1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Now we just caught up with the nursing our Midwifree 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Union's caf Hatcher to talk about the fact that the 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: code yellow has now been called across the Darwin and 4 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: Palmerston Hospital. Joining me on the line right now is 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: doctor John's Orbis, who is indeed from the Australian Medical Association. 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: He's the NT president. Good morning to you, doctors Orbis. 7 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 2: Morning Katie, morning for listeners. How are you? 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: Yeah? Really good? Good to have you on the show. 9 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you and I have spoken on numerous occasions 10 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: in recent weeks about access block and about the overcrowding 11 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: within the emergency department there and more broadly across both 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: of our hospitals up here in the top end. But 13 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: doctors Orbis, they finally called a code yellow yesterday. Were 14 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: they bowing to that pressure? 15 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we've been sort of making these indications 16 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 2: for about a week now and going back, as I've 17 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: said on this show before, the hospital is full, remains ful, 18 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 2: is going to continue being full. The fact that we've 19 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: now called co yellow is welcomed and obviously we're very 20 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 2: happy that that's the direction they've taken. This is a 21 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: short term circuit breaker. Though, there's two things we need 22 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: to focus on. One is the now and one is 23 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 2: what's coming. We've got an underresourced hell system and we 24 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: really aren't getting our fair share of federal pie at 25 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 2: the moment. 26 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing, right, Like the code yellow 27 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: obviously helps short term, but it really doesn't sort out 28 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: the issues that we've got with overcrowding, does it. 29 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 2: No, it kicks the can down the road. So it 30 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: gives us a little bit of capacity now just to 31 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: provide what we need to do immediately. But everything that 32 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: we're not doing routinely now is just a magnified problem 33 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 2: down the track. Every operation that gets canceled, every appointment 34 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: that gets canceled. You know, that doesn't the problem is 35 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 2: not fixed, and it's going to get worse between now 36 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 2: and when we do eventually catch up. 37 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: So in terms of the short term, what does it mean? 38 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: I mean you just sort of touched on and I 39 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: know Cather Hain said it as well, that it means 40 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: that things like elective surgeries get postponed, which isn't ideal 41 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: if you're on the wait list. However, it does mean 42 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: that then staff are able to sort of, you know, 43 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: deal with the level of patients I suppose that they've 44 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,279 Speaker 1: got in the hospital right now. 45 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and most importantly, it's a whole of health declaration 46 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 2: that there is an immediate problem here at Royal Darwin. 47 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: And so that just makes sure that every lever, every button, 48 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 2: every system is pulling in the same direction. It helps 49 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 2: move patients back to community, back to regional centers where 50 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: if that's where they've come from. It helps to make 51 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 2: sure that the resources are being prioritized as best they 52 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 2: can be. Ultimately, the resources are still not enough to 53 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: deliver the care that we need to in the NT 54 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 2: in the long term, but for now it helps as 55 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 2: a circuit breaker. 56 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: Dot Di'sorbis Cathatcher had told us, you know these eighteen 57 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: cubicles that are double bunked at the moment, around thirty 58 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: six patients in those eighteen cubicles. But then when you 59 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: look at you know, at patients that need to go 60 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: up onto the wards. How is that sort of tracking 61 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: a law? 62 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the reason the emergency department is so full 63 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: is for that exact reason the wards are full. They're 64 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 2: remainful the emergency department double bunking overcrowning. It's just the 65 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 2: symptom you know, the emergency Department is not the problem here. 66 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: We've got half the number of age air beds per 67 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 2: capita in Australia than any other jurisdiction, so are being 68 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: shortchanged massively there for what is a federal responsibility. We've 69 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: now had two federal governments promise fifty to sixty million 70 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 2: dollars for a new age care facility and we don't 71 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 2: even have a site, let alone the money. So you 72 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 2: know all the net effect of all of this. If 73 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: you want to see where the problem with the hospital is, 74 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 2: it's the fact that we can't get people out of hospital. 75 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: So at the moment it is still a situation where 76 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: it's the age care beds that we are really relying on. 77 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: I mean, after you and I spoke last time, I 78 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: spoke to both the Health Minister and also Luke Gosling. 79 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: They assured our listeners that were in a situation where 80 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: the federal government and the Northern Territory government are talking 81 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: to each other to try and sort this issue out. 82 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: But it just can't happen quickly enough. 83 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: No, it can't, and no government and this goes for 84 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: previous governments. Isn't just about this government. Can can put 85 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: their hands up and say, well, this is stuff we're 86 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 2: only discovering now. I mean, this has been our message 87 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: for a long time. Now, the back of the NAP 88 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: can match. We're looking at about four hundred million dollars 89 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 2: of systemic underfunding from a federal level. That's not change 90 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: for us. I mean, if you look at the hospitals, 91 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: we receive about thirty one percent of our hospital funding 92 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: comes from commonwealth sources, whereas the average around the country 93 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 2: is around thirty eight. Now you're talking one hundred and 94 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: fifty million, two hundred million or a state like New 95 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 2: South Wales that might not buy you much, but here 96 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 2: that's life changing doctors orbis. 97 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: We also kas had just told us a short time 98 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: ago that you know, they need thirty two extra nurses 99 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 1: in the ED alone. You know, how are we tracking 100 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: staffing wise? From the AMA's perspective. 101 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 2: We're always needing more doctors. We've been talking about recruitment 102 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: and retention up in the territorind I've spoken on your 103 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 2: show before about keeping doctors in the NT. We know 104 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 2: that we're still spending a lot of money on locum doctors, 105 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: doctors who are visiting and then flying back home. And 106 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 2: that helps provide a service. But in the long term, 107 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 2: we want to be able to keep territory born, territory trained. 108 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: People who come to the territory, love the territory, stay 109 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 2: in the territory, like myself. We want to make that 110 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: an attractive option and that's a huge component of providing 111 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 2: that healthcare system as well. We need our GPS, we 112 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 2: need our specialists, we need. 113 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: Doctors. Orbust if I got you there, you cut out 114 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: for a moment. Sorry, I've got your gescah, I can 115 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: hear you again. Now, Hey, what about when it comes 116 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: to that Acacia system, you know, the computer system or 117 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: the IT system that was being rolled out. How are 118 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: things tracking along with that? 119 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, we've still got significant concerns with a KESHA. It 120 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 2: is a very very expensive project. It's getting more expensive. 121 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: And if we're saying we don't have enough health resources 122 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 2: for the health system as it is, then sinking more 123 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 2: money into an IT system that we're not happy with 124 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 2: is not a great idea. The last time Acasia within 125 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 2: Royal Dialen and Palmsten had to be switched off because 126 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: it was unsafe. Now, systems, you know, you have IT 127 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: systems that might have some hiccups and we might make 128 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 2: some changes. But I think if a system is in 129 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: your health you know, your hospitals, your emergency departments and 130 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: the clinicians have to switch it off because it's unsafe, 131 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 2: then you need to prove it's safe before you bring 132 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 2: it back. So I think we need a little bit 133 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 2: more than just reassurance from the government that things are 134 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 2: progressing and that you know, we're having meetings with stakeholders 135 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: and committees. I think the same clinicians who said this 136 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 2: system were unsafe until they think that the system is safe. 137 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 2: You know, we were not convinced. We need to see 138 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: that first. 139 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: Doctor John Zorbas, I'm going to be catching up, I 140 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: believe after ten o'clock. I think I've got the CEO 141 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: of NT Health, the chief executive of NT Health on 142 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: the show just before eleven o'clock. I mean, what is 143 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: the message from the IMA's perspective. 144 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 2: So we've got a good dialogue with the chief executive, 145 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 2: and I suppose you know, we've been calling for coch 146 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 2: yellow and solutions for overr capacity for a while. So 147 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: first I'd say we're all on the same team, and 148 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 2: I'm happy that management have made this decision. To make 149 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 2: this call. And this shouldn't be a political decision, right 150 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: this this should be a clinical decision. So glad it's 151 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 2: been made. Now let's look at how we're going to 152 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,679 Speaker 2: fix this in the long term because that four hundred million, Yeah, 153 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: it's got to come. It's got to come yesterday. Really well, 154 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: let's look at that. 155 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: Honestly, we've been talking about it, you know, well before, 156 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: you know, from many years ago when we were catching 157 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: up with doctor Robert Parker. It's something that we've been 158 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: talking about for so long. I've had, you know, families 159 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: contact me on this show over the years saying Katie, 160 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, I've got a loved one with dementia or 161 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: who is in hospital, who is an aged care patient 162 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: who shouldn't be in hospital, but there's nowhere for them 163 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: to go. It's so bloody, sad and difficult. 164 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: And it hits double for staff in health because we're 165 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 2: patients too. I've been a patient at RHORDA, and my 166 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,679 Speaker 2: kids have been patients, my wife has been a patient. 167 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: You know, we live and breathe this, and so we're 168 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: not just the deliverers of the care. We receive the care. 169 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: And you know, this is something usually it's usually US 170 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 2: at war. This is something we all agree on. So 171 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: here in the territory labor, CLP, health not health. I 172 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: mean we're talking about systemic underfunding from a federal government 173 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 2: and these have been labor and liberal federal government. Is 174 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: it not about what flag you fly? This is just 175 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: about the simple maths anyway you cut this, we are 176 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 2: being disadvantaged on a national scale. 177 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: Spot on well, doctor John's orbis. I always appreciate your time. 178 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: I know you're busy, mate, so thank you very much 179 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: for having a chat with us today. 180 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 2: No, it's truth skaty. We appreciate it. Thanks,