WEBVTT - Tired? Learn to get deliberately better sleep 😴 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:08.720 Good everyone, Sam here. I am back and great to 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:11.319 be back. I mean this sincerely. I think as much 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:13.520 on New York was incredible, amazing. I'm not saying New 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:15.760 York was terrible by any stretch. It was great. But 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.640 I really do love coming home and it sometimes takes 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:22.280 an overseas trip for us to realize how lucky we 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:24.800 are to have such a beautiful country here and a 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.400 beautiful life here in Australia. I've been thinking about that 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:29.160 a lot over the last sort of twenty four hours 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:31.360 since I've been back, literally only been back for thirty 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.320 six hours. So you forgive me if I'm a little 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:35.920 bit a little bit sleepy, and we'll talk about that 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:37.440 a little bit more because we are going to talk 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:42.400 sleep today with someone who is an absolute sleep expert, 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:46.239 has worked one on one with clients as a psychologist 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.800 in the specific sleep field for nearly a decade, So 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:50.519 match sure you hang around for that could be a 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:52.639 total life changer if that is an area you struggling. 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.080 Then We've got a really interesting question from one of 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:56.080 our Woodlife listeners. 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.640 My question is around getting back into a healthy routine 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:04.400 after the loss of people you love. I've recently lost 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:06.639 both my parents within the space a couple of months, 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:11.200 and I'm struggling to get back into a healthy routine 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.040 of eating and fitness, even though that's something I've always 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.399 enjoyed doing. Just wondering if you have any suggestions on 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.000 what I can do to help get that back on track. 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:22.559 That's all coming up next. 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:40.759 Welcome back to the WOODLFE. 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:47.760 The timing couldn't be better because I've just done thirty 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.240 nine hour flight back from the US. I was thirty 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:53.440 nine hours total travel, not on the plane, but total 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.480 travel with the levy. So I'm a little bit weary. 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.720 But we've got just the guest to fix that. Doctor 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:03.000 day Ashworth is a clinical psychologist. He's done a lot 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:04.800 of work in the sleep space. In fact, he works 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:09.040 specifically with sleep clients for over eight years, and he's 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:13.560 just released a book called Deliberately Better Sleep. Damon. Welcome 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:15.760 to the WOODLFE and thanks for joining us, and hopefully 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.480 I don't not off. Thanks for having me on snares. 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:20.880 My wife and I the one thing we fight about 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.160 is not money. It's not about the kids, it's not 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.239 about I don't know, not spending enough time with each other. 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:32.880 It is about sleep. Because we genuinely argue about the 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.720 fact that she doesn't get enough sleep, and I say 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.240 to her, you need to sleep better and our relationship 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.480 be better too, because it's not only her not getting 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:44.200 enough sleep. We're mismatching. Was it a disconnecting I'm trying 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:45.480 to go to a bed a bit earlier and she 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:49.639 doesn't want to. And how many people struggle with sleep? 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:51.919 And do you see that with couples? 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.840 Yeah, definitely. I think it's probably about thirty percent of 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.240 people struggle with sleep on any given night, right, So 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:00.760 it really can. Yeah, it can impact a lot of people. 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.680 And there's something called chronotypes, which is someone's body clock 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:10.520 or preference, and it's pretty understandable that people have different preferences. 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:10.720 Yea. 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:12.720 You know, some people might be more of a morning person, 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.679 some people might be an evening person. And generally that's 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:17.480 not the first thing that we're looking at when we're 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:18.359 choosing a partner. 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.320 Yeah, that wasn't a question I asked on The Bachelor. 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.880 What's sleep kind of type? It's something you do find 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.880 out once you're in the relationship. You know, we've got 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:29.200 three young kids, so sleep's been very disrupted for the 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:33.520 last five years. Literally almost. Yes, she is nocturnal and 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:35.400 likes to go a bit late, but she's still getting 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:36.520 up early. Okay. 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.440 So would you say, is it is because of her 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.760 body clock type or she just doesn't prioritize. 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.400 She'd say it is. I've never sort of tested that theory. 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:48.080 But I mean, there's what chronotype you are, and then 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.200 there's the reality of your life situation too, and I 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.600 mean she's just not getting enough. How much is the 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.040 magic number? I'd love to know what your what your 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:56.800 magic number is. 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.600 I'd say there probably isn't a magic right, Okay, Okay, 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.680 we're looking at the recommendations from the government level. People 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.320 will say anywhere between seven to nine hours is healthy 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.680 amount for an adult. But I would say each person 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.320 is slightly different. So there are some people if they 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:12.320 get by on five or six hours a night, that's 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.680 enough for them, and then other people might need that 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:16.480 nine to ten hours a night, So it can vary 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:17.360 from person to person. 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:21.560 So my concern is the people that are saying they 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.839 only need inverted commas five to six, how do they 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.599 know that that's actually true? And are there many of 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:31.120 them in your opinion that actually they do need more, 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:32.919 but they sort of hide behind set of saying that 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.159 I won't mention my wife one more time after this, 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:39.600 I promise, she tells me, I'm fine. I know her 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.520 very well. I can see that she's tired, probably more 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.760 mentally than physically, you know, like she's forgetting things and 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:50.080 she's I can see that it's definitely impacting her. 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:53.400 I think that's the key thing what you're talking about there, 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.960 with the impact. If someone is getting six hours of 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:57.920 sleep at night, and they're sleeping really well, and they're 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.160 waking up refreshed, and they're feeling great during the day, 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.400 maybe they don't need more, right, But if they are 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.680 finding it hard to pay attention and work, or they're 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:07.560 finding it hard to do all the things that they 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:09.240 want to do in their life, to exercise as much 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.680 as they'd like or eat healthy, then there's probably a 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.240 something that they're not sleeping as much, and by increasing 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:15.920 a little bit more over the next week, see half 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.000 an hour at night, they might notice that they start 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:18.800 to feel a lot better. 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:21.800 Yeah, so that's good advice, isn't it. Don't you don't 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.719 have to jump to eight just for a month, get 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.240 half an hour extra night. See if it does make 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.000 a positive impact and then you know, maybe go again 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:33.720 or find the sweet spot for you. I really liked that. 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.280 I saw a great quote on social media the other 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:38.640 day and it was, you know, there's all of this 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:43.360 ice bath and infrared sauna stuff going on, and it 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:47.880 was someone who I really admire on social media, super 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.239 smart guy that I follow, and he's like, got nothing 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:55.760 against infrared saunas and ice baths, but the amount of 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.440 dickheads that are fixating on these things and they just 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.320 don't get an sleep and they're they're not doing the 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.440 eighty percent and they're fixating on the two percenters of 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:07.159 the three percent is like, this is going to be 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:11.560 the savior to all of their recovery and recuperation and 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.680 mental sharpness and all this kind of stuff. He was 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:16.760 just saying, you've got to go back to basics. 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:17.200 Yeah. 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:21.040 I read Outlive by doctor Peter Tire. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.240 and he said there's really only five things we need 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.360 to think about, and the fifth one he didn't even 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.240 go into. So the fifth one, there's certain supplements that 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:30.599 you can take, but the main four of the pillars 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:34.440 of health, which is exercise, nutrition, and sleep, they're the three, 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:36.960 and then the fourth is emotional health. And it really 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.800 does bring it back to unless you're doing these basics right, 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.880 then you don't necessarily want to focus on that extra 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:43.680 one to two percent. 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:47.279 Yeah. I like that. So we've spoken about the number 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:51.479 and that can vary. Your book is called Deliberately Better 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.880 Sleep because it's not just about the amount, it's about 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:59.200 the quality. What are some tips from your book or 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.800 from all of this experience you've had working with people 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:03.960 to help improve the quality of your sleep that you 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.160 think are the I guess, the best bang for your 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.000 buck bits of advice that you give people. Yeah. 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:13.440 I think it's about understanding what leads to sleep difficulties 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:14.360 and what we can do about it. 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:14.680 Yep. 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:17.320 So I do bring it back to the underlying mechanisms. 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:19.400 And not a lot of people that talk about sleep 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:20.680 necessarily talk about these things. 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:22.360 Okay, So explain that a little bit. Yeah. 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:24.120 So they'll say what we need to do, but they 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:25.760 won't necessarily say why. 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:27.239 Okay, So I'll. 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.640 Talk to people about sleep pressure and how it's important 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:31.240 to make sure that that's high enough when we go 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:32.000 to bed at night time. 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:33.120 So what does that mean? 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.120 Explain that to that sleep pressure is a homeostatic drive 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.000 so it's something that builds up in our brain. It's 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:41.000 a dentisceine and essentially the longer we're awake for the 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.240 higher that pressure gets. So we want it to be 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:44.880 nice and high when we go to bed at night. 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:47.920 And if someone needs eight hours of sleep, ideally we 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:49.720 want them to be out of bed for about fifteen 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.240 and a half hours at least, right. 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.120 So you can go to bed too early and you 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.760 can not build that pressure up enough so that when 0:07:57.800 --> 0:07:59.520 you go to bed you're not tired enough to get 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:01.360 a quality not sleep. 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.440 Yeah, and that can be especially problematic on say a Sunday, 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:07.320 in that someone goes out late Saturday night, they sleep 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:09.960 in till say eleven a m. Sunday, and then they 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.000 try to go to bed at nine nine pm that night. 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:13.840 That pressure is just not going to be high enough. 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:15.640 And that would bring to the second point, which is 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.480 around circadian rhythms or body clock yep, in that the 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:20.440 more consistent our sleep is from day to day, the 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:22.760 better it's going to be. And if we're going to 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:24.720 bed at the right times for ourselves as better as well. 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:27.400 So you've just come back from New York, that's going 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:29.680 to produce jet lag, which is essentially when our body 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:31.960 clock or our circadian rhythms out of line with the 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:32.920 environment that we're in. 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:35.120 Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. Yesterday I was telling you when 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:38.760 half final wasn't today, and hit me at I thought 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:39.440 I'd baiting it. 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:41.560 I was wearing a real hero for having my chairs. 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.240 I'm I'm fine, I'm back at work, and then today 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.080 my leads feel about one hundred kilos ech. So, yeah, 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:49.560 you're timing. You couldn't be better with that one. It 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.320 really has got me. If people are feeling like their 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.480 pressure isn't high enough, what should they do? 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.000 Well, it could be just making sure that they're up 0:08:58.120 --> 0:08:59.520 enough time during the day. 0:08:59.480 --> 0:08:59.680 Yeah. 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.080 I think a good night sleep does start from the 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.280 morning before, right, you know, if you want to sleep 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.439 at say ten pm, then definitely try not to sleep 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.040 in much later than say six or seven that morning. Well, 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:11.120 ensure that you're able to have. 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.720 Yeah, there's going to be a carryover from the day before. Yeah. 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.680 And what about exercise and actually physically wearing yourself out. 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:18.800 Yeah, that can increase our pressure a little bit too. 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.880 But for someone if they had insomnia, I wouldn't say 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:23.520 go out and exercise four hours in the day, and 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.079 I think you sleep problems abound, that's definitely, But it's 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:29.360 about getting into that consistent routine. If we're exercising regularly, 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.160 we are going to sleep better over time. 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.679 Okay, so we've got pressure getting it as high as 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.960 we can for our head hits the pillow. Yeah, Cicadian rhythm, 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.439 nice consistency. Yeah, probably get little asterix next to the 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:42.440 jet lag. What else should people be doing? 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.720 Yeah, So in terms of the Cicadian rhythm, I think 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:47.120 getting some morning sunlight can be really good. Oh okay, yeah, 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.280 so even twenty minutes of sunlight in those first few 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.199 hours is going to help you wake up for the 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:53.000 day as well as help you feel tired at the 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.920 right times at nighttime. And then the third is all 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:59.599 about arousal. So often, especially with people with insomnia, the 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:01.880 main f actors house stress. They are how much they 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.280 can't calm down their body or switch off the mind. 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:07.880 So it's doing things to wind down before bed, but 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.600 also doing things to manage stress during the day. And 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:12.520 then if they're in bed and they're getting stressed out, 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.280 what can they focus on or what can they do 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:15.160 to keep that low? 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:17.840 So I promised I wouldn't bring my wife up again, 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.400 but I'm going to. She likes to be busy, she 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.920 likes to be active, she likes to be doing things. 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:32.520 But I give advice like hallroom, darkroom, no screens and phones, 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:39.480 you know, let's wind down properly. She gets almost tense 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.800 by the thought of all of those things. And so 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:50.080 her argument to me, and probably pretty fair, is that 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:54.040 doesn't relax me. In fact, it does the opposite. So 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.880 she'll say to me, let's watch some crappy series on 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.560 Netflix or whatever. She falls asleep on my chest in 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.280 about four seconds. What are your thoughts on that? 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.439 Yeah, I think you're spot on. So arousal plays a 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.720 huge impact on our sleep, and if we're too stressed 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:09.400 out or our mind's too active, we're not going to 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.080 sleep well. And so whatever we can do to lower it, 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.400 it doesn't matter what it is. If it works for 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.320 that person, then stick with that. Yeah, okay, And so 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.560 it might be that meditation helps some people, but for 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.079 others it does stress them out or it makes it worse. 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:24.120 And if it does that, then I wouldn't recommend that 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:25.280 as a strategy for them. 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.000 Yeah, I've been a little bit too rigid. I think 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.400 what about going to bed too close to exercise? I mean, 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.400 is that something that does spike arousal for a lot 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:36.560 of people and they don't have the proper wine down. 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.640 So if we're again thinking in terms of what's ideal, 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.240 we'd probably not want to do too much to exercise 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:44.839 in that last two to three hours before bed. 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:45.079 Yeah. 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.360 Okay, there are some more recent studies that's safe. For 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:49.600 some people it doesn't matter so much, and that they're 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.400 able to exercise pretty close to bedtime, it's still sleep 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:54.840 pretty well. But for the average person, I'd say if 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.240 they're trying to sleep at ten thirty, if they can 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.720 stop by seven thirty or eight, then it's not going 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:01.680 to have too much of a negative impact and it 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:03.319 should be more of a net positive yea. 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.959 And what about food digestion and eating or snacking too 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:07.760 close to bedtill? 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.920 Yeah, I do think that is important. I have an 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.679 or ring which tracks a lot of different variables from 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.080 my health, and what I've noticed is on those nights 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.360 where I eat a heavy meal, especially too late or 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.600 too close to bedtime, my resting heart rate is high 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:23.800 for quite a while even after I fall in asleep. 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:24.680 Interesting. 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:26.880 Yeah, so probably about a three hour window for that 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:28.599 would be ideal as well. So if we're going to 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:30.319 about eleven to stop by eight. 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.760 Yeah, I like that. What about these tools, these sleep 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.600 feedback tools like the or Ring the Whoop? I don't 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:39.880 really I can't think of others by name off the 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.200 top of my head, but they're two very popular ones. 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:45.480 What is your advice on those for people? Would you 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.360 recommend either of those or both of those? 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.200 I would say it depends. I love them both a 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.320 fit bit and or and I look at the data 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:54.960 and I find that it helps me to look after 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.720 myself and for people, if it does that for them, 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:00.520 it's great. If people feel like they're not getting any 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:02.199 sleep at all, it could be really good for them 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.640 to use one of those as well and to notice 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:06.360 that maybe they're getting a little bit more sleep than 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.800 it feels like. Yeah, but it can be sometimes the 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.080 opposite in that it shows that they're waking a little 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.120 bit more than what they think, and that can produce 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:15.240 more anxiety for people. 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.480 Yeah. That's a really good answer, isn't it. Because if 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:22.400 you infatuate or fixate on the data and it's an 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.920 unhealthy obsession, then you can really get in your head 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:27.360 and you can start to overthinking. 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.640 What about alcohol, I would say it has a much 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.080 more negative impact than most people would realize. 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:35.840 Well, we almost, we must tell ourselves it helps almost. 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:37.719 I have a nice glass of red and I'll put 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:39.959 me or I'll have a little you know, I'll have 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.600 a little nightcap or whatever. You know, we use terms 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:46.320 like that, and you might fall asleep more easily, but 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.600 you don't you don't know the quality of your sleep 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:50.240 when you're in it. 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:52.360 I've definitely noticed that with the trackers that I use 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:56.000 for myself as well, that it increases the resting heart rate, 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.959 It decreases our heart rate variability. It definitely lowers those recoveries. 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:01.839 Yeah, okay, so they're the two. 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:03.800 There are two sort of factors that we look at, 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.080 and it doesn't have to be much. It can even 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.640 just be two drinks and it will lower that recovery 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:12.040 score for the next day. What about napping, I would 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:16.280 say napping is good, right, with some limitations. Okay, so 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:18.760 I do think there's a big difference between say a 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:22.840 twenty minute pound ap and two hours, yeah, and napping 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.160 for four hours during the day, which is really just 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:27.760 spending too long in bed. Yeah, and with the power 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:30.680 app if it means that you wake up refreshed after it, 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.280 and it means that you're able to get through the 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:34.440 rest of the day better, and then you're still able 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.440 to sleep pretty well that night because it shouldn't impact 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:37.640 your night's sleep too much. 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:39.520 That's great. I mean, as soon as I asked the question, 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:41.840 I was thinking back to the pressure point that you 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:45.040 brought up. You know, if you do nap for too long, 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.760 surely that's going to have pulled your pressure down if 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.080 you're still going well, I normally get a bed at ten. 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:51.800 I stuck a two hour napy and I'm still going 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.720 to try to get a bet at ten. Let's say 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.840 we're tossing and turning and we're not getting into good 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.800 quality sleep at all. You know, we might be in 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:02.680 bed for four or five hours, but we've never really 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:04.560 got into good quality sleep at all. And that's happening 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.720 night after night after night. What actually happens to our 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.640 bodies and brains. From a physiological perspective, I do think it. 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:15.640 Just puts a lot more pressure on our immune system. 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.360 I think we're more likely to get sick over time. 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.520 And there is some more recent data that's even saying 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:23.560 that if you have long term problems, it can lead 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:25.040 to increased risk of Alzheimer's. 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:26.040 Yeah. 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:28.840 So I know that there are those health complications, but 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.960 I do think it's important to know that there's extremes. 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.080 So if you're sleeping somewhere between say five and eight hours, 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.160 it's probably not going to be heaps of negative impact 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.960 over time. But if you're only sleeping say two, three 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.680 or four hours a night, then people will really start 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:47.040 to see those negative impacts building up quite quickly. So 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:49.840 the first week, first two weeks, they're going to start 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:51.440 to get really tired, find it hard to do what 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.080 they want to during the day, and then unless they're 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:55.680 addressing that, it can get worse and worse. 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:57.920 I'm glad you brought that up, because I think I 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.600 think we tend to go straight to the short practical implications, 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.160 you know, the commliness, the forgetfulness that you know, not 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:06.120 struggling at work a bit or whatever it might be. 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:11.200 But actual long term health ramifications in these extreme cases 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:12.720 I think is really important to point out. 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.040 Yeah, and so I guess the last thing I'd say 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.560 about that is it is important to get help. And 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:20.520 if you get help. It can make a big difference. 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.640 My clinical trial was four sessions across eight weeks, and 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.520 that improved most people that we saw. Yeah, right, Whereas 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:28.600 if people don't address it at all, those sleep problems 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:30.920 can remain for ten twenty thirty years. 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.240 What advice can you give to our listeners out there 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:35.840 to give them a bit of a shakeup? 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.760 I try to give people this sense of try it 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.920 as an experiment. You know, let's prioritize this for a 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.320 few weeks or a month and see what difference it 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.040 makes in your life. Now, after that month it doesn't 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.080 feel like it's worth the time, then maybe you don't 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:50.960 have to make that a priority and you can focus 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.560 on the other two and maybe that's enough. But if 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.240 they're really not prioritizing it's probably having some type of 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.800 negative impact, even if they don't realize it. So focusing 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:01.960 on a little bit more improving their sleep and seeing 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:03.920 the benefits can be enough to then help them to 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:04.760 keep doing it. 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:06.560 It's really good advice. I was sort of as I 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:08.480 was asking you that question, I was thinking I was 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:13.399 putting it in the exercise in my own you know, 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.240 for my own advice that I give people and I 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.000 adopt a pretty similar attitude. You know, if you try 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:21.760 too hard to push it on someone, they just push 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:23.840 back or falls on deaf ears that I want to 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.480 know about it, But just get up a movie body 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.320 for thirty minutes, five days a week, and if you 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.800 don't feel better in a month, you'll never hear from 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:35.800 me again. And guess what, none in on people out 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:37.719 of one hundred and eight. Thanks so much. I'm definitely 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:39.480 going to keep doing this, you know, if they've actually 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.479 done it consistently. So I think that's I think that's 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.960 really good advice to our listeners. What does your book 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:49.880 have in it that we didn't discuss today? I'm far 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.720 more comprehensive, obviously, But what can people expect from your 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:55.960