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Speaker 1: Already and this this is the Daily This is the

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Speaker 1: Daily OS.

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Speaker 2: Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to

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Speaker 2: the Daily OS. It's Monday, the eighth of December. I

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Speaker 2: am Billy fitz Simon's.

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Speaker 3: I'm Sam Kazlowski.

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Speaker 2: You've likely heard of the National Party. They are largely

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Speaker 2: seen as the political party that represents regional and rural

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Speaker 2: Australia and they form one half of the coalition with

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Speaker 2: the Liberal Party. Last month they announced they would be

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Speaker 2: dropping Australia's legislative goal to achieve net zero emissions by

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Speaker 2: twenty fifty. We had Liberal Party leader Susan Lee on

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Speaker 2: to explain that decision, and the day that interview went live,

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Speaker 2: the leader of the National Party, David Little Crowd asked

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Speaker 2: if he could come on to share his perspective. We agreed,

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Speaker 2: and today you'll hear that conversation.

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Speaker 3: Billy, I do. Just before we start, want to zoom

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Speaker 3: out and remind everybody that it's quite new that TDA

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Speaker 3: is speaking to all political leaders across the political spectrum.

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Speaker 2: Not because we haven't reached out to them.

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Speaker 3: No, because it's a tough gig to get members of

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Speaker 3: these parties to speak to youth media, and we're so

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Speaker 3: proud that we can be in open and accessible and

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Speaker 3: high quality source of news for all sides of the aisle.

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Speaker 3: Let's get some context on who you're talking to today.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So three things that I think you need to

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Speaker 2: know before you listen to this interview. The first is

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Speaker 2: the term net zero, which comes up a lot. We

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Speaker 2: explain it every time it does come up on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: A quick refresher. Net zero emissions is when the amount

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Speaker 2: of greenhouse gas is produced into the atmosphere is offset

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Speaker 2: with the amount taken out. The next thing you need

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Speaker 2: to know is the Paris Agreement. It also comes up

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Speaker 2: in this interview. This is a legally binding international treaty

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Speaker 2: where countries have agreed to limit global warming to one

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Speaker 2: point five degrees above pre industrial levels, and to do that,

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Speaker 2: net zero by twenty fifty is required. A following sam,

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Speaker 2: I'm on, you're on. Okay. The last thing that you

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Speaker 2: need to know is why those two things are relevant.

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Speaker 2: They are relevant because the coalition announced last month that

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Speaker 2: it will drop Australia's target to reach net zero by

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Speaker 2: twenty fifty, but despite that, they will remain part of

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Speaker 2: the Paris Agreement. Got it, and just a reminder that

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Speaker 2: because the coalition is currently in opposition, these are policy

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Speaker 2: proposals for the next election, which is due by twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty eight, so we have a couple of years, but

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Speaker 2: they always announce their policy proposals very early.

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Speaker 3: Got it, okay, And then the one other bit is

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Speaker 3: the coalition is the Liberal Party and the National Party. Yes,

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Speaker 3: we're now about to speak to David little Proud, the

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Speaker 3: leader of the National Party. Let's get into that.

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Speaker 2: David littl Prowd, thank you so much for joining the

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Speaker 2: Daily Os.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Your team actually reached out to us to do this interview.

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Speaker 1: Why well, I actually do follow you very closely and

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Speaker 1: I think you do media very well and it's great

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Speaker 1: to be here and be able to have the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about the National Party and what

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Speaker 1: we stand for. So that people obviously have some ingrained

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Speaker 1: beliefs of who we are and what we are, but

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Speaker 1: it's important that we can actually demonstrate that we're broader

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Speaker 1: than just a party for farmers.

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Speaker 2: And for anyone who might not be familiar with you.

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Speaker 2: Do you want to just explain what you do as

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Speaker 2: leader of the National Party.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I got into politics in twenty sixteen. I

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Speaker 1: represent an electric called Marinoa. It's forty three percent of Queensland.

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Speaker 1: It's three times the size of Victoria. That's my primary job.

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Speaker 1: But as the leader of the National Party, I lead

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Speaker 1: eighteen in our party room, basically in the Senate and

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Speaker 1: in the House of Reps. My jobs to go around

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Speaker 1: and as the leader into those electrics and the electorates

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Speaker 1: that we want to win and have the conversation. And

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Speaker 1: you know, election days start the very first day after

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Speaker 1: the last election, and you've got to be out there listening, learning,

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Speaker 1: understanding and putting forward the things that matter to the

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Speaker 1: people you want to vote for. You.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's look at the last election. The coalition had

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Speaker 2: its worst loss in seventy years. You've had a few

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Speaker 2: months now to reflect on why that might have happened.

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Speaker 2: What is your assessment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, wee proud of the National Party. The Liberal Party

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Speaker 1: has lost thirty four seats in two elections in less

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Speaker 1: than three years. We haven't lost a seat since two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven. I think it is but you work

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Speaker 1: together as we worked exactly. But we're two different parties

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Speaker 1: and I think it's important to understand we have different

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Speaker 1: values and principles to that of the Liberal Party. But

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Speaker 1: I think they made Peter Dutton unelectable. They did they

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Speaker 1: destroyed his character. There was my own goals in that

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Speaker 1: as well. The work from home thing, it wasn't coalition policy,

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Speaker 1: was a thought bubble. I mean, for us in the

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Speaker 1: National PAP, we believe in work from home because we

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Speaker 1: want to have that lifestyle where people can come and

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Speaker 1: live in regional professional people. And they had this perception

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Speaker 1: that we're going to take that away and that was

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Speaker 1: I think a real mistake and one that we didn't

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Speaker 1: endorse was the work from home.

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Speaker 2: So you don't take shared responsibility for that loss.

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Speaker 1: Oh totally. I mean we're in it together, make no mistake.

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Speaker 2: But you're saying that the reason you lost is because

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Speaker 2: of the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 1: No, And I think some of the policies that we took,

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Speaker 1: I think the work from home that was the primary

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Speaker 1: one that I think went. The public service peace wasn't

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Speaker 1: and we were in on that one. We're not running

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Speaker 1: away from that. I think that was a mistake. I

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Speaker 1: think the Trump piece didn't help and it painted in

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Speaker 1: a light that he was trumpion and I think that

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Speaker 1: was a mistake. And I think there was some other

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Speaker 1: real errors of judgment around some of the actions we

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Speaker 1: took leading up to the election, and that's a shared responsibility,

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Speaker 1: but that's the nature of the beast. You've got to

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Speaker 1: copy it on the chin. You listen, you learn, you understand,

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Speaker 1: and come back with a better offering at the next

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Speaker 1: election in two and a half years time.

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Speaker 2: I want to look at net zero. It's the biggest

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Speaker 2: policy position the coalition had confirmed since the last election.

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Speaker 2: Do you want to just explain why your party rejects

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Speaker 2: the target of net zero by twenty fifty.

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Speaker 1: So we're saying we're still going to reduce emissions, but

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Speaker 1: net zero is not the only way to reduce emissions,

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Speaker 1: so we'll still do our fair share and we have to.

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Speaker 1: But we're only one point one percent of global emissions.

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Speaker 1: So what we're saying is we can't mitigate all the

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Speaker 1: world's emissions here in Australa because we're only one point

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Speaker 1: one percent of global missions. We should still continue to

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Speaker 1: reduce our missions. We believe in that.

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Speaker 2: I believe you'll remove the targets to reduce the emissions.

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Speaker 1: What we are saying is that we will get there

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Speaker 1: in line with what the rest of the world's doings.

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Speaker 1: The world pivots, we pivot with them.

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Speaker 2: But the world is targeting net zero by twenty five,

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Speaker 2: not all.

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Speaker 1: The world, and I think this is important, particularly they've

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Speaker 1: made a commitment, but if you look at it today,

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Speaker 1: there's over one hundred and twenty countries that haven't put

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Speaker 1: in their twenty thirty five target, and that was due

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Speaker 1: in March. So what we're saying is we can still

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Speaker 1: reduce emissions and keep pace with what the rest of

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Speaker 1: the world's doing. But by us streaking ahead so quickly,

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Speaker 1: you are having an arbitrary target by a set date

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Speaker 1: when technologies many of the technologies don't exist yet. You're

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Speaker 1: putting pressure on your energy bill, you're putting pressure on

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Speaker 1: regional communities, but you're putting pressure on your food security.

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Speaker 1: Let's be sensal about this. There's a calm, considered way

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Speaker 1: that we can achieve emissions reductions, and we should. We've

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Speaker 1: got to leave a better healthier climate, an environment, and

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Speaker 1: this is the thing is the environment has been forgotten

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Speaker 1: in this. We're having perverse outcomes for the environment and

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Speaker 1: what we're trying to chase.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean the environment has been forgotten in

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Speaker 2: this well.

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Speaker 1: If you look at if you want to get to

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Speaker 1: ninety two percent renewables, you want to come out what's

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Speaker 1: looking like in regional Australia. We're having not just prime

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Speaker 1: agricultural land taken over, but you're actually having native vegetation

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Speaker 1: knocked over, destroyed for wind, turbine, solar panels and transmission

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Speaker 1: lines littered across regional Australia.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it confusing when you say that we are destroying

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Speaker 2: the environment, but your policy is to do less on

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Speaker 2: climate change, which ultimately will result in more intense and

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Speaker 2: frequent weather events that will destroy the environment.

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Speaker 1: We can't, in fact, even in centered estimates. This week

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Speaker 1: the government has admitted that we can't change ourselves solely

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Speaker 1: here in Australia because we're only one point one percent

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Speaker 1: of global missions. That's not saying we throw our hands

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Speaker 1: up and give up. We're not. We're saying we're going

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Speaker 1: to continue to reduce emissions.

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Speaker 2: You talk a lot about emissions reduction and you're critical

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Speaker 2: of labor not reaching its targets when it comes to

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Speaker 2: emissions reductions, but just to be clear, you're proposing to

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Speaker 2: do less in terms of emission reduction.

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Speaker 1: So we'll peg ourselves to what the OECD is doing

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Speaker 1: with the rest of the world, so that'll be somewhere

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Speaker 1: between two and nine million tons of reduction and emissions

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Speaker 1: every year. Labour want to go and ramp up to

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Speaker 1: twenty two twenty three million tons a year, which is,

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Speaker 1: you know, two and a half times what the rest

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Speaker 1: of the world's doing. And we're going to do our part.

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Speaker 1: But we're saying what's happening is and what you're feeling

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Speaker 1: in your energy bill every quarter is this race ahead.

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Speaker 2: They heard you last month when you said you have

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Speaker 2: moved on from the science of climate change to instead

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Speaker 2: focus on the economics. What do you mean that you've

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Speaker 2: moved on from the science of climate change.

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Speaker 1: We're not debating the science. Ninety seven percent of the

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Speaker 1: world scientists believe that man has made a contribution, and

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Speaker 1: I believe them, and I believe we need to do

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Speaker 1: something about it. The science is not debatable.

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Speaker 2: But the science says that we need to achieve net

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Speaker 2: zero by twenty fifty in order to reduce global warming

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Speaker 2: to mitigate extreme weather events, And you're saying, no, we don't.

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Speaker 1: The science is saying the world needs to do that

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Speaker 1: not just Australia. The science says the world needs to

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Speaker 1: do that because.

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Speaker 2: We're again Australia is part of exactly.

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Speaker 1: No, no, and we're not walking away from any commitment

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Speaker 1: that we want to make where we're still within the

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Speaker 1: Paris Agreement and.

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Speaker 2: Saying that they are not doing anything to actively reach that.

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Speaker 2: In your proposal this we.

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Speaker 1: Are we're going to reduce emissions every year. We're saying

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Speaker 1: we will continue to be signed up to Paris, will

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Speaker 1: continue to reduce our missions in line with where the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world. There's one hundred and twenty countries

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Speaker 1: that still haven't put in their twenty thirty five target.

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Speaker 1: Nearly no country will meet their twenty thirty target at all.

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Speaker 1: And that's not saying put our hands up and give up.

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Speaker 1: But what we're saying is if we want to continue

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Speaker 1: on the pathway to reduce our missions and do our

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Speaker 1: fair share, if we streak ahead, we're making our economy

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Speaker 1: uncompetitive with the rest of the world. We need the

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Speaker 1: world to continue to commit.

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Speaker 2: But Australia wouldn't be committed under this proposal.

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Speaker 1: Yes we are. We're not walking away from Paris, but

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Speaker 1: in order.

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Speaker 2: To achieve Paris, we have to achieve net zero by

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Speaker 2: twenty fifty, and you are walking away from that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're saying that we will reduce some missions, but

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Speaker 1: not everyone signed up by twenty fifty. China's twenty sixty,

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Speaker 1: twenty seventy. In fact, many countries and Japan are now

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Speaker 1: taking away the twenty fifty target element of their commitments.

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Speaker 2: I just want to focus on Australia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, and I do too.

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Speaker 2: That's Australia is part of Paris Agreement. In Paris Agreement

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Speaker 2: says that we should achieve net zero by twenty five.

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Speaker 2: That is in order to meet that aim.

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Speaker 1: Yep, that is the aim that everyone wants to get to.

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Speaker 1: The practical application is your lived experience of what you've seen,

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Speaker 1: your energy bill, of your food bill, about how we

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Speaker 1: can achieve this and also protect that natural environment. And

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Speaker 1: that's the thing that we're saying is we're not giving

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Speaker 1: up on this. We're going to do our fair share.

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Speaker 1: We can do this in a sensible, ordered way, and

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Speaker 1: I believe in doing it. I believe in leaving a

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Speaker 1: better environment. But you've got to have an economy that

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Speaker 1: can achieve it. And we're a smart nation. That's why

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Speaker 1: we've got to start that journey towards nuclear energy is

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Speaker 1: about thirty five percent of our total emissions, but technology

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Speaker 1: will solve a lot of this, and what we've got

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Speaker 1: to do is be able to get ourselves to a

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Speaker 1: point where technology can mean it's a cheaper way of

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of this, but without the perverse outcomes

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Speaker 1: that we live with in regional Australia.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting you bring up nuclear because when you were

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Speaker 2: talking before about the reasons why the Coalition lost the

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Speaker 2: last selection, you didn't mention newc and nuclear was one

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Speaker 2: of the main policy positions of the coalition at that election.

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Speaker 2: Australia clearly rejected it. But you're saying that you are

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Speaker 2: still going forward with nuclear totally.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think again the Labor Party did a

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Speaker 1: great job perpetrating a six hundred billion dollar lie. But

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Speaker 1: this Pole, I've seen polling subsequent that people didn't vote

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Speaker 1: against this because in nuclear in fact, they're actually now

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Speaker 1: more open to it because they can see the loss

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Speaker 1: of new industries like AI data centers.

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Speaker 2: Where is that polling?

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Speaker 1: Osgarv I think did Pole and nuclear Australia.

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Speaker 2: That nuclear is popular amongst Australia.

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Speaker 1: It's becoming more and more accepted. And I think what

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Speaker 1: we've done is started a debate, not about a scare campaign,

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Speaker 1: about where they go because and that's why I think

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Speaker 1: we made some great in rays. That's the one thing

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Speaker 1: about the last election is the awareness and the opportunity

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Speaker 1: of neuclear energy.

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Speaker 2: And you look at it, you can agree that Australia

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Speaker 2: was aware of nuclear energy, but based as a result,

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Speaker 2: it would seem that the rejected.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you know where most people got their

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Speaker 1: information and form their judgment about nucal energy was Schenebel,

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Speaker 1: Fukushima and the Simpsons. So I'm a passionate believer. I

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Speaker 1: think Australia is going to get there at some point

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Speaker 1: and it's important to do it and give confidence that

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Speaker 1: we're Australian we can do this better than anyone else.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've got to back ourselves. We've got to

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Speaker 1: change the culture in this country of saying and finding

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Speaker 1: reasons why not to do things, rather than backing ourselves

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Speaker 1: and getting off the job.

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Speaker 2: Hey, let's move on because we are running out of time.

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Speaker 2: Longtime Nationals Party member Barnaby Joyce has just left your party.

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Speaker 2: In the press conference announcing his departure, he directly referenced

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Speaker 2: the leadership of the party as a reason for why

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Speaker 2: he was leaving.

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Speaker 1: What happened, well, Barnaby's made a decision that he doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to be in our party. That's disappointing. Barnaby obviously

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Speaker 1: had an issue around net zero. But after the election

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Speaker 1: we made a very clear we'd review our position. But

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Speaker 1: I wasn't just going to say no and do the

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Speaker 1: populist thing like one nation we want.

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Speaker 2: To after you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But so what happened was we said straight after

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Speaker 1: the election, let's do a review. Let's actually just not

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Speaker 1: say no, Let's actually if we're going to be a

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Speaker 1: party of government, we've got to be sensible. We're going

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Speaker 1: to say if we're not doing that, why we're not,

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Speaker 1: and what we're going to go to. We just can't

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Speaker 1: say we're going to stop reducing emissions. That's insane. We're

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Speaker 1: going to reduce emissions in a better way. He agreed

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Speaker 1: to that, but then he couldn't wait. He got upset

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Speaker 1: and angry and he left our party room. He obviously

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Speaker 1: doesn't like the fact that I'm leader, and that's that's

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Speaker 1: an occupational hazard. The fact that people don't like people

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Speaker 1: in politics. That's personalities. I don't have a personal issue

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Speaker 1: with Barnaby at all. In fact, if I really didn't

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Speaker 1: like Barnaby Joyce, I mean when he found himself in

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Speaker 1: an embarrassing situation about eighteen months ago, I could I

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Speaker 1: could have taken the opportunity if I really didn't like him,

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Speaker 1: to take him off the front bench then and.

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Speaker 2: There I did. You're referencing, to be clear, when he

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Speaker 2: was on the pavement.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, in Canberra, and instead of actually taking an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to get rid of him, we gave him pastoral

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Speaker 1: care and gave them time to say, well mate, let's

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Speaker 1: get this right. You still have a contribution to make.

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Speaker 2: Just lastly, on the Liberal Party, there is a lot

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Speaker 2: of speculation about Susan Lee's leadership. Do you hope that

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Speaker 2: she remains leader of the Liberal Party?

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Speaker 1: I do. I mean, I think what people are looking

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Speaker 1: for is us to focus on them, not on ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Politics is a contact sport and there's always people that

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Speaker 1: have ambition, and you know that's an occupational has it.

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Speaker 1: As leaders you've got a cop But the reality is

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Speaker 1: what you've got to do is not become paranoid and

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Speaker 1: just focus on what you're going to deliver, and that's

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Speaker 1: the way I do it. There'll be a day when

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Speaker 1: I get knocked over, but you know what I live

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Speaker 1: every day of leaving that legacy, of building towards that legacy.

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Speaker 1: I want to lead, and when my time comes up,

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Speaker 1: my legacy be judged by how I handle that and

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Speaker 1: how I stay true to the beliefs and to the

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Speaker 1: people that put me here.

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Speaker 2: Are you confident that she will be the opposition leader

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Speaker 2: at the next election? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think so. I mean, I think she's shown that

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Speaker 1: she's going to have a red hot crack. I think

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Speaker 1: that's what Australians want, and I think if we stay focused,

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Speaker 1: we've got a lot of these things out of the

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Speaker 1: way that we're contentious. We've landed that. But now we've

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Speaker 1: got to talk about it and say to australnge the

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Speaker 1: how and say on this is how we're going to

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Speaker 1: bring down your energy bill.

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Speaker 2: David Little Proud, thank you so much for joining the

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Speaker 2: Daily OS.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. It's been great. It's been privily to be

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Speaker 1: allowed on it. Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much to David Little Proud and his

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Speaker 3: team for coming into the Daily OS offices. And sitting

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Speaker 3: down for that interview with Billy, And thank you to

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Speaker 3: Billy as well for representing us so beautifully in those discussions.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for listening. It really means a lot to

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Speaker 3: us as an independent media company here in Australia. If

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Speaker 3: you just click follow on whatever podcast app you're listening

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Speaker 3: to right now, if that's Spotify, Apple or something else,

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Speaker 3: that alone can really change the way our business will

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Speaker 3: perform in twenty twenty six. It means the world. We'll

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Speaker 3: speak to you in the afternoon with your headlines. Until then,

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Speaker 3: have a great day.

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Speaker 2: My name is Lily Mate and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 2: Banjelung Kalkadoon woman from Gadighl Country.

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Speaker 1: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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Speaker 1: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

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Speaker 1: all Aboriginal and torrest Rate island and nations. We pay

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Speaker 1: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both

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Speaker 1: past and present.