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Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. My name's

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Speaker 1: doctor Justin Coulson. What do you do when your best

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Speaker 1: friend's partner is diagnosed with a terminal illness and you

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Speaker 1: need to help both your own child and in supporting

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Speaker 1: the family their children to navigate this devastating news. How

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Speaker 1: do you find the right words when sometimes it feels

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Speaker 1: like there are simply no right words or even actions.

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Speaker 1: That's what we're tackling on today's podcast. Stay with us. Hello,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Families podcast. Real Parenting Solutions every day.

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Speaker 1: This is Australia's number one parenting podcast and a really

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Speaker 1: really tricky one. Today every Tuesday we tackle your tricky topics.

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Speaker 1: If you'd like to submit a question, go to the

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Speaker 1: super simple system at happyfamilies dot com dot AU press record,

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Speaker 1: leave us a note. It's that simple. Otherwise, you can

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Speaker 1: email your voice notes to podcasts at Happy families dot

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Speaker 1: com dot A You Kylie Today a tough one. An

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Speaker 1: anonymous listener whose voice we've changed, asks one of the

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Speaker 1: toughest questions.

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Speaker 2: There is my best friend's husband, we're all forty forty

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Speaker 2: three forty four, has just been diagnosed with a brain

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Speaker 2: tumor and it's not oking good. They have three children

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Speaker 2: who are aged eight, twelve, and fourteen. So I guess

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Speaker 2: my question is how do you talk to your children

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Speaker 2: about when a parent has a really serious illness and

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Speaker 2: a terminal illness and how do you support them through that?

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Speaker 2: And for us, we only have one child who's seven,

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Speaker 2: and how do we talk to him about it as well?

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Speaker 2: I think it's a really complex issue. But maybe you've

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Speaker 2: got some really to go and helpful advice, but we

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Speaker 2: can work with and they can help other people out

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Speaker 2: who are going through something similar.

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Speaker 1: Thanks very much, Kylie, that's the question today.

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Speaker 3: I love that we've created a community where when we

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Speaker 3: have these struggles, we know where to come to ask

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Speaker 3: for help. And I love that this beautiful friend whose

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Speaker 3: heart is breaking alongside her friends, is desirous to find

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Speaker 3: a way to navigate this with not only her own child,

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Speaker 3: but with her friend's children as they they walk this really,

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Speaker 3: really challenging path together.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I hear a question like that and

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Speaker 1: I just think life is so hard. Sometimes life's just

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Speaker 1: so hard. Some years ago, I took a call from

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Speaker 1: a mum and I'm pretty sure I told you about this.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to help her kids. They lost their dad

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Speaker 1: nine months prior. The circumstances were just tragic, and the

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Speaker 1: ladies two girls were working through that loss. She wanted

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Speaker 1: to help them because she just received a terminal cancer

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Speaker 1: diagnosis herself, and the kids were going to be left

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Speaker 1: without both their parents. We've grappled with these questions before,

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Speaker 1: both on the podcast and in real life, and today

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Speaker 1: we are going to be as helpful as we can

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Speaker 1: because we know that it's not just this mum who's

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Speaker 1: going through it. My sister recently lost a friend in

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Speaker 1: almost exactly the same circumstances.

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Speaker 3: One of the hardest things about living life is the

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Speaker 3: recognition that with birth and all the joys that are

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Speaker 3: associated with that, in most circumstances, there's also the deep

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Speaker 3: sadness and sorrow that we experience when we farewell a

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Speaker 3: loved one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So today, two different responses. First off, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about what a family can do when they receive

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Speaker 1: this awful news, and then a conversation about how to

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Speaker 1: talk to your own kids about it and how they

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Speaker 1: can be helpful themselves. First off, if you're in a

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Speaker 1: family where horrible news like this is occurring, whether it's

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Speaker 1: directly within the family or even a little bit outside it.

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Speaker 1: First idea that I really want to emphasize is that

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Speaker 1: it's important that we tell the truth and that we

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Speaker 1: do it in age appropriate ways. Kids can handle difficult

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Speaker 1: truths way better than we think, but what they can't

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Speaker 1: handle particularly well at all is uncertainty and secrecy. I

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Speaker 1: think research is pretty clear on this. Kids who are

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Speaker 1: kept in the dark often imagine scenarios that are worse

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Speaker 1: than the reality. And on top of the fear and

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Speaker 1: anxiety and worry and apprehension that they're experiencing, they also

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Speaker 1: lose trust in the adults that are around them when

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Speaker 1: they sense that something's being hidden. So for an eight

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Speaker 1: year old, you might say something really simple, or a

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Speaker 1: five year old, you might say, Daddy has something called

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Speaker 1: a brain tumor, which is like a sickness in his head.

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Speaker 1: Or Auntie or Nan or whoever it is, they have

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Speaker 1: this sickness in their head, and the doctor is going

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Speaker 1: to do everything they can to help. But this is

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Speaker 1: a really serious illness and we don't know exactly what's

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Speaker 1: going to happen. But we'll always tell you the truth

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Speaker 1: about how Daddy's doing if the kids are older, let's

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Speaker 1: say twelve, fourteen, sixteen, I think not only can you,

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Speaker 1: it's important that you are more direct. Dad's tumor is

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Speaker 1: the kind that the doctors can't cure. We don't know

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Speaker 1: how long we have together, but we're going to make

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Speaker 1: sure that you know what's happening every step of the way,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to make sure that we make the

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Speaker 1: most of the time that we have that we're going

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Speaker 1: to keep it sacred and make it work. The key

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Speaker 1: is matching the information to your child's developmental stage, while

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Speaker 1: never lying or giving any kind of false hope.

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Speaker 3: When you're dealing with such complex challenges and specifically heartache.

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Speaker 3: At this time, emotions are rampant. They're all over the place,

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Speaker 3: and when we're not able to at least acknowledge to

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Speaker 3: our children why there's all that emotion, it's so hard

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Speaker 3: for them to navigate because we're not who we usually

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Speaker 3: are with them as well. We're grappling with our own emotions,

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Speaker 3: and I just I think it's so important that we

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Speaker 3: actually are able to not only give them the details,

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Speaker 3: but share with them how we're feeling, help them to

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Speaker 3: recognize it it's okay to be sad right now, it's

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Speaker 3: okay to be really angry or I feel those things too,

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Speaker 3: Like acknowledging emotion is so powerful.

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Speaker 1: The load that you carry will be heavier if you

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Speaker 1: try to keep it a secret. Yeah, and they're going

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Speaker 1: to see through it anyway. Tho I know something's going

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Speaker 1: on all right, misconnection. Well, I didn't interview anyone who

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Speaker 1: was going through something like this. These four hundred Australian

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Speaker 1: teenage girls that I interviewed and surveyed consistently highlighted that

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest concerns that they carry as adolescent

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Speaker 1: girls is knowing that there's something wrong with mum or dad,

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Speaker 1: or a sister or a brother or somebody and they

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Speaker 1: don't know the details. They said things like my parents

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Speaker 1: well being When I said, what do you worry about

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Speaker 1: the most? The second thing that I want to add

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Speaker 1: really quickly hear is when you're talking to your kids

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Speaker 1: about this and it's happening in your family, you want,

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Speaker 1: to the degree that it's possible maintain routine and maintain

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Speaker 1: rituals that you have or even create new ones. Kids

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Speaker 1: need anchors when things are upside down, so we want

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Speaker 1: to keep as much of their normal life and routine

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Speaker 1: in harmony with what it always has been. Just keep

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Speaker 1: it as consistent as possible, whether at school or sports

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Speaker 1: or friendships, because we're not going to be distracting them

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Speaker 1: from grief. What we're going to do instead is increase

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Speaker 1: their feeling that the world is still stable in these

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Speaker 1: domains when this core domain is absolutely rocking. But I

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Speaker 1: also like the idea of creating new rituals that are

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Speaker 1: going to help the family to stay connected during a

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Speaker 1: tough time. So it might be that we decide that

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Speaker 1: every Sunday morning is that special breakfast, or we have

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Speaker 1: these daily check ins where we're making sure that everyone's

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Speaker 1: doing okay and solving problems together.

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Speaker 3: Oh, we come together at the end of the day

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Speaker 3: and list the things that we're grateful for. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: These rituals are going to give kids predictable times where

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Speaker 1: they get to connect, they get to process what's happening. Now.

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Speaker 1: If your kids need to support a friend, we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about how to help them them next. Okay, Kylie, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about what we can do when our children. Let's

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Speaker 1: say we've got a child who's five, six, seven, eight

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Speaker 1: and they want to support a friend who's going through

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Speaker 1: a hard time. I've just got two core ideas that

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Speaker 1: I want to share, and I'm sure that you'll have

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Speaker 1: some ideas to add as well. The first is that

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Speaker 1: we want to teach them to just be consistently caring

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Speaker 1: towards their friends. So a seven year old, for example,

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Speaker 1: is not going to be able to fix this situation.

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Speaker 1: But what they can do is they can show that

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Speaker 1: they care in really, really simple ways. So I'm looking

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Speaker 1: to help him to understand that his job isn't to

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Speaker 1: make his friend feel better, it's just to be a

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Speaker 1: good friend. When they feel like it's their job to

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Speaker 1: help someone to cheer up in a circumstance that where

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Speaker 1: that's impossible, that doesn't work, but just being a good

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Speaker 1: friend does. So playing together normally, sharing toys or outings,

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Speaker 1: going for a ride together, or even knowing when to

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Speaker 1: step in and give them a hug and say I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry that your mum or your dad or your parent

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Speaker 1: is sick, like those things are what good friends do.

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Speaker 1: I also, I have a script that I think is

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Speaker 1: useful here, something that you can teach him to practice,

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Speaker 1: saying I don't know what to say, but I care

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Speaker 1: about you, like if somebody just says that, what an impact.

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Speaker 3: Well, even just acknowledging it looks like you're really sad today.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what to say, but I just want

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Speaker 3: you to know that I noticed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I noticed you. I care about you. I can

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Speaker 1: tell you having a bad day. I mean a lot

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Speaker 1: of adults even struggle in that situation, So this will

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Speaker 1: be a useful script for adults as well. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what to say, but I really care about you.

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Speaker 1: I'm here for you. But giving kids permission to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: that will while still showing that they care, I think

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Speaker 1: is really valuable. The second thing that I wanted to

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Speaker 1: emphasize is this our job as adults is that if

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Speaker 1: we can support the adults, we're going to actually be

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Speaker 1: supporting our children and their children as well. So practical

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Speaker 1: support things like can I pick up the groceries for

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Speaker 1: you on Tuesday? Hope if I took the kids for

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Speaker 1: a few hours on Saturday? Do you and your husband

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Speaker 1: wife partner need some time, We'd love to support you

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Speaker 1: by looking after the kids and giving you a weekend

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Speaker 1: away or something like that. That kind of practical stuff

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Speaker 1: makes such a difference.

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Speaker 3: I want to take that a little bit further. If

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Speaker 3: you're in a close relationship with someone it's not an

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Speaker 3: acquaintance from school and you know your kids play, but

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Speaker 3: you don't really know the parents, Like this is.

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Speaker 1: Your best friend, and you can hear from the voice

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Speaker 1: note that we've received that this is somebody who's closed,

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Speaker 1: this is really affecting.

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Speaker 3: Then I think that it's actually well within the realms

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Speaker 3: of a caring friend to actually make some of those

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Speaker 3: decisions for them. We want to take the burden of

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Speaker 3: the cognitive load off them when people so.

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Speaker 1: Are you saying, like, just just show up on Thursday

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Speaker 1: night with dinner and say or at four o'clock give

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Speaker 1: them a call, don't worry about dinner tonight. I'm bringing

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Speaker 1: it around.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So I found myself in this exact situation. My

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Speaker 3: best friend rang me one night and told me that

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Speaker 3: her husband was being worked on by paramedics, and by

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Speaker 3: the time I got there, he passed away. And as

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Speaker 3: I watched her walk through the motions of life over

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Speaker 3: the next years, I mean years, This took years, and

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Speaker 3: still the one thing that she reiterated to me was

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Speaker 3: just the acknowledgment that people would ask her what she needed.

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Speaker 3: She had no idea what she needed, like she couldn't

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Speaker 3: even yeah, I think for herself, let alone think for

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Speaker 3: somebody else. And if somebody's able to see a need

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Speaker 3: and fill it without me having to think, then that's

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Speaker 3: the greatest gift.

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Speaker 1: So what sort of thing? What did you do? And

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to steal your thunder. I want you

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Speaker 1: to actually describe what you did, because I didn't see

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Speaker 1: you for a few weeks, like you were absolutely just

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Speaker 1: doing so much to support our friend. What did you

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Speaker 1: specifically do?

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Speaker 3: Because of the nature of it, she had lots of

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Speaker 3: people in and out of her house, so I pretty

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Speaker 3: much stayed in the kitchen. I managed all the food

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Speaker 3: that came in and out. I made sure that she

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Speaker 3: had meals because she would literally just greet people as

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Speaker 3: they would come in the doors. And this would happen

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Speaker 3: all day for days, for days and days and days,

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Speaker 3: And if I didn't put food in front of her,

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Speaker 3: she wouldn't have eaten and she wouldn't even have thought

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Speaker 3: to take a drink. You know, when your grief is

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Speaker 3: so deep, you don't think about the things that you

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Speaker 3: know you need to keep you going.

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Speaker 1: So what's really going on here is this modeling, showing

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Speaker 1: up for somebody in a crisis, practical care, consistent presence,

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Speaker 1: allowing space for difficult emotions that come with these kinds

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Speaker 1: of situations. And what I think is also really useful

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Speaker 1: is saying, hey, your kids are welcome here. Our place

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Speaker 1: is a safe place for your kids. If you need

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Speaker 1: a break, if you just need some time out so

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Speaker 1: that you can be together as a couple, you can

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Speaker 1: have that time. Sometimes kids that are dealing with this

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Speaker 1: sort of thing in their home, they just need a

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Speaker 1: safe space where they can laugh and play and maybe forget,

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Speaker 1: at least temporarily about all the heavy things that are

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Speaker 1: going on in their lives. Take them for a walk

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Speaker 1: down to the park and buy ice creams and kick

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Speaker 1: a ball around and get them in nature and.

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Speaker 3: That have a great big mama hug, like literally just

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Speaker 3: be enveloped.

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Speaker 1: That kind of practical support makes I think, such a difference.

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Speaker 1: We really hope that there has been a helpful conversation.

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Speaker 1: We hope very much that things somehow can turn around

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Speaker 1: or at least be alleviated for families who are going

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Speaker 1: through these kinds of very very difficult situations. It's just

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Speaker 1: so tough. Next week, another tricky question. If you'd like

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Speaker 1: to submit yours for next time, happy families dot com

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Speaker 1: dot you record your message or send a voicemail to

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Speaker 1: podcasts at happy families dot com dot au. Big thanks

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Speaker 1: to Justin Rulin from Bridge Media for producing the pod. Memhammonds,

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Speaker 1: as always, looks after the research, the admin and resources.

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Speaker 1: Please share the pod, tell others about it, past this

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Speaker 1: episode along if you think it'll help, and visit happy

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Speaker 1: families dot com do I use for more resources to

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Speaker 1: make your family happier