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Speaker 1: Hello.

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Speaker 2: My name is Satasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yor

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Speaker 2: the Order Kerni Whaltbury and a waddery woman. And before

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Speaker 2: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I

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Speaker 2: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land

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Speaker 2: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,

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Speaker 2: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming

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Speaker 2: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing

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Speaker 2: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for

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Speaker 2: today and lasting impact for tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into it.

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Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.

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Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast

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Speaker 4: that helps you feel good about money even when life

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Speaker 4: is falling apart a little bit or a lot. I'm

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Speaker 4: Victoria Devine, and today we are talking about something that

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Speaker 4: doesn't come with a budget, tenplate or a five step

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Speaker 4: financial plan. We're talking about what it really costs to

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Speaker 4: survive when your brain, your body, and your entire world

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Speaker 4: stop co operating. Because sometimes the hardest thing isn't managing

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Speaker 4: your money, it's managing to stay afloat at all. And

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Speaker 4: yet rent is still due groceries still cost money. Life

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Speaker 4: doesn't pause just because you are struggling. And that's the

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Speaker 4: reality for my two guests today who know this a

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Speaker 4: lot better than most. Jamilla Risby is a best selling

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Speaker 4: author and advocate who, at thirty one, was diagnosed with

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Speaker 4: a rare and aggressive brain tumor. Rosy Waterland is a

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Speaker 4: writer and comedian whose childhood was shaped by poverty, addiction,

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Speaker 4: and survival, and whose adult life has been shaped by

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Speaker 4: complex trauma. Together they've written Broken Brains, a raw, funny

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Speaker 4: and painfully honest look at what happens when your health,

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Speaker 4: your finances, and your sense of self all come under pressure.

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Speaker 4: Jamilla and Rosie, we are genuinely so excited to have

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Speaker 4: you on the show. Welcome.

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Speaker 1: It's very excited to bless that.

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Speaker 4: I am very excited. You have just published your book,

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Speaker 4: Broken Brains, and it is all about your personal experiences,

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Speaker 4: your illnesses and shame, and the system that then made

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Speaker 4: it even harder for you guys to thrive. Talk to

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Speaker 4: me about what your broken Brain journey has looked like

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Speaker 4: in real life.

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Speaker 3: Well, why don't I go first and then Rosie can

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Speaker 3: tell you a bit about her.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because you guys are so different, but then when

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Speaker 4: you come together in the book, it just makes sense

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Speaker 4: the same. It was amazing. I was kind of like

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Speaker 4: before obviously having a look at it, being like okay,

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Speaker 4: all right, read it, and I'm like, this makes so

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Speaker 4: much sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I was diagnosed with a brain tumor called a

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Speaker 3: cranioferngioma when I was thirty one, quite an unusual kind

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Speaker 3: of brain tumor. So it affects every one in one

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Speaker 3: million to one and a half million people, so I'm

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Speaker 3: very special. I love being rare, but not like that. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 3: it's not kind of rare.

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Speaker 5: You want to be.

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Speaker 3: Actually, when you're sick, you want to be as pedestrian

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Speaker 3: as possible.

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Speaker 4: Way to go kind of illness.

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Speaker 3: So when I was diagnosed, it was obviously massive shock,

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Speaker 3: and what followed that was a series of brain surgeries

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Speaker 3: as the tumor kept growing back when they would remove it,

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Speaker 3: and then ultimately radiation treatment. I had thirty six rounds

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Speaker 3: of radiation thirty six Yeah, so six days a week

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Speaker 3: for six weeks, which by the end of that I

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Speaker 3: felt like they'd burned out that my insides. It was

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Speaker 3: pretty hectic, and then probably took about two years for

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Speaker 3: the full extent of the brain injuries that I'd acquired

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Speaker 3: to kind of make themselves known. And I still live

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Speaker 3: with those, now, live with the whole bunch of medications

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Speaker 3: and treatments that continue. But I'm five years no tumor growth.

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Speaker 4: I love that. That makes me so happy. You literally

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Speaker 4: burnt it out. It's gone. Yeah, it's gone. And Rosie

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Speaker 4: tell me your journey.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So mine seems a little differend on the surface,

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Speaker 1: Like you said, so, I had a pretty difficult childhood.

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Speaker 1: Both my parents were alcoholics, drug addicts, they were mentally ill.

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Speaker 1: My sisters and I were in and out of the

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Speaker 1: foster system. There was a lot of neglect and abuse.

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Speaker 1: And I guess the best way I would describe it

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Speaker 1: is people often think that trauma is the event, but

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Speaker 1: trauma is what I deal with now. So if you

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Speaker 1: look at my childhood as the car crash, the trauma

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Speaker 1: I live with as an adult is the brain injury

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Speaker 1: caused by that car crash. So I started showing really

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Speaker 1: significant symptoms when I was about seventeen, so about twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago, and I've been in treatment on and off

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Speaker 1: when I could afford it ever since. I do take

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Speaker 1: a lot of medications as well. I have symptoms that

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Speaker 1: I'll be dealing with for the rest of my life. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think it was not long after Jamila's first

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Speaker 1: surgery that she was looking for someone, anyone to talk

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Speaker 1: to who she felt like might understand what it's like

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Speaker 1: to feel sort of out of control of your to

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Speaker 1: not have control of your body and brain. And she

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Speaker 1: came to me and we, like you said, didn't think

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Speaker 1: we would have a lot in common, but realize very

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Speaker 1: quickly we have a lot in common.

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Speaker 4: Actually, Yeah, absolutely, Your book is really about surviving the

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Speaker 4: things that aren't is obvious or that people never see, right,

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Speaker 4: so like illness, trauma, shame, and the system that genuinely

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Speaker 4: makes it so much harder. What made you both go,

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Speaker 4: all right, we want to write a book. We want

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Speaker 4: to tell this story because it's one thing to you know,

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Speaker 4: find each other and have that level of support. Why

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Speaker 4: did you want to take it to that next level

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Speaker 4: and share it with us?

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Speaker 3: Well, I had sought some support from Rosie, as she said,

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Speaker 3: And I went to Rosie and asked her for some

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Speaker 3: help with dealing with the mental health side of what

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Speaker 3: I was going through. You know, when you're experiencing the

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Speaker 3: stress and the trauma of being told you're really seriously ill,

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Speaker 3: and the fallout of surgery and treatment.

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Speaker 5: It takes a real toll on your mental well being.

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Speaker 3: And I wanted advice, I suppose because I knew Rosie

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Speaker 3: had been there before, and I think I almost wanted

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Speaker 3: to say, how do I stop this? How do I

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Speaker 3: stop my brain being so scared? And when I went

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Speaker 3: to visit Rosie, she was actually in psychiatric care at

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Speaker 3: the time, and we went and had a lunch across

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Speaker 3: the road, and when we were chatting, one of the

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Speaker 3: things that came out really quickly was that we actually

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Speaker 3: have the same our conditions have the same mortality rate,

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Speaker 3: so we actually had the same chance of not being

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Speaker 3: alive in five years or ten years.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And yet, yeah, the world doesn't respond to Rosie with

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Speaker 3: the same sort of urgency it does to me. You know,

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Speaker 3: when my friends and my family learned that I had

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Speaker 3: this brain tumor that had to be cut out of

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Speaker 3: my head, I was incredibly lucky. I had this overwhelming

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Speaker 3: outpouring of support, And I joked to Rosie at the

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Speaker 3: time that I had eleven Lasagnas in my freezer.

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Speaker 4: I was about to say, because you had so many lasagnas,

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Speaker 4: and have any lasagnas?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, oh, I've never got one,

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Speaker 1: but I don't have had lasagnas delivered exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and think because we're both storytellers, it was genuinely

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Speaker 3: at that moment that we were like, there's a book

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Speaker 3: in this, we should write about this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that very conversation. By the end we decided to

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Speaker 1: write a book.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Rosie, your story is deeply rooted in instability. How

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Speaker 4: did that shape the way that you've come to think

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Speaker 4: about money and then your place in the world. How

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Speaker 4: do you even begin to unlearn a lot of this

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Speaker 4: as an adult? It's very difficult, you know.

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Speaker 1: I did not get to a what I felt like

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Speaker 1: was a secure place financially until very very recently, and

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Speaker 1: I'm thirty eight years old. I mean so exciting. It

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Speaker 1: feels stable, well more stable than I've ever felt. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm still getting there, you know what I mean. But

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Speaker 1: I yeah, I grew up, like you said, with there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of poverty. The interesting thing about my parents, though,

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Speaker 1: was I say that they were both like black sheep

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Speaker 1: of each of their respective families. So my mom came

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Speaker 1: from quite a wealthy family. She went to private school

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Speaker 1: on the North Shore in Sydney, which is a very

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Speaker 1: snooty area. My dad came from like a pretty well

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Speaker 1: off family too, but they sort of then went their

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Speaker 1: own rogue directions and found each other. So I grew

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Speaker 1: up with predominantly my mom because my dad died when

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Speaker 1: I was quite young, with not a lot. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, there were years when we would need the

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Speaker 1: Smith family to deliver like a Christmas hamper to us

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Speaker 1: because we wouldn't have food at Christmas, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: There was often homelessness in the sense of you know,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people think homelessness means living

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Speaker 1: on the street, but I mean, like there were oftentimes

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Speaker 1: we didn't have anywhere to live. We'd be couch shopping

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Speaker 1: with our mum, living different places. But then we also would,

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Speaker 1: you know, say on like Easter or someone's birthday, go

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Speaker 1: to my grandparents' house or my uncle's house, my mum's brother,

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Speaker 1: and they were all very wealthy, so it was a

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Speaker 1: very odd experience knowing that there was something else. I

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Speaker 1: grew up in a lot of poverty and instability, but

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Speaker 1: I also had this sort of link to aut a

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Speaker 1: window at a window you something very different, like what possibility,

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Speaker 1: I guess, and that was a really odd thing to

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Speaker 1: deal with. I remember I tell this story. I think

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Speaker 1: it's funny, but a lot of people find it very

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Speaker 1: sad that my dad used to play us this VHS

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Speaker 1: tape of his brother had kids who were about ten

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Speaker 1: years older than us, and they had gone to Disneyland

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Speaker 1: and they had filmed like all this stuff while they're

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Speaker 1: at Disneyland. And my dad used to play this VHS

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Speaker 1: tape of his brother's kids at Disneyland to us, and

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Speaker 1: it was like our favorite movie, to watch the kids

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Speaker 1: at Disneyland. To us, that was as close as we

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Speaker 1: were going to get. And so it was. There was

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Speaker 1: a window there, which seemed sad, but I think to

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Speaker 1: me it provided like a sense of I know there's

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Speaker 1: something better than what I have here, Like I know

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Speaker 1: there is stability somewhere, Like we may move all the time,

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Speaker 1: Like I lived over in over one hundred houses as

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Speaker 1: a kid, I went to like at least twenty schools.

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Speaker 1: We moved a lot, We had instability, but I saw

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Speaker 1: that it was possible to feel secure and safe and

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Speaker 1: live in one place through people in my extended family.

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Speaker 1: So there was a jealousy, but there was also a

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Speaker 1: hope and a motivation. I guess. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I was about to ask, you know, when you're young,

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Speaker 4: you don't actually comprehend a lot of the times why

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Speaker 4: those things are happening, Like you don't understand what financial

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Speaker 4: security means, or you know whether your parents are working

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Speaker 4: really hard or not. You can just see that one

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Speaker 4: kid has something that you don't. Were you quite envious

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Speaker 4: of that? Because I can imagine myself, I feel like

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Speaker 4: I would be quite envious see and the kids at Disneyland.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was more the Disneyland thing was

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Speaker 1: more like I was envious of them having a lovely

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Speaker 1: family experience. I will say that with my mom, she

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Speaker 1: struggled being traditionally maternal. She left when I was about

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Speaker 1: three weeks old, and I didn't start living permanently with

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Speaker 1: her until I was almost four, and then on and

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Speaker 1: off after that until I got taken away. Permanently became

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Speaker 1: a water of state, and her way of showing love

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Speaker 1: was buying things, so we didn't often. I'll talk to

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Speaker 1: people who grew up much wealthier than me, I'd say

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Speaker 1: I would talk to Jam about all the toys and

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Speaker 1: cool stuff I had as a kid, and I probably

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Speaker 1: had a lot more cool stuff than you Di didd

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Speaker 1: probably because that's how my mom knew how to show love.

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Speaker 1: I remember being very very little, and she worked as

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Speaker 1: a sex worker when I was little to sort of

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Speaker 1: pay her way, and so on the visits we would

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Speaker 1: have with her, the exciting thing was that she would

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Speaker 1: bring you something, bring you like a polypocket or you know,

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Speaker 1: a doll or you know a Barbie or something like.

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Speaker 1: She showed that through gifts and spending, and I think

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Speaker 1: that definitely gave me some warped ideas about what money

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Speaker 1: is and how to manage it because she was never

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Speaker 1: great with it. There was never a sense in our

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Speaker 1: existence with her that it was something that you were

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Speaker 1: responsible with. If you had it, you spent it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, Jam. Before your diagnosis, I feel like your

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Speaker 4: life was picture perfect. Like you had this young family,

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Speaker 4: You were financially stable, you had a bang in Korea.

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Speaker 4: Like you. I would look at you and be like,

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Speaker 4: I want to be Jam when I grow.

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Speaker 1: Up, my grown up friend, my most accomplished grown up friend.

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Speaker 4: Right Like, I know she's laughing, but I literally was

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Speaker 4: like when I grow up.

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Speaker 1: One day, I'm going to be just like MILLERI oh,

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Speaker 1: she's three months old me and I say the same.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly when I grow up. When I grow up.

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Speaker 4: So from the outside outside, it seemed like you had

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Speaker 4: your stuff together, like your goals babe. But what did

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Speaker 4: that look like? Because you got your diagnosis and then

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Speaker 4: everything shifts. Your priority is shift, your financial stability shifts,

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Speaker 4: and I imagine you go from being Okay, I've built

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Speaker 4: my life and while you know you're not agreeing with

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Speaker 4: us that you know, oh it's picture perfect, like you

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Speaker 4: would have felt financially stable. Yeah, we have a great artner.

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Speaker 4: I'm so excited. I have you know, this great kid.

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Speaker 4: What happens when you get sent into a spin?

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Speaker 5: You know what?

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Speaker 3: Money was not on my mind, like when you get

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Speaker 3: given a diagnosis like that, money is the last thing

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Speaker 3: you think about, and it should be the last thing

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Speaker 3: you think about. But the reality is that it's going

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Speaker 3: to start playing a role pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 5: So for us, we were renting at the time, we

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Speaker 5: were house hunting. We were looking to buy our first home.

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Speaker 3: We've been looking at lots of houses and trying to

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Speaker 3: find the right thing I remember one of the conversations

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Speaker 3: we had was Okay, well, that's just we're not doing

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Speaker 3: that anytime soon because we can't deal with that. We've

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Speaker 3: we've got too much other stress. And then I had

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Speaker 3: private health insurance, which was fortunate, and it meant that

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Speaker 3: that gave me the ability to choose my surgeon, which

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Speaker 3: you know, if I'd been in the public system, I

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Speaker 3: might have ended up with the same surgeon anyway, It's possible.

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Speaker 3: He worked in the public and the private system, but

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Speaker 3: I got to choose him. And I remember him saying

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Speaker 3: to me, the other advantage was that he then got

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Speaker 3: to choose his team. Yeah, because it was the private system,

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Speaker 3: he could then say I want that nurse, and I

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Speaker 3: want that assistant surgeon. I want that person, and there's

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Speaker 3: huge benefit to that. I remember saying, is there any

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Speaker 3: other benefit? Like what else do I kind of get for.

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Speaker 4: My money paying this extraordinary amount health agents?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: He said to me, well, there are rumors that the

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Speaker 3: food is better, don't you were like, I don't think

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Speaker 3: it is.

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Speaker 5: I don't think it is.

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Speaker 3: A Look, if it was better, it wasn't much better.

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Speaker 3: And I had these sort of quite naive assumptions. I

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Speaker 3: think I thought Medicare took care of you when you

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Speaker 3: were sick, and so you didn't have to pay anything.

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Speaker 3: And I thought if you had private health insurance, then

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Speaker 3: anything extra you won't pay much at all, which I'll

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Speaker 3: look back on that. And I had no idea, right,

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Speaker 3: I had no idea.

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Speaker 4: Well, you don't know, and you just don't expect these things,

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Speaker 4: not at all to you, especially when you're young, not

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Speaker 4: when you're thirty one, Like the idea that this happened

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Speaker 4: to you when you're thirty one, and I'm sitting here

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Speaker 4: at thirty three, I just go, what like this to me?

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Speaker 4: It's so foreign, and I'm so grateful it's foreign. But

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Speaker 4: I also just go, life is so fragile, and it

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Speaker 4: can happen fast.

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Speaker 5: It happens really fast.

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Speaker 3: And the other bit I think you don't think about

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Speaker 3: so much is that you can't work right.

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Speaker 4: After you have insurance. I have to ask the financial aurance.

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Speaker 3: I absolutely did not have insurance that I don't think

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Speaker 3: I'd even crossed my mind at that age. And so

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Speaker 3: you know, I had eight weeks off work for recovery,

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Speaker 3: and even then I wasn't totally way more than that

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Speaker 3: ready to go back to work after brain surgery. After

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Speaker 3: eight works, I went back to work a bit, but

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Speaker 3: I certainly wasn't on my game and I would have

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Speaker 3: struggled to work full time. And then for me, the

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Speaker 3: TIMA grew back within a few months after that, and

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Speaker 3: then I needed sixteen weeks off for that recovery. And

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Speaker 3: once you get to that point and your partner's also

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Speaker 3: taking heaps of time off to look after you, and

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Speaker 3: then you've also got to think about childcare and all

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Speaker 3: the other bits and pieces, suddenly life starts to look

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Speaker 3: By that second surgery, we were a bit like, oh wow, okay,

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Speaker 3: this is not.

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Speaker 4: That house deposit. It doesn't look like house deposit.

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Speaker 3: And we used the emergency like we were people who

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Speaker 3: had an emergency bank account, right, But we used it

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Speaker 3: all up and then we had to go again.

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Speaker 4: So because you probably just thought and like most people do,

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Speaker 4: and I don't want to scare people when it comes

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Speaker 4: to the finances, but the reality is, when we create

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Speaker 4: our emergency funds, we're thinking, okay, like, what's like three

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Speaker 4: months of our expenses? What does that look like. We're

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Speaker 4: not talking about the car parking at hospital, We're not

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Speaker 4: talking about the late night uber eats and all of

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Speaker 4: the takeaway food that we need because we're staying at hospital.

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Speaker 4: Like it goes so quickly, and like this is my

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Speaker 4: reminder to everybody out there that if you haven't thought

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Speaker 4: about getting your personal insurances together, please do, please do asap.

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Speaker 4: Like that is one thing that I am wildly passionate

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Speaker 4: about because sadly, as an ex financial advisor, I've seen

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Speaker 4: it too many times, and it's always the people that say,

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Speaker 4: I never thought this would happen to me.

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Speaker 5: And also once you're on the other side, like me,

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Speaker 5: you can't get it.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, your one's ensuring me now, right, yeap, No,

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Speaker 3: you're band, so my husband's very well insured, but you

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Speaker 3: know that's not an option for me.

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Speaker 4: No. No. Both of you described these quite dramatic moments

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Speaker 4: where your health completely collapsed, But it wasn't ever just physical.

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Speaker 4: I think people just assume when you say my health collapsed,

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Speaker 4: you just assume it's some dramatic flop to the floor.

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Speaker 4: But what did it cost to keep functioning professionally and

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Speaker 4: financially when your world's are literally falling apart?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know it has at times cost me

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Speaker 1: almost everything. Really, I was never really great with money

359
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Speaker 1: because I wasn't you know, wasn't raised. You were taught

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Speaker 1: how to be yet how to be.

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Speaker 5: I remember when we used to work together.

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Speaker 1: Oh my years again, know what you're.

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Speaker 3: I remember explaining to Rosie how banks work, Yeah, because

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Speaker 3: she didn't understand need friend, you need that person.

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Speaker 1: It blew my mind when Jamila explained to me that

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Speaker 1: there is not a physical dollar for every dollar that

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Speaker 1: there is, like I.

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Speaker 4: Thought you could it was all there, we can all

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Speaker 4: you thought the bank had a shoe box with your money?

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Speaker 1: Yes, And then I had this like existential crisis where

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Speaker 1: I was like, so money is just a concept? What?

372
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Speaker 1: Like I couldn't. It blew my mind. So that is

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Speaker 1: literally where I was coming from, not even understanding that.

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Speaker 4: But you know how many people don't. Yeah, Like I

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Speaker 4: don't want you to go oh, I didn't even get that.

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Speaker 4: What do you mean?

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Speaker 5: Who was going to.

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Speaker 4: Teach you that? Rosie?

379
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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I had no Yeah, jam did I

380
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Speaker 1: mean when I got my first book advance, which was

381
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 1: like quite a decent chunk of money, I ended up

382
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Speaker 1: getting into a huge amount of tax problems because I

383
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Speaker 1: didn't realize I had to pay tax on that. I

384
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Speaker 1: just was like, hooray, I have money, and I didn't

385
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Speaker 1: anything extravagant. I just remember feeling like it's nice to

386
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Speaker 1: not have to worry. I remember my fridge broke and

387
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Speaker 1: I felt so amazing. It was like quite a profound

388
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,919
Speaker 1: day in my life when my fridge broke and I

389
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 1: could just buy a fridge and I didn't have to

390
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,960
Speaker 1: think about it. It was I wasn't buying anything crazy,

391
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:21,760
Speaker 1: but I just yeah, I didn't understand tax and I

392
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Speaker 1: so I for like the first decade of working as

393
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Speaker 1: a professional writer had a lot of financial issues, and

394
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Speaker 1: it was probably twenty twenty two where I did have it,

395
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Speaker 1: like quite a bit of money saved, Like I was

396
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Speaker 1: doing okay work wise, but mentally I had a really

397
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Speaker 1: bad relapse and I worked a little on and off,

398
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Speaker 1: but I mostly didn't work. From i'd say, for about

399
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Speaker 1: eighteen months over twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three,

400
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,399
Speaker 1: I completely ran out of money, like I got to

401
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 1: like ground zero. I had to move apartments once in

402
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,280
Speaker 1: that time, and Jamila lent me money to pay my

403
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,640
Speaker 1: bond for my apartment because I just I literally had

404
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 1: nothing saved and I got really unwell and I couldn't work.

405
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,360
Speaker 1: It was a really scary time because when you are

406
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,480
Speaker 1: struggling with your health and then the money stuff is

407
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,199
Speaker 1: added to it, like it really does make you feel like,

408
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 1: you know what, if I wasn't already getting swallowed up,

409
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 1: this is going to be the.

410
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 4: Thing kicks down? Yeah exactly, I mean you can kick

411
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Speaker 4: them to do how do I do this?

412
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 1: Like? I the one thing I've always made sure I

413
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 1: pay and sometimes over my rent. I have paid for

414
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,919
Speaker 1: my private health insurance because in my early twenties I

415
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 1: needed to be hospitalized for my PTSD and I didn't

416
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Speaker 1: have insurance. I went to a public hospital and unfortunately

417
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:49,159
Speaker 1: in patient care in public psychiatric care is pretty grim.

418
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Speaker 1: And I after that started paying a very high premium

419
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Speaker 1: health insurance because health insurance that covers inpatient private psychiatric as.

420
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Speaker 4: You need you need actually on bronze.

421
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have paid for that ever since. That's been

422
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 1: my one negotiable thing that I pay for because I

423
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Speaker 1: never wanted to have to go to a public place again.

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Speaker 1: And I have used it, like there's been about four

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Speaker 1: times that I've needed private psychiatric care since I started

426
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Speaker 1: paying for that. But yeah, across twenty twenty two twenty

427
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Speaker 1: three when I wasn't working and literally ran out of money.

428
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Speaker 1: The one thing I sort of made sure I paid

429
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,159
Speaker 1: for was my private health insurance, and everything else was

430
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: day by day.

431
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Speaker 4: And you know what, I totally get that, Yeah, because

432
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 4: that is in line with your values and what you're like.

433
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 4: I can't go back there because I'm assuming that would

434
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Speaker 4: have impacted you even more than going to impatient care privately.

435
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 4: I just can't imagine. All right, let's go to a

436
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 4: really quick break, because on the flip side, I want

437
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,479
Speaker 4: to talk more about the lasagnas that we mentioned. I

438
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 4: also want to talk about inequality and why Australia support

439
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 4: systems so often all the people who need it the most.

440
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 4: Plus how do you actually prepare for the kind of

441
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 4: life crisis no one sees coming. That's all after the break,

442
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 4: all right, we are back, and I wanted to talk

443
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 4: about something that actually stuck with me out of the book,

444
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 4: and you guys have already mentioned it, and that's lasagna.

445
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 4: I just feel like that's a big thing. It's a

446
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 4: big thing, do you know what. I love a good lasagna,

447
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 4: And with so many in your freezer, you could have

448
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 4: done a whole taste testing Josh my husband.

449
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 5: My husband had like Tali's ranking.

450
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 4: Rank them like, oh yep, Sue's one. That's pretty good.

451
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 3: You've got scores for like cheesiness and you know, death

452
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 3: of Tomato and the sauce.

453
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 4: Yeh see. I think that's important. But Jam, at the

454
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 4: end of the day, for those of you who haven't

455
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 4: read the book, you had a plethora of lasagners, and

456
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 4: Rosie you wrote about never having one lasagna in your fridge.

457
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 4: What do you think that says about visible versus invisible illnesses?

458
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's no secret that there is

459
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: a lot of prejudice in society when it comes to

460
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 1: how we viewed mental health versus physical health. I think

461
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: I even have, even people with mental health issues hold

462
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: those prejudices. I mean, there have been times that I've

463
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 1: even said to myself, like come on, Rosie again, like

464
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: pull yourself out of this this time, just get it together,

465
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: which I don't think Jamila would ever have said to

466
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: her brain show, like come on, jam just just shrink that,

467
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 1: just get you know, get rid of that, take care

468
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: of jam. So even I have it, I understand, but

469
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 1: we tend to not take this stuff as seriously. And

470
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 1: I think at the end of the day, the bottom

471
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: line is it's because a lot of people think it

472
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: is a choice. Maybe not on the surface, maybe they

473
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: don't say that out loud, but deep down, I think

474
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: a lot of people do think that mental health stuff

475
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: is a choice because if it's to do with you know,

476
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: your emotions, your mental health, the way you think, all

477
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: of that kind of thing, if it's not something physical,

478
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 1: then surely you should just be able to fix it.

479
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: I think that's why. I mean, really, it's kind of

480
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: I've been asked this question a few times and I've

481
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: been thinking, oh, should I be giving a more complex

482
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: answer than that, But no, I just I think that's it.

483
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: I think that's the answer.

484
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 4: I have seen that time and time again. Like my

485
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 4: background is in psychology, so like I fully comprehend this,

486
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 4: but even I who have been through you know, diagnosis,

487
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 4: I just look at it and I go. The one

488
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,719
Speaker 4: thing that helped me really understand it was like it

489
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 4: was chemical. I was like, okay, like yours might be physical,

490
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 4: but mine was chemical. And it's not an emotional thing

491
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 4: you can just get over. Like I literally don't have

492
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 4: enough of a chemical and I can't xyz and so

493
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 4: I feel like for me that helped, and there's nothing

494
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 4: that's going to help everybody. But it just it frustrates

495
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 4: me beyond belief that people don't take mental health seriously,

496
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 4: Like it impacts everything. It impacts your financial wellbeing, your

497
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 4: emotional wellbeing, it impacts your relationships, It impacts your ability

498
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 4: to create the career you want to create, whether you

499
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 4: have children or not. Like it is one of the

500
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 4: most tactful things that you can go through, but people

501
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 4: still don't put a liz on you in your freezer.

502
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 4: What's that about?

503
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: I mean all those things that you just said. I

504
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: put off having kids my whole like adult life because

505
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: I remembered what it was like growing up with my mother.

506
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: I remember what it was like growing up with someone

507
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: who had kids before she was able to or should

508
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: have mentally, financially, in all those ways. My older sister,

509
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 1: yann and then had her first kid when she was seventeen,

510
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: and I saw how much that affected her life. So

511
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: I always said, like, I won't. I remember saying as

512
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: a little kid, like I'm not going to have kids

513
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: until I'm at least thirty five. Like for me, that

514
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: was this age in my brain that it's.

515
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 5: Grown up age.

516
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you're paying proper taxes thirty fever right, like.

517
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: I thought I would be, but like probably wasn't working

518
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: that much then. But like I yeah, there was a

519
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: lot of things that I put off because I knew

520
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: I ninety five ninety six percent, ninety seven percent of

521
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: my energy is going to just trying to keep this

522
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 1: mental health stuff and check. I didn't have the time,

523
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: the resources, the energy to do a lot of the

524
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: things I wanted to do. I mean, essentially, you live

525
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 1: a life of surviving and not thriving. Yeah, that's where

526
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: you land.

527
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, Jam, you've experienced both sides of this, first in

528
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 4: being an advocate but then also navigating the Australian healthcare

529
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 4: system as a patient. When it comes to Australia as

530
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 4: a country, Why do you think we are still getting

531
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 4: it so wrong?

532
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Australia has I think, unquestionably one of the

533
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 3: best healthcare systems in the world in terms of our

534
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 3: commitment to universal health care. The fact that if you

535
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 3: show up at a hospital, as you know, Prime Minister

536
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 3: is always telling us you show them your Medicare card

537
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: before anyone asks for your credit card.

538
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 5: And I don't want to take away from that.

539
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 4: That is remarkable one hundred percent.

540
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 3: But Australia built a healthcare system and a hospital system

541
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 3: to treat people with physical ill health, and then when

542
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 3: we kind of figured out mental illness was a thing,

543
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 3: we just sort of shoved it in the back cor Now, yeah,

544
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 3: we sort of tacked this thing on, but we built

545
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 3: it in the same model as the first one, and

546
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 3: we sort of tacked it on the side. But we're

547
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 3: dealing with a completely different set of challenges, a completely

548
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 3: different set of treatments, and so it doesn't.

549
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 5: Work that way.

550
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 3: You can't treat schizophrenia the way you treat cancer, right,

551
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 3: you're dealing with things in.

552
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 4: A complete motto Medicare card.

553
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 3: No, it doesn't make sense. And so what we've done

554
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 3: is we've sort of built two systems at the same

555
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 3: time and they're very much unequal. And don't get me wrong,

556
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 3: there are inequalities that exist within the sort of physical

557
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 3: healthcare system as well, but the way they work is

558
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 3: very unequal. And so what we do is we tend

559
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 3: to interact with people who have mental health challenges at

560
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 3: two levels. The first is and it's great that this exists,

561
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 3: that you can get the medicare rebate for a series

562
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: of consultations with a psychologists. Once you've seen your GP

563
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 3: and been approved for a mental health plan, that's great

564
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 3: if you're someone who needs more than that, and that's

565
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 3: a lot of people.

566
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 4: So often in our community, we're like, great, it's ten

567
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 4: right now, Well now now what right?

568
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 5: What happens if you need fifty? What happens if you

569
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,120
Speaker 5: need more than fifty?

570
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 3: And then at the other end of the spectrum, we're

571
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 3: talking about people who reach the point of showing up

572
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 3: an emergency at a public hospital because their mental ill

573
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 3: health has become so serious and they are in crisis,

574
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 3: and we will intervene there, usually for a very brief period,

575
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 3: you know, twenty four hours, forty eight hours, often where

576
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 3: it's like, right, have we got you to a point

577
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 3: where we think you're not a danger to yourself?

578
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 5: Okay, thank you very much, you can go home.

579
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 3: So there are sort of two points of intervention in

580
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: the public system, and that there's just so much space

581
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,959
Speaker 3: in between, not to mention the fact that at that

582
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 3: acute crisis end, that's not sufficient.

583
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 4: No, And that's what's heartbreaking when it comes to I

584
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 4: guess the financial side of that people in crisis can't

585
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 4: think about finances at the same time as trying to

586
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 4: manage their crisis. How do we better support people going

587
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 4: through these things financially, you.

588
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 5: Know, as part of Broken Brains.

589
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 3: We both shared our stories, but we also talked to

590
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: heaps of different experts and other people with lived expertise,

591
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 3: and we spoke to Professor Kate Drummond, who is the

592
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 3: head of neurosurgery at Royal Melbourne Hospital. Bizarrely spoke to

593
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: her many years ago and she's now my neurosurgeon, which

594
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 3: is just weird, but at the time I'd never met

595
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 3: her before and she said so many things that stuck

596
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 3: with me about how our health system operates. But I

597
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 3: asked her if she had a magic wand what's the

598
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 3: one thing she'd change. She said, she would pick up

599
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 3: all the money that we spend on interventions in the

600
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 3: final couple of weeks of someone's life to prolong life

601
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 3: at the very very end, and she would pick that

602
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 3: up and she'd give it to people in their late

603
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 3: teens and twenties to intervene on mental ill health. Because

604
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 3: she said, if your aim is to have people live longer,

605
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 3: healthier lives, you would have so much more impact than

606
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 3: you would prolonging the life of someone who's in their

607
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 3: nineties by another month, probably prolonging that life in a

608
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 3: way that wouldn't be very comfortable or enjoyable. Now, that

609
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 3: is really confronting, right, Like I can think about that

610
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 3: at as hard at a policy level, and I feel

611
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 3: o with it. But then you say, okay, well what

612
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 3: about your grandma? And I'd be like, we'll hold on

613
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 3: a second part.

614
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 4: We're not talking about her, we're talking about policy. Jam.

615
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so that's hard to wrap our heads around,

616
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 3: I think. But our purpose should not be an l

617
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 3: system for people to live forever. That's not going to work.

618
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 3: We have not yet pulled that up right. So it

619
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 3: should be to support people to have a wonderful life.

620
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: And we're possible to extend that life. But that does

621
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 3: become a point where it's like, what are we doing

622
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 3: and what are we spending and what are we putting

623
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,719
Speaker 3: someone through for one more week or two more weeks

624
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 3: when we could put that money as a country into

625
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 3: making sure that we get quality of life and quantity

626
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 3: of life for people who are in their twenties and thirties.

627
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 3: That mean that they get to be that eighty or

628
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 3: ninety year old.

629
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

630
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 4: Absolutely. Now I'm obviously so excited for my community to

631
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 4: pick up this episode and learn more about broken brains.

632
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 4: But I'm also just so excited that the possibility that

633
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 4: people who are currently ill and struggling financially see this

634
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 4: episode and go, oh my goodness, Like I didn't know

635
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 4: something like this was happening. I didn't realize conversations were,

636
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 4: you know, happening in this space. And I'm hoping that

637
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 4: you know, if you haven't met us before, welcome, But

638
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 4: what would your one piece of advice to people who

639
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 4: are currently going through illness and also struggling financially, what

640
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 4: would your one piece of advice from both of you be?

641
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 5: I'm happy to go first on that one.

642
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 3: I if you are like me and you're going through

643
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 3: a physical health challenge, your mental health is as non

644
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: negotiable as Rosy's is. You know, when Rosie was going

645
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 3: through some of the toughest times in her life, she

646
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 3: still put the money into mental health care. It took

647
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 3: me two years before one of my doctors said to me,

648
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 3: are you getting any support now? I was because my

649
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 3: husband muched me off to a psychologist the morning after

650
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 3: I was diagnosed, so I was getting great support.

651
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 5: But the impact on your.

652
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 3: Health and your wellbeing and your ability to go back

653
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: to work and become someone who can earn money again,

654
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 3: it will be the mental as much.

655
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 5: As the physical that pushes you.

656
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 3: The second thing I would say is that go into

657
00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 3: the system knowing that even within the physical health system

658
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 3: we treat diseases. There is a hierarchy of how we

659
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 3: support different conditions and diseases, and a lot of that

660
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 3: actually has to do with the charitable sector as well,

661
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 3: because some always had to talk about this one. Some

662
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 3: diseases are more attractive than others.

663
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 5: Right.

664
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: We have raised more money in this country to support

665
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: people who are going through breast cancer treatment and to

666
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 3: ensure that treatment is not only quality, and we have

667
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 3: reduced mortality rates and we have improved how we support

668
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 3: people psychologically through that process.

669
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 5: And I do not begrudge a center of that.

670
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 3: It is extraordinary what this country has done, and a

671
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 3: lot of that is because of the McGrath Foundation and others.

672
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 3: But it's really interesting. The McGrath Foundation just this year

673
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 3: announced that they are now moving their targets to support

674
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 3: people with other kinds of cancers too, because there are

675
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 3: the sexy cancers and the ones that we get excited about,

676
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 3: and the ones that we feel good about and we

677
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,479
Speaker 3: want to talk about. We don't talk about prostate cancer,

678
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 3: we don't talk about anal cancer.

679
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 5: We don't talk about stuff that makes people go, oh god,

680
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 5: I don't know about that one. Right, No pooh colored ribbons.

681
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 3: There's no poo colored ribbons, is what one of the

682
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 3: mark as we speak to in our book says. And

683
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 3: she was a woman who had colorectal cancer. She's like,

684
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 3: there's no poor colored ribbon. Right, That's not something we

685
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 3: go and party about. So going in with your eyes

686
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 3: wide open around what support is available to you or not.

687
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: I'm someone who lives with rare diseases. Where it will

688
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 3: hit is when you get to the medicine part. Because

689
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 3: our medicines aren't on the PBS, or if they exist

690
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 3: and we can use someone else's medicines, we don't get

691
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 3: it on the PBS because we're not using it for

692
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 3: the set purpose. Right, So you do have to prepare

693
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 3: and you do have to save accordingly. I think I'm

694
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 3: sorry I'm giving so much advice I'm supposed to give to one.

695
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 3: My other one is one that I am struggling to

696
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 3: take myself, but I'm really trying to. Which is that

697
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: my partner said really early on, spending money on your

698
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 3: health is non negotiable. And that meant not just the

699
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 3: drugs that keep me alive, but the drugs that keep

700
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 3: me well. And I have medicines that there have been

701
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: times they're off the PBS that are costing us three

702
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 3: four thousand dollars a month, right, Like there's big money.

703
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: And the number of times they don't technically keep me alive,

704
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 3: they keep me well, and they're a big part of

705
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 3: my quality of life, but I don't need I'm not

706
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 3: going to die tomorrow without them.

707
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 5: And the number of times I've.

708
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 3: Gone, oh, we don't maybe just not this month, or

709
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 3: like we really need to be doing this. And I

710
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 3: look at my son and I look at my husband,

711
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 3: and he has been adamant, like, this is not negotiable.

712
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 3: If this makes you feel better, we buy it.

713
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: Right.

714
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 3: I felt so much guilt about that, And we're in

715
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 3: a very fortunate position where we're able to make that

716
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 3: choice rather than having no choice. And I know people

717
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 3: with the same tumor as me who cut tablets in

718
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 3: half and take them every second day and do all

719
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 3: sorts of stuff because they can't afford to do it properly.

720
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: But I am just learning to let go of some

721
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 3: of that guilt around what my family doesn't have because

722
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 3: of my disease and the impacts of my disabilities. But

723
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 3: I think I'm finally getting there and sort of forgiving

724
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 3: myself and recognizing that it's better for them to have me.

725
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 5: It's better to have a wife and a mum.

726
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 4: That I well wife and well.

727
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 5: Doing well and can be the best person you can be.

728
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

729
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 4: No, I think that that's so important, and it honestly

730
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 4: makes me feel Like when you said and I still

731
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 4: carry so much, girl, I was like, oh, like that

732
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 4: breaks me because it's just your son has who he

733
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 4: needs and you were able to afford that, And like, yeah,

734
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 4: you might not have as much stuff, but stuff doesn't

735
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 4: go with you, Like that's not the stuff that matters. Yeah, Rosie,

736
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 4: what would your advice be?

737
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: You know that question is trickier for me to answer

738
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: than I think it is for Jamila. I write in

739
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: the book about the fact that I've been seeing a

740
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: child psychiatrist who specializes in trauma since I was seventeen,

741
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: I've been seen the same one, so I'm probably his

742
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,439
Speaker 1: oldest patient by this mind. But I started seeing him

743
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: because at the time, my uncle had taken custody of

744
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: me and he was paying for it. When my uncle

745
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: stopped paying for it, this particular psychiatrist boll builled me

746
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: without any gap, so it was essentially free for me

747
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: to see him, and he has been very generous with

748
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: me at times over the last twenty years. I pay

749
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: when I can afford it, and other times, like you know,

750
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: back in twenty twenty two, when I was really struggling,

751
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 1: he went back to bulk billing me. That is, that's

752
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: a unicorn psychiatrist. Like I understand how lucky I am

753
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: that he has been able to do that for me,

754
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: because I look at my sisters who've not had access

755
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: to that kind of trauma treatment, who have just only

756
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: when the ten sessions a year became available, which hasn't

757
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: been throughout since we've been unwell. They haven't had that,

758
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: and I can see how much further in my mental

759
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: health I am than them because of that. So I

760
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: know how lucky I am, and at the same time,

761
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: I think how unfair that I had to be lucky

762
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:54,919
Speaker 1: to get treatment that I needed. So when people come

763
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: to me for advice about what to do when you're unwell,

764
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: particularly financially in the mental health sphere, I don't quite

765
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: know what to say. I say, take advantage of what

766
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: is offered to you, get the ten sessions, get more

767
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 1: if you can, and also try and have someone advocate

768
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: for you, because when you are mentally in that really

769
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: dark place, like you said, it's hard to you know,

770
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: bills all that kind of stuff. You can barely function,

771
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: Like there are type you can't make a phone call,

772
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 1: let alone handle life admin. There have been times since

773
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: Jamila and I've been friends for over ten years now,

774
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: and twice in that ten years, I've had a mental

775
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: health relapse that's been pretty bad, and she has stepped

776
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: in to advocate for me. Just as someone who makes

777
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: phone calls helps like organize, like calling around hospitals to

778
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: see if there's a place open or whatever, like, it

779
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: really helps to have someone step in and advocate for

780
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: you and look for programs because there are resources out there,

781
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: particularly for trauma. I know that I've done, you know

782
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: this essentially psychotherapy with my therapist since i've been with him,

783
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 1: But there are we now know in the last few years,

784
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: you know, the very famous book by Besill Vanderkoch, like

785
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: The Body Keeps the Score. We're understanding more and more,

786
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: particularly over the last decade, that so much of it

787
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: is to do with the body and not just the brain.

788
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: That has been something that financially, I've not really been

789
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: able to explore until the last couple of years treatment

790
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: for that kind of thing. Someone at a book event

791
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: for us the other night came up to me and said,

792
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: I work in the trauma space, particularly childhood trauma, and

793
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: you should be telling your readers and listeners and everything

794
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: that EMDR is now available for free for people to

795
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: access through certain programs if they're dealing with childhood trauma.

796
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 1: So I think it's just essentially like the snowball effect

797
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: of It's like when Jamila started interviewing people for the book,

798
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: and she would talk to someone who would recommend someone

799
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: who would recommend someone, and before you knew it, you'd

800
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: interviewed over two hundred people. I think it's the same

801
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 1: with this kind of thing, Like your psychiatrist may recommend

802
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 1: talking to someone who may know of a program, and

803
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: they may know of something else, and it's just taking

804
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: whatever support you can get, because financially it's really hard

805
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,760
Speaker 1: in this country to treat mental health. You're not going

806
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 1: to just walk into a doctor's office or a hospital

807
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: and get what you need easily. So really take the

808
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: help from anyone who was offering it to you, and

809
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: listen to people's advice. And that's sort of the best

810
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: advice I can offer.

811
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 3: It.

812
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: It's hard on this side of things.

813
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 4: I feel like the one thing that hasn't been mentioned

814
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 4: is just giving yourself a lot more kindness as well.

815
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 4: I think that a lot of the time, people in

816
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 4: similar situations, they'll say I'm so bad at this, or

817
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 4: I suck at that, or like you really just compare

818
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 4: yourself to other people in similar situations. You might go, oh,

819
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 4: but she's handling it's so much better. But you don't

820
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 4: see these things. You don't get to see under the

821
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 4: covers of people's financial circumstances. And like, you know, jam

822
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 4: was talking about her beautiful husband and the support that

823
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 4: she had, and knowing that he was probably working throughout

824
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 4: that and you had your house depositing some emergency savings.

825
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 4: We didn't know that until she shared that we could

826
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 4: have assumed that she'd come from a really wealthy family

827
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 4: or something along those lines, or we could have on

828
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 4: the flips, I'd been like, not aware of the astronomical

829
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 4: amount of debt she needed to go into. So everybody's

830
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 4: journey is so different. And I think that because of

831
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 4: this beautiful community we have in sees on the money,

832
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 4: people are so open with their journeys, especially when they're

833
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 4: unwell and when they're going through financial crisis, that you

834
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 4: just don't know what you don't know. And I think

835
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 4: you are so harsh on yourselves. You're like, oh, well,

836
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 4: I can't afford that, or I shouldn't do this, or

837
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 4: I shouldn't like I think you just need to wipe

838
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 4: all of the expectation off and just go I'm doing

839
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 4: the best that I can.

840
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: I'm really glad you just said that, because, yeah, that's

841
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: really important to point out. I know that I have

842
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: been filled with an enormous amount of shame getting to

843
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: this age where I'm nearly forty. Like I turned thirty

844
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 1: nine this year. I'm an eighty six baby. And when

845
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: I was little, like I said, I had these wealthier

846
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 1: family members that I would look to and I would

847
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: always say like I'm going to be like them, Like

848
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be like my crazy parents. Like

849
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: when I grew up, I remember I used to say,

850
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to be a doctor like my uncle because

851
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: my mum told me once he made five thousand dollars

852
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: a week, and I was like that, I'm going to

853
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: be a doctor because of that, like I would. I

854
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 1: really thought I would be in a very different position

855
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 1: by now, And I often feel an enormous amount of

856
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 1: shame and disappointment that, you know, I thought I would

857
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: be married by now. I thought I would have kids.

858
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: I thought i'd own a house. I thought I would

859
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: have built the life for myself that I always wanted

860
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: by this stage, by much earlier than this. And there

861
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: are times that really really makes me feel, just to

862
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: put it bluntly, pretty shit about myself. It really does.

863
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: And what has helped a lot is, like you said,

864
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: learning to have some compassion for myself over it, learning

865
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: to try and be bit gentler with myself and more

866
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: forgiving and say, like, you know, Rosie, you were barely

867
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 1: keeping your head above water. Like all I was able

868
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: to focus on was just getting through the day, saving

869
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: for a house, marriage, kids, building a stable life. It

870
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: really sucks that it's not really starting for me until

871
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: the last couple of years. But it's not my fault,

872
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: Like I did the best I could, and so I

873
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: have to be gentler with myself about it. It is hard, though,

874
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: it's really hard. You're filled with a lot of shame

875
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: about this kind of thing. But yeah, I'm really glad

876
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 1: you pointed that out because having self compassion is hugely important.

877
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: It's helped me a lot, even though it's not easy

878
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: to do.

879
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 4: No, I'm glad that you resonate with that because I

880
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,280
Speaker 4: just I feel like I want to scoop our community

881
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 4: up sometimes and be like you are doing so well,

882
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 4: Like look at the cards that were dealt to you,

883
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 4: and what could have happened the place you could have

884
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 4: been in, and look how hard you fought to be here.

885
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 4: You're on a podcast advocating for those people who can't

886
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 4: speak up for them else. There are people who are

887
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 4: going to listen to this and be like, holy moly,

888
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 4: Like that's exactly what I needed to hear at the moment,

889
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 4: And you're being that person that baby you needed, and

890
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 4: I just go, that's the ultimate outcome, right, Like I

891
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 4: know that your stereotypical family and your house and your

892
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 4: savings account didn't tick the box. But like you've become

893
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 4: the woman that baby you needed, and that is incredible,

894
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 4: Like that is the coolest thing in the entire world.

895
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: So I wrote the book. I guess that's really nice.

896
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 4: So unfortunately we don't have a lot of time left. Guys,

897
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 4: you have been so generous and so kind for sharing

898
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 4: this story with me, with my community. I'm just I'm

899
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 4: beyond grateful for this. This conversation has been really thoughtful,

900
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 4: really generous, really open, and I just I hope that

901
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 4: we can start seeing mental and physical illness on the

902
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 4: same page. I hope that there's more conversation in the

903
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,720
Speaker 4: next four years about getting us on the same page.

904
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 4: And I just think that this has been a long

905
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 4: time coming and it won't be the last time we

906
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 4: talk about this. So, guys, if you have loved talking

907
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 4: to jam and to Rosie, they have a beautiful book

908
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 4: called Broken Brains. It is real, it is raw, it

909
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 4: is honest, is everything you need to have a conversation

910
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,720
Speaker 4: around grief, around resilience and humor. Like it is funny

911
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 4: we keep trying.

912
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 1: To tell people it's not heavy.

913
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 4: I feel like I've made it sounds heavy at the stuff,

914
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 4: you're really funny too, Like I'll give you that, and

915
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 4: it's all at once and it is beautiful. And if

916
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 4: you're listening and you haven't grabbed a copy yet, I

917
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 4: definitely recommend it. But I'm going to pop all of

918
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 4: the information for that in the show notes so that

919
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 4: you can pick up a copy and pour over it

920
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 4: in the same way that I absolutely did. And I

921
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 4: guess one of the things I took from that was like,

922
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 4: I need to make a whole lot more Lasagnias, Like

923
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 4: I've got a lot of it.

924
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:50,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, jam has enough.

925
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 4: Yes, Yeah, exactly, And we're makings and my beautiful she's

926
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 4: on the money community. I know that sometimes life can

927
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 4: throw things at you that no budget or plan could

928
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 4: ever prepare for. And if you are in that space

929
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 4: right now, just know that it's okay to focus on

930
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 4: just getting through, not getting ahead. I want you to

931
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 4: take your health, your safety, and your stability first. It

932
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 4: always is going to come first, because the rest can wait,

933
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 4: and you are not behind for doing what you need

934
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 4: to do to survive. If you have loved this episode,

935
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 4: please share it with somebody who needs to hear it,

936
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 4: especially if they're going through something tough right now, and

937
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 4: make sure that you're following She's on the Money so

938
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 4: that you never miss another chat like this one. Guys,

939
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 4: Thanks Sharing Tak, Thank you.

940
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: Did buy shared on.

941
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 6: She's on the Money is general in nature and does

942
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 6: not consider your individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists

943
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 6: purely for educational purposes and should not be relied upon

944
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 6: to make an investment or financial decision. If you do

945
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 6: choose to buy a financial product, read.

946
00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:00,240
Speaker 4: The PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored towards

947
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 4: your needs.

948
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 6: Victoria Divine and Sheese on the Money are authorized representatives

949
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 6: of Money sherper P t y lt D A b

950
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 6: N three two one six four nine two seven seven

951
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,240
Speaker 4: Zero eight afs L four five one two eight nine