WEBVTT - The Long Wait for Justice 0:00:04.111 --> 0:00:06.551 Quodcast Unite Our Voices. 0:00:11.751 --> 0:00:15.351 This is Curtain, a podcast where we expose the disappearances 0:00:15.391 --> 0:00:18.871 of Aboriginal people across this country, shining a light on 0:00:18.951 --> 0:00:22.231 the darkest parts of our justice system. We ask who 0:00:22.271 --> 0:00:23.151 are the victims? 0:00:23.511 --> 0:00:28.351 I'm aiming Macquire and I'm Martin Hodgson, Senior Advocate at 0:00:28.351 --> 0:00:31.871 the Foreign Prisoner Support Service. And a warning. This series 0:00:31.991 --> 0:00:36.511 contains the names of deceased people and includes distressing content 0:00:36.631 --> 0:00:38.351 that may upset some listeners. 0:00:41.711 --> 0:00:44.711 Hello and welcome to Season two, Episode eight of Curtain 0:00:44.751 --> 0:00:49.991 the podcast. Today we are going to discuss a story 0:00:50.031 --> 0:00:53.751 that happened back in nineteen eighty seven. It's the case 0:00:53.871 --> 0:00:59.151 of horrendous violence perpetrated against two young Aboriginal teenage girls 0:01:00.231 --> 0:01:03.391 in the New South Wales town of burk Their names 0:01:03.391 --> 0:01:07.191 were Mona Lisa Smith and just sent to Smith, who 0:01:07.271 --> 0:01:10.431 was known by her friends and family as Cindy. Mona 0:01:10.471 --> 0:01:14.711 Lisa was sixteen and Cindy was fifteen when they died 0:01:14.751 --> 0:01:18.071 in the early hours of sixth of December nineteen eighty seven. 0:01:18.671 --> 0:01:21.191 We're going to discuss a bit about the details of 0:01:21.271 --> 0:01:25.231 this case because last year, from twenty seventh November to 0:01:25.231 --> 0:01:29.591 one December twenty twenty three, an inquest, a long awaited 0:01:29.631 --> 0:01:33.831 inquest was finally held into their deaths in Burke and 0:01:33.911 --> 0:01:37.471 it was an inquest that was held because of the 0:01:37.471 --> 0:01:42.791 long standing advocacy and care of Mona, Lisa, and Cindy's families, 0:01:43.231 --> 0:01:46.151 who never tired in trying to find out the truth 0:01:46.351 --> 0:01:48.471 of what had happened to them. And in a lot 0:01:48.511 --> 0:01:51.751 of these inquests, the stories of the girls or the 0:01:51.751 --> 0:01:55.871 women who have passed is often eclipsed by the horrific 0:01:55.911 --> 0:01:59.271 details of what happened to them. So today on the podcast, 0:01:59.311 --> 0:02:01.311 we're going to open with some of the memories of 0:02:01.391 --> 0:02:04.271 Mona and Cindy as told to the end Quest by 0:02:04.271 --> 0:02:09.551 their families. Mona's mother, June Smith, shared about her daughter Mona. 0:02:10.391 --> 0:02:12.871 She said, Mona was a beautiful baby and she grew 0:02:12.951 --> 0:02:15.991 up you know, lovely, happy, go lucky girl and as 0:02:16.031 --> 0:02:18.591 she got older, her and her cousin Cindy were always 0:02:18.631 --> 0:02:21.911 together every day. She told the inquest that Mona was 0:02:21.951 --> 0:02:24.791 a singer. Around twelve and thirteen, she wanted to sing 0:02:24.791 --> 0:02:27.391 in the talent quest because they used to have Aboriginal 0:02:27.431 --> 0:02:31.391 talent quests every year and everyone joined in. Mona loved singing. 0:02:31.471 --> 0:02:34.471 She said she wanted to be a singer, so she 0:02:34.591 --> 0:02:38.871 used to sing. And then Cindy's mother, Dawn Smith, also 0:02:38.991 --> 0:02:43.591 spoke about her daughter, telling the inquest about her favorite songs. 0:02:44.071 --> 0:02:46.031 One day, she was on a school excursion and came 0:02:46.071 --> 0:02:48.791 home with a picture of her playing the piano, and 0:02:48.831 --> 0:02:51.911 she wanted to learn how to play the piano. Dylan 0:02:51.991 --> 0:02:54.191 also said, and this is I'm quoting from the inquest, 0:02:54.431 --> 0:02:57.471 we would go down the rivers for swimming, fishing, and crayfishing. 0:02:57.951 --> 0:03:00.351 The kids and old people would play games like rounders, 0:03:00.351 --> 0:03:02.991 Skippy's high jump, and marbles. And every Sunday we would 0:03:02.991 --> 0:03:05.911 walk uptown to church. We used to take the children 0:03:05.951 --> 0:03:08.151 out to show them wealth, fruit and bush medicine too. 0:03:09.631 --> 0:03:12.351 She also talked about a love for singing from Cindy, 0:03:12.431 --> 0:03:15.231 although she was a bit more shy. She said she 0:03:15.351 --> 0:03:17.671 used to love taking her kids to the Talent Quest 0:03:17.991 --> 0:03:20.751 where they would perform. Cindy was always too shy to 0:03:20.751 --> 0:03:23.351 get up and sing, but she enjoyed going and watching 0:03:23.351 --> 0:03:27.071 the others. They were young, bright girls, the coroner said, 0:03:27.151 --> 0:03:30.231 sparkling with light and excitement. They had big hopes and 0:03:30.311 --> 0:03:33.631 dreams and so much to look forward to. But over 0:03:33.671 --> 0:03:36.991 the past thirty seven years. Mona and Cindy's family and 0:03:37.031 --> 0:03:40.271 the Aboriginal community in Burke had been devastated by what 0:03:40.431 --> 0:03:43.431 happened to them on the sixth of December nineteen eighty seven. 0:03:44.031 --> 0:03:46.831 It was only recently that the findings into that inquest 0:03:47.271 --> 0:03:51.871 were handed down, and warning to our listeners, the findings 0:03:51.991 --> 0:03:55.431 are very horrific. It tells the tale of what we 0:03:55.511 --> 0:03:58.151 know to be true, the racialized violence not only in 0:03:58.191 --> 0:04:03.271 towns like Burke, where white perpetrators target young Aboriginal girls, 0:04:03.991 --> 0:04:09.831 but also the devastating inefficiencies by the police, which sometimes 0:04:09.871 --> 0:04:13.711 are excused us for example, bad policing, But when you 0:04:13.791 --> 0:04:15.271 read the in quest, and what we're going to tell 0:04:15.311 --> 0:04:19.271 you today is they're very examples of the racial violence 0:04:19.311 --> 0:04:21.791 of policing. And we're going to go through this in 0:04:21.831 --> 0:04:25.151 quest today because I think it says so much about 0:04:25.191 --> 0:04:28.191 the issues that we're talking about through this podcast. But 0:04:28.271 --> 0:04:30.431 I just want us to remember as we tell you 0:04:30.511 --> 0:04:35.311 these really horrific, devastating details that first and foremost, it's 0:04:35.351 --> 0:04:39.871 the families who have been there fighting for Mona Listern Cindi, 0:04:40.071 --> 0:04:43.271 fighting for their memories, fighting for the truth to be told, 0:04:43.751 --> 0:04:47.311 and fighting for a conception of justice that they have 0:04:47.431 --> 0:04:51.231 been pushing for for nearly four decades now, now more 0:04:51.311 --> 0:04:54.071 than four our listeners, Can you tell us a bit 0:04:54.151 --> 0:04:58.351 about what happened that morning on the sixth of December 0:04:58.471 --> 0:05:00.071 nineteen eighty seven, So. 0:05:00.271 --> 0:05:05.871 The night prior, a man known around town, Alexander Ian Grant, 0:05:05.951 --> 0:05:10.471 who was forty at the time, was a known predator. 0:05:10.911 --> 0:05:15.431 He was often seen patrolling around town in his white 0:05:15.591 --> 0:05:21.071 highlucks looking for young Aboriginal girls. He'd often offer young 0:05:21.111 --> 0:05:26.111 Aboriginal girls vast quantities of alcohol. And it's important to 0:05:26.151 --> 0:05:31.831 remember that in a previous occasion, Cindy had done an 0:05:31.911 --> 0:05:36.711 excellent job of protecting another family member, another cousin, from 0:05:36.711 --> 0:05:41.031 this same man. But he was an itinerant worker. He 0:05:41.151 --> 0:05:45.111 was married and had lived in the town not very long, 0:05:45.671 --> 0:05:48.711 and he spent a lot of time buying alcohol and 0:05:48.751 --> 0:05:52.511 then going out to the reserve. And on the night, 0:05:52.831 --> 0:05:57.671 the girls had gone into town and then were making 0:05:57.711 --> 0:06:00.991 their way home when he picked them up in his 0:06:01.151 --> 0:06:07.631 Toyota highlucks intoxicated and had bought more alcohol which he 0:06:07.791 --> 0:06:11.671 plied the girls with. And then sometime later on that night, 0:06:11.911 --> 0:06:15.751 there was a horrific accident and the Toyota Highlarks rolled. 0:06:15.831 --> 0:06:19.591 There were skid marks nearly two hundred meters down the road, 0:06:20.511 --> 0:06:25.191 and tragically both the girls Mona, Lisa and Cindy were killed. 0:06:25.631 --> 0:06:31.191 Grant was largely uninjured. And so what the inquest first 0:06:31.231 --> 0:06:35.591 had to do was resolve what had happened. Now, we 0:06:35.591 --> 0:06:39.271 should explain that there was a police investigation, and we 0:06:39.311 --> 0:06:43.551 will come to that shortly. And mister Grant was eventually charged, 0:06:44.311 --> 0:06:48.031 but he was never convicted, and that's why the inquest 0:06:48.831 --> 0:06:52.671 that the family called for had to happen. Otherwise they 0:06:52.711 --> 0:06:55.351 were never going to get any answers, and it took 0:06:55.391 --> 0:06:59.031 them all these years before anyone would agree to give 0:06:59.071 --> 0:07:02.551 them that in quest to find out exactly what had 0:07:02.591 --> 0:07:03.951 happened on that night. 0:07:04.431 --> 0:07:07.071 So, mardon, there was a car crash involving this high 0:07:07.111 --> 0:07:09.351 loox what had happened afterwards? 0:07:09.791 --> 0:07:12.991 So it wasn't until early on in the morning. It 0:07:13.071 --> 0:07:17.191 was probably still dark, the light just coming up that 0:07:17.351 --> 0:07:23.071 passers by came across the crash site. And for our listeners, 0:07:23.191 --> 0:07:28.271 the following does contain some distressing material. The car was 0:07:28.751 --> 0:07:33.631 severely damaged and destroyed, and it obviously rolled, and tragically 0:07:33.751 --> 0:07:36.591 both of the young girls had been ejected from the 0:07:36.671 --> 0:07:41.711 vehicle during the accident. The first people on the scene 0:07:41.791 --> 0:07:46.991 noticed that both girls were clearly already deceased, and that 0:07:47.671 --> 0:07:52.831 Grant was heavily intoxicated and had made no effort whatsoever 0:07:53.551 --> 0:07:56.831 to assist the girls in any way. And in fact, 0:07:57.151 --> 0:08:00.951 there is the possibility, and the coroner found it most 0:08:01.151 --> 0:08:06.591 likely that even after the accident, Grant had sexually assaulted 0:08:06.751 --> 0:08:10.191 one of the girls. But these passes by were not 0:08:10.311 --> 0:08:13.831 exactly here to help. One of the passes by who'd 0:08:13.871 --> 0:08:18.431 stopped a mister Batty told Grant, and I quote, you 0:08:18.511 --> 0:08:23.151 have two dead gins here, mate. Mister Grant responded, no, no, 0:08:23.231 --> 0:08:26.791 they're all right, they've had too much to drink. Mister 0:08:26.831 --> 0:08:30.431 Baddy recalled. The male then became agitated and abusive. The 0:08:30.511 --> 0:08:34.471 male was intoxicated. Mister Baddy could smell alcohol, and there 0:08:34.471 --> 0:08:38.711 were bottles and cans around the area. Now, for those 0:08:38.751 --> 0:08:43.951 listeners overseas or in Australia who don't know, gin is 0:08:43.991 --> 0:08:48.431 perhaps the most violent, misogynistic term that anyone could use 0:08:48.631 --> 0:08:53.031 to describe an Aboriginal woman. The fact that both young 0:08:53.071 --> 0:08:57.471 girls were deceased and this first witness on the scene 0:08:57.551 --> 0:09:01.391 described them that way shows you the kind of racist 0:09:01.471 --> 0:09:05.871 attitudes that were all to prevalent in Burke then and 0:09:05.951 --> 0:09:10.471 remain a reality in this country today. Grant had clearly 0:09:10.711 --> 0:09:16.551 offered no assistance whatsoever to the girls, and the other 0:09:16.711 --> 0:09:21.631 passer by went to police to notify them to get 0:09:21.671 --> 0:09:26.271 someone to come out of there. But although one individual 0:09:26.391 --> 0:09:30.431 stayed at the scene, he soon left because Grant became 0:09:30.511 --> 0:09:31.871 aggressive and abusive. 0:09:32.431 --> 0:09:37.151 And Martin's exactly right in that racialized and really violent 0:09:37.231 --> 0:09:40.431 language of the us gins was used by one of 0:09:40.431 --> 0:09:43.151 the witnesses. And it should also be noted that this 0:09:43.231 --> 0:09:47.311 witness in particular had only provided a statement to police 0:09:47.591 --> 0:09:50.231 on the fifteenth of February twenty twenty three and then 0:09:50.311 --> 0:09:53.591 gave evidence at the inquest, and so that's thirty seven 0:09:53.671 --> 0:09:57.431 years afterwards. So that speaks to one of the deficiencies 0:09:57.511 --> 0:10:00.191 in the police investigation already, is that one of the 0:10:00.271 --> 0:10:04.671 key witnesses to what had happened, the first person other 0:10:04.751 --> 0:10:08.671 than Grant to arrive on the scene, had actually not 0:10:08.751 --> 0:10:11.511 even been asked for a statement by police until thirty 0:10:11.551 --> 0:10:17.031 seven years later. The family of Cindy and Mona Lisa 0:10:17.191 --> 0:10:19.991 also said, particularly the mothers said that the police never 0:10:20.031 --> 0:10:23.391 even told them about what had happened. They had actually 0:10:23.471 --> 0:10:25.871 been called by relatives to go up to the hospital 0:10:26.711 --> 0:10:31.071 to identify the two girls, and that was the first 0:10:31.111 --> 0:10:34.231 time they said the police had not even kept them 0:10:34.831 --> 0:10:38.071 updated or had never even told them about what had happened. 0:10:38.591 --> 0:10:41.511 And that speaks directly to what we're going to start 0:10:41.591 --> 0:10:50.111 unraveling today around the really horrific police reaction to the 0:10:50.151 --> 0:10:53.391 deaths of Mona, Lisa and Cindy. So Martin, how did 0:10:53.431 --> 0:10:54.791 the police respond first? 0:10:55.111 --> 0:10:58.511 So when the police arrived on the scene, it was 0:10:58.511 --> 0:11:01.991 fair to say they had no real regard for the 0:11:02.031 --> 0:11:06.071 girls either. Constable Mackenzie was the first person on the 0:11:06.151 --> 0:11:10.351 scene and initially that he was told by Grant that 0:11:10.471 --> 0:11:14.471 Grant was the man driving the vehicle. He admitted as much, 0:11:14.871 --> 0:11:19.951 but when the case was handed over to Detective Sergeant 0:11:20.031 --> 0:11:25.031 Peter Ashman, he claims that he asked Grant who was driving, 0:11:25.871 --> 0:11:30.511 and Grant claimed that Mona had been driving the vehicle, 0:11:31.071 --> 0:11:36.231 even though in his notebook, in his logs, in his diary, 0:11:36.591 --> 0:11:40.791 in his initial evidence, and his following evidence to the inquest, 0:11:40.951 --> 0:11:45.671 Mackenzie has always maintained that he told the detective that 0:11:45.711 --> 0:11:48.711 it was Grant who was driving and Grant admitted that 0:11:48.791 --> 0:11:53.031 he had, but Eshmand never questioned Grant. He simply took 0:11:53.151 --> 0:11:56.151 him at his word. A man who was found with 0:11:56.271 --> 0:11:59.031 two dead children by the side of the road, heavily 0:11:59.071 --> 0:12:04.311 intoxicated and abusive, and the coroner questioned him about this. 0:12:04.911 --> 0:12:07.751 She asked, did you then by the time the crime 0:12:07.791 --> 0:12:11.031 scene unit came, did you have any doubts about who 0:12:11.071 --> 0:12:15.031 the driver was? Answer? I didn't have any doubts. No. 0:12:16.111 --> 0:12:18.711 Grant told me one of the girls wanted to drive. 0:12:19.511 --> 0:12:25.751 Question you believed him? You accepted that answer? Yes? Question 0:12:26.231 --> 0:12:30.951 why answer from the detective? He told me what happened, 0:12:32.151 --> 0:12:38.431 and this would plague the horrific police investigation that detective 0:12:38.471 --> 0:12:42.871 Sergeant Pete Ashman would take Grant's word for everything he 0:12:42.951 --> 0:12:45.591 told him had happened that night. Even though Grant was 0:12:45.631 --> 0:12:49.551 a predator found with two deceased Aboriginal girls, he also 0:12:49.631 --> 0:12:53.151 did next to nothing to secure the crime scene. He 0:12:53.271 --> 0:12:56.671 himself took no photos of the crime scene. He did 0:12:56.751 --> 0:13:00.591 no real investigation into what had led up to the 0:13:00.671 --> 0:13:05.111 incident or any of the other contributing factors. Mackenzie, it 0:13:05.151 --> 0:13:08.191 has to be said, did take photos and did draw 0:13:08.951 --> 0:13:12.831 a map of the crime scene. But by his own admission, 0:13:12.831 --> 0:13:16.231 he was a very inexperienced police officer and this was 0:13:16.271 --> 0:13:20.431 not really his task. And so for all these years 0:13:20.471 --> 0:13:22.831 it is his work that has had to be relied 0:13:22.911 --> 0:13:26.471 upon to piece things together, because Eshmund did such a 0:13:26.591 --> 0:13:27.311 terrible job. 0:13:27.671 --> 0:13:29.711 And at this point, the fact that the police have 0:13:29.871 --> 0:13:33.791 not really contacted the family to get statements became quite important, 0:13:33.831 --> 0:13:35.911 didn't it, Martin, Because it's not only just that the 0:13:35.951 --> 0:13:41.431 police have ultimately believed without questioning the white man's version 0:13:41.431 --> 0:13:44.871 of events. They didn't take into account that Mona couldn't 0:13:44.911 --> 0:13:47.591 even drive a manual car, because the Hilux was a manimal. 0:13:48.071 --> 0:13:51.271 Yeah, And so this became a very important part as 0:13:51.311 --> 0:13:56.831 well of the investigation, which Mona's family, her mother, her brothers, 0:13:56.871 --> 0:13:59.991 they could all tell the police very easily that there 0:14:00.031 --> 0:14:03.991 was no way Mona could have driven a manual vs vehicle, 0:14:04.271 --> 0:14:09.351 And in fact, crash investigators who had analyzed the information 0:14:10.231 --> 0:14:13.151 both a few years later and then more recently for 0:14:13.191 --> 0:14:17.351 the inquest, basically found there's no way Mona could have 0:14:17.431 --> 0:14:22.791 been driving. It was a heavily ladened early model Toyota Highlux. 0:14:22.911 --> 0:14:28.831 It was a manual. Her family had absolutely told police 0:14:28.991 --> 0:14:31.631 that Mona had only ever driven a car once and 0:14:31.671 --> 0:14:35.991 it was an automatic, And as the crash scene investigators 0:14:36.111 --> 0:14:40.471 years later would explain, such a heavily laden vehicle that 0:14:40.591 --> 0:14:44.631 was full of tools and other equipment would have required 0:14:44.831 --> 0:14:48.311 an extensive amount of manual gear changes to get it 0:14:48.391 --> 0:14:51.751 up and going and then to maintain the speed. And 0:14:51.791 --> 0:14:56.631 the vehicle was found more than thirty kilometers outside of Burke, 0:14:56.871 --> 0:15:01.351 So there's just no way that Mona was driving. And 0:15:01.431 --> 0:15:07.071 yet again the coron questioned Eshman about this, about the 0:15:07.071 --> 0:15:10.631 fact that he was a detective, and that why would 0:15:10.631 --> 0:15:15.391 he just accept as a detective at face value mister 0:15:15.471 --> 0:15:19.431 Grant's story, And we see some of Eshman's racism come 0:15:19.511 --> 0:15:23.711 through immediately. He said, it wouldn't be unusual for young kids, 0:15:23.951 --> 0:15:28.751 unlicensed drivers to be driving cars. There's nothing unusual about that, 0:15:29.591 --> 0:15:33.351 But he never checked. This was a pure assumption based 0:15:33.391 --> 0:15:36.511 on the fact that the girls were Aboriginal. The coroner 0:15:36.551 --> 0:15:39.951 then asked a further question, but in case the allegation 0:15:40.191 --> 0:15:42.871 was that it was an unlicensed teenage girl driving a 0:15:42.951 --> 0:15:46.431 manual utility, do you think you should have made some 0:15:46.631 --> 0:15:49.791 inquiries at the time about whether or not either of 0:15:49.831 --> 0:15:55.911 these girls could drive a manual utility. Answer no. Question 0:15:56.151 --> 0:15:59.071 you don't think that was a legitimate line of inquiry? 0:15:59.911 --> 0:16:04.311 Answer no. And for the record, the coroner note and 0:16:04.351 --> 0:16:08.151 I quote, I was troubled by this evidence from mister Eshmond. 0:16:08.471 --> 0:16:12.151 Not only had he, as the senior officer, not bothered 0:16:12.191 --> 0:16:14.791 to go to the homes of the girls and inform 0:16:14.951 --> 0:16:18.551 their families of their tragic passing. He had no care 0:16:18.591 --> 0:16:21.831 in the world, despite being a detective sergeant of solving 0:16:21.871 --> 0:16:26.271 this crime, of doing any work whatsoever that would get 0:16:26.311 --> 0:16:29.471 to the bottom of what happened. He simply took Grant's 0:16:29.471 --> 0:16:32.391 word for it and was done with it. His callous 0:16:32.631 --> 0:16:37.551 disregard was as racist as that of the first person 0:16:37.631 --> 0:16:40.231 to turn up on the scene who called the girl's gins, 0:16:40.911 --> 0:16:44.791 and as racist as Grant's behavior of applying young Aboriginal 0:16:44.831 --> 0:16:50.631 girls with alcohol. And then there was a further problem. 0:16:50.911 --> 0:16:54.911 Any crash scene investigator will tell you that measurements need 0:16:54.951 --> 0:16:58.391 to be taken. This was never done. There should have 0:16:58.431 --> 0:17:01.311 been markers laid out on the road as to where 0:17:01.351 --> 0:17:05.951 the first skid marks occurred, where other debris was found, 0:17:06.111 --> 0:17:09.191 and where the vehicle ultimately came to a stop. This 0:17:09.351 --> 0:17:12.991 was not done. There should have been markers place by 0:17:13.031 --> 0:17:15.151 the side of the road where the girls were found. 0:17:15.471 --> 0:17:20.591 This was not done. Nothing was done as per police 0:17:21.191 --> 0:17:24.031 instructions for what they are supposed to do when they 0:17:24.071 --> 0:17:27.991 come to a crime scene. And worst of all, the 0:17:28.111 --> 0:17:32.271 vehicle was never properly taken into custody. It was towed 0:17:32.351 --> 0:17:35.911 back into Burke and then the chain of custody was 0:17:35.991 --> 0:17:40.551 completely lost and the vehicle would end up at mister 0:17:40.671 --> 0:17:42.711 Grant's former workplace. 0:18:00.991 --> 0:18:04.031 And that's really important, isn't It might internote that the 0:18:04.391 --> 0:18:08.231 car has never been probably examined, including a steering wheel, 0:18:08.271 --> 0:18:11.911 and this just is so it's not an aberration. It 0:18:11.991 --> 0:18:14.591 happens in a lot of cases we've looked at, particularly 0:18:14.631 --> 0:18:21.671 around this time, where key evidence, for example cars or 0:18:21.751 --> 0:18:26.671 key evidence that could indicate the guilt of the accused 0:18:27.271 --> 0:18:30.711 is handed back to the accused. So this isn't something 0:18:30.751 --> 0:18:33.471 that is even an aberration in a lot of the 0:18:33.511 --> 0:18:37.231 investigations that we've looked at. It's something that happens quite 0:18:37.231 --> 0:18:39.751 a lot, and it seemed to happen in this case 0:18:39.791 --> 0:18:43.631 as well, where they're not even looking at what has 0:18:43.711 --> 0:18:47.391 happened and the scene as even a crime. And that's 0:18:47.551 --> 0:18:51.071 shown by the fact that they so readily believe that 0:18:51.191 --> 0:18:55.551 Mona is responsible for the traffic accident, and then that 0:18:55.791 --> 0:18:58.671 nothing has happened afterwards, no other crime has taken place. 0:18:58.951 --> 0:19:01.591 Yeah, and I think this was something that stood out 0:19:01.671 --> 0:19:07.391 to senior sergeant from Sydney who was involved in this 0:19:07.551 --> 0:19:11.591 sort of investigation in Sydney and had been out to 0:19:11.711 --> 0:19:15.031 other crime scenes around the state, and he was troubled 0:19:15.031 --> 0:19:19.311 by just a memory of hearing about that investigation, to 0:19:19.391 --> 0:19:23.551 the point that he had his inspector called the Burke 0:19:23.671 --> 0:19:28.431 Police station and speak to the officer in charge out 0:19:28.431 --> 0:19:33.071 at Burke. And this was the response when a senior 0:19:33.111 --> 0:19:37.471 police officer from Sydney with serious concerns a man had 0:19:37.471 --> 0:19:40.911 got away with murder rang Burke. This is the response 0:19:41.071 --> 0:19:44.431 by the head of Burke Police over the telephone. Well, 0:19:44.471 --> 0:19:46.751 as far as I'm concerned, you can hop in your 0:19:46.831 --> 0:19:49.951 car and piss off back to Sydney, because my detectives 0:19:49.991 --> 0:19:53.351 did this job and I'm content with what they did. Now. 0:19:53.511 --> 0:19:57.151 The fact that he would say this means either he 0:19:57.271 --> 0:20:00.911 had clearly not reviewed the work of his detectives, who 0:20:00.911 --> 0:20:05.031 had done no work whatsoever he had, and he was 0:20:05.111 --> 0:20:10.631 satisfied that what they'd done nothing was okay, and this 0:20:10.671 --> 0:20:14.631 would come out even further because the police officer, who 0:20:15.431 --> 0:20:20.031 had raised doubts about the investigation, decided not to leave 0:20:20.071 --> 0:20:23.671 it there. He asked a colleague to go out and 0:20:23.751 --> 0:20:28.351 locate the vehicle, and the vehicle couldn't be found at 0:20:28.391 --> 0:20:31.031 the police station where it should have been being held 0:20:31.071 --> 0:20:35.751 as evidence. Instead, it was that we wore electrics where 0:20:35.911 --> 0:20:40.631 a man had purchased the vehicle from Grant. Grant had 0:20:40.671 --> 0:20:44.471 been allowed to take ownership of the vehicle, the potential 0:20:44.591 --> 0:20:48.231 murder weapon and key piece of evidence in this case, 0:20:48.751 --> 0:20:52.951 and sell it. He owned the business mister Grant where 0:20:52.991 --> 0:20:58.871 the vehicle had been stored major metals excavations until he'd 0:20:58.911 --> 0:21:02.391 sold the vehicle. But when mister Hurle purchased the vehicle, 0:21:03.151 --> 0:21:07.751 crucial key pieces of the Highlarks had been removed, one 0:21:07.791 --> 0:21:10.791 of which was the steering wheel, which would have allowed 0:21:10.871 --> 0:21:15.271 police had they bothered, to dust it for fingerprints. And 0:21:15.311 --> 0:21:19.071 if Mona's fingerprints were not on that steering wheel, clearly 0:21:19.151 --> 0:21:22.031 Grant was lying and she could never have been driving it. 0:21:22.271 --> 0:21:26.191 Grant obviously knew this and took the steering wheel from 0:21:26.271 --> 0:21:29.791 the vehicle. The fact that this was allowed to happen 0:21:30.231 --> 0:21:33.831 just shows the level of care the police had. It 0:21:34.031 --> 0:21:37.231 is criminal that they were able to do this and 0:21:37.311 --> 0:21:40.511 get away with it and be backed up and defended 0:21:41.191 --> 0:21:45.031 for all these years by their most senior colleagues. 0:21:45.351 --> 0:21:48.471 And this color's disregard to evidence and to securing the 0:21:48.511 --> 0:21:52.871 crime scene and the severe deficiencies in the police investigation 0:21:53.831 --> 0:21:57.751 were really highlighting the racialized nature of the way police 0:21:57.831 --> 0:22:02.071 were responding to this because it was about two Aboriginal 0:22:02.391 --> 0:22:04.911 girls who had lost their lives and this is what 0:22:05.031 --> 0:22:08.191 came out of the inquest. As an example of this 0:22:08.231 --> 0:22:12.911 systemic racism is that Mona in Cidy's family had always 0:22:13.111 --> 0:22:17.711 said that they felt severely discriminated against because they were Aboriginal, 0:22:17.751 --> 0:22:20.351 and this is something that a lot of family, I 0:22:20.351 --> 0:22:24.871 mean majority of Aboriginal families feel when dealing with police. 0:22:25.231 --> 0:22:27.271 But we have to remember that this is a time 0:22:27.391 --> 0:22:30.431 when the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Death in Custodies. The 0:22:30.511 --> 0:22:34.471 momentum was building for that the death in custody of 0:22:34.551 --> 0:22:37.591 Lloyd Berney out at Rawarna, which isn't far from Burke, 0:22:37.951 --> 0:22:41.351 and also David Gundy in Sydney, and this affected the 0:22:41.391 --> 0:22:44.151 way that the police was responding to the community. So 0:22:44.191 --> 0:22:46.991 there was one constable who spoke about the reason that 0:22:47.071 --> 0:22:49.791 he even attended the site of the crash was too 0:22:49.951 --> 0:22:53.591 in his words, keep the peace. He said, the main 0:22:53.671 --> 0:22:56.471 aim was to go down there and assist Constable Mackenzie 0:22:56.471 --> 0:22:58.231 being the fact that it must have we must have 0:22:58.271 --> 0:23:00.071 been told that there were two Aboriginal girls that had 0:23:00.111 --> 0:23:02.751 been killed. That was part of the reason we went. 0:23:03.231 --> 0:23:05.671 And I've had the scenario before where this sort of 0:23:05.711 --> 0:23:08.671 thing where Aboriginal people had been injured and then everyone 0:23:08.671 --> 0:23:11.471 finds out about it and everyone swarms it or swarms 0:23:11.471 --> 0:23:14.031 this in and I just didn't want twenty or thirty 0:23:14.071 --> 0:23:17.191 Aboriginal people there upset, and Ken had to deal with 0:23:17.231 --> 0:23:20.351 it by himself. He claimed that it wasn't a racist 0:23:20.351 --> 0:23:23.231 thing to do. This was severely racialized. This meant that 0:23:23.311 --> 0:23:28.191 they considered it a key concern that Aboriginal people would 0:23:28.231 --> 0:23:32.031 come and in effect riot or swarm the scene, which 0:23:32.071 --> 0:23:35.471 is horrific. You know, that is incredibly insensitive to the 0:23:35.511 --> 0:23:39.631 families and the community, and it affected the way that 0:23:39.711 --> 0:23:43.111 they were dealing with the family. They couldn't see this 0:23:43.191 --> 0:23:46.271 as the tragedy it was. Instead, it almost became an 0:23:46.311 --> 0:23:49.271 inconvenience to them, but it has really affected the way 0:23:49.311 --> 0:23:52.871 that this case has been born out over the years. 0:23:53.111 --> 0:23:57.271 Mardin because the family have been requesting an inquest for 0:23:57.311 --> 0:24:00.191 a very long time, but they've been knocked back before. 0:24:00.591 --> 0:24:03.671 One thing that has absolutely struck me a bad but 0:24:04.551 --> 0:24:07.951 the death of Mona, Lisa and Cindy, is the fact 0:24:08.031 --> 0:24:11.511 that the family has never given up. I don't think 0:24:11.551 --> 0:24:16.151 I've ever seen an example of a large family and 0:24:16.231 --> 0:24:23.271 community who have campaigned for so long, despite the disgraceful 0:24:23.271 --> 0:24:28.511 investigation by police, despite the fact that Grant was acquitted 0:24:28.631 --> 0:24:33.551 at a completely botched trial, despite all of the knockbacks, 0:24:33.631 --> 0:24:39.151 they have never stopped, and thirty three years after, in 0:24:39.231 --> 0:24:42.471 March twenty twenty, via their lawyer, they had written to 0:24:42.511 --> 0:24:46.271 the Commissioner of Police, Mick Fuller, and asked for an 0:24:46.311 --> 0:24:50.631 investigation and an inquest. This is not a lot to 0:24:50.751 --> 0:24:54.351 ask when inquests are such a standard part of our 0:24:54.471 --> 0:24:59.191 legal system and understanding why people have passed away. But Fuller, 0:24:59.751 --> 0:25:03.311 like his counterparts in the eighties, had no intention of 0:25:03.311 --> 0:25:08.191 grand that family's request. He said the brief of evidence 0:25:08.231 --> 0:25:12.231 has been subject to thorough independent reviews in both two 0:25:12.271 --> 0:25:16.791 thousand and four and twenty eighteen, both reviews found that 0:25:16.831 --> 0:25:22.671 an adequate investigation was conducted. How on earth could anyone 0:25:22.991 --> 0:25:27.231 in their bright mind claim that. He also noted that 0:25:27.271 --> 0:25:31.871 the accused, Alexander Ian Grant, had been discharged by a 0:25:31.951 --> 0:25:36.751 jury and was deceased, and that further investigation is not 0:25:36.911 --> 0:25:40.471 planned by police, and he said it was for this 0:25:40.631 --> 0:25:43.511 reason that I quote, I do not believe an inquest 0:25:43.511 --> 0:25:46.991 into the deaths of Jacina and Mona Lisa will adduce 0:25:47.151 --> 0:25:50.671 new or additional information. And as we know from what 0:25:50.791 --> 0:25:54.471 came out of the inquest that was wrong. Why isn't 0:25:54.511 --> 0:25:57.791 Fuller made to answer? This is a man who now 0:25:58.191 --> 0:26:02.591 cops a fortune in pension for being our police commissioner, 0:26:02.871 --> 0:26:07.191 who couldn't other to just ask for an inquest? His counterpart, 0:26:07.351 --> 0:26:12.151 the Attorney General, Liberal Mark Speakman, was written to by 0:26:12.271 --> 0:26:15.791 George Newhouse of the National Justice Project on behalf of 0:26:15.831 --> 0:26:19.911 the family, and he finally received a reply on the 0:26:19.991 --> 0:26:24.391 seventh of March twenty twenty two, and the Attorney General 0:26:24.431 --> 0:26:27.391 advised that he too had decided not to direct a 0:26:27.471 --> 0:26:32.311 coronial inquest, and I quote a further coronial inquest would 0:26:32.351 --> 0:26:35.831 not be capable of finding any new information not already 0:26:35.911 --> 0:26:40.831