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Speaker 1: Well tenants in remote Aboriginal communities. Well, in one Aboriginal community,

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Speaker 1: i should say, won the right to soothe a Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory government for not carrying out housing repairs in a

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Speaker 1: landmark High Court ruling yesterday. So more than seventy households

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Speaker 1: from Santa Teresa took legal action against distress cause by

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Speaker 1: living well years of living in what was described as

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Speaker 1: dilapidated and uninhabitable homes, with claims including leaking sewerage, unstable

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Speaker 1: security electricity, I should say, a lack of hot water

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Speaker 1: and no air conditioning. Now joining me on the line

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Speaker 1: is Solicitor Dan Kelly, who was part of the Australian

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Speaker 1: Lawyers for Remote Aboriginal Rights team representing those residents. Good

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Speaker 1: morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Dan, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning. Dan. What

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Speaker 1: was the reaction to the court's ruling yesterday, Well, well.

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Speaker 2: The reaction from the community was one of happiness, a

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Speaker 2: feeling of indication, and it seems that everyone sort of

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Speaker 2: quite satisfied with the outcome.

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Speaker 1: Now tell me, can you well tell me a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about the conditions that those tenants were living

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Speaker 1: in in those homes.

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Speaker 2: Well as you said, you know, we had in Santa Theresa.

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Speaker 2: We had clients whose toilets were overflowing and pumping sawage

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Speaker 2: through the house. We had people without ovens, people with

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Speaker 2: their electricity that was not working properly would cut out.

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Speaker 2: We had people with no air conditioning and just simply

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Speaker 2: not able to live in their houses for several months

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Speaker 2: of the year, I should say two. We worked in

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Speaker 2: other communities. It's not like Sana Theresa was any different

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Speaker 2: visa conditions that are suffered right across the seventy two

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Speaker 2: remote communities in the NT.

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Speaker 1: Now we're talking about homes that are managed by Territory Housing, right, yes,

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Speaker 1: and tell me what, you know, what was their response

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Speaker 1: in the court as to why they weren't sort of

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Speaker 1: maintained those toilet facilities and electricity and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Well, often their go to response is at the tenants responsible,

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Speaker 2: and they're the post us at every stage of the

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Speaker 2: court proceedings. So yeah, I mean, clearly that's not the case.

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Speaker 2: The thoughts of damage that we're talking about, for instance,

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Speaker 2: the problem with the toilet that came out that was

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Speaker 2: a tree route. A lot of these things are just

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Speaker 2: due to a lack of proper repair and maintenance or

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Speaker 2: improper installation.

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Speaker 1: Dan, how long has this fight been going on?

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Speaker 2: Well, we started acting in Sana Theresa in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: That was when seventy residents, seventy households from that community

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Speaker 2: took the department to the tribunal and it's gone all

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Speaker 2: the way from the Tribunal and our springs up to

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Speaker 2: the High Court.

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Speaker 1: It's a decision that could have wide ranging rammifications right

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Speaker 1: across the country, giving tenants a new way to hold

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Speaker 1: those landlords accountable for unsafe, unhealthy, uncomfortable housing. What does

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Speaker 1: the decision mean for those tenants that you represented.

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Speaker 2: Well, essentially, what this means is it opens up a

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Speaker 2: new avenue of compensation, and that is that is compensation

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Speaker 2: not only for the physical inconvenience of having to put

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Speaker 2: up with the issue, but also the mental anguish or

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Speaker 2: distress that was caused by the issue. So it's opened

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Speaker 2: up this new this new avenue of compensation. This is

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Speaker 2: not limited to remote communities. This was an action brought

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Speaker 2: under the Residential Tenancies Act. It would apply to all

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Speaker 2: all landlords and tenants in the Northern Territory and possibly Australia.

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Speaker 1: White now what's next, I suppose in terms of those

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Speaker 1: tenants or those you know, those those remote community resonants,

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Speaker 1: in terms of their ability to soothe an Northern Territory government.

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Speaker 2: Now, well, now now this avenue is opened, we returned

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Speaker 2: to the court in the Northern Supreme Court in the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory, where we'll have argument about the quantum or

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Speaker 2: the amount of compensation that should be paid. That's the

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Speaker 2: next step. And I should say, although we're quite focused

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Speaker 2: on compensation, it's not really what's driving my clients. The

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Speaker 2: fight has always been about better housing. It's only that

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Speaker 2: this is the only tool available through which to try

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Speaker 2: and get some response out of the government.

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Speaker 1: Dan, are there any figures that you know have been

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Speaker 1: bandied around here.

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Speaker 2: In terms of quantum Yeah, the amount of competence, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: dear amount. I think I think it's early days. I

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Speaker 2: think the case law is kind of varied, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: we'll just have to see.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately, from what you're saying, they really they just

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Speaker 1: want to make sure that the houses are in a

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Speaker 1: condition that they can live in.

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Speaker 2: Well, absolutely, that's that's all people want. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: think the problems of overcrowding in these remote communities are

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Speaker 2: well known, you know, you know, families of fifteen eighteen

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Speaker 2: people living in a three bedroom house. The conditions out

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Speaker 2: bush really are really really hard on people, and the

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Speaker 2: social outcomes, the impacts on education and employment. You know,

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Speaker 2: these are all well known. But we don't yet have

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Speaker 2: a proper plan to get this problem fixed.

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Speaker 1: So what are the next steps now?

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Speaker 2: Well, our next step is, as I say, to head

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Speaker 2: to the Court of Appeal, the Supreme Court in the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory and have this fight over quantum and to

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Speaker 2: continue to try and hold the Northern Territory to account

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Speaker 2: when they don't meet legal standards.

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Speaker 1: Dan, I know that there'll be some people listening, you know,

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Speaker 1: saying similar to what what you've said. NT Housing has

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Speaker 1: sort of said that tenants aren't looking after their homes.

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Speaker 1: There will be some listening that are questioning that whether

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Speaker 1: we've got a situation here now where homes have been

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Speaker 1: built in some remote communities or in Santa Teresa as

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Speaker 1: we've been speaking about, that home is overcrowded. Some may

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Speaker 1: believe that it's not been looked after adequately and now

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Speaker 1: people are able to sue the government. What do you

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Speaker 1: say to those listeners that might be thinking that.

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Speaker 2: Well, I say that's just thing correct. I mean, there

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Speaker 2: is data on this. You know, this data from health

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Speaker 2: Habitat who've been repairing houses in remote communities for twenty

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Speaker 2: five years. They say that sort of what you would

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Speaker 2: describe as tenant damage, which also includes sort of external

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Speaker 2: vandalism or overuse which can be caused by overcrowding, only

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Speaker 2: accounts for seven percent of repairs and maintenance. And that's

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Speaker 2: a figure that is comparable with other tenants across the

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Speaker 2: private and public spectrum. So it's not true that Aboriginal

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Speaker 2: people are responsible for these problems, and I think the

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Speaker 2: data makes that clear.

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Speaker 1: Well, Dan, I really appreciate you having a chat to

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Speaker 1: us this morning. We'll keep in contact with you. I'll

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Speaker 1: be really interested to hear how this all progresses. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for chatting with me today. Thank you