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Speaker 1: Black cast Unite our voices. Black Magic Women Podcast acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land we have recorded this

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Speaker 1: episode on. We also acknowledge traditional owners of the land

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Speaker 1: where you the listener orvier are tuning in from. We

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Speaker 1: would like to pay our respects to our elders past

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Speaker 1: and present and acknowledge that this always was Aboriginal land

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Speaker 1: and always will be Aboriginal land.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mondonara Bails.

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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another amazing episode. Every single episode

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Speaker 1: is amazing of the Black Magic Women Podcast. I am

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Speaker 1: really excited and just this moment of being able to

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Speaker 1: sit with black women, to sit with women who inspire me,

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Speaker 1: and to sit with women who I can't wait for

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Speaker 1: other people to find out about. And that's why I

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Speaker 1: love doing this podcast is I get to amplify the

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Speaker 1: many black voices. Whether we're in business or not, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Our stories, our experiences and the roles that

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Speaker 1: we play in our family and community and now in

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Speaker 1: the business sector excites me. So I know I always

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Speaker 1: say I'm excited to have this yarn, but I truly

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Speaker 1: am feeling blessed, privileged to finally, you know, find out

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Speaker 1: more about your amazing not just one business, as a

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Speaker 1: few businesses there. But as always I say to people,

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Speaker 1: you know, following proper protocol and just acknowledging that I'm

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Speaker 1: on the unseeded beautiful lands of the Wadjack Nungar people.

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Speaker 1: And they refer to this country in their language as Bja,

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Speaker 1: So we're on Nunga Buja Wadjack Nunga. Butcha here I

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Speaker 1: am two days and those words are sticking with me already,

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Speaker 1: and I've got the absolute privilege to be able to

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Speaker 1: speak with local people, local mob and just talk about

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Speaker 1: whatever it is that we want to talk about. So

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Speaker 1: without further or do Amanda Healley, Welcome to the Black

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Speaker 1: Magic O Podcast. Can you please share with my listeners

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Speaker 1: and also we've got viewers on YouTube a little bit

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Speaker 1: about yourself, you mob, where you grew up and whatever

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Speaker 1: it is that you want to share.

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Speaker 3: Fabulous.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. It's beautiful to

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Speaker 2: be here, and you're right, we are on gorgeous Wajack No,

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Speaker 2: which I really appreciate. So my people are the Wannerooer

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Speaker 2: people from the Hunter Valley and New South Wales. But

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Speaker 2: I and I'm part of the Tagget family over there.

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Speaker 2: I have lived here in Wa since I was about

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Speaker 2: fifteen years old.

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Speaker 3: My dad bought.

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Speaker 2: Us over I guess as young people, just four better opportunities,

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Speaker 2: opportunities that he would never have had on his own country.

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Speaker 2: So he was always thankful and love living in Western Australia.

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Speaker 2: Spent many years in around Geraldon, the Murchison, the Pilbra.

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Speaker 2: I guess he worked in the mining industry because it

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Speaker 2: was one of those industries that people didn't ask too

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Speaker 2: many questions in those days, so he was able to

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Speaker 2: find work to support his family, and it was sort

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Speaker 2: of natural for me to go into the mining industry.

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Speaker 3: I probably went in there when I was about first started.

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Speaker 2: Working there when I was about twenty two, and I've

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Speaker 2: been in the mining industry ever since, which is a

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Speaker 2: long time. And you know, it has its faults, and

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Speaker 2: it does some dumb stuff at various times, as I

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Speaker 2: guess all business does, but by and large it employees

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Speaker 2: a lot of our people and now is encouraging a

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Speaker 2: lot of Aboriginal businesses to develop here. So I think

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Speaker 2: we are the largest group of Aboriginal businesses in the

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Speaker 2: country here and most to them servicing the mining industry.

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Speaker 1: So the Nunga Chamber of Commerce has about five hundred members.

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Speaker 3: Yes, amazing, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly So that's like, like obviously when you said,

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Speaker 1: we've got the largest number of abitional businesses in this region,

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Speaker 1: and majority of those business service the mining industry, and

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Speaker 1: majority of our people that live on the West Coast

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Speaker 1: are working in these mines and putting food on the

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Speaker 1: table for their families.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, So you know.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that we can find sometimes that common grand

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Speaker 1: or mutual grant of sometimes even being torn between you know,

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Speaker 1: morally culturally, what's the right thing should we be doing

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Speaker 1: business with them? So yeah, I always say that, you know,

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Speaker 1: for me as an individual, who am I to judge

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Speaker 1: if somebody's only opportunity sometimes is that industry and it is.

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Speaker 2: It is interesting, and a lot of people are conflicted

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Speaker 2: about it. Some won't work in it ever, and that's fine,

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Speaker 2: you know, that's great, and that there never seems to

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Speaker 2: be an issue about others working in it, which I

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Speaker 2: think is great. We all accept that that's the major

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Speaker 2: industry in this part of the world. So and it's

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Speaker 2: providing opportunities for our people that you know, to be

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Speaker 2: fair have.

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Speaker 3: Never been available before.

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Speaker 2: More and more every year we're seeing more and more businesses,

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Speaker 2: individuals with you know, operating in senior levels in mining,

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Speaker 2: in mining companies. It's amazing, you know. And as you say,

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Speaker 2: putting food on the table, helping extended family, pulling extended

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Speaker 2: family into roles and jobs that they would never have

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Speaker 2: thought about doing twenty or thirty years ago. So look,

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Speaker 2: you know, it has got it bugs, It's got its bugs.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, but it is what it is. And I

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Speaker 2: say to people, you know, what can we do to

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Speaker 2: change things? Well, we won't get into that yet because

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Speaker 2: I've got better things we want to talk about.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yes, wanna ruer people. Is my mother's country, Is

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Speaker 1: that right? My mother was the daughter of Patricia Riley,

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Speaker 1: and Patricia was a Miller. Yes, And Patricia's mother was Harriet, No,

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Speaker 1: not Harriet Beatrice Miller. And Beatrice is the daughter of Harriet,

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Speaker 1: and Harriet the daughter of Sarah, and Sarah Wards is.

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Speaker 3: The matriarch of your family.

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Speaker 1: She's the abbical ancestor that you have to prove your

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Speaker 1: connection to to be a member of the wannaoa Nation

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Speaker 1: Averiginal Corporation. So we are probably related.

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Speaker 3: No doubt.

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Speaker 2: So my apical elder is Harry Taggert, Yes, and he

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Speaker 2: there is Miller's. You know, we're married into the Miller's,

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Speaker 2: so probably more by marriage unless you go right back.

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Speaker 1: There's a Harry Miller in my family. There's a Tommy Miller.

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Speaker 1: There's a Harry Miller. I think it was Beatrice's brother, Harry. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you've got Harry Tagget Harry tagger that's your.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely so.

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Speaker 1: Who would have thought to want to rule women? Sitting

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Speaker 1: on the couch on Wadjack Nunga.

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Speaker 3: Looking gorgeous in Kurriken.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's sell people. You have been all around the world.

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Speaker 1: Last time we connected, I wanted to yarn with you

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Speaker 1: and come over here, and you're off to Germany, and

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Speaker 1: I had no idea, Like I knew that you did

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Speaker 1: fashion and beautiful fashion, but traveling the world and doing

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Speaker 1: these runways or private shows. Can we share? Let's go

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Speaker 1: back now, what made you get into fashion? From mining

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Speaker 1: industry to fashion?

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Speaker 2: And I guess it was about mining in the first place,

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Speaker 2: because at the time you were about twenty ten, when

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Speaker 2: it became a thing to identify as aboriginal businesses.

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Speaker 3: What was then AMC grew up or was developed, which

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Speaker 3: is now Supply Nation. That's correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we identified as an Aboriginal business in the

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Speaker 2: mining industry, which was a small fabrication business in port Headland,

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Speaker 2: and I started doing presentations and I went looking for

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Speaker 2: a nice scarf that could represent who we were, where

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Speaker 2: we're from and had authentic connection to the mob.

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Speaker 3: Guess what was around?

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Speaker 1: Nothing?

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Speaker 3: Nothing, not a bloody thing. Well I'm a lad to

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Speaker 3: say that.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, it could have been worse, I suppose. So I

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Speaker 2: started complaining about it for a couple of years and

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Speaker 2: then finally, when I couldn't see any change and not

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Speaker 2: many people had any interest or the ability to do stuff,

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Speaker 2: we set up curri Can in twenty fourteen. So we're

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Speaker 2: ten years old this year.

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Speaker 1: Congratulation, thank you.

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Speaker 2: It's gone very quickly. I got to tell you. So

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Speaker 2: I started doing scarves and ties.

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Speaker 1: That's where I first met your Supply Nation. Yes, a

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Speaker 1: long time ago, about eight years ago.

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Speaker 3: Yea.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, would be first Metua and you had the scarves.

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Speaker 1: And at that time I couldn't even keep my phone

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Speaker 1: on a black cart. I kept getting it disconnected because

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Speaker 1: couldn't pay my bill.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I was looking at these.

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Speaker 1: Scarves eight years ago, and I knew one day.

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Speaker 3: You would have to have one.

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Speaker 1: One day, and today you gifted.

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Speaker 3: Me one, not just one, bits and pieces here, so

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Speaker 3: thank you.

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Speaker 1: I literally for me. It was a pinch me moment

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Speaker 1: when I opened that bag because I remembered the first

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Speaker 1: time I didn't even try a scarf because I knew

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Speaker 1: I couldn't afford one. But how beautiful the scarves were

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Speaker 1: that you've been able to create.

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Speaker 2: So it's a social enterprise, right, And I love Aboriginal art.

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Speaker 3: I'm not an artist.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't paint to save my life, to be honest,

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Speaker 2: but I love looking at like I spend my life

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Speaker 2: looking at beautiful Aboriginal art and when if you ever

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Speaker 2: come to my house, it's just absolutely full of it

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Speaker 2: that I've picked up wherever I've been. So we started

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Speaker 2: digitally printing authentic Aboriginal art onto scarves and ties and

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Speaker 2: turn that. You know, didn't take long before we start

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Speaker 2: to realize these people who are selling art don't make

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Speaker 2: very much out of it. So we turned it into

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Speaker 2: a social enterprise with the intent to create sustainable incomes

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Speaker 2: for our women in particular, probably you know in remote

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Speaker 2: more remote communities. But as it's turned out, I've got

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Speaker 2: people from all over the show.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, beautiful artwork. My biggest problem is knowing where

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Speaker 3: to stop. And then in two you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I'm a big collector of scarves, now are you awesome? So,

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Speaker 1: and I gift my beautiful grandmother, my business partner art Lalla,

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Speaker 1: I gift her a scarf from wherever I go. So

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Speaker 1: I come back and I say, Anna, I brought you something.

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Speaker 1: So she only loves the best of the best with scarves,

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Speaker 1: loves silk. You've got other is.

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Speaker 3: It pashshmi Kashmir.

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Speaker 1: Kashmir or is it pashmir cash mean it?

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Speaker 2: So they often called pash means that's where Yeah, you're

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Speaker 2: probably a bit confused.

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Speaker 1: Did you get into doing those? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: So I do cashmir and silks.

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Speaker 1: I kneah because I was looking at it, I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not even going to ask the price of these

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Speaker 1: because of the quality I knew, so high quality luxury,

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Speaker 1: luxury items.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's the intent of it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, because for me, one of the things that I

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Speaker 2: saw regularly was this disparagement of our culture.

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Speaker 3: Nothing, you know, like, what a load of rubbish it is?

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Speaker 2: So I it annoyed the hell out of me. So

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Speaker 2: of course my first instinct was to prove that wrong.

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Speaker 2: I love proving people wrong.

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Speaker 1: It's a good feeling. Take that to take that.

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Speaker 2: So of course I was always going to go high

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Speaker 2: end with anything I did in that space, to try

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Speaker 2: and associate our culture and our stories with you know,

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Speaker 2: like really positive, nice stuff, meaningful.

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Speaker 1: Stuff, the high standards. Yeah that we have as black

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Speaker 1: filos for ourselves and what we do and what we

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Speaker 1: invest in or support. Yeah, we're not different people.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: So started with the scars.

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Speaker 3: Scarves and tires.

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Speaker 2: And then in twenty sixteen I met a lady here

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Speaker 2: who worked in the fashion industry. Well, we used to

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Speaker 2: have a fashion We don't have a fashion event each

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Speaker 2: year now, but and she said to me, are you

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Speaker 2: I took in some scarves for her to have a

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Speaker 2: look at, and she looked at me, she are you

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Speaker 2: completely crazy?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: I went, what do you mean?

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Speaker 2: You know when she said, these prints, these colors, this

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Speaker 2: artwork is stunning.

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Speaker 3: You need to do something more with that.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, I thought about it for three minutes and said, okay,

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Speaker 2: what do I do?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Where do I start?

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Speaker 3: Where do I start?

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Speaker 2: And so she introduced me to a designer here who

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Speaker 2: helped me do my first collection.

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Speaker 1: And this is in two thousand and sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Summer of sixteen seventeen, we had our first runway down.

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Speaker 3: On City Beach with Camilla stop it. Yes, mind you.

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Speaker 3: People were a bit more interested Camilla than Kurrican.

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Speaker 1: And that's a start though, to get the brand out

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Speaker 1: with Camilla.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, so that was gorgeous.

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Speaker 1: You didn't have to wait ten years to do.

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Speaker 3: That, No, I didn't.

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Speaker 2: I mean it was you know, like it was a

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Speaker 2: pretty limited It wasn't a very small It was a

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Speaker 2: pretty small collection.

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Speaker 3: You were there, Yeah, and you know the beauty.

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Speaker 2: Of that has been that Aboriginal models, photographers, makeup artists

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Speaker 2: all become involved and you know what, there's a heap

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Speaker 2: of them around and doing amazing work. So for me,

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Speaker 2: you know, that was that was really sort of special

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Speaker 2: and we've just gone on and developed from there and

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Speaker 2: we so in two thousand and twenty two, I spent

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Speaker 2: the last three months of the year in Paris studying

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Speaker 2: how to be a fashionista.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you I love this three months in

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Speaker 1: to be a fashionist? Yeah, why not go to Paris?

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Speaker 3: Well, where else would you go?

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Speaker 1: Would you go?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Why'd you tell us about Paris?

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Speaker 3: So I had three months there. I won a Churchill Fellowship,

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Speaker 3: which was amazing because it was very they were sort

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Speaker 3: of looking for something different. They often do medical and.

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Speaker 2: Educational things, so this was sort of a different type

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Speaker 2: of enterprise that they were investing their energy in, which

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Speaker 2: was great. So I won it in twenty nineteen. But

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Speaker 2: of course then I was supposed to go in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty and guess what happened.

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Speaker 1: You know, we were locked down. Yeah, and you fellows

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Speaker 1: copped it in wa You can even your borders were the

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Speaker 1: hardest borders.

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Speaker 3: We could barely walk to the end of the street before.

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Speaker 3: I was a bit like that.

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Speaker 2: And I finally decided when everything opened up in May

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Speaker 2: twenty two, I sort of went, I've got to do

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Speaker 2: it because I only had another twelve months.

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Speaker 3: To get to be able to access the fellowship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah fellowship, Yeah, And so I said, I'm okay, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go and do this. So I started

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Speaker 2: looking for a few core and I was actually really

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Speaker 2: wanted to go to London because there was a really

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Speaker 2: like there was a lot of stuff there.

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Speaker 3: Prior to.

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Speaker 2: The pandemic, but it all disappeared. Paris was still running.

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Speaker 2: They were just they just kept running straight through. So

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Speaker 2: I just linked into one of theirs and did three

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Speaker 2: months with an amazing Russian designer. She was who ran

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Speaker 2: the whole course, and.

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Speaker 3: That was a lot of fun.

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Speaker 2: And you know, it's interesting to learn new skills like that.

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Speaker 2: It's never too late, No, it's never too late. Got

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Speaker 2: on these people now that are watching this.

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Speaker 3: Yep, never too late.

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Speaker 2: I'm sixty six this year, and so I was sixty

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Speaker 2: four when I did it, and a few people did

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Speaker 2: question me about like why are you doing this at

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Speaker 2: this stage of.

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Speaker 1: Your life, you know, But because I want to and

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Speaker 1: I can.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I want to see where, yeah, where it's

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Speaker 2: taking me. So i've sort of this this year's collection,

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Speaker 2: you'll see a really big change. We're looking a lot

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Speaker 2: more sophisticated and and I guess we've used a noongar

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Speaker 2: artist with two beautiful prints this year, so keep an eye.

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Speaker 3: Out for that. That'll be coming out probably about May

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Speaker 3: June this year.

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Speaker 2: But it's so really whilst the individual skills you develop

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Speaker 2: as you go along, what it gave me is a

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Speaker 2: lot more confidence and I'll tell you something.

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Speaker 3: Living in Paris is a constant inspiration.

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Speaker 2: We had this beautiful little apartment up in the you know,

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Speaker 2: one level up that we you know, carry our bag,

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Speaker 2: it's back to every was very so kitch, you know,

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Speaker 2: like so so typical. But it was like the course

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Speaker 2: itself was very engaging. As I said, the designer who

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Speaker 2: ran the course was from Russia, which also was really

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Speaker 2: an eye opener. You know, everybody, we're sort of taught

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Speaker 2: from a young age that Russians are evil and they're

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Speaker 2: not you know.

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Speaker 1: Germans or German.

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Speaker 2: Yeah what Africa's as always someone always someone isn't.

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Speaker 1: There kind of you stay in your yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how we've been educating well certainly in my era. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: there was this course, you know, so but I loved

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Speaker 2: working with her, and she and I still keep in contact,

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Speaker 2: in fact, and so part of that. Part of the

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Speaker 2: reason I wanted to go to Europe was because in

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Speaker 2: early twenty twenty two, we out of the Blue had

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Speaker 2: been approached by the FAT in Brussels to come and

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Speaker 2: do a runway show there because they had a big

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Speaker 2: Aboriginal art exhibition there, so they wanted to enhance it

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Speaker 2: sort of develop it some way, and I convinced them

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Speaker 2: that whilst I'm really happy to go, I think that,

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Speaker 2: you know, like I'm not representative of Aboriginal Australia, there's

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Speaker 2: a heap of other people that I could take along.

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Speaker 2: So at that time we took with us also Mara

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Speaker 2: Collective and nacally and ourselves, so we had a three

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Speaker 2: group runway. Oh and Leander Swim of course from the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory, My beautiful Leander.

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Speaker 1: And Leandrews had an episode on Black Magic Woman.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, she's a legend.

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Speaker 2: So so there was four of us who went over

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Speaker 2: had the best time, you know, like blew their socks off.

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Speaker 2: We took a young boy from here, caught one of

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Speaker 2: the Collared boys who did the most amazing dance and

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Speaker 2: introduction for us, and you know, like people were sitting

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Speaker 2: most of them were Australians who were over there for

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Speaker 2: the UN, NATO, UNESCO whatever, all those international urbanized diplomats.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all of that stuff, and they're sitting in their

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Speaker 3: seat crying. They couldn't believe.

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Speaker 2: They were all really homesick, and they were like they

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Speaker 2: couldn't believe how beautiful this display of the stories that

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Speaker 2: we were telling, and so that was a lot of fun.

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Speaker 2: And once one of the things that I did observe though,

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Speaker 2: was that you know, and somebody made this point to me,

361
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Speaker 2: you know, for the first time in their life, we

362
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Speaker 2: dook a couple of young models, for the first time

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Speaker 2: in their lives. Their culture was up there on the

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Speaker 2: stage looking amazing, people loving it. They were treated with

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Speaker 2: not only interest but respect.

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Speaker 1: Right. That does a lot for anyone, absolutely, but especially

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Speaker 1: for people who.

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Speaker 3: Haven't been haven't done that, you know, I haven't.

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Speaker 1: Been given an opportunity, haven't been given a chance to

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Speaker 1: get to know us and to see us for who

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Speaker 1: we are as people, not just our aboriginality, but who

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Speaker 1: we are as people. And that's sad.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's terrible, you know.

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Speaker 1: For some of our mob that had to leave their

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Speaker 1: own country to experience that. But at the same time

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Speaker 1: how empowering and exciting and uplifting that you will remember

377
00:20:00,511 --> 00:20:02,511
Speaker 1: that moment and they will remember that moment for the

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Speaker 1: rest of.

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Speaker 2: Them lie of their lives. We took a photographer along

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Speaker 2: who who also one of the hooky boys from North Queensland,

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Speaker 2: you know, great photographer and again, you know, from that

382
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Speaker 2: he's gone on, he's got an international career going on.

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Speaker 2: He's or all the time applying for this and that

384
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Speaker 2: and the other.

385
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Speaker 3: But all the time he was over.

386
00:20:22,991 --> 00:20:25,991
Speaker 2: There, he was hustling hard to get, you know, to

387
00:20:26,111 --> 00:20:29,271
Speaker 2: work with models in Paris and London and put that

388
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Speaker 2: in his portfolio.

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Speaker 3: How amazing is that? Cassie Pour and Tatamary. I don't

390
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Speaker 3: know if you know Cassie.

391
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Speaker 1: She was on the front cover? Was it Vogue? Oh?

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Speaker 3: She's on everything these days.

393
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Speaker 1: Are going to get Cassi on my podcast.

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Speaker 3: She's a great kid. She came with us so that

395
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Speaker 3: on that trip.

396
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Speaker 2: She came with us because Leandra knew her and she

397
00:20:49,631 --> 00:20:52,751
Speaker 2: was developing a Yeah they are well but I think well

398
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Speaker 2: t we.

399
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Speaker 3: But you know she was developing as a model. But

400
00:20:58,831 --> 00:21:00,951
Speaker 3: look the last couple of years, what's happened to me?

401
00:21:01,151 --> 00:21:11,231
Speaker 1: Vogue magazine? Yah, so you've been able to from fashion,

402
00:21:11,431 --> 00:21:15,911
Speaker 1: we're mining and your business and the resources sector. You're

403
00:21:15,911 --> 00:21:17,111
Speaker 1: going back? How long now?

404
00:21:17,151 --> 00:21:20,271
Speaker 2: You been in business for so the first so up

405
00:21:20,391 --> 00:21:24,471
Speaker 2: until my son was born, who's now twenty five, I

406
00:21:24,551 --> 00:21:28,471
Speaker 2: worked in big business like BHP and Rio Tinto and

407
00:21:28,511 --> 00:21:30,951
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. So then for a couple of years

408
00:21:30,991 --> 00:21:34,551
Speaker 2: I consulted from home, and then in two thousand and

409
00:21:34,591 --> 00:21:37,231
Speaker 2: three I started my first business, which was in the

410
00:21:37,271 --> 00:21:40,351
Speaker 2: mining industry, so that you know, it took a while

411
00:21:40,391 --> 00:21:43,951
Speaker 2: to develop and I had that business called max Engineering

412
00:21:43,991 --> 00:21:49,151
Speaker 2: until twenty fifteen was sold off to another another big

413
00:21:49,271 --> 00:21:50,351
Speaker 2: international business.

414
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Speaker 1: You know, So you've sold a business. Yeah, pretty deadly,

415
00:21:55,031 --> 00:21:55,671
Speaker 1: pretty deadly.

416
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Speaker 2: Well, you know, like I mean that sounds great, but

417
00:21:58,271 --> 00:22:00,071
Speaker 2: you don't end up a millionaire.

418
00:22:00,111 --> 00:22:02,471
Speaker 3: You know, from that sort of stuff. So it was

419
00:22:02,911 --> 00:22:07,391
Speaker 3: and it was a small business in the import headland, but.

420
00:22:07,391 --> 00:22:11,511
Speaker 1: It was a value to somebody. It wasn't yeah to

421
00:22:11,551 --> 00:22:13,711
Speaker 1: be able to build a business as a black woman,

422
00:22:14,671 --> 00:22:17,391
Speaker 1: and so let's sell it like that's a huge achievement.

423
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Speaker 1: And for me, I've always thought, you know, one day,

424
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Speaker 1: will I sell black Card? Will I license it? Now

425
00:22:24,311 --> 00:22:27,871
Speaker 1: I've got a podcast network, black Cast. Will I ever

426
00:22:27,951 --> 00:22:29,511
Speaker 1: sell that? What is it going to be? Am I

427
00:22:29,551 --> 00:22:32,111
Speaker 1: building an empire? Do I want to build an empire?

428
00:22:32,111 --> 00:22:35,431
Speaker 1: Like I'm always thinking about an exit strategy? Yes, And

429
00:22:35,471 --> 00:22:38,591
Speaker 1: then I start thinking do I want an exit strategy?

430
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Speaker 1: So I get torn around. I'm in business, Is this

431
00:22:42,591 --> 00:22:44,151
Speaker 1: what I want to do for the rest of my life,

432
00:22:44,271 --> 00:22:48,151
Speaker 1: but hearing other people what they've done. It's not always

433
00:22:48,191 --> 00:22:52,351
Speaker 1: about making millions of selling a business. It could be

434
00:22:53,111 --> 00:22:54,271
Speaker 1: a new chapter.

435
00:22:55,031 --> 00:22:59,271
Speaker 2: Right one, one door closes, another way another one. And

436
00:22:59,631 --> 00:23:02,511
Speaker 2: like for me, it actually it took me a couple

437
00:23:02,511 --> 00:23:06,311
Speaker 2: of years. The really thing, like you, I built that

438
00:23:06,351 --> 00:23:11,591
Speaker 2: business from nothing, from absolutely nothing, you know, I had

439
00:23:13,191 --> 00:23:17,231
Speaker 2: a redundancy payout from my last job in the mining industry,

440
00:23:17,551 --> 00:23:19,311
Speaker 2: and that's what we started. It was a lot of

441
00:23:19,351 --> 00:23:21,191
Speaker 2: money in those days. I think it was about twelve

442
00:23:21,231 --> 00:23:24,191
Speaker 2: thousand dollars or something like that. But we started that

443
00:23:24,311 --> 00:23:26,871
Speaker 2: business from that. So every sin I had went into

444
00:23:26,991 --> 00:23:30,351
Speaker 2: it and we built it up. And the worst thing

445
00:23:30,471 --> 00:23:35,351
Speaker 2: for me was letting go. I cried, my baby, it

446
00:23:35,471 --> 00:23:36,391
Speaker 2: is that your baby?

447
00:23:36,471 --> 00:23:39,631
Speaker 1: Yeah, get birth sweat, Yeah, you create on it, yeah,

448
00:23:39,671 --> 00:23:41,391
Speaker 1: pature that yeah, and then you've got to let go

449
00:23:41,471 --> 00:23:41,751
Speaker 1: of it.

450
00:23:41,911 --> 00:23:44,871
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we and so you know, like that was

451
00:23:44,871 --> 00:23:45,551
Speaker 2: the worst thing for me.

452
00:23:45,591 --> 00:23:50,591
Speaker 3: And the day they turned off my email address, yeah,

453
00:23:50,711 --> 00:23:52,231
Speaker 3: that was it. That's what it felt like.

454
00:23:52,631 --> 00:23:55,431
Speaker 1: I was in tears. I was like, how dare they

455
00:23:55,551 --> 00:23:56,151
Speaker 1: do that to me?

456
00:23:56,231 --> 00:23:57,951
Speaker 3: Yet of course it's not my business anymore.

457
00:23:58,031 --> 00:24:01,071
Speaker 1: So you grieved and you got through it. You come

458
00:24:01,111 --> 00:24:03,391
Speaker 1: out the other side. Look at you, now, look at me, Now,

459
00:24:03,751 --> 00:24:06,911
Speaker 1: I can't stop you. So for people that are listening

460
00:24:07,351 --> 00:24:11,991
Speaker 1: in particular, I always want to address black women, young women,

461
00:24:12,351 --> 00:24:20,711
Speaker 1: any women, young girls that are aspiring models, photographers, artists, entrepreneurs.

462
00:24:21,271 --> 00:24:24,871
Speaker 1: What's some of the key learnings as a woman in

463
00:24:24,991 --> 00:24:27,351
Speaker 1: business you want to share with us some of the

464
00:24:27,431 --> 00:24:30,031
Speaker 1: key learnings. I think that you've just got a lot

465
00:24:30,071 --> 00:24:34,271
Speaker 1: of experience. I don't usually get into key learnings, but

466
00:24:34,311 --> 00:24:38,191
Speaker 1: I just think that how valuable to hear some of

467
00:24:38,231 --> 00:24:41,471
Speaker 1: your key learnings in the different industries.

468
00:24:42,071 --> 00:24:43,431
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think.

469
00:24:44,831 --> 00:24:46,631
Speaker 2: I guess the first thing is always keep your mind

470
00:24:46,671 --> 00:24:49,871
Speaker 2: open and be flexible because you know what you get.

471
00:24:50,151 --> 00:24:52,071
Speaker 2: And I used to do this too, get a picture

472
00:24:52,071 --> 00:24:53,551
Speaker 2: in my head about where I wanted to be.

473
00:24:54,191 --> 00:24:57,471
Speaker 3: Doesn't always work like that. And business is about being responsive.

474
00:24:58,031 --> 00:25:00,031
Speaker 2: So you've got to do what your client wants, not

475
00:25:00,111 --> 00:25:03,271
Speaker 2: necessarily tell them what you want them to do.

476
00:25:03,991 --> 00:25:08,911
Speaker 1: Just listen to your clients and be open, be flexible.

477
00:25:09,191 --> 00:25:13,711
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would say, excuse me, that's probably one

478
00:25:13,711 --> 00:25:13,991
Speaker 2: of them.

479
00:25:13,991 --> 00:25:14,871
Speaker 3: And the other one is.

480
00:25:15,271 --> 00:25:18,511
Speaker 2: You've got to keep you know, like you have to

481
00:25:19,511 --> 00:25:22,551
Speaker 2: fail before you can succeed. You know, you have to

482
00:25:22,671 --> 00:25:24,951
Speaker 2: learn you have to learn what's not the right thing

483
00:25:25,031 --> 00:25:27,991
Speaker 2: to do before you learn how to do the right thing.

484
00:25:28,031 --> 00:25:28,911
Speaker 3: If that's so, there's.

485
00:25:28,791 --> 00:25:32,431
Speaker 1: Nothing wrong with failing, And I think that's really important

486
00:25:32,711 --> 00:25:36,471
Speaker 1: me being in business and literally failing many times trying

487
00:25:36,471 --> 00:25:38,631
Speaker 1: to launch this product that didn't go down, and well,

488
00:25:39,191 --> 00:25:41,911
Speaker 1: trying to tell the client what I think they need

489
00:25:41,951 --> 00:25:45,471
Speaker 1: when they're telling me, no, we want this, and I'm like, oh,

490
00:25:45,511 --> 00:25:48,231
Speaker 1: I don't have that, And then now starting to think, well,

491
00:25:48,271 --> 00:25:52,191
Speaker 1: why haven't I already created that? You know, maybe I

492
00:25:52,271 --> 00:25:55,831
Speaker 1: wasn't ready to respond. I might not always be the

493
00:25:55,951 --> 00:26:00,031
Speaker 1: right partner, right, So, flexibility is everything.

494
00:26:00,271 --> 00:26:04,111
Speaker 2: Everything is everything in business, I think, and responsiveness. As

495
00:26:04,111 --> 00:26:06,671
Speaker 2: you say, you might not actually have what your client

496
00:26:06,711 --> 00:26:09,991
Speaker 2: wants at that moment, but you can go and have

497
00:26:10,031 --> 00:26:12,871
Speaker 2: a look and say maybe I can do something with

498
00:26:12,911 --> 00:26:15,191
Speaker 2: that or a part of that, or you know, take

499
00:26:15,231 --> 00:26:18,311
Speaker 2: that and change it into that and it happens.

500
00:26:18,351 --> 00:26:19,071
Speaker 3: And the other thing that.

501
00:26:19,071 --> 00:26:23,351
Speaker 2: I always say is never take no for an answer,

502
00:26:23,511 --> 00:26:25,791
Speaker 2: you know, like, go back, figure it out again, go

503
00:26:25,871 --> 00:26:28,471
Speaker 2: back again to your clients and say, well, sorry, you

504
00:26:28,511 --> 00:26:30,951
Speaker 2: know that didn't work, but how about this, will this work?

505
00:26:31,111 --> 00:26:33,511
Speaker 2: You know, will we get would this get me some traction.

506
00:26:33,911 --> 00:26:35,951
Speaker 2: How can we find a path through all this?

507
00:26:36,471 --> 00:26:39,711
Speaker 1: Don't take no for an answer. Go and get some feedback.

508
00:26:39,751 --> 00:26:43,751
Speaker 1: If there is a no understand what went wrong so

509
00:26:43,911 --> 00:26:46,591
Speaker 1: that you can improve. You cannot improve if you don't

510
00:26:46,631 --> 00:26:51,711
Speaker 1: know where those shortfalls are or those gaps are, or

511
00:26:51,751 --> 00:26:55,951
Speaker 1: whatever capacity, capability, whatever it is. Get feedback. And that's

512
00:26:55,951 --> 00:26:58,791
Speaker 1: something that I haven't really done myself because I've never

513
00:26:58,831 --> 00:27:02,951
Speaker 1: gone out to compete for business. So I don't preciate.

514
00:27:02,631 --> 00:27:05,311
Speaker 3: What You're a unicorn, aren't you really?

515
00:27:05,471 --> 00:27:08,551
Speaker 1: Yes? So I don't need feedback because I don't. I

516
00:27:08,591 --> 00:27:12,671
Speaker 1: don't go and compete. And that's that's that's unique in

517
00:27:12,671 --> 00:27:15,271
Speaker 1: its sense. There's a lot of black businesses that would say, wow,

518
00:27:15,351 --> 00:27:19,471
Speaker 1: you don't compete for business and that competitive procurement process. No,

519
00:27:19,591 --> 00:27:21,231
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't have to, which is good.

520
00:27:22,311 --> 00:27:23,551
Speaker 3: But it's a position to be in.

521
00:27:23,551 --> 00:27:25,911
Speaker 1: It's a great position, but it's taken a long dance

522
00:27:25,991 --> 00:27:26,711
Speaker 1: time to get.

523
00:27:26,591 --> 00:27:27,111
Speaker 3: To get there.

524
00:27:27,231 --> 00:27:30,791
Speaker 2: That shit overnight success takes a bit of bit of time, doesn't.

525
00:27:31,431 --> 00:27:37,031
Speaker 1: And you know, surrounding myself with good people and that

526
00:27:37,111 --> 00:27:40,311
Speaker 1: rubs off on me as well, and listening to you know,

527
00:27:40,351 --> 00:27:43,391
Speaker 1: what they do, how they did things, who do you

528
00:27:43,591 --> 00:27:47,351
Speaker 1: go to for advice or do you have any mentals?

529
00:27:47,791 --> 00:27:51,431
Speaker 2: So I guess that over time there's been a number

530
00:27:51,431 --> 00:27:53,031
Speaker 2: of them, because you know, there's a whole heap of

531
00:27:53,031 --> 00:27:55,511
Speaker 2: stages in your life that even when I was young,

532
00:27:55,631 --> 00:27:57,991
Speaker 2: I used it. My dad was Aboriginal, my mum wasn't,

533
00:27:58,071 --> 00:28:01,111
Speaker 2: So you know, like if I wanted to understand who

534
00:28:01,151 --> 00:28:04,111
Speaker 2: I was and where we came from, it be dad

535
00:28:04,111 --> 00:28:07,631
Speaker 2: I'd go to. But if it was about you know,

536
00:28:08,311 --> 00:28:12,151
Speaker 2: other like womanly stuff, I'd go to my mum, which

537
00:28:12,791 --> 00:28:13,551
Speaker 2: which makes sense.

538
00:28:13,671 --> 00:28:14,071
Speaker 1: Yeah.

539
00:28:14,111 --> 00:28:15,111
Speaker 3: And then you know.

540
00:28:15,111 --> 00:28:18,351
Speaker 2: Just understanding the mining industry again my dad, because he'd

541
00:28:18,351 --> 00:28:21,391
Speaker 2: worked in it for years and you know, always worked

542
00:28:21,631 --> 00:28:24,951
Speaker 2: in remote places and lived in remote places. But over time,

543
00:28:25,711 --> 00:28:30,511
Speaker 2: people you work with, so I guess in more recent times,

544
00:28:32,391 --> 00:28:33,191
Speaker 2: I listen.

545
00:28:33,151 --> 00:28:34,151
Speaker 3: A bit to my son.

546
00:28:34,391 --> 00:28:37,071
Speaker 2: It sounds funny to be listening to somebody who's so

547
00:28:37,191 --> 00:28:38,231
Speaker 2: much younger than you.

548
00:28:38,391 --> 00:28:39,671
Speaker 1: They have a different.

549
00:28:41,231 --> 00:28:45,191
Speaker 2: Jen whatever they are millennials and who knows, I'm not

550
00:28:45,351 --> 00:28:47,911
Speaker 2: sure millennials millennials.

551
00:28:48,671 --> 00:28:51,031
Speaker 1: So your son, yeah, who's.

552
00:28:50,751 --> 00:28:53,271
Speaker 3: Twenty five, and he, you know, has a completely different

553
00:28:53,311 --> 00:28:54,231
Speaker 3: take on life.

554
00:28:54,671 --> 00:28:58,031
Speaker 2: And it's really interesting when we employ people the business,

555
00:28:58,031 --> 00:29:00,671
Speaker 2: I you know, the warrical business employs a lot of people.

556
00:29:00,951 --> 00:29:05,551
Speaker 2: How many people got about twelve hundred stop it, no,

557
00:29:05,551 --> 00:29:07,471
Speaker 2: no lie, not a word of a lie.

558
00:29:08,071 --> 00:29:12,911
Speaker 1: Twelve hundred employees. That is a massive organization.

559
00:29:13,071 --> 00:29:14,231
Speaker 3: It's a big organization.

560
00:29:14,511 --> 00:29:17,631
Speaker 1: There's not many black organizations in this country that have

561
00:29:17,751 --> 00:29:21,671
Speaker 1: that many employees. There's only a few, and I think

562
00:29:21,711 --> 00:29:24,591
Speaker 1: I can I don't even one that I met. A

563
00:29:24,631 --> 00:29:28,351
Speaker 1: deadly woman that was on this podcast that was an

564
00:29:28,391 --> 00:29:31,631
Speaker 1: IBA partnership series that I did. Yes, I'm trying to

565
00:29:31,631 --> 00:29:33,311
Speaker 1: think of her name, and I know the last time

566
00:29:33,391 --> 00:29:37,431
Speaker 1: was Mason. Do you remember it, Priscilla, I'd asked my

567
00:29:37,471 --> 00:29:42,271
Speaker 1: deadly producer here, Priscilla Mason was literally for me, just

568
00:29:42,311 --> 00:29:47,071
Speaker 1: blew me out of this world with like four hundred employees.

569
00:29:47,111 --> 00:29:50,271
Speaker 1: That that to me was like, Sis, you just look

570
00:29:50,431 --> 00:29:53,351
Speaker 1: like me. You know. It's black women doing our thing,

571
00:29:54,311 --> 00:29:59,271
Speaker 1: and you're humble, You're grounded. It hasn't changed you, because

572
00:29:59,311 --> 00:30:01,711
Speaker 1: some people will say that the bigger you get, obviously

573
00:30:02,231 --> 00:30:06,711
Speaker 1: people start to you know, lose themselves. I lose touch

574
00:30:06,751 --> 00:30:10,351
Speaker 1: with their community, community and their family. How important is

575
00:30:10,391 --> 00:30:11,831
Speaker 1: your community to you?

576
00:30:12,151 --> 00:30:15,871
Speaker 2: To look I probably would say that I'm more involved

577
00:30:15,911 --> 00:30:19,991
Speaker 2: with our community and the bits of the pool here

578
00:30:20,111 --> 00:30:23,351
Speaker 2: from a majority of all my life. Yeah, and that's

579
00:30:23,391 --> 00:30:26,951
Speaker 2: good that you've been able to find that your community

580
00:30:26,991 --> 00:30:29,711
Speaker 2: here and your sense of belonging in this community.

581
00:30:30,031 --> 00:30:31,551
Speaker 3: And honestly, they're great.

582
00:30:31,631 --> 00:30:34,471
Speaker 2: They're a great mob, right like all of us, you know,

583
00:30:34,631 --> 00:30:37,871
Speaker 2: like they try to do their best and get along.

584
00:30:37,911 --> 00:30:41,711
Speaker 2: But one of the things that I particularly love about

585
00:30:41,791 --> 00:30:45,591
Speaker 2: Warrical that we're able to do is we get men

586
00:30:45,631 --> 00:30:48,591
Speaker 2: as they come out of prison and they're trained and

587
00:30:48,631 --> 00:30:51,711
Speaker 2: we put them on site and you have a focus

588
00:30:51,831 --> 00:30:55,991
Speaker 2: on ex offenders, ex offenders I don't know the mom

589
00:30:56,071 --> 00:31:00,111
Speaker 2: that have been you know, had it rough, yeah, present

590
00:31:00,311 --> 00:31:01,431
Speaker 2: and usually forgotten about.

591
00:31:02,591 --> 00:31:04,951
Speaker 3: So we've got it. We've got to of around thirty

592
00:31:04,991 --> 00:31:09,951
Speaker 3: I think or thirty five that work with us regularly.

593
00:31:10,311 --> 00:31:12,551
Speaker 3: They're fantastic. They're a fantastic group of guys.

594
00:31:12,591 --> 00:31:15,191
Speaker 2: So and we're actually just working with another group now

595
00:31:15,231 --> 00:31:17,431
Speaker 2: to see if we can expand that further, can get

596
00:31:17,471 --> 00:31:18,191
Speaker 2: more of those.

597
00:31:19,071 --> 00:31:22,991
Speaker 1: Not just ex offenders, but you know, giving mob opportunity.

598
00:31:23,191 --> 00:31:23,511
Speaker 3: Yeah.

599
00:31:23,551 --> 00:31:27,911
Speaker 1: Absolutely, is that amazing as business owners that we are

600
00:31:27,911 --> 00:31:29,831
Speaker 1: in a position to be able to do more.

601
00:31:30,311 --> 00:31:33,711
Speaker 3: It's incredible to give back to our community. It's incredible.

602
00:31:34,391 --> 00:31:38,151
Speaker 2: We also work with a lot of smaller developing Aboriginal businesses,

603
00:31:38,311 --> 00:31:41,271
Speaker 2: which is which is also great. You know, we're able

604
00:31:41,311 --> 00:31:43,911
Speaker 2: to carve off bits of work for them and help

605
00:31:43,951 --> 00:31:48,671
Speaker 2: them develop as businesses as well. So look, you know,

606
00:31:48,711 --> 00:31:50,631
Speaker 2: for me at this stage of my life, I feel

607
00:31:50,671 --> 00:31:56,951
Speaker 2: incredibly privileged to have had this understanding of culture. Although

608
00:31:57,591 --> 00:32:00,631
Speaker 2: you know most of it is Nuga, it's not my own,

609
00:32:02,831 --> 00:32:04,911
Speaker 2: it's still fantastic stick and the people have been great.

610
00:32:04,951 --> 00:32:08,191
Speaker 3: The connections are wonderful. You've just had Uncle Laurel here.

611
00:32:08,111 --> 00:32:17,071
Speaker 1: And oh and Lorraine Pry her mother. I feel incredibly privileged,

612
00:32:17,151 --> 00:32:20,031
Speaker 1: you know, to be welcomed and and just support it

613
00:32:20,631 --> 00:32:22,791
Speaker 1: on this country, not just welcome to see ladies and

614
00:32:22,991 --> 00:32:26,831
Speaker 1: nice to that you're here, you know, and even Wally

615
00:32:27,591 --> 00:32:31,071
Speaker 1: and he's partner with Go Cultural Tours. I've just been

616
00:32:31,111 --> 00:32:33,071
Speaker 1: immersed in the culture here and I don't want to leave,

617
00:32:33,191 --> 00:32:36,071
Speaker 1: and I'm usually homesick by now I've been away for

618
00:32:36,111 --> 00:32:40,991
Speaker 1: four days. Well, I just want to say that I

619
00:32:41,031 --> 00:32:42,991
Speaker 1: feel privileged to be able to sit on this couch

620
00:32:43,031 --> 00:32:45,791
Speaker 1: and have this garn and to be connected with you.

621
00:32:46,591 --> 00:32:51,511
Speaker 1: And I did not realize that our Wannerooer connection there

622
00:32:51,511 --> 00:32:58,191
Speaker 1: you will always yes, we're we're mob even though you're

623
00:32:58,231 --> 00:33:00,871
Speaker 1: on this side of the country and I'm over there

624
00:33:00,871 --> 00:33:02,991
Speaker 1: on the East Coast. I'm going to make sure that

625
00:33:03,431 --> 00:33:05,271
Speaker 1: not only do I stay in touch with you, but

626
00:33:05,431 --> 00:33:08,391
Speaker 1: just to reach out because there's not enough of us

627
00:33:08,471 --> 00:33:10,751
Speaker 1: in terms of black women in business that are supporting

628
00:33:10,751 --> 00:33:16,831
Speaker 1: each other, mentors. You know, it's not even you know,

629
00:33:17,031 --> 00:33:20,031
Speaker 1: we should not wait till times get tough. We should

630
00:33:20,031 --> 00:33:22,271
Speaker 1: be connecting with each other and just celebrating our wins

631
00:33:22,271 --> 00:33:22,711
Speaker 1: as well.

632
00:33:23,111 --> 00:33:25,831
Speaker 3: Absolutely should be more of it. It's actually not enough

633
00:33:25,831 --> 00:33:25,991
Speaker 3: of it.

634
00:33:26,071 --> 00:33:29,271
Speaker 1: It's not That's why I'm like thinking, you're gonna get

635
00:33:29,311 --> 00:33:29,711
Speaker 1: sick of me.

636
00:33:30,551 --> 00:33:32,511
Speaker 3: Oh good, I'll I'll look forward to that.

637
00:33:33,111 --> 00:33:35,271
Speaker 1: We're going to catch up a little bit later. I'm

638
00:33:35,311 --> 00:33:38,311
Speaker 1: going to be able to go and actually shop, go

639
00:33:38,391 --> 00:33:41,951
Speaker 1: and try on some more beautiful Currican garments, some high

640
00:33:42,071 --> 00:33:45,591
Speaker 1: end fashion, and I hope that you also jump online

641
00:33:45,751 --> 00:33:48,711
Speaker 1: and take a look at the beautiful clothes and also

642
00:33:48,791 --> 00:33:53,191
Speaker 1: the new collection coming out mid this year. Can I

643
00:33:53,311 --> 00:33:56,831
Speaker 1: just say thank you. It's been an absolute privilege to

644
00:33:56,991 --> 00:33:59,391
Speaker 1: just yarn and to hear your story. I didn't know

645
00:33:59,751 --> 00:34:02,391
Speaker 1: eighty percent of what you shared with me. I don't

646
00:34:02,471 --> 00:34:06,471
Speaker 1: like to Google people I like to hear the first

647
00:34:06,471 --> 00:34:11,671
Speaker 1: time and my reactions are actually authentic. So thank you

648
00:34:11,751 --> 00:34:15,151
Speaker 1: so much for making time in your business schedule to

649
00:34:15,191 --> 00:34:15,591
Speaker 1: be here.

650
00:34:15,951 --> 00:34:17,751
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. It was awesome.

651
00:34:18,591 --> 00:34:19,431
Speaker 1: Until next time.

652
00:34:19,631 --> 00:34:22,191
Speaker 3: Till next time, absolutely bye for now.

653
00:34:23,591 --> 00:34:26,631
Speaker 1: If you'd like any more info on today's guest, please

654
00:34:26,751 --> 00:34:31,511
Speaker 1: visit our show notes in the episode description. A big

655
00:34:31,551 --> 00:34:34,271
Speaker 1: shout out to all you Deadly Mob and allies who

656
00:34:34,311 --> 00:34:38,311
Speaker 1: continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast. Your feedback

657
00:34:38,431 --> 00:34:41,511
Speaker 1: means the world. You can rate and review the podcast

658
00:34:41,631 --> 00:34:44,711
Speaker 1: on Apple and Spotify, or even head to our socials

659
00:34:44,751 --> 00:34:47,471
Speaker 1: and YouTube channel and drop us a line. We'd love

660
00:34:47,551 --> 00:34:50,751
Speaker 1: to hear from you. The Black Magic Woman's podcast is

661
00:34:50,831 --> 00:34:52,391
Speaker 1: produced by Clint Curtis

662
00:34:52,431 --> 00:34:54,951
Speaker 3: And brought to you by the black Cast Network