1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Now we know new Australian Bureau of Statistics starters been 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: released and it shows that spending on minerals exploration in 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: the Northern Territories fallen by almost half compared with this 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: time last year. December quarter figures have been released and 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: it shows that mineral exploration expenditure dropped by twenty seven 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: percent over that three month period. It's a forty five 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: percent decline from the same time last year. Now joining 8 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: me in the studio to talk more about the situation 9 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: is Catherine Tilmouth, the Executive director of the Minerals Council 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: of the Northern Territory. Good Born and Cat Katie. Good 11 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: to have you in the studio, Thanks so much for 12 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: your time. Now, December quarter figures been released as I 13 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: touched on there, showing that mineral exploration expenditure has dropped 14 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 1: by twenty seven percent over that three month period, of 15 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: forty five percent decline from the same time last year. Like, 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: how concerning is this? 17 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 2: Look, it's it's pretty concerning. We used to have some 18 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: of the highest expiration figures and we would be concerned 19 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 2: about converting those into operating minds. Now, as I talk 20 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 2: about quite a lot, is that mining royalties is one 21 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: of the biggest bill payers in the Northern Territory, so 22 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 2: it makes up I think about thirty eight percent of 23 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 2: the own source revenue in the Northern Territory. It's the 24 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: things that goes to the anti economy to help the 25 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: anti government pay for things like schools, roads, hospitals. So 26 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 2: the exploration expenditure is that first line. It's the going 27 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: out and finding the commodities, and once you've done that, 28 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 2: then you work up your business and then you can 29 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 2: turn that into a mine. What that decline of figures 30 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: and expenditure says is that we haven't got investors even 31 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: going out spending the money and looking for things in 32 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: the anti anymore. And that goes down to investor confidence. 33 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 2: So they're seeing that the processes are taking too long, 34 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: costing too much, so then going somewhere else to spend 35 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: that money and look for things well. 36 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: Which seems bizarre because we are such a resource reach. 37 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: We have got a lot to offer. There's a lot 38 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 2: of things underground. There's nothing wrong with the rocks in 39 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 2: the Northern Territory. We've got a lot. We've got those 40 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: critical minerals, we've got the things for electric vehicles, and 41 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: you know, connectivity in the wind turbines and the solar 42 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 2: panels and the things that the world wants. But you know, 43 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: there's been a few things that have happened recently. You know, 44 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: we saw under the previous government, we had that big, 45 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: huge change moving the approvals from the Mind's Department into 46 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 2: the Environment Department, and that really spooked a lot of investors. 47 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: Well, I guess it would, because you'd sort of go, well, 48 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: hang on a second, are we actually trying to get 49 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: things moving or are we trying to stop things from moving? 50 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: And I'm not suggesting, you know, the Environment Department that 51 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: that's what they're doing, but a lot of people working 52 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: in those sectors probably do feel a little bit that 53 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: way based on work that they've maybe done in other 54 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: locations around the world. 55 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 2: If you put word uncertainty in front of any sort 56 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 2: of investor for any kind of business, you're gonna get 57 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 2: a bit spoot. You're gonna get scared. And that's kind 58 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 2: of what's happened. Any sort of business wants to know 59 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 2: how long and how much a business is going to take, 60 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: and that's where we've kind of hit that that bump. 61 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: So in terms of the in terms of the approvals 62 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: process going into the Department of Environment rather than being 63 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: with Minds and Energy. I think it's sid how long 64 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: has it been in that department for So. 65 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 2: They made the change before the last election and it's 66 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: been in that process since July of last year, so 67 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: it's been pretty much you can see that's where those 68 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: changes and expirations happened, Express and expenditure has happened, and 69 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 2: so it's been just that processing through and we've seen 70 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: notable delays since then in getting those processes and getting 71 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: those approvals through. 72 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: Is it something that you've spoken to the new government 73 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: about and do they have a desire to move those 74 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: approvals processes somewhere else? 75 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: Look, we have, we have mentioned it. I know I've 76 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 2: spoken to you before it even happened that we've wanted 77 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: this not to occur. This was a twenty sixteen election 78 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 2: commitment that the previous government followed through on that we 79 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: wanted us to not lose that contextual understanding, like you know, 80 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: to put it into the most basic of terms. You know, 81 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 2: if I wanted to get my hair done, I'm not 82 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 2: going to go to my mechanic. Yeah, do you want 83 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 2: to you want to go to someone who knows what 84 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 2: they're doing or knows what they're looking at when they're 85 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 2: doing it. So we wanted to maintain that contextual understanding 86 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: of what's happening on a mind site when they're approving 87 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 2: the minds. We do understand that the public servants are 88 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: doing the best that they can, but if they're not 89 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: the expert in that area, they probably shouldn't be approving 90 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 2: those approvals. So we have mentioned that we are allowing 91 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 2: there to be some sort of time frame for the 92 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 2: pro to run its course, but we're already seeing the 93 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: feedback that it is taking a long time. And the 94 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: longer that these processes take, the longer that territorians actually 95 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 2: miss out on those minds coming to fruition, on those 96 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 2: jobs flowing through, on those contracts being handed out to 97 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 2: territory businesses, on royalties being handed out. There's you know, 98 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 2: to the antique government, on people actually seeing the benefits, 99 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: and when they're not coming to YEA, when they're not 100 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 2: coming to NT, they're going into Western Australia. You don't 101 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: have to be genius to say you've got seven minds 102 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 2: operating in the NT. Look at West Australia, look at Queensland. 103 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 2: They are flush with cash and that's because they've got 104 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 2: a lot of minds and. 105 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: The reality of it is, you know, you go to 106 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: a place like regional Queensland where I grew up, and 107 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people, you know, in remote communities, in 108 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: indigenous communities, if there are mines nearby, they've got jobs. 109 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: Everybody's working, you know. So it is actually a situation 110 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: where it means that there is you know, there's a 111 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: benefit to the whole community. 112 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and in the areas in those regional areas, Like 113 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 2: there's no secret our government is doing it tough, like 114 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 2: their pockets are empty. A lot of times. It's mining 115 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: operations that are able to patch those holes. They put 116 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: in that infrastructure, they put in the roads, they put 117 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 2: in there, they put in their air services, they put 118 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: in the emergency services, that frontline infrastructure that you need, 119 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 2: and they're able to help with to connect communities. We're 120 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 2: you're not able to pay for it and with government money. 121 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: Kat are there any projects sort of waiting at this 122 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: point in time to get approval. 123 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: There are about nineteen developing projects at the moment that 124 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: just have small little bits and pieces, and like we're 125 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: really excited from an industry perspective to see some of 126 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 2: the powers that are potentially going to be put in 127 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 2: place if with the passing of the Territory Coordinator legislation, 128 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: Because some of the powers that are going to be 129 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 2: put in place are the things like the infrastructure coordination. 130 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: Because to make a project feasible, it's not just the 131 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 2: you have an approval for your mining exploration or your 132 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 2: license or things like or any of the land access. 133 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 2: It's also do you have electricity generation that is affordable? 134 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: Do you have an ability to get your crew from 135 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: the site back home again? And so it's all that 136 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 2: adding up those little bits and pieces to make something 137 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 2: a feasible project. So that extra infrastructure that the Territory 138 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: Coordinator is going to be able to help do, and 139 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: also the ability to go right, this project or this 140 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 2: application needs to be done and decided on this date 141 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: because it's in the best interest of the territory to 142 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: get it going, get the money flowing, get the jobs 143 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: out there, and get everything happening. 144 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: So, in terms of those nineteen developing projects, how long 145 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: have some of them been waiting for approval? 146 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: Some of them for a while, like years, many many years. 147 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 2: Some of them that Look, Wow, it's hard to compare 148 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 2: all of them to each other. Wels of them have 149 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 2: to do with finance financing. But that also adds to 150 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 2: if you're an investor, you're not going to invest in 151 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: one of these projects if you're looking at the entire 152 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 2: investment context in the Northern Territor and go, why am 153 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: I going to invest in this project if I know 154 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: it's not going to get through the Environmental Department? 155 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: Yes, spot on, if there's too many hurdles to jump, 156 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: But I'm not suggesting anybody's trying to get out. 157 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 2: Those ones to cut any corners. 158 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's just taking too long. 159 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got we're getting a bad reputation. 160 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: Which is not good when it comes to the resource industry. Now, 161 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: tell me in terms of you know them waiting for 162 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: approvals the nineteen developing projects, what kinds of projects are 163 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: we talking? Like? Are we talking gold exploration. 164 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: Gold copper? You know, rareer It's is the big one, 165 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 2: rares It's the big ticket item. It's the thing that 166 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 2: you know, You've got wind turbines, you've got solar panels, 167 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 2: you've got all of those sort of electric connectivity. I 168 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 2: wish I was a geologist. Amber will be probably cringing 169 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: right now because I'll mispronounce something that you know, we've 170 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 2: got the big ones that are waiting in the wings, 171 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 2: that have all of their approvals, but they're going to 172 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: be the ones that change the way the Northern Territory 173 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 2: has looked at when they get over the line, like 174 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 2: Ourfura whichever it talks about with neodimium. We've got some 175 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 2: copper projects, which you know they talk about we need 176 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: more copper in the next twenty years, and we've mined 177 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 2: in the last two hundred just to reach some of 178 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 2: our you know, targets in electricity connectivity, because you know, 179 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: we all want more mobile phones and more electric vehicles 180 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: and more we plug everything into the walls nowadays, you 181 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 2: know those sorts of projects, and the Northern Territory has 182 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: so many of these resources. I think we've got thirteen 183 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 2: out of the seventeen that makes up an electric vehicle. 184 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: But we can't get it out of there. 185 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 2: We just can't get it out of the ground. And 186 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: the problem with the Northern Territory will face is that 187 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 2: the window of opportunity will close because the technology moves 188 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 2: so fast. By the time we get an approval, they 189 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: will have found something else to make about tree hours. 190 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: So it's pretty pivotal that we do get things moving sooner. 191 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: We need agility to be lined up with the technology. 192 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: Do you think this, and you did touch on this 193 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: a moment ago, do you think that that role of 194 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: territory coordinator is going to help in terms of getting 195 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: things moving? 196 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely, it is about making we need to move away 197 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 2: from you know, there used to be this culture that 198 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 2: the Northern Territory has all of these resources. These mining 199 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 2: companies will pay and do whatever it takes because they're 200 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 2: going to be rich, and you know they'll do whatever 201 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 2: it is. Those days are long gone. Everything is so 202 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: fast and so instant. If you want to reap the 203 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 2: benefits and do the best for your community, you need 204 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: to keep up. You need to keep up with the 205 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: world market. You need to be as fast and as 206 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 2: agile and on your toes as everyone else. We can't 207 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 2: just sit back and wait anymore. We've sat back and wait, 208 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 2: and now look at us. Yeah, it's going. 209 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: To be left. Yeah, and we don't want to be 210 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: you know, we want to see those benefits. And you know, 211 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: nobody is suggesting, like I said before, that we don't 212 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: go through all the approvals processes, but it has to 213 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: be sped up severely. By the sounds of things, I mean, 214 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: with those nineteen projects, with some of them waiting years 215 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,839 Speaker 1: and years, that's quite unbelievable, you know, and I think 216 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people listening would be pretty surprised to hear. 217 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 2: That as well. Yes, definitely. 218 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: Well, Cat Tillmouth, the Minerals Council's Northern Territory executive director, 219 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: I really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you very 220 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: much for joining me in the studio. 221 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 2: Thank you. 222 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: Thanks