to the public. 0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:41.560 So they have to obviously record it internally. 0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:43.560 But yeah, yeah, of course it's got to go through 0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:47.280 to the coroner. Like you know, there's obviously the things 0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:51.040 that they have to follow. But as for putting out 0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:53.919 immedia rely saying a woman's being found dead in suspicious 0:24:53.920 --> 0:24:57.239 circumstances at this location. They don't have to do that. 0:24:57.320 --> 0:25:00.159