WEBVTT - Zac Williams - Ordineroli Speaking 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:09.440 Ordinarily Speaking. I've always been a proud Indigenous man, but 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:21.840 now it's time to speak upon time. 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.640 Hello and welcome to Ordinarily Speaking, a podcast that celebrates 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:36.360 resilience in sport. I'm narrowly Meadows. Today's guest is AFL 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:41.320 star Zach Williams. The former GWS Giant and now Carlton recruit, 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.600 has overcome plenty of adversity in his life. Zach grew 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.320 up in a small town in New South Wales, raised 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.120 by his mum and big sister after they lost his 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:55.000 dad at a very young age. Last year, Zach made 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:57.360 the call to leave Sydney and moved to Melbourne to 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.920 join the team he supported as a kid, Carlton. It 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.679 was a lucrative deal that created plenty of headlines, but 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:09.240 behind the scenes, his family was going through heartache. This 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.440 is a story of a young man who says he 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.119 owes everything to two strong women in his life, and 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.800 now at twenty six, Zach has found his voice as 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.959 a proud Indigenous man. If this chat is triggering for you, 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:26.840 please ask for help. Lifeline and Beyond Blue are just 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.440 a couple of places you can go. I hope you 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:55.400 enjoy the chat. 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:45.800 Well. 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.000 Zaki thanks so much for spending some time with me. 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:50.720 Tell me about the country town you grew up in, 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.520 because we're talking proper country country town, are we. 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.600 Yeah, thanks for having me on you. But yeah, so 0:01:56.960 --> 0:02:00.520 full country on the river. I think I was not 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:02.120 too short that the population is now, but when I was, 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.640 there was about two thousand people. When I graduated year 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:08.560 twelve at my local high school. There was only I 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.760 think just around maybe less than thirty kids, maybe thirty 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.640 kids in my year twelve class, so it was a 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.120 very small party for us after we graduated. But yeah, 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:20.440 I grew up in a Rendra. It's very close to 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.399 eating where a few of the other boys I played 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:24.760 football with over my time. I'm from as well, and 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:29.359 we'll get area if people know where that is. But yeah, 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:31.880 I'm being I was up in Sydney for nine years 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.720 and now at you. Sorry, now I'm down in Melbourne. 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:37.880 So tell me about your indigenous heritage. 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.799 Yeah, so I'm a gradery man from obviously country as 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.080 well as like I just said, you know, growing up 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:49.720 indigenous in Dungea, it was a very I guess divided community. 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:53.360 There was a bit of racism, but you know, I 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.360 didn't really take too much notice to that sort of 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:58.680 growing up, you used to it and he just brushes 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.040 off you pretty quickly. But then once I got into 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:04.359 the I guess AFL and sort of saw it on 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.680 a national scale. And now they're a bit more mature, 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:10.799 sort of hits a lot more now when I think 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.240 back to my time living and growing up in our indra, So, 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.760 you know, I was tough at times. You know, my 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:20.240 mum is the Aboriginal liaison at the Narranger High School, 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.760 so at the local high school there, so she, you know, 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.040 obviously has a lot of connections with all the families 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.400 Indigenous families back home, so which a lot of my 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.280 family as well, a lot of cousins and stuff like 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.000 that back home. But you know, I was tough growing 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:38.560 up in a you know, very fifty to fifty indigenous 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.480 non indigenous community, so there was a lot of conflict, 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.920 a lot of disagreements with people's and but you know, 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.320 now that I'm a bit older and hopefully I can 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.720 go back home and help out the community and maybe 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.120 do some stuff, some community work back home and around 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:54.960 the region to get the awareness out and try and 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:56.240 stamp out racism. 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:00.240 What do you know now, that when you reflect, you 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:02.000 think differently upon now. 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:07.640 I guess maybe just taking notice of the little slight 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:12.400 racism comments or little actions that people do, whether they're 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.520 knowingly doing it or not. I think back when I 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:17.680 was growing up, I didn't take notice. It, Like I said, 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:19.600 just washes off you pretty quickly and you're like, oh, 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.599 that was a bit racist or whatever, and then you 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:25.080 just get on with your day or whatever. But now 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.279 that I'm a bit older, and if I hear something 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.280 in the news or you know, there was my teammate now, 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:32.520 Eddie Betts has obviously gone through a lot of that stuff. 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:36.120 So even stuff with him and other Indigenous boys in 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.560 the AFL, or when I'm talking to mum about what's 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:41.800 going on in the community. You know, there's little things 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.520 that are just hit me a lot harder, I guess, 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.800 and make me take more notice about racism back home. 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:50.960 How does it make you feel when you feel like 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.240 something's racist and it's coming at you. 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:58.400 Yeah, I guess first initial reactions, I get angry about 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.800 it and a bit frustrated, but it's just turning to more. 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.400 It's sad really, like that it's twenty twenty one and 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:09.080 there's still a lot of bad racism in Australia, and 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.800 you know, small country towns, obviously it hits a lot, 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.839 a lot harder because it's my home country town where 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:17.680 I grew up. And obviously it's hard to stamp about 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.560 racism and everyone's got to be on the same page 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:22.719 and be educated enough to be on the same page. 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.200 But it's just it's really sad to be honest, Like, 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.680 you know, my nieces she's only eight years old and 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:32.159 she's already caught racism where she's in Aubury. So if 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:36.120 a little eight year old girls coping racism, then bloody ell, 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.240 you know we haven't. We've gone nowhere over the last 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.480 fifty odds, so you use that. You know, we've actually 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.479 become part of the referendum Indigenous people. So it's just sad. 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:47.800 It makes me upset more than you know, you want 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.720 to be angry about it and everything, but you know, 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:54.280 if I get angry about it, then I'm no better 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.200 than the people that are given out the racism. So 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:58.920 they're auditioning it out. So I just I just feel 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.360 sad to be honest, and hopefully over the next few years, 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.880 while I've sort of you know, on the afhold stage 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.760 and I'm playing down Melbourne. I can sort of do 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:08.960 a bit more for my community. 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:11.040 What did your niece cop? 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.240 So they were watching I'm not too sure what the 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.600 movie was, but my sister rang me one day. I'm 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.239 just absolutely human and furious. They were watching a movie, 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.800 you know, about the Stolen Generation. I think it was 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.120 one day in class and you know, one of her 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.560 classmates actually just said, oh right, you should be on 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:31.960 TV with you know, like go back to where you're 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.040 from and all that kind of stuff. So for young kids, 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.400 she's only seven, eight years old. For young kids already 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:41.080 know that by that age, it's it's quite disappointing to 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.960 be honest. And like I said before, you know, my 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.400 teammate goes through through a lot of that as well. 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.640 Now in Eddie Bett's like he's copped. It's pretty well 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:51.560 well documented that he cops a fair bit on the 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:55.520 national stage. And you know that's two different ages. Like 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.479 there's Eddie who's you know, thirty odd and in his 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:00.760 back end of his career, and then I got my 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.640 young niece who's eight years old, who's competent at school, 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:05.880 and you know, these it's not the kids felt that 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.520 this young kid. Don't even know what they're really talking about. 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.160 You know, they're probably just saying it, you know, just 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:14.080 to try and get on my niece's nerves or you know, 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.160 trying to do something just to make her angry. But 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.240 you know, it's just sad that it's happening to young 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:19.760 kids like this. 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.960 When you first get the call from your sister about that, 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:24.400 how do you feel in that moment. 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.120 Oh, you know, obviously I'm not her parent, but I'm 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.920 her uncle, and it makes me want to drive down 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.640 to the school and you know, say what I need 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.400 to say to the school. But obviously platforms like this 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:40.520 your podcast and talking about it when an Indigenous Round 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.680 comes around, or whether I'm doing interviews and I need 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:47.120 to speak up on things, it's really important because it's 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:51.520 obviously still a massive issue in the nation that racism 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:53.080 is still around. And you know, but I don't think 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.160 people realize how much it actually affects not just the families, 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.320 but everyone, like the whole Indigenous community when people be racist. 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.400 So's just sad. But you know, people just need to 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.560 be educated and they want to have to learn, like 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.160 they don't want to learn. Then it just shows how 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.920 much of arrogance. They got to want to not learn 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:11.720 about the history of Australia. 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:13.440 I guess what do you say to your niece? Do 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:14.520 you talk to her about it? 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.480 Yeah, well, she gets very self conscious about because she's 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.520 fairly dark skin, very she's quite a ten young girl, 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:25.200 so a lot of people know she's Indigenous just from 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:27.160 the color of her skin. And then she starts getting 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:31.840 self conscious about the color of her skin. And I 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.400 just try and reinforce her that she's beautiful with her skin, 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.400 like she shouldn't shy away from being who she is 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:40.640 and being proud of being Indigenous. And you know, she's 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.560 still quite young, so it's good that she's sort of 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.080 learning to, you know, be comfortable in her skin and 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.640 be comfortable with her culture. And like I said, it's 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:52.560 just sad that's someone that young's got to cop it, 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:57.200 you know what I mean. So it is quite I 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.560 get quite furious about it, but it's more just sorry 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:03.480 for people that have to go through it. Like and 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:05.840 it's obviously personal to me because it's my little Nicks 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.800 And she comes home crying and upset, and you know, 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:11.880 my sister keeps her home from school the next day 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:15.480 just because she's worried about going to school. But you know, 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.480 my sister's pretty good at She's a strong black woman, 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:22.160 so she's pretty good at reinforcing her children that just 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.520 don't worry about what other people say. Obviously, you need 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.800 to speak up for yourself. And it's hard to tell 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.040 and that your old kid. Sort of the circumstances and 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.240 how serious it is that racism is still a thing, 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:33.720 So it's pretty hard. 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:37.240 It's so heartbreaking here, isn't it in twenty twenty one 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:39.640 that we're having this conversation. 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.200 Yeah, it's like you said, it's twenty twenty one and 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:48.120 it's still a massive issue unless people like Eddie Bett's 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.120 or Adam Good's bring it up. It's sort of it 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.640 just seems like sometimes it gets swept under the carpet. 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:56.160 And in the AFL there's a massive, massive range of 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:59.079 multicultural people in the game now and indigenous people. So 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.040 I think that fella doing a good job at the 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.199 moment of educating and doing as much as I can 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:11.240 to get multiculture and indigenous people's educate people on their cultures. 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.360 But there's always more that people can do. Obviously, if 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:16.319 there's stuff going on back with my local town with 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.000 my niece and stuff like that. So there's always more 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.120 work to do. But yeah, it's just sad that it's 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:22.560 still a massive issue. 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:26.720 You bring up Adam Goods, how did that impact you 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.960 at the time, because you were a young footy player 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.160 trying to make your own way in the game and 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:37.720 then this situation arises. How did it make you feel 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:41.199 watching a champion of the game go through what he 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.480 went through as a young Indigenous man yourself. 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.920 Yeah, so I think I was maybe my third year 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:49.600 in so I was still trying to find my feed. 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.320 I wasn't playing regularly in the AFL team, you know, 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.240 I was still trying to find my way. I guess 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.559 in terms of like being a football player. You know, 0:10:57.600 --> 0:10:59.599 I grew up always knowing that I was Indigenous, and 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.240 I was like proud of being Indigenous, and you know, 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:04.040 like I said, racism back where I was from, it 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.040 sort of just brushed off you. So when I come 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.760 into the AFOL system, I didn't realize actually how serious 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.040 it was and how bad it actually was around the 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.600 whole nation when it all come out with Goodsy and 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.000 he was going through all that stuff, and I guess, 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:20.760 like you said, I was still a young bloke still 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.320 trying to find my way, So I didn't speak up 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.640 or anything, which I'm disappointed myself about. But I know 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:30.120 I was still young. But in these circumstances, doesn't matter 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.080 a young or how old you are, you always your 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.440 opinion matters on this, on this kind of stuff. So 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.679 when I think back on it and about it, and 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:39.439 I'm disappointed I didn't speak up, But at the same 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:41.079 time it was sort of all a big shock to 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.200 me as well. But if I had my time again, 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.280 I definitely if something like that happened again, then I'd 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:48.120 definitely be one of the first to speak up and 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:50.760 come forward and stick up from you know, my fellow 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:52.760 teammate or you know, if happened to one of the 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:54.600 boys and AFL, I will definitely be first first one 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:55.520 up to stand. 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.120 Up when he was treated the way that he was 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.080 and essentially booed out of the game. When you go 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.920 home at night and think about that at the time, 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:10.440 does it impact your self image? Does it? You know 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.200 what the country is telling you. 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.439 Yeah, it's just it's a bit of a hard one 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.880 because at the time I didn't really I was never 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:22.000 taking notice of the booze. I was taking. I was 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.360 actually taking notice of goods he playing because I knew 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:26.640 that he was back into his career. Growing up, he 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.200 was one of my idols in football, so I've always 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.120 just taking interest in watching him play football because I 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:36.040 love studying AFL, I love you know, I love studying 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.840 other players, and you know, I love watching goods he played. 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.000 So I didn't really take notice of the booze or 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.280 anything like that until I saw it on the news 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.319 or saw it in the documentary a few years later, 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.599 and just to see the way he was treated. He 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.080 will go down one of the greatest players of the game, like, 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:57.160 hands down, no matter what other players come in and 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.000 do from now on, he will go down as one 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.199 of the greatest players ever, Like he was an absolute gun. 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.400 And for him to get treated like that and not 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.720 even do the Grand Final drive around and be sent 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:09.760 off the way you deserve to be sent off, it's 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:14.559 just I think it's very sad for him and his 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:18.360 family obviously, but for someone like me, I'd look at 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.679 that and I get so upset that someone like I 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.400 know Goodsy fairly well from my time up in Sydney, 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:27.840 so to see him go through that, and it just 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.200 makes me feel sad as well. So I hope down 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:33.679 the track that the AFL do something for him, whether 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:36.600 it's they put up a statue for him, or get 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.000 him get him to a Grand Final to do a lap, 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:42.400 or do something for him because he deserves it, because 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.760 the way he was treated was just disgraceful. 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.760 To be honest, Am I right in saying that the 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:52.400 Indigenous boys all got together and had a conversation about 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.640 it a year or two later and what was how 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.000 it was handled and how you all felt about it? 0:13:58.280 --> 0:13:59.679 Yes, so I think it might have even been a 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:04.040 year after Goodsy retired that Yeah, you know, all the 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.520 older boys like shawny Berger and Abets, Michael Walter's, all 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.400 these boys stood up at the camp and said, you know, 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.040 it's not good enough from a player's point of view, 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.760 Indigenous players point of view, that we didn't stand up 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.839 and make our voice heard and didn't have his back enough. 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.560 Because I guess that was a perfect opportunity for Indigenous 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.120 players to all come together and make a statement, try 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:28.560 and stamp out racism and look after Goodsy. If we'd 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:30.320 done that, it might have turned out a lot differently 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:32.680 than what it could have than what it actually did. Sorry, 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.280 So yeah, there was a few conversations after it all happened. 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:37.880 But like I said, I was still a young young 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:38.880 fellow at the time, So. 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:40.720 What impact does that have on you as a young bloke? 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.480 Was that a pretty profound conversation to have witnessed. 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:46.960 It was a very confronting conversation, but it was also 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.040 at the same time it gave me the confidence to 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:53.800 be able to speak up and have my opinion on 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.760 these issues, because on these issues, my opinion is never 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:02.040 wrong because I know that my opinion is quite similar 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.120 to Eddie Betsa's opinion and all the indigenous players in 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.000 the competition, we all have the same opinions, so we 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.280 all speak up and which I think over the last 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.040 few years a lot of boys have is so powerful 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.160 when we all do that together. And it was a 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.520 perfect opportunity to do that with the whole Goodsy scenario 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.320 and what happened. But yeah, we just probably didn't do 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.239 quite enough, I don't think. 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.640 Because it's your lived experience. 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.720 Yeah exactly. Like I'm sure it's not only just I'm 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:31.520 sure a lot of the other boys probably feel the 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.160 same way as I do, that they're disappointing themselves that 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.200 they didn't stick up for a brother in the AFL 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:41.480 competition and in the nation. So because if we've done that, 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.280 I'm sure a lot of things would have been different. 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.520 What's the best thing about being an Indigenous man? 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:55.120 Best thing probably having skinny, quick legs. 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:59.520 To be honest, you were going to say family. 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:04.120 Well, obviously, but like everyone says family, and everyone knows that. 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.560 You know, you grew up over in Wa, so I'm 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.280 sure you know that all the Indigenous firms are quite close. 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:14.640 The communities are, whether they're related or not. The Indigenous 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.360 people always support each other no matter what in the 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:21.360 indigenous community. So whether you're family or you're an Indigenous 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:23.400 person and you know that Indigenous person over there, you 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.080 know that you're going to have their back no matter what. 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:28.520 And I think the Indigenous cultures, it's obviously built on 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.600 family and that that side of culture. 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:34.239 But those skinny legs. 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.040 Those skinny legs, And the thing is, I think probably 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.800 most Indigenous people have the quick skinny legs too, So 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:41.760 I'm pretty sure a lot of the other boys would 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.960 be happy with their legs. I reckon, I love it. 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.080 Have you embraced culture more as you've gotten older. 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.960 Yes, that's a That's one thing that I'm definitely trying 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:58.640 to work on at the moment and get more knowledge 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:05.200 about when I'm from my tribe, even other tribes. Like 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.880 I live with Bobby Hill for a year and even 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:10.720 asking him questions about where he's from. And you know, 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.840 he's very close with his family as well, so you know, 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:15.680 even when his mum would come over, I would ask 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.240 her questions about where they're from. And it's the working 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.280 progress because growing up, I never really I knew I 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.119 was indigenous, and I was proud of that. I'd tell 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.679 everyone I was Indigenous and I'm a black man and whatever. 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.280 But in terms of getting into the culture side of things, 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:34.640 I never really, I guess, got into that. Yeah, I'd 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:38.000 never quite embraced it. And now over the last couple 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:41.160 of years, now that I've matured and you know, I've 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:42.760 had some things going on in my life over the 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:44.560 past couple of years, I felt like I'd need a 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:49.240 bit of that spiritual cultural awareness, I guess to make 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.080 my life and my well being a lot better. And 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.760 I think it's important for everyone to go down that 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.199 path where they're indigenous and not indigenous multicultural to go 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.160 down that spiritual path and you know, you find out 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:02.600 about yourself a lot more. 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.880 What have you learned that you've you've embraced. 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:09.679 Just the history, you know, my I've caught up on 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.919 obviously last year in the COVID breakout, I'd caught up 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.159 on zoom calls with like two or three times as 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.199 my cousin, and just learned about past and you know, 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:24.080 the I guess, the tragedies that have happened around my community. 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:27.440 It's quite shocking, to be honest, like what I've learned 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.879 about my local community and the way Indigenous people were 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:34.120 treated like around my area back back in the day. 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.480 But you know that's not just my area. There's a 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.520 lot of other communities that have gone through all of 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.879 that as well, and probably it's probably it's definitely happening 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.879 to this day in local communities that Indigenous people are 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.840 getting treated unfairly. So yeah, just learning the history, I guess. 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.320 So when I when I can speak about this stuff, 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:55.639 I know what I'm talking about, and I talk with 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:57.199 a bit of passion when I talk about it too, 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.440 because I know the history. That's why I think it's 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.439 important for everyone to learn and educate themselves on the 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:07.000 history of Australia, because it's shocking, it's very bad. But 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:09.960 you learn about it, you move on, you have a discussions, 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:13.160 you talk about it, acknowledge it, acknowledge it, and then 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.720 everyone heals from there and everyone can get along from there. 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:21.199 But until people want to do that, then all we 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.439 can do is just learn about our history. 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:29.159 Tell me about your pop. He was alive around the 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:33.359 Stolen Generation each, how did that impact his life? 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.479 Yeah, well, look, I haven't talked too much about that 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.720 with him too much, but there's definitely something that I 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.320 want to and probably need to get in touch with 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.320 him about a lot more. But yeah, he was a 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:48.400 young feller and you know he used to run away 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:50.560 from the police or the people whoever it was that 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:52.960 used to come and collect the kids, and you know, 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.560 you'd have to run away and hide and then come 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:57.600 back home when he could when they'd leave. So if 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.040 you met him now, you wouldn't really you would and 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.120 tell that he's been through all that. Obviously he's an 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.800 old man now, he's just a fun, caring black man 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:09.880 and you actually wouldn't even think that he had been 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:11.560 through that, just with how happy he is with his 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.880 life and you know, loves coming over tom Mum's place 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.200 of just randomly showing up, not even telling us and 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:20.680 showing up, and yeah, to have someone that's been through 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:23.160 all that, it's probably something Percy I need to tap 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:25.879 into and learn about a lot more. Like I said, 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.040 if I'm more educated on this stuff, then I can 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.760 go to other people in the community and talk to 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.480 them about Oh this actually this is personal for me 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:36.040 because he's actually happened to my pop. 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.800 The level of fear that he and his parents must 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:39.720 have been living. 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:44.320 Yeah, yeah, well even the fear of these days of 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:48.040 being racially realified is it's scary. So I can't imagine 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:51.399 what they would have went through back then, going through 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.320 Is there people going to come to my house and 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:57.880 take me away from my family? Like, I can't imagine 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:02.200 that absolute fear that he would have through and other 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.359 families as well for that matter. Like there was a 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:08.639 lot of a lot of kids taken. And that's one 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:12.159 of the things in Australi's history that people they acknowledge it, 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.679 but they I feel like they don't know enough about it. 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:17.879 They haven't learned enough about it. Yep, they acknowledged it, 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:21.400 but you know the scars it's left for a lot 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:23.480 of people. It's still traumatizing. 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.760 You do a lot of work with Indigenous youth these days, 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:29.159 don't you tell me a little bit about that. 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:33.399 Yeah, Up in Sydney I used to do. Like Western 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:37.040 Sydney is quite a big population of multiculture and Indigenous people. 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.480 So down here in Melbourne, I haven't really got me 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:43.200 bearings yet. But once I get sorted and stuff like that, 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:47.360 I've want to start up a community sort of academy 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:51.239 back home, whether that's in ner Andro, Wagga Aubrey, just 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:54.080 to help kids. You know, firstly, I want to help 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:55.960 the Indigenous kids about the same time, whether it's kids 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:58.479 that are struggling regardless whether they can come in and 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:01.760 get some help and find their way as well. Because 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:03.800 there's not a lot of growing up. There's not a 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:06.720 lot of opportunity in country New South Wales, in these 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:10.840 towns unless you know, you have to move away to 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:13.159 get noticed. If you want to play sport or play football, 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:15.520 you have to go to a boarding school and come 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:17.119 down to Melbourne, or go to Sydney or go to 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.960 Canberra for these opportunities. But on a startup something where 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:24.560 if there's a gun football in football or in Riindra, 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:28.359 he doesn't have to be taken away from his family 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:30.760 or has to leave his family to go try and 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:33.159 make the AFL football. Like, I want there to be 0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:38.800 someone in Wogat for these kids and whether it's helping 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:41.320 him at school or helping him with sport or anything. 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:44.520 I want to start up a community academy or something 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:48.840 like that where just encourages kids to ask for helping 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:51.880 they know they got the help there to succeed in life. 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:54.840 Because I feel like the two things that are coming 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:57.919 across most strongly from you talking about it and you 0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:03.240 speak with such passion, which is amazing. One having people 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:08.400 like me acknowledge the pain and the history, but two 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:14.200 for having Indigenous people be proud Yeah yeah, of who 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:16.440 you are and what you stand for and where you 0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:19.040 come from. Is that a fair summary? 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:21.919 I guess yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of you know, 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:24.760 Indigenous people are shy people. You know you might not 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:28.040 see that you might see because you're watching football and 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:30.320 you see a lot of the Indigenous boys just absolutely 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:33.000 turn it on on TV and you think, oh wow. 0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:35.639 But then when the cameras are not on, there's a 0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:38.480 lot of shy boys that are afraid to speak up, 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:42.320 whether it's you know, they haven't really the same case 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:46.480 as me. Like growing up, I didn't know enough culturally 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:48.920 and the about the history, and so it's hard to 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:52.640 speak up when you don't really know these things. But yeah, 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:56.800 if you're proud and you want to learn your culture, 0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:59.399 then that's what I'm passionate about, Like just learning. If 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:01.600 you learn about these things, it's not harming anyone, Like 0:24:01.680 --> 0:24:05.480 you're you're doing better for yourself. And if you get 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:09.320 caught in the circumstance of whether there's racism or anything 0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:13.719 like that, you're strong enough and your willingness to be 0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:15.760 able to speak up on these things just goes to 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:19.040 a whole another level. And that's why one of my 0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:22.160 favorite people ever, and even if I didn't know him 0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:25.320 is Eddie Best, because he's so strong on this stuff 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:28.520 and he's been through so much, but he still keeps 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:31.600 speaking up about it because he knows that it's his 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:34.760 job to educate other people about this. And you know, 0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:37.439 he's even educated me. He wants me to speak up 0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:40.119 and talk about these things. So like, not even just 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:43.360 non indigenous people, it's everyone's got to acknowledge what's happened 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:46.879 and learn about it and then be strong enough to 0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:47.479 talk about it. 0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:49.879 Tell me the first time he came across Eddie Betts. 0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:54.200 I think it might have been my first ever Indigenous 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:58.920 camp in Alice Springs. I think I was eighteen or nineteen, 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:01.560 my first, first or second year, I can't really remember, 0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:04.720 but yeah, that was my first time meeting pretty much 0:25:05.160 --> 0:25:08.080 all of the boys that I looked up to watching footage. 0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:10.320 So I was you're the biggest smelling Yeah. 0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:13.000 Yeah, just because now that I never really thought like 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:15.199 I had to think about it too much, but you know, 0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:17.440 it was the first time I saw Buddy was there, 0:25:17.560 --> 0:25:21.919 Goods he was there, Lindsey Thomas was there, trav Varco 0:25:22.080 --> 0:25:24.080 was there, like it was just all these older boys 0:25:24.080 --> 0:25:26.880 I used to watch and they all played in Grand 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:28.840 finals at the time, like when I was growing up. 0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:32.240 So I was like, holy ship, Like I'm actually sharing. 0:25:33.720 --> 0:25:37.240 It's crazy. I know it's crazy because Travor I've roomed 0:25:37.240 --> 0:25:39.840 with Trevor Varco and I don't even know if he 0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:42.760 remembers this, but he I think he was coming off 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:45.439 a Grand Final with Geelong a few years prior, and 0:25:45.480 --> 0:25:48.560 I was just like like I'm brooming with Holy shit, 0:25:48.600 --> 0:25:51.280 I'm rooming with him right now. Like, but just to 0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:56.960 see these boys up. No, I wasn't like that. I 0:25:57.040 --> 0:26:01.400 was definitely not like that. I wasn't. Yeah, but Eddie 0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:03.560 obviously I would grow up going for Coulton, and that's 0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:07.159 when Eddie was kicking amazing goals and killing it for Coulton. 0:26:07.280 --> 0:26:11.680 So to see Eddie like it was once in a 0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:14.119 lifetime thing for me. I was just like shit like, 0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:15.439 because I didn't know I was going to end up 0:26:15.440 --> 0:26:18.040 a Culton. So when I was there, I was like, shit, like, 0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:20.040 I'll better take this in because I don't know what 0:26:20.119 --> 0:26:21.640 I'm going to see him again, you know what I mean. 0:26:22.280 --> 0:26:25.879 And then yeah, I was just having to finally be 0:26:26.040 --> 0:26:28.639 down here and play for Colon. Then he's bed teammates. 0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:31.439 It's crazy, it's so crazy, so crazy. 0:26:31.520 --> 0:26:33.720 It's fair to say he tried to recruit you last 0:26:33.800 --> 0:26:34.200 year too. 0:26:35.920 --> 0:26:39.080 Yeah. You know, during the game, like I was playing 0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:41.400 on Zach Fisher, I was playing half back at the time, 0:26:41.440 --> 0:26:44.040 and me and Zaki Fisher would be up and Eddie 0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:45.840 would be standing behind me and I'd just hear Eddie 0:26:45.880 --> 0:26:48.320 chirping and I'd be like what's he what's he saying? 0:26:48.760 --> 0:26:50.440 I'll turn around. He's like, yeah, I'm talking to you, 0:26:50.480 --> 0:26:53.240 like I better see you next year. I'm like, Eddie, 0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:55.920 I'm trying to focus on playing and beating you guys here. 0:26:55.960 --> 0:26:59.200 Don't talk to me like. But you know, it's all 0:26:59.200 --> 0:27:02.520 fun and games. And he's always he's I've never seen 0:27:02.600 --> 0:27:04.760 him not happy, Edie. He's always got a big smile 0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:07.560 on his face. And you know, I'm actually stoked on 0:27:07.680 --> 0:27:09.880 his teammate. And you know, I think it's pretty well 0:27:09.920 --> 0:27:12.679 documented from the cult media that I think they went 0:27:12.720 --> 0:27:16.520 to my school teacher when I was in high school 0:27:16.560 --> 0:27:18.680 or no, back in primary school maybe I can't remember. 0:27:18.920 --> 0:27:21.880 And I was kicking a football by myself or something, 0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:24.959 just waiting for class or something to start, and I 0:27:25.000 --> 0:27:26.920 was talking about Eddie Betts kicking me to the football 0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:28.840 and I'd get it and I would kick a goal 0:27:28.840 --> 0:27:30.960 and I'd be in a Grand Final. And you know, 0:27:31.119 --> 0:27:33.360 so hopefully that's all true. Hopefully I have the next 0:27:33.800 --> 0:27:35.240 well this year, I don't know how a lot much 0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:37.440 longer Edie will play, but you know, if we make 0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:39.919 it this year, Eddie, you better give me that handball, 0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:42.200 mate and kick a win and go in the Grand Final. 0:27:43.240 --> 0:27:46.360 But it's just it's so surreal meeting people like that, 0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:49.800 not only from the football people like you know, like 0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:52.359 I said before, the culture. So I think too, like 0:27:52.400 --> 0:27:54.280 he's someone him and goods of people that I look 0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:56.760 up to, and I want to be like when I'm 0:27:57.640 --> 0:27:58.840 at the end of my career, I want to look 0:27:58.840 --> 0:28:01.280 back in my career and be like, Yeah, I spoke up, 0:28:01.359 --> 0:28:04.640 I've done this. I've done that for my indigenous culture, 0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:06.720 and I helped a lot of kids out coming through 0:28:06.800 --> 0:28:09.719 and I helped a lot of other people speak up 0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:12.320 as well. So you know, if I can get to 0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:14.600 that stage of where they are, I'm going the right 0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:15.120 way in life. 0:28:15.160 --> 0:28:18.720 Really, you mentioned it before that Eddie's obviously copped a lot, 0:28:19.440 --> 0:28:22.639 particularly on social media over the years. Have you copped 0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:23.439 that sort of stuff? 0:28:24.560 --> 0:28:27.760 No, I haven't, But you know, when you know, Leem 0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:32.280 Ryan and Eddie Betts and all these guys are copying it, 0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:35.879 like it's it's not just those boys that suffer. It's 0:28:36.840 --> 0:28:39.760 like the other Indigenous players get furious about it, like 0:28:40.400 --> 0:28:44.160 other players get absolutely fired up about it, and it hurts. 0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:46.600 It hurts, But it's not only that, Like you feel 0:28:46.640 --> 0:28:51.200 for Eddie's family, Like Eddie's got five kids now and 0:28:52.160 --> 0:28:55.920 his family and Goodsy's family, like I can't imagine what 0:28:56.520 --> 0:28:58.160 you know, all of his kids are really young, so 0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:00.440 like Eddie's kids are young, so they probably know the 0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:03.000 extent of what's going on. But when they grow up 0:29:03.000 --> 0:29:05.520 and they look back on what their dad went through, 0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:09.040 like holy shit, Like it's you don't want your kids 0:29:09.080 --> 0:29:12.600 to know that your family went through that kind of stuff. 0:29:12.920 --> 0:29:15.560 As long as we and I know Eddie won't stop, 0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:18.920 I keep speaking up on these things and talking about 0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:21.920 these things and bringing it up and putting people that 0:29:21.960 --> 0:29:26.080 are being racist in the spotlight, then it's only going 0:29:26.160 --> 0:29:27.200 to be better in the long run. 0:29:27.280 --> 0:29:29.080 Are you in awe of him and the strength? 0:29:29.560 --> 0:29:33.200 Yeah? Like it was first it was always the footy 0:29:33.240 --> 0:29:36.080 side of things, but now it's now that I'm a 0:29:36.120 --> 0:29:39.120 lot mature, and you know, my sister's got three kids 0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:42.560 and with my niece gone through that kind of stuff 0:29:42.560 --> 0:29:46.160 at school, Like it's to look up to, Yeah, to 0:29:46.240 --> 0:29:48.200 look up to Eddie and the way he goes about 0:29:48.760 --> 0:29:52.400 being racially vialified. I do. He's He's one of my 0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:55.200 idols in outside of football, in this aspect as well. 0:29:57.560 --> 0:30:02.560 You're listening to ordinarily speaking with Zach Williams. I want 0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:06.320 to talk a little bit about your upbringing. Tell me 0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:08.200 about your dad. 0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:12.560 Yeah, so my dad passed away in two thousand and 0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:16.400 I was six. My sister was turning thirteen, just going 0:30:16.400 --> 0:30:18.760 into high school. You know, obviously my sister had a 0:30:18.760 --> 0:30:22.040 lot more memories than I do. I was still fairly young. 0:30:23.080 --> 0:30:25.080 But from what I can remember, you know, he was 0:30:25.080 --> 0:30:26.800 a rugby man. He was a rugby league man, so 0:30:27.160 --> 0:30:28.800 but from what I've heard, he was pretty good at 0:30:29.000 --> 0:30:30.880 It's pretty handy at AFL as well when he was 0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:35.760 playing in foods local like Nrandre Eagles, so he's quite handy. 0:30:35.800 --> 0:30:39.360 But for some unknown Shane reads and Mum always tells 0:30:39.400 --> 0:30:41.440 me that she tried to sign me up for rugby 0:30:41.600 --> 0:30:44.080 and he put me into I was kicked. So I 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:45.960 don't know if this was the plan the whole time 0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:47.880 to get me here to where I am today. But 0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:51.640 he knew something, that's what mum said. Mum said, he 0:30:51.680 --> 0:30:54.320 knew something. But you know I used to I still 0:30:54.360 --> 0:30:56.640 got memories of going to I was kick with him 0:30:56.680 --> 0:31:00.480 and all that kind of stuff. But now that I 0:31:00.560 --> 0:31:03.400 look back on it, I feel for I have a 0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:06.600 lot more feeling for my sister and my mother because 0:31:06.640 --> 0:31:09.560 you know, that was Mum's partner. My sister was going 0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:12.440 through a stage going into high school, you know, probably 0:31:12.480 --> 0:31:16.360 going through other issues becoming a woman and stuff like that, 0:31:16.400 --> 0:31:19.240 you know, and for her dad to be taken away 0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:21.800 as quick as he did, as quick as it happened, then, 0:31:22.520 --> 0:31:24.680 you know, I sort of sit back and think, you know, 0:31:24.800 --> 0:31:26.400 I sort of got sheltered from that because I was 0:31:26.400 --> 0:31:29.640 so young. I had these two women shelter me from 0:31:29.680 --> 0:31:34.400 all these So I sort of feel this is why 0:31:34.960 --> 0:31:36.720 I love my mom and my sister so much. And 0:31:36.760 --> 0:31:39.200 no matter what interview I do, and I matter what 0:31:39.320 --> 0:31:42.280 media stuff, I'd always mention those two, those two women 0:31:42.320 --> 0:31:45.480 in my life. And my mum and I mates now 0:31:45.520 --> 0:31:47.840 we're like, she's a lad, so we're like we're like 0:31:47.960 --> 0:31:52.040 best mates. And my sister's the mother figure. It's quite funny. 0:31:52.040 --> 0:31:53.440 Every time I go home and I have big with 0:31:53.480 --> 0:31:55.920 Ma Matt my sister's house, my sister, you know, wants 0:31:55.960 --> 0:31:58.080 to kick us out because we're carrying on my pool chops, 0:31:58.080 --> 0:32:00.480 you know, my mom and I. So this is the 0:32:00.520 --> 0:32:03.600 mother figure in the household now, which is so funny 0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:08.320 to me, but yeah, it was quite tough growing up 0:32:08.400 --> 0:32:12.080 without a dad, going through being a teenager and then 0:32:12.280 --> 0:32:14.360 doing all this stuff. He was a cult man as well. 0:32:14.440 --> 0:32:18.560 So in fact I'm here now and you know, and 0:32:18.680 --> 0:32:21.400 he's not here. It's sort of hits home pretty hard. 0:32:21.440 --> 0:32:25.440 But I got mum, got my sister, got my sister's kids, 0:32:25.480 --> 0:32:28.600 and got the people I need here. So it is tough, 0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:30.240 but we've got by. 0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:33.280 Is it true that you write Dad on your wrists 0:32:33.720 --> 0:32:34.120 every game? 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:37.520 Yeah, so I get emotionally, but I didn't know You're 0:32:37.520 --> 0:32:39.600 going to bring How do you know that? That's crazy, 0:32:39.840 --> 0:32:43.920 That's that's so crazy. But yeah, every I've done it, 0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:47.640 from my very first game against Gold Coast when I 0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:50.000 first come into the league till now. Yeah, I still 0:32:50.000 --> 0:32:52.920 do it. And his favorite number six, so I'm wearing 0:32:53.000 --> 0:32:58.560 number six. Thanks Kate Simpson for that, but but yeah, 0:32:58.560 --> 0:33:00.680 it's still his home. I put dad number six on 0:33:00.720 --> 0:33:03.680 my wrist. And you know, obviously football is not perfect 0:33:03.720 --> 0:33:06.360 when you're playing it, and you go through some hard 0:33:06.400 --> 0:33:08.200 times on the on the field in the game. But 0:33:08.280 --> 0:33:10.959 every time I'm struggling or I'm not playing the way 0:33:10.960 --> 0:33:12.320 I want to, part, just look at that and gets 0:33:12.320 --> 0:33:16.400 me gone again. How did you die from anemonia? Happened 0:33:16.440 --> 0:33:20.640 pretty quickly, Yeah, just I think he got misdiagnosed with asthma, 0:33:21.040 --> 0:33:24.560 and then yeah, just he had pneumonia. And then by 0:33:24.600 --> 0:33:27.440 the time they realized that it was pneumonia in his 0:33:27.560 --> 0:33:29.560 lungs and all that kind of stuff, it was, it 0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:32.360 was too late, and it just happened fairly quickly, to 0:33:32.440 --> 0:33:32.840 be honest. 0:33:33.320 --> 0:33:36.320 You have some memories of that time coming home from school. 0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:39.560 Yeah, it was quite quite scary, you know, coming home 0:33:39.640 --> 0:33:43.760 and the I think it was the asthma machine, like, 0:33:43.800 --> 0:33:46.000 it was quite loud, and I didn't know what was 0:33:46.000 --> 0:33:48.160 going on, so I thought, you know, I was just 0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:51.440 doing that to get better, and then never got better. 0:33:51.480 --> 0:33:56.040 And then I remember being at the hospital, remember walking 0:33:56.040 --> 0:33:58.640 into the room when he had this scary ass mask 0:33:58.680 --> 0:34:01.440 on his face, like you, I mean, like to try 0:34:01.480 --> 0:34:03.760 and help him breathe and all that because they thought 0:34:03.800 --> 0:34:05.840 it was something else when it was in fact ammonia. 0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:09.040 But quite traumatizing. 0:34:09.360 --> 0:34:12.359 How does it shape a young man when you lose 0:34:12.400 --> 0:34:14.440 your dad that early? What impact did it have on 0:34:14.480 --> 0:34:15.520 your life? Do you think. 0:34:17.239 --> 0:34:20.279 I think, you know, I wouldn't change anything because my 0:34:20.360 --> 0:34:22.640 Mum and my sister. They raised me the right way 0:34:22.840 --> 0:34:26.279 with I'm respectful to people, like treat people the way 0:34:26.320 --> 0:34:29.760 I want to be treated. But you know, there's always 0:34:29.880 --> 0:34:33.520 things growing up, like you know, my birthdays like eighteenth, 0:34:33.640 --> 0:34:36.719 twenty first, or whether I was hitting high school or 0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:41.759 making state teams or anything like that. You know, it 0:34:41.880 --> 0:34:44.440 is hard and I think back that, you know, Mum 0:34:44.560 --> 0:34:47.280 did struggle doing it by herself in terms of because 0:34:47.320 --> 0:34:50.640 I was quite a sporty kid, paying for basketball, paying 0:34:50.640 --> 0:34:53.759 for football, paying for soccer, playing for school staff. Like 0:34:54.280 --> 0:34:55.799 it just it got to the point where I was 0:34:55.840 --> 0:34:58.480 just doing too much. I had to choose one sport 0:34:58.480 --> 0:35:02.560 and I chose AFL. And you know, maybe if Dad 0:35:02.560 --> 0:35:04.040 was around, I could have been doing a lot more 0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:07.120 different sports or whatever. But like like anything, you want, 0:35:07.120 --> 0:35:09.160 you you want your parents and you want your family 0:35:09.560 --> 0:35:14.080 around to be at milestones in your life. And I've 0:35:14.080 --> 0:35:16.239 had a quite a fair few milestones in terms of 0:35:16.920 --> 0:35:20.800 making my first state team growing up, and then getting 0:35:21.120 --> 0:35:24.200 MVP for New South Wales under eighteens, and then being drafted, 0:35:24.320 --> 0:35:27.520 going to the Giants, moving to the Giants, and you know, 0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:31.080 for example, when I've done my Achilles, like not having 0:35:31.600 --> 0:35:34.160 like mum, Mum can't trade away. Mum was absolutely star 0:35:34.280 --> 0:35:37.439 during my Achilles red hat, but you know the fact 0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:39.120 that she had to do it all by herself, and 0:35:39.880 --> 0:35:43.359 if I just had another sort of shoulder to lene 0:35:43.440 --> 0:35:45.680 and you know, would have obviously would have been a 0:35:45.719 --> 0:35:48.640 lot better. But like I said, I wouldn't change anything. 0:35:48.640 --> 0:35:51.239 My mum's been and my sister has been absolute rock 0:35:51.239 --> 0:35:53.360 stars in the way they've gone about it and the 0:35:53.400 --> 0:35:56.120 way they've raised me and the way that my sister's 0:35:56.160 --> 0:36:01.080 raising her kids now, absolute superstars. So tough, but like 0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:02.360 I said, I wouldn't change anything. 0:36:02.920 --> 0:36:06.640 It must have been so tough for your mum grieving 0:36:06.680 --> 0:36:10.400 the sudden loss of your dad and raising two kids, 0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:13.560 and like you say, the financial stress as well, that 0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:15.440 it's so much for her. 0:36:16.600 --> 0:36:19.120 Yeah, it's I sort of took all of that for 0:36:19.200 --> 0:36:21.520 granted when I was at home, because I didn't realize 0:36:21.560 --> 0:36:24.880 the extent and how much pressure she was under and 0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:28.560 how much strainer would have taken for her to raise 0:36:28.560 --> 0:36:30.759 two kids and being able to pay for this and 0:36:30.800 --> 0:36:33.520 that and pay the bills and having to work long 0:36:33.640 --> 0:36:37.560 hours at a job and everything like that. But you know, 0:36:37.600 --> 0:36:41.160 when dad passed away, Mum went, you know, through some stuff. 0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:44.640 My sister at a young age had to step up 0:36:44.680 --> 0:36:47.440 and help out a lot in terms of raising me 0:36:47.600 --> 0:36:51.120 and getting me to ton from school and helping mom 0:36:51.160 --> 0:36:53.920 out with the groceries or you know, helping around the 0:36:53.920 --> 0:36:57.000 house or whatever. So you know, there was times where 0:36:57.480 --> 0:37:00.640 my sister had to look after me, if like mother figure. 0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:02.239 So I think that's why my sister and I are 0:37:02.280 --> 0:37:04.920 fairly close. To be honest, I don't I don't blame 0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:08.319 Mom for any of that because now when I look back, 0:37:08.360 --> 0:37:11.520 it's it's fucking hard. It would have been hard for 0:37:11.560 --> 0:37:15.360 her to lose her partner, and then she's got a 0:37:15.440 --> 0:37:18.960 six year old kid and a young woman that's going 0:37:18.960 --> 0:37:23.040 into high school. Like Jesus Christ, she would have been 0:37:23.560 --> 0:37:26.279 going through some stuff. So all the stuff that she 0:37:26.360 --> 0:37:28.839 had to dealt with mentally, I don't blame her one 0:37:28.880 --> 0:37:31.920 bit for it, because I would have would have been 0:37:32.000 --> 0:37:34.680 tough for anyone going through that circumstance and that situation. 0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:38.239 So yeah, two strong women in my life and love them, 0:37:38.320 --> 0:37:38.960 love them to death. 0:37:39.480 --> 0:37:40.600 Sound pretty proud of him? 0:37:40.719 --> 0:37:43.880 Yeah, Oh, I'll tell you what. Everything that I've accomplished 0:37:43.920 --> 0:37:47.080 in my life now, and I've always said if I 0:37:47.080 --> 0:37:49.719 could give my contract to those women, I would give 0:37:49.719 --> 0:37:51.520 it to them and I'll just play footy. I'll just 0:37:51.560 --> 0:37:54.520 give them all that I have and I'll just play footy. 0:37:54.560 --> 0:37:57.680 But obviously it doesn't work like that. So but now 0:37:57.719 --> 0:38:00.160 that I'm down Melbourne's a lot closer to them, and 0:38:00.480 --> 0:38:02.840 no doubt they'll probably be down here every bloody weekend. 0:38:02.960 --> 0:38:04.640 Won't be able to get rid of them. But yeah, 0:38:05.239 --> 0:38:07.600 everything to them really fair to. 0:38:07.560 --> 0:38:11.239 Say you were a bit of a rascal. What kind 0:38:11.280 --> 0:38:12.239 of words do you want to use? 0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:16.000 Yeah, I guess, you know, I did take advantage of 0:38:16.000 --> 0:38:18.360 the fact that, you know, my sister moved, you know, 0:38:18.480 --> 0:38:20.960 found her partner, and she moved out quite young and 0:38:21.000 --> 0:38:24.719 had her oldest quite young. So sort of took advantage 0:38:24.719 --> 0:38:27.520 of sneaking out when I was supposed to on school nights, 0:38:27.640 --> 0:38:30.719 or going to parties all weekend and not telling mom, 0:38:30.800 --> 0:38:35.799 and you know, just doing doing dumb shit really like 0:38:35.920 --> 0:38:38.480 drinking obviously going to parties. You know, there was a 0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:42.000 period of time there where I got sucked into smoking 0:38:42.040 --> 0:38:44.080 weed when I was like fifteen, and I was just 0:38:44.200 --> 0:38:46.440 doing dumb shit like that, And I guess I was 0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:50.239 taking advantage of the fact that Mum was a single mom, 0:38:50.280 --> 0:38:52.640 and I didn't realize how much stuff she was ying 0:38:52.719 --> 0:38:54.920 through because I was just oblivious, because I was just 0:38:55.520 --> 0:38:58.320 being a little shitted and I just wasn't worried about 0:38:58.320 --> 0:39:01.000 that having to put up with a sixteen year old 0:39:01.040 --> 0:39:04.360 boy in trying to get him to school high school. 0:39:04.680 --> 0:39:07.120 He's not listening to you. He's going out drinking every weekend, 0:39:07.440 --> 0:39:12.040 smoking like and not having a father to kick him 0:39:12.120 --> 0:39:14.840 up the backside, you know what I mean. Like, it's 0:39:15.280 --> 0:39:17.440 it's probably got to the extent where Mum would yell 0:39:17.480 --> 0:39:18.719 on screen, but I would just brush it off. It 0:39:18.719 --> 0:39:22.040 wouldn't even affect me. So it got to the point where, 0:39:23.000 --> 0:39:25.719 you know, my sister. I was shit scared of my 0:39:25.760 --> 0:39:33.279 sister because she's not afraid to throw a punch if 0:39:33.320 --> 0:39:36.280 I should say so. She threatened me a few times 0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:38.759 and like pull your head in and I'm gonna come 0:39:38.800 --> 0:39:41.319 over there and I'll give it to you, you know 0:39:41.360 --> 0:39:44.520 what I mean. So, so it was probably a good 0:39:44.560 --> 0:39:46.600 thing that I had someone like her and her partner 0:39:46.640 --> 0:39:50.400 that I was quite scared of in terms of like 0:39:50.400 --> 0:39:52.480 a bit of fear exactly. So it made me think 0:39:52.480 --> 0:39:54.640 twice of the some of the things I would do, 0:39:54.800 --> 0:39:58.520 but you know, it's I think every teenage boy goes through. 0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:01.360 That's that sort of segum stance. But I think I 0:40:01.400 --> 0:40:05.279 took a lot more advantage of it because I only 0:40:05.320 --> 0:40:07.600 had Mum at home and I knew you got to 0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:11.000 the point where she couldn't control me because I was 0:40:11.040 --> 0:40:13.520 becoming a young man. I just took advantage of it, 0:40:14.000 --> 0:40:15.320 to be honest. But now I look back at it, 0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:17.520 I'm just like, you fucking idiot, what are you doing? 0:40:18.040 --> 0:40:18.600 You know what I mean? 0:40:18.680 --> 0:40:21.799 So, is there is there any one moment that you 0:40:21.840 --> 0:40:24.680 look back and you're particularly ashamed. 0:40:24.280 --> 0:40:29.000 Or definitely it's definitely the smoking. I think, you know, 0:40:29.040 --> 0:40:31.000 I grew up around it, and there was a lot 0:40:31.000 --> 0:40:34.440 of people back in my community, like Feemily doing it, 0:40:34.520 --> 0:40:37.359 and you know, when Dad passed away, Mum started doing 0:40:37.360 --> 0:40:39.120 it as well. So I was around a lot of it. 0:40:39.200 --> 0:40:42.600 And Mum stopped doing it, like she obviously she went 0:40:42.640 --> 0:40:44.000 down a road that she didn't want to go to, 0:40:44.200 --> 0:40:46.880 so when she found a way back, she stopped smoking 0:40:46.880 --> 0:40:47.520 and everything like that. 0:40:47.560 --> 0:40:50.120 But as far as mental health goal. 0:40:49.880 --> 0:40:54.279 Yeah, so I knew I could see it firsthand that 0:40:54.400 --> 0:40:56.439 other people were doing it, and I didn't want to be. 0:40:56.680 --> 0:40:58.440 I would always say that I didn't want to be 0:40:59.440 --> 0:41:02.320 that kid, and I just got sucked into it. And yeah, 0:41:02.400 --> 0:41:07.719 there's that. And obviously I always regret taking advantage of Mum, 0:41:07.760 --> 0:41:11.760 so which is which is hard thing to say because 0:41:12.480 --> 0:41:15.759 you know now now who I am today. I love 0:41:15.840 --> 0:41:18.160 Mom to death. Like like I said, we're like best 0:41:18.160 --> 0:41:19.840 mates now, you know what I mean. So when I 0:41:19.880 --> 0:41:21.960 look back, I'm just like, you an idiot? What were 0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:24.000 you doing? Like why would you treat your mother like that? 0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:26.920 You know what I mean? Like when she's yelling and screaming, 0:41:26.960 --> 0:41:29.200 I should have pulled my head inline got back into gear, 0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:33.000 gonna rocked up the school on time or whatever. Like 0:41:33.160 --> 0:41:34.600 they got to the point where Mum would just wake 0:41:34.640 --> 0:41:36.879 up for work, wake me up, and then she'd because 0:41:36.920 --> 0:41:39.040 she worked at the high school, she'd drive to work 0:41:39.080 --> 0:41:41.480 early just because she's a teacher there and had to 0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:44.279 look after other kids. I'll go back to bed and 0:41:44.440 --> 0:41:46.919 go to sleep, you know what I mean. Just little 0:41:46.960 --> 0:41:47.640 things like that, like. 0:41:47.600 --> 0:41:50.040 And your poor mums at the school at school show you. 0:41:50.040 --> 0:41:51.840 Know what I mean. Like, and she had a like 0:41:51.880 --> 0:41:55.520 obviously had a good reputation, and I was letting her 0:41:55.600 --> 0:41:59.000 down as her son and just like sort of like 0:41:59.080 --> 0:42:01.719 she couldn't get her backyard clean, then how could she 0:42:01.800 --> 0:42:03.359 go to school and tell other kids what to do. 0:42:03.520 --> 0:42:08.759 So little things like that that I regret, but we 0:42:08.800 --> 0:42:10.040 all live and learn. I guess. 0:42:10.400 --> 0:42:13.200 Is it fair to say that because you didn't get 0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:16.760 picked up in the national draft you were rookie, rookie 0:42:16.840 --> 0:42:20.759 listed and late in the rookie draft. Is it fair 0:42:20.800 --> 0:42:22.600 to say that you think some of your off field 0:42:22.640 --> 0:42:26.840 stuff maybe impacted your AFL career in that sense. 0:42:28.000 --> 0:42:31.080 I think the main thing that impacted me was I 0:42:31.160 --> 0:42:34.400 went to boarding school in Aubrey and I only lasted 0:42:35.160 --> 0:42:37.799 twelve months and I went back home to finish school. 0:42:38.000 --> 0:42:40.080 So I knew if I stayed in Aubrey, I knew 0:42:40.120 --> 0:42:43.319 I wasn't going to finish school. So what was that? 0:42:44.360 --> 0:42:46.919 I just I didn't like it. Yeah, just I don't 0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:48.840 know if it was home sick. I think it was homesick. 0:42:48.960 --> 0:42:51.000 But it was the first time I moved away from 0:42:51.040 --> 0:42:53.040 marm and moved away from home, so it was quite tough. 0:42:53.280 --> 0:42:57.120 And I just couldn't get into the groove of being 0:42:57.160 --> 0:43:00.680 at boarding school and doing the studying and putting time 0:43:00.680 --> 0:43:03.200 into study, and on top of that I was driving 0:43:03.239 --> 0:43:05.759 down to when you're at it for Murray Bush Range 0:43:05.880 --> 0:43:09.640 training every week. So it was quite it's quite daunting 0:43:09.680 --> 0:43:12.399 for me to one move away from home, but then 0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:14.120 to have all this stuff on my plate at the 0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:17.160 one time I wasn't used to. So I went back home, 0:43:17.239 --> 0:43:20.480 finished year twelve, and then the draft come around. And 0:43:20.880 --> 0:43:23.040 you know, during my year twelve year, I just should 0:43:23.040 --> 0:43:24.920 have listened more in school in my year twelve year, 0:43:24.920 --> 0:43:28.520 done better at school. But in school, yeah, exactly, do 0:43:29.000 --> 0:43:32.440 better in school in year twelve, but done the eighteens 0:43:32.480 --> 0:43:35.719 camp with the REMS. I was the MVP. I got 0:43:35.719 --> 0:43:38.759 invited to the national combine. I was the only one 0:43:38.760 --> 0:43:41.080 from New South where I was invited. You know, tested, 0:43:41.200 --> 0:43:43.319 met with met with like eight teams, so I think 0:43:43.320 --> 0:43:46.399 it was and done the interviews, which is scary as hell. 0:43:47.719 --> 0:43:49.520 I'd love to do them interviews now. I think I'd 0:43:49.520 --> 0:43:52.759 do a lot better. But yeah, you know, I thought 0:43:52.800 --> 0:43:54.920 I was actually quite a good chance. And you know, 0:43:55.000 --> 0:43:58.160 all these teams were gave me some pretty good signs, 0:43:58.200 --> 0:44:00.799 but I was probably just oblivious as a seventeen eighteen 0:44:00.840 --> 0:44:02.960 year old kid, and then I thought I was a 0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:05.680 good chance. He get drafted, didn't. I didn't get drafted 0:44:06.320 --> 0:44:09.760 in national Draft, and I think that's because teams saw 0:44:10.120 --> 0:44:13.319 that I got homesick and they probably got worried that 0:44:13.360 --> 0:44:15.120 I was gonna only last few years and then go 0:44:15.160 --> 0:44:18.400 back home, which fucking infuriates me. It makes me so 0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:22.239 angry because a lot of boys that you know, come 0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:26.040 through the draft where they're from Wa South Australia, no 0:44:26.040 --> 0:44:28.359 matter where they're from, if they get drafted a team. 0:44:28.520 --> 0:44:31.440 There's been so many cases where even at the Giants, 0:44:31.440 --> 0:44:33.600 I know a lot of boys that got homesick and 0:44:33.640 --> 0:44:35.439 come home. So they left the Giants and come home 0:44:36.160 --> 0:44:39.440 and they still went and top pixel, you know what 0:44:39.520 --> 0:44:41.600 I mean. So I still keep a little chip on 0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:44.400 my shoulder, like on my shoulder with that kind of stuff. 0:44:44.440 --> 0:44:49.399 But I think that affected my getting draft as well, 0:44:49.400 --> 0:44:52.600 the homesickness, and I was devastated. I was absolutely shattered. 0:44:52.719 --> 0:44:55.920 And then the next day after the draft, Lucky Buzzard, 0:44:56.480 --> 0:45:00.040 the academy recruit at the time, he run all the 0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:04.640 the Giants academies around the regional areas and bring me up, 0:45:04.719 --> 0:45:06.800 said if you want to get on a list, we 0:45:07.520 --> 0:45:09.919 come train with us for I think it was four 0:45:09.920 --> 0:45:12.080 weeks or something like that and try and get you 0:45:12.120 --> 0:45:15.359 on aie rookie spot list. And I was training. I 0:45:15.400 --> 0:45:17.319 was training fairly hard. I think when I first got 0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:18.520 up there, I was living at the top of a 0:45:18.560 --> 0:45:22.440 pub in a room until I could get into living 0:45:22.440 --> 0:45:25.719 with the welfare Craig Lambert and the Lamberts at the time, 0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:29.800 so I went from the pub into their oldest daughter, Briley. 0:45:29.800 --> 0:45:32.359 She's my age, so she was away at the time, 0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:35.400 so I moved into her room to the welfare people's 0:45:35.400 --> 0:45:37.799 house for like a month and a half. So I 0:45:38.360 --> 0:45:42.080 was literally living out of a backpack pretty much for 0:45:43.160 --> 0:45:46.279 two months until the draft came. And then you know, 0:45:46.480 --> 0:45:49.440 Sheeds and I think there was a few people at 0:45:49.440 --> 0:45:51.120 the club at the time that didn't want to put 0:45:51.160 --> 0:45:55.920 me on the rookie list. But fortunately I was training 0:45:56.000 --> 0:45:58.640 fairly hard, and I think Sheeds and a few others, 0:45:58.760 --> 0:46:01.719 Gabby Allen and craiglar but it saw the potential that 0:46:01.800 --> 0:46:04.320 I had and they just end up checking on the 0:46:04.400 --> 0:46:06.720 rookie rookie list. And I think I went the last 0:46:06.760 --> 0:46:10.400 pick in the rookie here draft, I think. So, you know, 0:46:10.480 --> 0:46:12.960 it's little little things like that I keep in the 0:46:12.960 --> 0:46:15.239 back of my mind. And you know I always have 0:46:15.360 --> 0:46:19.040 this I'm going to prove you wrong mentality, and which 0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:22.600 is you know, coming down here, there's to Melbourne. There's 0:46:22.640 --> 0:46:25.440 obviously the media down here is a lot bigger and 0:46:25.480 --> 0:46:27.520 a lot more upfront than it is in Sydney. So 0:46:28.160 --> 0:46:30.560 you know, I'm in the spotlight now and they love 0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:33.520 it because if you got something to say about me, 0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:35.920 I hope you got the same energy when I come 0:46:35.960 --> 0:46:39.040 out and prove to you what I'm about, so you 0:46:39.080 --> 0:46:43.799 get physically I'm getting bit sweaty talking about this, but 0:46:44.200 --> 0:46:48.719 like I said, like that's what drives me, Like I 0:46:48.760 --> 0:46:52.520 love I love thinking back in those moments and just 0:46:52.920 --> 0:46:55.480 proving to people like you should have picked me up, 0:46:55.600 --> 0:46:58.160 you should have done this, Like I know my worthy. 0:46:58.280 --> 0:47:01.520 Why couldn't you see it? But at the end of 0:47:01.560 --> 0:47:03.560 the day, like I said, like by the time my 0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:05.680 career is over and done with, I'll be happy with 0:47:06.040 --> 0:47:08.319 the footy side of things. I have no doubt. I'm 0:47:08.400 --> 0:47:11.560 quite confident in what I can do and my ability 0:47:11.600 --> 0:47:14.120 and what I can do to help my teammates to 0:47:14.160 --> 0:47:16.000 get to where we need to be. So yeah, it 0:47:16.000 --> 0:47:17.640 gets me fired up a little bit when I talk 0:47:17.680 --> 0:47:20.600 about it. But it's all part of it, really, it's 0:47:20.640 --> 0:47:21.239 all part of it. 0:47:22.000 --> 0:47:24.840 Last year, tell me about the phone call when you 0:47:24.960 --> 0:47:26.560 found out about your sister. 0:47:28.280 --> 0:47:34.919 Yeah, so my sister had got diagnosed with cancer and 0:47:35.000 --> 0:47:36.840 I'm quite furious with her because she didn't tell me 0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:40.320 straight away. So if you listen to this, Smith, I'm 0:47:40.320 --> 0:47:41.279 not happy about that. 0:47:41.960 --> 0:47:43.600 But is she trying to protect you? 0:47:43.840 --> 0:47:45.799 Yeah? I think, like I said, she's like a mother 0:47:45.840 --> 0:47:47.840 figure as well. So I've really I've got two mums 0:47:47.840 --> 0:47:50.839 in my life. So it was quite quite hard to 0:47:51.320 --> 0:47:54.799 get that phone call because you know, I knew that 0:47:54.880 --> 0:47:58.640 this was a contract year. I knew footy. I needed 0:47:58.680 --> 0:48:00.920 to play well in footy. I needed to do what 0:48:00.960 --> 0:48:02.920 I need to do to set myself up, and then 0:48:03.040 --> 0:48:05.880 for this to happen just sort of almost a spender 0:48:05.920 --> 0:48:08.759 in the works early days and then that might hamstring 0:48:08.800 --> 0:48:12.640 as well. Like a week after I found out, so 0:48:12.680 --> 0:48:14.640 I knew I was missing the first couple of rounds 0:48:14.680 --> 0:48:17.160 of the year, and I was like, fuck sake, like 0:48:17.840 --> 0:48:19.960 Smith has gone through this. I can't go see her 0:48:20.000 --> 0:48:23.000 because like obviously COVID reasons, and you know, I need 0:48:23.080 --> 0:48:24.880 to be playing footy. I need to be at the 0:48:24.880 --> 0:48:28.000 club to get my contract year. It's a big year. 0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:30.239 I need to make sure I'm doing everything I can 0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:32.080 to set myself up so I know that I can 0:48:32.320 --> 0:48:35.319 help them out in the future. But at the time, 0:48:35.360 --> 0:48:37.200 all I want to do was just go home because 0:48:37.200 --> 0:48:39.160 I was injured. I got the phone call from her, 0:48:39.200 --> 0:48:40.480 and all I want to do was just go down 0:48:40.520 --> 0:48:44.120 and support her and be around her. But at the 0:48:44.120 --> 0:48:45.640 same time, I knew there was a risk with me 0:48:45.760 --> 0:48:48.719 going home, like she was getting chemo and doing all 0:48:48.800 --> 0:48:52.480 the treatment stuff. So I happened to have COVID and 0:48:52.560 --> 0:48:54.680 I went back and she got it. It probably would 0:48:54.719 --> 0:48:57.960 have affected her a lot more in a way than 0:48:58.600 --> 0:49:01.359 what it does other people get people that have gone 0:49:01.360 --> 0:49:04.560 through COVID. Yeah, it was tough. It was fucking tough 0:49:04.800 --> 0:49:06.920 going through that, but it was just and it was 0:49:06.920 --> 0:49:09.160 hard because we went into the I think we were 0:49:09.200 --> 0:49:12.160 into lockdown, like away, like into the hub. Sorry, it 0:49:12.239 --> 0:49:16.239 was a very stressful time. But yeah, she's all healthy now, 0:49:16.280 --> 0:49:18.680 she's getting back on track, and yeah she's she's in 0:49:18.719 --> 0:49:20.120 a happy spot at the moment, which is good. 0:49:20.280 --> 0:49:22.960 How'd you feel when you hear that news for her? 0:49:23.880 --> 0:49:27.120 I imagine it goes from you know, feeling like she's 0:49:27.280 --> 0:49:29.800 the mother figure, as you describe it to all of 0:49:29.840 --> 0:49:31.120 a sudden wanting to protect her. 0:49:31.160 --> 0:49:34.520 I guess, yeah, it was. It was tough because our 0:49:34.600 --> 0:49:36.880 dad passed away when he was fairly young. Well I 0:49:36.920 --> 0:49:39.040 think he was twenty eight, twenty nine, so I think 0:49:39.080 --> 0:49:42.080 she was thirty one thirty thirty one last year, so 0:49:43.040 --> 0:49:46.360 she's still very young. And she's got three beautiful kids. 0:49:46.760 --> 0:49:50.120 She had a husband. One. Mine went to shit, I'm 0:49:50.120 --> 0:49:54.080 gonna lose someone at a young age again, and these 0:49:54.400 --> 0:49:56.920 like my sister's kids are going to lose one of 0:49:56.960 --> 0:49:58.960 their parents at a young age like I did. I 0:49:59.000 --> 0:50:02.680 was like, shit, like this is just just it was scary. 0:50:02.880 --> 0:50:06.160 It was very scary. But you know, there was a 0:50:06.160 --> 0:50:07.520 couple of weeks there when I was down in the 0:50:07.600 --> 0:50:11.799 dance and I was I think she what she needed 0:50:11.800 --> 0:50:14.080 for me was just to be positive and be strong. 0:50:14.600 --> 0:50:18.160 So my whole attitude just changed, and I told her, like, 0:50:18.840 --> 0:50:21.000 we'll get through this, Like she's a very strong woman, 0:50:21.560 --> 0:50:25.879 she'll be fine, she'll get through it. Just make sure 0:50:25.960 --> 0:50:28.040 she's doing all the right things at home and getting 0:50:28.040 --> 0:50:30.640 the treatments that she needs to get. And if she's 0:50:30.680 --> 0:50:33.719 doing that, then you know, we got some looking up 0:50:33.840 --> 0:50:36.080 over us. So you'll be fine. I said, you'll get 0:50:36.080 --> 0:50:38.719 through it, and she did, and she's all healthy and 0:50:38.800 --> 0:50:41.880 all the kids are healthy, and yeah, so we're in 0:50:41.920 --> 0:50:42.959 a really good spot at the moment. 0:50:43.040 --> 0:50:44.200 What kind of cancer was that? 0:50:44.719 --> 0:50:50.000 Ovarian cancer? The doctor said, you got something on your 0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:53.680 over it. You got a lump or cancer there, and 0:50:53.719 --> 0:50:56.120 he goes, you need to within the next twenty four 0:50:56.160 --> 0:50:57.800 to forty eight hours, you need to go get it checked. 0:50:57.880 --> 0:50:59.359 You need to go get a blood test. You need 0:50:59.400 --> 0:51:02.279 to get it checked because if you don't, it could 0:51:02.360 --> 0:51:05.840 be fatal. And you know, she it's quite a scary 0:51:05.880 --> 0:51:09.920 time when people in your family go through stuff like that. 0:51:09.960 --> 0:51:12.799 Like everyone's got stories like that and their families and hardships, 0:51:12.800 --> 0:51:16.360 but you don't really you know, you hear about people 0:51:16.360 --> 0:51:19.840 and you're like, oh shit, that's that sucks, but until 0:51:19.840 --> 0:51:22.600 you actually go through it, you don't realize actually how 0:51:22.640 --> 0:51:24.839 tough it is for people to go through stuff like that. 0:51:24.920 --> 0:51:27.960 So it was a very daunting time. But like I said, 0:51:28.120 --> 0:51:29.320 I knew that she was going to get through it. 0:51:29.360 --> 0:51:31.440 She was a strong she's a strong young black woman. 0:51:31.560 --> 0:51:35.439 So and yeah, she's all healthy now, which is good. 0:51:35.560 --> 0:51:37.759 The word cancer hits you, doesn't it when you hear it. 0:51:37.960 --> 0:51:41.120 Yeah, it scares of shit out of you because it's 0:51:41.239 --> 0:51:45.920 obviously very well known cancer around the world. So you know, 0:51:46.239 --> 0:51:49.080 as soon as you hear that in any form of discussion, 0:51:49.840 --> 0:51:51.400 it's quite scary. 0:51:51.640 --> 0:51:56.040 Knocks the window. Ay, Yeah, so she was getting she 0:51:56.160 --> 0:51:58.960 lives in Aubrey, but she was getting treatment in Melbourne. 0:51:59.120 --> 0:52:02.440 Was that part of the reason why you wanted to 0:52:02.960 --> 0:52:03.920 head back to Melbourne? 0:52:04.640 --> 0:52:08.120 Yeah? You know I was in the Hub and you 0:52:08.160 --> 0:52:10.480 know she was going back and forth to Melbourne a 0:52:10.520 --> 0:52:14.919 few times. You know. For me, I was thinking, shit, 0:52:15.440 --> 0:52:17.880 I should be there. If I was in Melbourne, she 0:52:18.400 --> 0:52:20.239 could just live. She could be living at my house 0:52:20.360 --> 0:52:23.279 now and not having to drive back and forth. Like 0:52:23.440 --> 0:52:25.200 I can't imagine what it was like to go get 0:52:25.239 --> 0:52:27.719 the treatment and then having to drive home or having 0:52:27.760 --> 0:52:29.320 to stay the night in the hotel, you know what 0:52:29.360 --> 0:52:33.120 I mean. So, and the kids were going through school, 0:52:33.400 --> 0:52:36.839 you know, like, so her husband couldn't really come with her, 0:52:37.000 --> 0:52:38.719 so it was quite it would have been a tough 0:52:38.760 --> 0:52:41.640 time for her and for me it was just if 0:52:41.719 --> 0:52:44.480 she had somewhere to stay, it would have been so 0:52:44.680 --> 0:52:48.200 much more convenient for everyone and the whole family. So 0:52:48.520 --> 0:52:51.200 that was the main reason for me to move away 0:52:51.200 --> 0:52:53.040 from the Giants. It was a hard decision because I've 0:52:53.800 --> 0:52:56.000 they gave him an opportunity. I grew up, I've become 0:52:56.040 --> 0:52:58.279 a man there, grew up with a lot of the 0:52:58.320 --> 0:52:59.960 boys there, become men with a lot of boys there. 0:53:00.480 --> 0:53:02.279 I was close to a lot of the staff there, 0:53:02.600 --> 0:53:06.840 the coaches, leon, you know, I was close with everyone involved. 0:53:06.920 --> 0:53:09.600 So it was a tough decision. But you know, people 0:53:09.640 --> 0:53:12.719 always speculate, you know, the contract side of things and 0:53:12.880 --> 0:53:14.480 all that kind of Oh that's why he left, and 0:53:14.840 --> 0:53:16.319 I was whether I was going to get a bag 0:53:16.400 --> 0:53:20.240 of chips in my contract. I was coming downy anyways, 0:53:20.280 --> 0:53:24.320 because for me, I've been away from my family for 0:53:24.400 --> 0:53:26.759 too long and for that to happen too, my sister 0:53:26.840 --> 0:53:29.080 and may not be here. That was the deciding factor 0:53:29.120 --> 0:53:30.160 for me to come down here. 0:53:30.880 --> 0:53:34.359 When people it's fascinating to me though, the financial thing, 0:53:34.440 --> 0:53:37.920 and you obviously get quite upset about people saying it 0:53:38.000 --> 0:53:39.920 was a financial decision. But the way that I see 0:53:39.960 --> 0:53:43.000 it from the outside is that a financial decision for 0:53:43.160 --> 0:53:46.400 you is also about looking after your family. Because if 0:53:46.400 --> 0:53:48.360 you've grown up in a situation where you didn't have 0:53:48.520 --> 0:53:51.560 a heap. I'd imagine that part of the motivation for 0:53:51.680 --> 0:53:54.000 you is looking after your mum and your sister and 0:53:54.080 --> 0:53:56.279 your family in the long run. Is that fair? 0:53:56.680 --> 0:54:00.319 Yeah? Even when I got my first bloody page as 0:54:00.320 --> 0:54:02.520 an eighteen year old and I was playing for the Giants, 0:54:02.680 --> 0:54:04.719 I gave half of it to month for me to 0:54:05.120 --> 0:54:08.560 get my contract in be sorted. I've not only set 0:54:08.719 --> 0:54:11.520 myself up for life half a footy, but I'm setting 0:54:11.680 --> 0:54:15.759 my family up as well. So like you said, you know, 0:54:16.040 --> 0:54:18.960 growing up with not much is a driving factor for 0:54:19.080 --> 0:54:21.920 me because it means I can support my family as well. 0:54:22.160 --> 0:54:24.320 Like the money, Like my contract's not just for me. 0:54:24.760 --> 0:54:26.839 Like if I could put my mum and sis's name 0:54:26.880 --> 0:54:29.000 on the contract, I would, you know what I mean, 0:54:29.000 --> 0:54:30.279 I'd get them to sign it as well. 0:54:30.400 --> 0:54:33.279 But you've bought your sister a house, is that right? 0:54:33.600 --> 0:54:35.360 Yeah? So I bought my sister a house in Aubury. 0:54:35.440 --> 0:54:42.000 Yeah so in Thiguna. Well it was actually quite crazy 0:54:42.040 --> 0:54:44.279 because I've bought the house, but I never saw the 0:54:44.320 --> 0:54:46.520 house and my sister I said, go find a house 0:54:46.880 --> 0:54:49.040 that you want. You know, I've saved up me money. 0:54:49.160 --> 0:54:51.879 I'm ready to buy a family house now for you guys, 0:54:52.480 --> 0:54:54.560 And she went and found one and then went through 0:54:54.680 --> 0:54:57.080 bought it and everything. They moved in, and it would 0:54:57.120 --> 0:55:00.960 have been maybe six months to a year twelve that 0:55:01.200 --> 0:55:03.720 I actually finally saw it. I saw it through FaceTime 0:55:03.760 --> 0:55:06.040 with the kids and everything like that, but once I 0:55:06.440 --> 0:55:08.560 showed up to the house, it was more surreal that, 0:55:09.160 --> 0:55:11.840 holy shit, this is out, like we finally we finally 0:55:11.960 --> 0:55:15.120 own a house, like our family finally owned something that's ours. 0:55:15.400 --> 0:55:18.320 And it was one of the best feelings. And you know, 0:55:18.480 --> 0:55:22.440 my sister will always every time home, she will thank 0:55:22.520 --> 0:55:24.280 me for the house and all that kind of stuff, 0:55:24.320 --> 0:55:27.200 but I tell her that she doesn't need to thank me, 0:55:27.400 --> 0:55:30.319 like always say thank you to her for the way 0:55:30.440 --> 0:55:33.120 she's brought me up and been on my mass when 0:55:33.160 --> 0:55:36.359 I'm playing up and I'm actually still scared of her 0:55:36.480 --> 0:55:39.480 to this day, to be honest. So it was quite 0:55:39.480 --> 0:55:43.000 a fulfilling thing. But you know, I want to get 0:55:43.040 --> 0:55:45.360 to the stage where I got my sister a house. 0:55:45.680 --> 0:55:47.640 I got my house, and I got Mum's house. So 0:55:49.200 --> 0:55:51.640 once that, my job's not done yet in terms of 0:55:51.719 --> 0:55:54.040 the family side of things and getting Mum and my 0:55:54.160 --> 0:55:55.840 sisters sordered. So I still got a bit to do. 0:55:56.200 --> 0:56:00.919 You've made me to her up with us. It's my bad, 0:56:01.360 --> 0:56:05.520 but that's just the picture that you paint of walking 0:56:05.600 --> 0:56:08.440 into that house, and they're just the overwhelming sense of 0:56:08.960 --> 0:56:10.120 pride of I did this. 0:56:10.600 --> 0:56:15.000 That's probably my biggest thing, perhaps moment in my life, 0:56:15.080 --> 0:56:17.279 is when I could buy a house for them. Like 0:56:17.480 --> 0:56:19.680 always sit down with Psmith and say, this is what 0:56:20.320 --> 0:56:22.960 I want your kids and my kids one day to 0:56:23.120 --> 0:56:25.720 grow up and know that they can own a house, 0:56:25.760 --> 0:56:28.399 they can own a car, they can do these things. 0:56:28.840 --> 0:56:33.719 And because growing up I never thought about own my 0:56:33.840 --> 0:56:36.719 own house or owning anything, to be honest, always just 0:56:36.800 --> 0:56:39.880 thought money. Oh yep, money I got in my pocket. 0:56:40.000 --> 0:56:42.560 That's fine, that's all I need. But now that I've 0:56:42.960 --> 0:56:47.120 grown up like owning that it's mine. It changes your 0:56:47.120 --> 0:56:48.359 whole aspect of life. Really. 0:56:48.760 --> 0:56:51.839 So my final question is you're still only twenty six, 0:56:51.920 --> 0:56:55.560 You're still young. If you heard your mum and sister 0:56:55.680 --> 0:56:59.359 talk about you, what would you want them to say? 0:56:59.480 --> 0:57:02.080 What would you, jeeves I want them to say about 0:57:02.160 --> 0:57:04.600 you and the boy they raise God? 0:57:04.719 --> 0:57:06.920 Well, I know for a fact that they would start 0:57:06.960 --> 0:57:09.880 off with saying on a pain in the heart. They 0:57:09.920 --> 0:57:12.759 would absolutely one hundred percent start with that probably I 0:57:12.840 --> 0:57:14.719 don't listen to what I'm told from them. Then that 0:57:14.800 --> 0:57:17.480 they're always right. That's that's what you'll start. That's what 0:57:17.520 --> 0:57:20.520 they're exactly I'll say first, But I think the way 0:57:20.680 --> 0:57:24.120 Mum raised my sister and I, I think my mum 0:57:24.160 --> 0:57:26.280 would say the same thing about my sister and I, 0:57:26.320 --> 0:57:29.680 cause i'd say about my sister that she's very respectful person, 0:57:30.400 --> 0:57:32.760 treats people the way she wants to be treated. She's 0:57:33.280 --> 0:57:35.760 the person that everyone wants to be around, and she's 0:57:35.800 --> 0:57:38.480 a very giving and caring person. And at the end 0:57:38.480 --> 0:57:40.600 of the day, you know, no matter what, whether we 0:57:40.720 --> 0:57:43.920 own our own house or we're living out of the 0:57:43.960 --> 0:57:46.600 back of the car or whatever, I think we will 0:57:46.720 --> 0:57:51.640 never change as people. And I've tried to keep myself 0:57:51.680 --> 0:57:53.960 grounded and tried to be the same person from when 0:57:53.960 --> 0:57:55.320 I was growing up. You know, I went through a 0:57:55.320 --> 0:57:57.160 stage of being a little shit ed back home, but 0:57:57.280 --> 0:57:59.840 then you know, i'd come back to being humble and 0:58:00.080 --> 0:58:02.640 trying to be a person that everyone can get along 0:58:02.720 --> 0:58:06.880 with and being respectful. So hopefully they'd say all that, 0:58:07.080 --> 0:58:09.320 but they'd definitely let you know that I don't listen 0:58:09.360 --> 0:58:13.040 to them very very often, and that that my mum 0:58:13.080 --> 0:58:15.040 always says, all right, go do what you do. But 0:58:15.200 --> 0:58:16.800 when you come back crying and saying that I'm right, 0:58:17.040 --> 0:58:19.080 I'm gonna it's gonna be satisfying, you know. 0:58:19.400 --> 0:58:22.640 So, So for mum listening right now, is she right? 0:58:24.520 --> 0:58:27.160 I don't know if I but she's most of the time, 0:58:27.280 --> 0:58:29.560 she's always right. I'll give her that. I'll say most 0:58:29.600 --> 0:58:31.200 of the time. I won't say every time. I'll give 0:58:31.200 --> 0:58:34.400 her most of the time. But my sister, like I said, 0:58:34.440 --> 0:58:37.120 we're pretty much the same person, and there's six years 0:58:37.120 --> 0:58:40.120 between us, but people would think that we're the same person. 0:58:39.920 --> 0:58:42.040 Really so, except she's a bit scarier. 0:58:42.640 --> 0:58:45.920 Yeah, she's definitely. She's definitely a bit scarier. She's definitely 0:58:46.000 --> 0:58:49.040 the more. If she tells you she's gonna fight, you 0:58:50.440 --> 0:58:52.360 put the gloves on because you're gonna get into a 0:58:52.400 --> 0:58:54.200 fight with her. Really so. 0:58:55.280 --> 0:58:58.400 But yeah, Zachie, thank you so much. I really do 0:58:58.520 --> 0:59:02.400 appreciate your honesty, your insight. I hope it helps a 0:59:02.480 --> 0:59:04.840 lot of people listening to understand you a bit better, 0:59:05.040 --> 0:59:08.439 understand culture a bit better, and hopefully have their own 0:59:08.440 --> 0:59:11.240 conversations about it. So I really appreciate you coming. 0:59:11.080 --> 0:59:16.880 On nah, I loved it. It's good chat. Thanks Nis time. 0:59:18.400 --> 0:59:21.640 Thanks for listening to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking. If 0:59:21.680 --> 0:59:24.760 this chat has been triggering for you, please ask for help. 0:59:24.960 --> 0:59:28.040 Lifeline and Beyond Blue are just a couple of places 0:59:28.120 --> 0:59:30.320 you can go if you want to get in touch 0:59:30.560 --> 0:59:35.760 at ordinarily Underscore Speaking on Instagram or at narrowly Underscore 0:59:35.840 --> 0:59:39.400 Meadows on Twitter. If you like the track, It's Woody Pitney, 0:59:39.560 --> 0:59:42.840 check him out. A new episode will drop on Wednesday. 0:59:43.000 --> 1:00:01.960 Don't forget to hit subscribe and tell your mates because 1:00:02.000 --> 1:00:08.240 I'm con betraying the fire run with let me Let 1:00:08.320 --> 1:00:09.320 You Water Me Go