1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,079 Speaker 1: Hello, this is the Happy Family's podcast. Today on the 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: pod something a little bit different. Recently, I was invited 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: onto the Your Kids Next Read podcast with Alison Tate 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: and Meghan Daily for a discussion around how we can 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: get our boys reading more instead of having their heads 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: stuck in screens. As the name suggests, Your Kid's Next 7 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: Read is all about books and reading for children of 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: all ages. Allison Tate is a children's author, writer and speaker. 9 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: She's written a number of books for kids, including adventure 10 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: series The Map Maker Chronicles and Maven and Reeve. Meghan 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: Daly is a teacher, librarian, author and children's literacy educator. 12 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: Meghan's been awarded the Australian Teacher Librarian of the Year 13 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: and the Queensland Teacher Librarian of the Year, as well 14 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: as authoring the best selling book Raising Readers and I 15 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: was also joined on this episode by children's author Matt Stanton. 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: You would know him, I would imagine from the Funny 17 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: Kids books, the Board series as well as the books 18 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: that Drive Kids Crazy. We'll dive into that discussion next 19 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: stay with us. Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families podcast 20 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: Real Parenting Solutions, every single day on Australia's most downloaded 21 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,559 Speaker 1: parenting podcast. This is doctor Justin Coulson. Today on the pod, 22 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: we're replaying an excerpt from the Your Kids Next Read 23 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: podcast with Alison Tate and Megan Daily as well as 24 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: Matt Stanton. I was a guest on the podcast episode 25 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: discussing how we can get our boys reading and addressing 26 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: some of the alarming statistics around boys and literacy. We 27 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: started off by discussing some of those stats and fleshed 28 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: out just what we need to do as parents to 29 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: get and keep our boys reading. Hope you enjoyed discussion 30 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: and check the show notes for the link to the 31 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: full episode. 32 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 2: First of all, I think it's important to make it 33 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: clear that reading has declined across the board. Meaghan and 34 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: I talk about kids and reading all the time, and 35 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 2: I think the discussion about boys and reading has been 36 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 2: going on and flaring up since I had my first 37 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 2: son twenty one years ago. Would you agree with that, 38 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 2: Megan Daily? 39 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: Yeah? 40 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 4: Absolutely. Our longitudinal studies in Australia, UK and the US 41 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 4: all demonstrate that overall reading rates have declined and that 42 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 4: isn't just a boys in reading issue, even though that's 43 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 4: often where the conversation does flare up. The debate about 44 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 4: boys and reading has been going on for decades. Boys 45 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 4: on average are more likely than girls to read less frequently, 46 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 4: read less widely, and disengage earlier from reading for pleasure. 47 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 4: This has been documented in literacy testing results, publishing trends, 48 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 4: the media, and teacher observations. But it's also important to 49 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 4: recognize that not all boys fit into this pattern and 50 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 4: not all girls escape it. 51 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: And I think, you know, widely reported recent stats from 52 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 2: the Australian Bureau of Statistics show that, you know, for 53 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 2: gen Z, so you know, I guess our fives and 54 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: sixes are probably are they at the bottom end of 55 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: that quat sure where those lines are. But ten percent 56 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 2: of boys are participating in reading thirteen two point two 57 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 2: percent of girls. So we're not exactly like leaving in 58 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: bounds there either. But I think what we're seeing this 59 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 2: time around and this year, it feels to me like 60 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: there's an urgency around the data that we haven't seen before. 61 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 2: And I'm wondering, is it different now or does it 62 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: just feel different like justin Perhaps you could give us 63 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: some thoughts as to why it feels so much more 64 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 2: urgent at present. 65 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a data guy. I've got a pH d 66 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: in psychology, and all I do is look at numbers 67 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: and then figure out what that means in real life. 68 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: So we've already cover to a few of them. But 69 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: what I'm interested in is picture of farm gate or 70 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: even front door of your house. At the hinge point 71 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: when the door moves, there's not a lot of movement, 72 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: but down the road, like the downstream effects all the 73 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: way at the other end of the door or the 74 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: other end of the farm gate, a little movement near 75 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: the hinge to enormous movement down the other end. So 76 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: you're sharing stats about primary school, but let's extrapolate that. 77 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: Let's build that out and have a look at the 78 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: progression into high school. If you have a look at 79 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: and I'll only share two quick stats because we really 80 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: need to talk about practical things more than the numbers. 81 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: But if you have a look at year nine PISA results. 82 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: OKAYPIS is the Program for International Student Assessment. Girls are 83 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: outpacing the boys by thirty eight points on reading scores. 84 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: It puts that is the equivalent thirty eight points is 85 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: meaningless without context. That's the equivalent of one full academic 86 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: year ahead of the boys. And if we have a 87 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: look at the twenty twenty four Naplan results three and 88 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: four year seven girls, that's seventy three percent or seventy 89 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: five percent. Technically, seventy three percent is what the results 90 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: showed were strong or exceeding expectations in writing, but it 91 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: was only a smidge and over half of the boys 92 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: who achieved the same. The biggest concern for me is 93 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: by year nine and eighth boys, about about twelve percent 94 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: of boys are functionally illiterate. It's not an intelligence issue. 95 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: Is this is the downstream effects of boys not reading 96 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: in kin garden, first grade, second grade, third grade, fourth grade, 97 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: that by the time they're big enough to have their 98 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: own screen, laptop, iPad device, whatever it is, they don't 99 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 1: have any interest in reading at all. And why would 100 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: they because the cheap hit of dope mean that they 101 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: get from a twelve second TikTok is stimulating in a 102 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: way that I mean, it's hollow, it's shallow. It will 103 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: not give you the same sense of engagement purpose meaning satisfaction. 104 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: It won't even cover your boredom the same way. But 105 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: it's doing the job. The neural architecture of our boys 106 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: has been hijacked on our girls been hijacked by the 107 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: best brains on the planet, and that's where the battle 108 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: is being won, you. 109 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: Know, I mean, this is obviously a discussion we can't 110 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 2: have without bringing up the role of screens and social 111 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: media into lives of our kids and our boys today. 112 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: And justin your review of that Netflix series Adolescent's got 113 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 2: huge traction around this, like there was so much discussion. 114 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 2: But how do we, like, I mean, it's one thing 115 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: to talk about it, It's one thing to kind of 116 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: have that sort of like massive uptake of interest around 117 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 2: the around that particular series, etc. But how do we 118 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: encourage them to put that stuff down and pick up 119 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: a book instead? Like I find with boys, you've got 120 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: to give them a reason. What reason are we giving them? 121 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: So there's this thing called I mean everyone's heard of it, 122 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: but in the nine and seventies it didn't even exist, 123 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: This thing called intrinsic motivation. While it existed, but it 124 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: hadn't been studied. And intrinsic motivation means that you do 125 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: something for the love of it. If we have a 126 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: look at what drives a lot of people say, how 127 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: do I motivate somebody or how motivated are they? And 128 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: it's the wrong question. Alfie Khen, who wrote book called 129 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: Punish Bury Awards, says, instead of asking how motivated is someone, 130 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,799 Speaker 1: ask how is someone motivated? And there's these different forms 131 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: of motivation. So everyone knows external motivation and intrinsic motivation, 132 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: but there's a bunch of others in the middle. Fundamentally, 133 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:55,679 Speaker 1: if we want our kids to have those deeper forms 134 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: of motivation, we need to put them in environments that 135 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: are what psychology researchers call need satisfying environments. So I 136 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: need satisfying environment is one where a I feel like 137 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: I have a sense of choice or if not choice, 138 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: like for example, driving on the left hand side of 139 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: the road in Australia, you don't have any choice, but 140 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: we do it willingly because we do it volitionally. We 141 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: do it choicefully because we get that it makes sense 142 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: to drive on the left. It would be chaotic, it 143 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: would be traumatic if we drove wherever we wanted. So 144 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: we drive on the left because it makes sense. So 145 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: that sense of autonomy or choice isn't I get to 146 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: have carte blanche and do whatever I want? It's oh yeah, 147 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: I see value in this activity, identify it's worth as 148 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: an activity for me to do so, therefore I choicefully 149 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: step into it. Reading has to feel choiceful. That's the 150 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: first key ingredient for a need satisfying environment. The second 151 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: thing is that reading, or any activity you want to 152 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: have those deeper forms of motivation, it has to feel 153 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: like it's something that I can be competent in, so 154 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: that I can be masterful ad And unfortunately the stats 155 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: show really clearly bit too many others, too many of 156 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: our boys do not feel masterful when they pick up 157 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: a book. They don't feel competent. They actually feel incapable. 158 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense. It's not working for And 159 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: the third thing is what we call relatedness or a 160 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: sense of mutual and reciprocal I feel like I belong here. 161 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: And while in interpersonal context that's easy like you, Allison 162 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: and me and Matt and Megan, we all get to 163 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: sit together and feel like we're in this connected conversation. 164 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: But a book does the same thing. The books that 165 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: our children pick up, if they are willing to engage 166 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: in it in a relational way, the book talks to them, 167 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: the book helps them to feel things. But if they 168 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: don't feel competent, if they feel like they're being forced, 169 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: or if they feel like the book isn't speaking to them, 170 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: they won't read it. Therefore, And I know this is 171 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: kind of a technical answer, but our job is to 172 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: help them to feel like they get that it matters 173 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: and they want to do it because they feel like 174 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: they can do it at a reasonable level and it 175 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: speaks to them. My number one salution is fine books 176 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: that they want to read, like if you've got a 177 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: kid that if you've got a kid that loves rugby league, 178 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: go and buy Rugby League Weekly. I don't even know 179 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: if that exists, by the way, I'm making it up. 180 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 2: No, it does, and we talk about it all the time. 181 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 2: We are constantly saying like, if they want to read 182 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: about rugby, then well let's just go hard down the 183 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: rugby road for sure. 184 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally. On The Happy Family's Podcast today, a 185 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: discussion about boys and reading, taken from the Your Kid's 186 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: Next Read podcast. Back with more right after the break, 187 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: stay with us. 188 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: So, Matt, I'm just going to come back to you 189 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 2: for a minute here with this one because there's a 190 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: few things I want to unpack here. So there was 191 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 2: the first thing I wanted to say was when we 192 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: talk about choiceness and we talk about relating and stuff, 193 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 2: you mentioned that when you do your school visits, you're 194 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 2: trying to make it look like you're not trying to 195 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 2: turn these kids into bookworms. Is that, like, what are 196 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 2: you seeing as some of the biggest barriers to reading 197 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: for boys? Is it that peer pressure thing? Because we 198 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 2: went to a literary long reach last week and we 199 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,599 Speaker 2: were talking in the green room afterwards, and one of 200 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: the authors was saying that he had, you know, hit 201 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 2: us the group, you know, like, you know what, why 202 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 2: does everyone love reading? And blah blah blah, and a 203 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 2: couple of kids had said, you know, it's these it's 204 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: that and this this. This boy put his hand up 205 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: and he's like, yeah, no, it's for nerds, it's for deeps. 206 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 2: So there is that certain sense of boys not seeing 207 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 2: themselves as readers. Are you seeing that as well? 208 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 3: Yeah? I think so. 209 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 5: I think we we have a couple of interesting things 210 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 5: going on where the role that technology is playing in these. 211 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 3: Kids' lives and I'm a dad in my kids lives. 212 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 5: Is is taking up some of that space that kind 213 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 5: of I go, I go to be alone in space. 214 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 3: So the space that when I was a kid it 215 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 3: was reading, reading was there. 216 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 5: I'll go and do something on my bed for a while, 217 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 5: I'll fill in space. We've never filled that spot with 218 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 5: tech and and so that often means that the idea, 219 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 5: especially for a kid who already spends a decent amount 220 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 5: of time isolating with a device, to then suggest that 221 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 5: they take a book and go and isolate. That's just 222 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 5: not appealing at all. And what I'm seeing and thinking 223 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,599 Speaker 5: a lot about is how kids are looking for connection 224 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 5: and the fact that books and reading need to kind 225 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 5: of stay anchored and connected in that space. So that's 226 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 5: why I spend a lot of time talking about parents 227 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 5: reading to kids and how important that is, because we 228 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 5: need to create these positive moments of connection around books 229 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 5: that are relational, and then we need to look for opportunities, 230 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 5: especially with boys, to. 231 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 3: Connect them. And that's where I think it's around stories. 232 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 3: That's why I try to talk about stories often more 233 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 3: than books, because we all love stories. Stories are innately human, 234 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 3: and we love sharing and them kids all kids love 235 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 3: hearing and sharing stories. So what I'm trying to do 236 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 3: in the way that I speak to kids in schools. 237 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 3: Is not say you know, take this book and go 238 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 3: and read it on your own by yourself. I'm trying 239 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 3: to say, there are these amazing stories in here you 240 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 3: need to connect in like, come and see what you 241 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 3: can find. 242 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 2: Okay, So justin I'm interested in your idea, your thoughts 243 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 2: on the idea of boys not seeing themselves as readers, 244 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 2: which is something that has come out in the discourse. 245 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: You know that there's this idea that reading. They don't 246 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 2: see a role for themselves in the reading culture because 247 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 2: they think it's for girls, or it can be you know, 248 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 2: quite female dominated. And I will say right now that 249 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 2: I would say ninety eight percent of the members of 250 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: the Your Kids Next Read community are female. So there's 251 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 2: a lot of you know, a lot of women in 252 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 2: there trying to encourage reading in kids and things like that. 253 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: So do you think that's do you think that's is 254 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: that a thing? Is that something that the boys are 255 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 2: taking on board that there's a lot of women doing this, 256 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 2: But it's not for me. 257 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: One of the most fascinating findings as I've looked in 258 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: the fields of anthropology, sociology, psychology, and philosophy is a 259 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: sense of agreement across cultures and through history that masculinity 260 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: is learned, masculinity is constructed. In other words, you learn 261 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: masculinity as a boy by watching the men around you. 262 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: So how many of the boys in the classes that 263 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: you guys are talking to, in the grade levels that 264 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: you guys are talking to. How many of those boys 265 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: go home and see their dad sitting on the couch 266 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: with a book in his hand. How many of them 267 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: are having men model searching through pages, looking for a 268 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: quote or finding that incredible story that they want to read. 269 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: How many of these kids, male or female, they've got parents. 270 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: I mean, this is all about getting kids reading right. 271 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: How many have parents who sit down and say, hey, 272 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: let me read to you. I'm going to read to 273 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: you every night. One thing that really is an obstacle, 274 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: especially around confidence, is some kids just they won't get 275 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: going because a book feels too hard. And yet it's 276 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: the hard books that grabbed them. When I was in 277 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: grade three, Missus Brewster was the librarian in Niagara Park 278 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: Primary School and I rented higher borrowed the Hobbits, and 279 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: she pulled out the stamp and she said, this is 280 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: the day it's back. And I took Tolkien home with 281 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: me and I started to read. It was just too hard. 282 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: I was in grade three. It was way beyond me. 283 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: I brought it back. She asked me how I liked that, 284 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: and I made up a great, big story about how 285 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: much I've loved it, and she said, which parts do 286 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: you like most? And I came unraveled because I hadn't 287 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: read it, and I made something up. And I can 288 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: see it in her eyes. She was like, you deceitful 289 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: little man. You did not read that at all. She 290 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: didn't say it, she was very polite, but I didn't 291 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: read it. Now if my parents, if my dad had 292 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: seen the Hobbit in my school library bag and said, 293 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: justin of the Hobbits, such a great book, would you 294 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: be a okay if I read that to you? There's 295 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: the relational stuff. I get to look over Dad's shoulder 296 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: as he's reading. So I'm developing competence and I'm choicefully 297 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: bringing him into this environment where I start to and 298 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: I just can't imagine how that would have changed my feelings. 299 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: So what I do with my kids, I have six 300 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: of them, is I find books that are a bit 301 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: beyond them, and I say to them, i'd love to 302 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: read this book because I think you're going to love it. 303 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: Back to your point, for boys to love reading, they've 304 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: got to see men who love reading. I don't know 305 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: if there's anything else I can say that's more potent. Well, 306 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: I really hope you enjoyed something a little different on 307 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: the show. Today we will link to the full episode 308 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: of Boys and Reading on the Your Kids Next Breed podcast, 309 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: and a big thank you to Alison Tate and Meghan 310 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: Daily for allowing us to share some of that episode 311 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: with you. The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin 312 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: Roland from Bridge Media. Mim Hammond's provides research, admin and 313 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: additional support. And if you think this podcast is going 314 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: to be helpful for your family somebody else's, please share 315 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: it because if you click those couple of buttons and share, 316 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: it takes you about ten or fifteen seconds pass it 317 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: along it helps other families to be happier. If you'd 318 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: like more info and more resources to make your family happier, 319 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: visit us at Happy Families dot com dot a u