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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, when we are materialistic as parents, that is when

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Speaker 2: we use materialistic gifts to say, you know, I love

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Speaker 2: you so much, and here's what I'm giving you because

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Speaker 2: of it that actually enhances and builds materialism in our kids.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Ho ho ho mery crip, you don't you're looking at

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Speaker 2: me like there's a mom?

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Speaker 3: Is that the best? Ho ho ho You've got? Well?

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Speaker 2: No, but I don't want to be all silly about

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Speaker 2: it and go will Sander right, just come on, This

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Speaker 2: is doctor Justin Colson doing a terrible Santa. Obviously, missus

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Speaker 2: Happy Families has not been impressed. I'm the author of

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Speaker 2: six books about raising happy families, my wife and co

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Speaker 2: host The Mom Do Our six Daughters. Hey, we get

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Speaker 2: awesome feedback from you via the Apple podcast app, where

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Speaker 2: people leave ratings and reviews, but also via podcasts at

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Speaker 2: happy families dot com.

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Speaker 4: Today you and doctor.

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Speaker 2: Andrew Hatch from Canada has sent us a voice memo.

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Speaker 4: How awesome is this feedback?

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Speaker 5: Wife and I started listening to your podcast about two

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Speaker 5: three months ago, and we've found the advice and counsel

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Speaker 5: that you give to be the thing that we were

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Speaker 5: looking for. Between the two of us, we have close

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Speaker 5: to fifteen sixteen years of post secondary our education in

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Speaker 5: childhood education, behavioral neuroscience. I'm a practicing clinician, and we

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Speaker 5: felt like we've struggled raising our children and struggled trying

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Speaker 5: to help them be the best they can be. And

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Speaker 5: I'd just like to thank you for the tremendous difference

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Speaker 5: that you're making for my family and I hope for

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Speaker 5: many other families. I know both my wife and I

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Speaker 5: share your podcast everybody that we know, and hopefully you'll

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Speaker 5: be able to continue doing this for many years to come.

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Speaker 2: We are so grateful for that feedback. Thank you Andrew

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Speaker 2: for taking the time to send us a voice memo.

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Speaker 2: If you would like to send us feedback, it makes

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Speaker 2: our Christmas, it makes our day. We love getting your

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Speaker 2: feedback about how the podcast has helped.

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Speaker 4: You can email us.

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Speaker 2: Podcasts at podcasts with Anes at Happy Families dot com

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Speaker 2: dot au. You can also just jump onto Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 2: and leave a rating and review, because when you do that,

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Speaker 2: other people get to find out about the show. Now

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Speaker 2: today's topic. I'm really excited about this. We received some

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Speaker 2: feedback from somebody again via podcast at happy families dot

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Speaker 2: com dot you.

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Speaker 4: What was their question?

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Speaker 3: They mentioned that their children are obsessed with expensive presence

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Speaker 3: that they can't afford as a family. They want to

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Speaker 3: know how they can avoid disappointing their children on Christmas morning.

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Speaker 2: So this kind of taps into there's a few different

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Speaker 2: ways that we can approach this, but I want to

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Speaker 2: talk specifically about the issue of materialism, because whether you're

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Speaker 2: rich or poor, whether you've got finances or you know

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Speaker 2: and your flush or you're completely out, the children do

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Speaker 2: have expectations at Christmas. But there's some really cool science

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Speaker 2: that's only been published just in the last couple of

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Speaker 2: years that really allops this idea of materialism and where

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Speaker 2: it comes from.

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Speaker 4: Can I share it with you? I want to geek out.

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Speaker 4: You're going to geek Oh, okay, all right, this is Kylie.

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Speaker 4: Whenever hit me. Whever I start talking about science, guys like,

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Speaker 4: oh my goodness, can we just be real? This is

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Speaker 4: really real.

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Speaker 2: So these scientists are published in the Journal of Consumer Research.

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Speaker 4: They expanded on.

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Speaker 2: Some like decades of really cool research, and here's what

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Speaker 2: they found. Children who receive material rewards from their parents

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Speaker 2: are more likely to be materialistic because they see material

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Speaker 2: goodies as a signal that they are valuable people, that

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Speaker 2: they are worthy. So the material possessions basically say, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm enhancing myself. It defines who I am. In other words,

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Speaker 2: when we are materialistic as parents, that is when we

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Speaker 2: use materialistic gifts to say, you know, I love you

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Speaker 2: so much, and here's what I'm giving you because of it.

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Speaker 2: That that actually enhances and builds materialism in our kids.

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Speaker 2: They feel like they need material things to demonstrate that

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Speaker 2: they're of worth.

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Speaker 3: So that that whole extrinsic motivation or extrinsic recognition, yeah,

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Speaker 3: helps them to feel of worth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when I've got things that are fancy, When I've

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Speaker 2: got you know, the latest phone or the latest do

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Speaker 2: dad the latest give mod that all the kids at

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Speaker 2: school are talking about, then I've got status and I'm

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Speaker 2: of worth. There's that extrinsic focus, and that's the materialistic pathway.

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Speaker 2: And what happens there is that I mean, society as

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Speaker 2: a whole certainly perpetuates and fosters that the school yard,

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Speaker 2: without question can do that, but it actually starts in

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Speaker 2: the home, and this research highlights that. There's also another

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Speaker 2: really interesting thing that they the research has found, and

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Speaker 2: that is that when parents are rejecting of their kids,

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Speaker 2: you know, when parents are not warm towards their children,

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Speaker 2: then the kids just gravitate to those external material, realistic

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Speaker 2: symbols as a signal.

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Speaker 4: That I'm good enough. Yep, and so I reckon.

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Speaker 2: Now, I'm not suggesting that this is the case for

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Speaker 2: the person who emailed us. I'm sure that they're living

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Speaker 2: in a beautiful home and looking after their family the

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Speaker 2: best that they can. But it's so critically important that

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Speaker 2: we don't foster insecurity in our children by making material rewards,

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Speaker 2: material gifts some sort of a symbol of how worthy

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Speaker 2: they are. We actually need to create the connection and

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Speaker 2: the relationship as the symbol, not the materialism. So that's

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Speaker 2: my science geek out.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it works really well into I guess

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Speaker 3: where I'd like to take our conversation. I know how

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Speaker 3: much you love to geek out with all of the science,

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Speaker 3: and as I was listening to I think the thing

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Speaker 3: that just really stands out to me is it's really

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Speaker 3: about changing the focus of what we do at Christmas

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Speaker 3: time with our children.

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Speaker 2: Well not just at Christmas time, but right throughout the year,

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Speaker 2: but certainly at Christmas.

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Speaker 4: You know the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: You know, sand is only going to give you a

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Speaker 2: gift if you've been nice, not naughty. That's an extrinsic

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Speaker 2: marker of your value to Santa or to me as

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Speaker 2: a person. And I reckon, there's a really big problem

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Speaker 2: with this. This extrinsic reward actually promotes a materialistic approach

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Speaker 2: to life.

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Speaker 3: I have actually never thought about it like that. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: We've had lots of discussions around Santa in our home,

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Speaker 3: and you know, kind of what part he's going to

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Speaker 3: play in our Christmas as a family, But I've never

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Speaker 3: actually thought about that extrinsic recognition.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, bit mind blown, right, But you'll I don't know

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Speaker 2: if I've ever even been explicit with you about it,

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Speaker 2: But in our home, we don't do a lot when

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Speaker 2: it comes to giving the kids big gifts and making

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Speaker 2: a big deal about materialistic stuff. We just don't do that.

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Speaker 2: And I've always just had it in my mind. Maybe

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Speaker 2: I've never even told you. The more we do that,

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Speaker 2: the more kids actually feel that they're a value when

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Speaker 2: they're getting that stuff, but when they're not getting that stuff,

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Speaker 2: they start to question their value.

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Speaker 4: Whereas our approach is very different.

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Speaker 2: We actually try to minimize a focus on anything materialistic

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Speaker 2: or extrinsic without being all austere and making our kids

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Speaker 2: feel impoverished. I mean, we still live I think, a

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Speaker 2: really nice life with our family, but it's not about

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Speaker 2: the stuff. Stuff doesn't make you happy. It's about the connection.

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Speaker 4: And I love that focus love.

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Speaker 3: I love that we yet to spend time with our

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Speaker 3: children in really meaningful ways as a result.

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Speaker 2: So after the break, we're going to share five ways,

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Speaker 2: regardless of your financial position, five ways that you can

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Speaker 2: help your kids to move away from materialism and have

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Speaker 2: those high expectations from Santa at Christmas.

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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 6: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having

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Speaker 6: to feel bad or in trouble. The dos and don'ts

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Speaker 6: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits

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Speaker 6: with love, compassion and humanity.

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Speaker 4: Find it now at.

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Speaker 6: Happyfamilies dot com dot a u slash shop.

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Speaker 3: It's a Happy Families podcast, The podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now and we have

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Speaker 3: been to talking today about how we can help our

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Speaker 3: children to not.

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Speaker 2: Be so materialistic, and the reality is they're going to

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Speaker 2: be right, Like, if all their friends are getting this

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Speaker 2: really cool thing, they're probably going to want it. And

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Speaker 2: sometimes I think it's okay to get it for them,

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Speaker 2: Like sometimes that's fine. I don't want this podcast to

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Speaker 2: sound like we're all like, you know, don't let the

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Speaker 2: kids have cool stuff, because that's not it at all.

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Speaker 2: If you're in a position to do it and you

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Speaker 2: want to spoil them every now and again, go for

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Speaker 2: your life, fill your boots, have fun with that. But

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Speaker 2: it's not always going to make them happy and they're

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Speaker 2: not always going to remember it. So definitely it's fun

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Speaker 2: to have fun with gift giving. But over the last

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Speaker 2: I mean, we've been married for twenty two to twenty

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Speaker 2: three years, and I reckon over that time period, probably

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Speaker 2: twenty of those years, we have been so tight financially

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Speaker 2: and we've been thinking how in the world we're going

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Speaker 2: to get through Christmas. And so I want to talk

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Speaker 2: about five different ways that we can remove the focus

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Speaker 2: of materialism from our kids so that they can have

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Speaker 2: a wonderful Christmas without being so obsessed with getting the

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Speaker 2: expensive gifts.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think one of the first things is just

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Speaker 3: not trying to keep up with the Joneses. I know,

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Speaker 3: I was a Jones.

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Speaker 4: Jones Kylie Jones. I try to keep up with the Joneses.

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Speaker 4: There wasn't much to keep up with.

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Speaker 3: But I think that's really important that you know, whatever

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Speaker 3: your focus is at Christmas, it's about your family, not

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Speaker 3: what you know the next two neighbors are doing, or

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Speaker 3: what the family down the streets doing.

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Speaker 4: And we've even said that to our kids. You know,

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Speaker 4: they're like, oh, but so and So've got such and such.

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Speaker 2: And we see, I know, and their family can afford

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Speaker 2: that this year, but our family is not in a

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Speaker 2: position to do that. So we're going to be grateful

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Speaker 2: for what we've got and we're going to shift the focus.

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Speaker 2: But not trying to keep up is a critical way

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Speaker 2: to do that.

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Speaker 3: And so one year, one of the things that we did,

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Speaker 3: actually one of my favorite Christmases that we've had with

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Speaker 3: our children, is we decided that we were going to

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Speaker 3: have a homemade Christmas. I was right into my crafting

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Speaker 3: back then and love just spending time, you know, working

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Speaker 3: with my hands, and I thought it would be really

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Speaker 3: nice to start to inspire the children's creativity firstly, but

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Speaker 3: secondly teach them skills.

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Speaker 2: And thirdly, we were broke, well we broke, we had

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Speaker 2: no money, so homemade Christmas was basically we made stuff

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Speaker 2: for each other.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so they got one on one time with me

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Speaker 3: because we sat down. We talked about the secret sister

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Speaker 3: name that they'd pulled out of the hat and what

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Speaker 3: they might like for Christmas. And one of my favorite gifts.

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Speaker 3: I've actually just been going through some of the kids

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Speaker 3: keepsakes and found it the other day. Ella, she was

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Speaker 3: probably about maybe eight when we did this Christmas. She

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Speaker 3: made up a poem that became a story. It was

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Speaker 3: a little story about it's time to get up, it's

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Speaker 3: time to get up, it's time to get up, it's

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Speaker 3: time to get up for school today, or something like

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Speaker 3: that was a little rime that she made. And so

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Speaker 3: she actually stepped her little sister.

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Speaker 4: Who was starting school is the next month.

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Speaker 3: That's right, who's going to start school, stepped her through

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Speaker 3: the routine of what she needed to do in the

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Speaker 3: morning to get ready for school. And she then you

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Speaker 3: to her little sister and took photos of the two

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Speaker 3: of them doing those things like brushing her teeth.

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Speaker 2: They got dressed up in their school uniforms and took

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Speaker 2: the photos and put it all together as an album

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Speaker 2: with the poem to guide her sister through the morning

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Speaker 2: for when she started a big school.

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Speaker 3: And it was such a beautiful gift. Like I said,

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Speaker 3: I just pulled it out the other day and I

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Speaker 3: couldn't help smiling because it was just it was such

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Speaker 3: a simple thing, and yet it's something that they'll be

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Speaker 3: able to look back on for years.

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Speaker 2: So basically that Christmas there was no materialism because we

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Speaker 2: weren't spending any money. It was actually what I'm building

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Speaker 2: for you, what I'm making for you, what I'm creating,

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Speaker 2: and it was so good, like you said, relationally and creatively.

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Speaker 2: So that's the first idea, Just don't try to keep

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Speaker 2: up with people. Go your own way, do your own thing.

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Speaker 2: Second thing, what I love about you, Kylie, is you

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Speaker 2: love to shop. I do love That's actually not what

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Speaker 2: I love about you. But the reason you love to

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Speaker 2: shop is because you're a savvy shopper and so all

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Speaker 2: year long, you know that at the end of the year,

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Speaker 2: we're probably going to do, you know, something to wear,

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Speaker 2: something to read, something they want, something they need, and

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Speaker 2: so as the year on, you're actually looking out for

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Speaker 2: opportunities to snag bargains, which means when we get to Christmas,

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Speaker 2: we've already got most of the stuff.

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Speaker 4: That we need.

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Speaker 2: We've paid peanuts for it because you've got it on

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Speaker 2: special throughout the year. And that's our second idea for

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Speaker 2: removing the materialism. Just let the kids know this is

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Speaker 2: how we do Christmas.

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Speaker 4: That's the way it's going to be.

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Speaker 2: The third thing is a really simple one as well,

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Speaker 2: and I don't think it requires a lot of time

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Speaker 2: and focus. Just don't make it a big deal. Don't

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Speaker 2: carry on about how much expensive stuff we're doing, or

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Speaker 2: how we're doing this, or I paid this much for that,

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Speaker 2: or this was the really big gift this year. I

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Speaker 2: just don't make it a big deal. Sometimes kids get

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Speaker 2: big stuff, sometimes they don't.

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Speaker 3: And I guess that's what I love about what we

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Speaker 3: do with the four gifts. You know, it's just there's

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Speaker 3: no price tag attached to it. Everybody gets four gifts,

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Speaker 3: and because it all fits into those different themes each

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Speaker 3: the children are just happy with the four gifts that

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Speaker 3: they get. They're not comparing with the other person, what book.

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Speaker 4: Did you get? Because of books and book.

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Speaker 3: You know, and clothing just excited to get a few

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Speaker 3: new outfits. So I really like the fact that, you know,

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Speaker 3: because of the way we've set things up for our kids,

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Speaker 3: it's not a big deal.

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Speaker 2: So the last two ideas that we've got, let's go

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Speaker 2: through these fairly briefly, but they are I think the

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Speaker 2: two most important ones. I'm going to combine them. Number four,

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Speaker 2: just change the focus. I reckon, there's a couple of

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Speaker 2: things that you were talking to me about before that

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Speaker 2: are worth highlighting here.

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Speaker 3: So two things that we've done which I have absolutely

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Speaker 3: loved and have completely changed the way we did Christmas.

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Speaker 3: That year, we went on our very first international family holiday.

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Speaker 4: We've never been.

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Speaker 3: On an international family holidays.

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Speaker 4: It was like four years ago.

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Speaker 2: And let me give you some context here because this

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Speaker 2: is important. We decided that we were going to take

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Speaker 2: the family away for Christmas, but we also wanted it

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Speaker 2: to be not just about the family and not just

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Speaker 2: you know, indulgent, but we wanted it to be for

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Speaker 2: a good cause. And so at a charity auction, I

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Speaker 2: bought a holiday to Bali at that charity auction, which

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Speaker 2: meant that the money that I was paying for the

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Speaker 2: holiday was actually being donated to a charity rather than

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Speaker 2: just paying for a holiday. It kind of it felt

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Speaker 2: good to spend money on a holiday for us and

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Speaker 2: that we were helping people, so that was a really

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Speaker 2: cool thing.

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Speaker 3: We probably wouldn't have had a holiday if it wasn't

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Speaker 3: for the auction, because it's not money that we would

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Speaker 3: have normally spent on ourselves like that, but because of

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Speaker 3: the focus, it allowed us the opportunity to benefit as well,

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Speaker 3: which was so much fun.

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Speaker 2: A really quick story about that as well. When I

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Speaker 2: was bidding, I was actually goofing off. I didn't really

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Speaker 2: intend to buy the holiday, and somebody else put up

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Speaker 2: their hand at the same time that I bid, and

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Speaker 2: the auctioneer said, you've got it, and you've got it,

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Speaker 2: and then he pointed to someone else whose hand was

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Speaker 2: going up and sad, and you've got it too, and

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Speaker 2: he sold all three of them.

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Speaker 3: He did.

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Speaker 2: There was only one on offer, but he actually said

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Speaker 2: all three of you, and you've all paid that much money.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, oh no, because I didn't really

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Speaker 2: mean to buy it. But anyway, we donated and we won.

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Speaker 2: We won, We won a holiday. At an auction that

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Speaker 2: we paid for and we helped other people out, which

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Speaker 2: was great.

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Speaker 3: Well, what was awesome about that was that it was

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Speaker 3: a holiday for ten people we only have eight people

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Speaker 3: in our family. That we only have eight people, and

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Speaker 3: we got to take my mum and dad who'd never

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Speaker 3: been overseas before, which was super super fun, and they

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Speaker 3: got to experience things that they'd never experienced. But the

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Speaker 3: thing that was actually super special about this was by

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Speaker 3: the time we went to actually book the holiday, the

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Speaker 3: only time we could do this was literally over Christmas

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Speaker 3: Day and Boxing Day.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so none of this was actually meant to happen

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Speaker 2: like this, but it's just how it all worked out.

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Speaker 2: So we were away for Christmas on this holiday that

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Speaker 2: I didn't mean to buy, but it was for a

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Speaker 2: charity and it was for a good cause, and it

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Speaker 2: all worked out really nicely.

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Speaker 3: Because of that, we didn't have presents that year. We

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Speaker 3: literally that year was just about experiencing another place in

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Speaker 3: the world together as a family, and our focus was

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Speaker 3: just family time and it today is a highlight.

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Speaker 2: So that changes the focus completely. The final way to

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Speaker 2: move away from materialism with the kids.

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Speaker 3: I think you have to be an example it has

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Speaker 3: to start with you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, if you're all about the presence, and if

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Speaker 2: you're all about what you get what you get, if

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Speaker 2: you're all about filling up underneath the tree and making

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Speaker 2: it a huge deal, then it's probably going to happen

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Speaker 2: that the kids are going to follow your lead. In

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Speaker 2: my webinar how to Unspoil the Kids for Christmas, I

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Speaker 2: talked about how there are three levels to Christmas. The

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Speaker 2: first one is the Santa clause, Ho Ho Ho, Merry Christmas.

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Speaker 2: That's the too much food and too many presents, and

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Speaker 2: you can have an awesome Christmas when you do that,

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Speaker 2: like there's nothing the matter with Level one Christmas. Level

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Speaker 2: two Christmas is where you've got the Christmas carols and

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Speaker 2: you maybe put an activity scene up and you do

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Speaker 2: some of the stuff that a lot of people will say, well,

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Speaker 2: this is the true meaning of Christmas, and you focus

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Speaker 2: on the traditional Christmas things that we do. It's probably

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Speaker 2: going a little bit deeper with you know, having some

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Speaker 2: time with family and really focusing on family time.

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Speaker 4: And then there's the level three Christmas.

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Speaker 2: Now for those who've got a faith tradition, then that's

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Speaker 2: going to be a really heavy emphasis on faith.

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Speaker 4: But for those who.

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Speaker 2: Don't, you can still really go to a level three

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Speaker 2: Christmas by focusing on generosity and service and sacrifice and

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Speaker 2: not thinking about yourself but thinking about other people at

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Speaker 2: a time where there's a lot of really vulnerable people,

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Speaker 2: people who are really challenged, and I think that's what

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Speaker 2: we're really talking about. Here be an example by shifting

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Speaker 2: the focus away from self towards others.

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Speaker 3: I love it makes me happy well.

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Speaker 4: I love talking about Christmas.

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Speaker 2: Christmas is the most wonderful time of the year, and

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Speaker 2: I love being.

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Speaker 4: Able to do it on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: If you've enjoyed the podcast, we would so very much

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Speaker 2: appreciate you taking a minute or two, maybe over the

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Speaker 2: Christmas break, when you've got a minute or two, jumping

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Speaker 2: into Apple Podcasts and leaving a rating and review, letting

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Speaker 2: people know how you're enjoying it and why it means

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Speaker 2: so much to us, and it helps other people to

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Speaker 2: find the show and make their families happier. We appreciate

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Speaker 2: Justin Rulin from Bridge Media for producing the podcast, and

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Speaker 2: our executive producer as always is Craig Bruce.

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Speaker 4: If you'd like more

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Speaker 2: Info about making your family happy, you can fight it

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Speaker 2: all at happy Families dot com dot au.