1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: Well, as you've heard over the last couple of days, 2 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: we do know that the inquiry, the Senate inquiry hearings 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: into fracking here in the Northern Territory, they. 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 2: Continue on in Darwin today. 5 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: So yesterday a number of people were there presenting their 6 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: perspectives and joining us on the line. Right now is 7 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: Kirsty Howie, the co director of the Environment Center here 8 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory. 9 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Kirsty. 10 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, thanks for having me on. 11 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 2: You thank you so much for joining us. 12 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Talk us through what's gone on over the last two 13 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: days from your perspective. 14 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, look, yesterday in particular, it was an extraordinary 15 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 3: day of hearing and evidence at the Senate inquiry into 16 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 3: fracking the Beterloo, and at different points during the day 17 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 3: you could have cut the tension with a knife. You know. 18 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 3: The room was packed with traditional owners, pastoral peak bodies 19 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 3: and of course the gas industry and Northern Territory government itself, 20 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 3: and we heard a wide array of evidence including you 21 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 3: know that people have serious issues with this industry and 22 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 3: the way it's proceeding in the Northern Territory. 23 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 2: And I guess I. 24 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: Said this yesterday because We interviewed API yesterday as well, 25 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: and I said the same to them that I'll say 26 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: to you. I know that there are some people with 27 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: serious concerns about fracking going ahead in the Beaterloo. 28 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: There are others that feel as. 29 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: Though it can be done safely and they want to 30 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: see the industry get up and running. And then there 31 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: are you know, some listening who really I suppose may 32 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: not be as invested either way. 33 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: But do you think we can do both? 34 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: Do you think that we are in a situation where 35 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: we can you know, where we can have the gas 36 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: industry operating and it not cause environmental impacts. 37 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 3: Well, look, of course there was an inquiry that investigated 38 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 3: just that, and you'll recall back in twenty eighteen, the 39 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 3: Gunner government quite controversially lifted the moratorium unfracking in the 40 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 3: territory that it is imposed a couple of years earlier 41 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 3: on the base of the Pepper Inquiries recommendation that the 42 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 3: industry could proceed safely if one hundred and thirty five 43 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 3: different recommendations were followed in full. And that's the problem. Essentially. 44 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 3: What we heard yesterday was that the Northern Territory government 45 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 3: is failing on that promise to deliver on all one 46 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 3: hundred and thirty five recommendations, and in fact, we heard 47 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:27,839 Speaker 3: that from numerous different speakers that we're looking at more 48 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 3: like twenty seven percent of recommendations being implemented, which is 49 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 3: undermining trust. I guess in that fundamental promise that all 50 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 3: of these things would be delivered. 51 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: So what happens next, you know, with the inquiry, what 52 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: will happen in terms of it being taken back to 53 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 1: the Senate and what decision are we anticipating could come through. 54 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: I guess we don't really know at this point until 55 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:53,559 Speaker 1: it's finalized. 56 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: But what happens next? 57 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, look it is a Senate inquiry. This committee 58 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 3: doesn't have the ability to say yes or no to 59 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,279 Speaker 3: fracking in the way for instance, the Northern Territory government has. 60 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: But look, I think what we will see this inquiry 61 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: do and consider is this fundamental question of whether the 62 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 3: taxpayer you know, you and me should be funding this industry, 63 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 3: including through There's a key grant that was the subject 64 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 3: of you know, really the whole inquiry, which is the 65 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 3: fifty million dollars that's been given to gas gas companies 66 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 3: to stimulate exploration and production there's heaps of other grants 67 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 3: as well, and the question is should that public funding 68 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 3: continue to a multi billion dollar industry that should be 69 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 3: able to stand on its own two feet. And I 70 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 3: think that's the kind of recommendation we're going to see 71 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 3: and really, honestly, that's the issue that all parties are 72 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 3: going to have to grapple within this schedual election. So 73 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 3: you know, it'll be interesting to see where Labor comes out, 74 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 3: for instance, on this issue of public funding for the 75 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 3: gas industry. 76 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: And Kirsty, from your perspective as the co director of 77 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: the Environment Center here in the Northern Territory, have you 78 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: presented your perspective at this point and what have you 79 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: said in that hearing? 80 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, look, we have. We've presented twice to the inquiry 81 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 3: and we sort of we raised concerns first of all 82 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 3: about the failure of the Northern Territory government to deliver 83 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 3: on the Pepper Inquiry recommendations, which on the government's own 84 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 3: logic means that the industry shouldn't proceed. And the second 85 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 3: thing we've raised is this issue of public funding for 86 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 3: the gas industry. And you might recall we actually did 87 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 3: take Minister Pit to court last year, YEP over those 88 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 3: grants and we were successful, although ultimately that money was 89 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 3: regranted to Imperial Oil and Gas. And our concern is like, 90 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 3: along with a lot of other territories, there's a lot 91 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 3: of things that that money could be spent on in 92 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 3: the territory. Hospitals, roads, you know, you name it, housing, 93 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 3: and it shouldn't be going to gas companies, it should 94 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 3: be going to other things. 95 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: Well, Kirsty, I really appreciate your time this morning and 96 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: certainly putting it into perspective, into the other perspective. Like 97 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: I said, we spoke to API yesterday and it's been 98 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: good to hear from you today. I think it's really 99 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: good for territorians to hear things from both sides. And 100 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: then I firmly believe, you know, people are certainly able 101 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: to then make up their decisions themselves, whether they feel 102 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: as though something is a good thing or if they 103 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: feel as though it's money not not being spent properly 104 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: and wasted. 105 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 3: Thanks so much, and you're right, Katie, and thank you 106 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 3: so much for having us. 107 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: One no problem at all, will no doubt talk to 108 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: you again soon. Thank you.