1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers. 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 2: Now, I'm actually going to take a position on this 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 2: that I didn't take on a current effect because I 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: wanted to be gentle. But I think seventy nine is 6 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 2: too old have become a. 7 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: Dad And now here's the stars of our show, my 8 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: mum and dad. 9 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy 10 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: Families dot com dot au. I'm here with my very sore, 11 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: achy wife. 12 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 3: I can't believe you're telling everybody. 13 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 2: That Kylie has just started trying out a new form 14 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 2: of exercise and has muscles in places she didn't know 15 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 2: that she has muscles. 16 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 3: I might be literally the youngest person in the room 17 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 3: by about twenty years, but these Polarti classes are using 18 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 3: every single muscle in my body. 19 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: How's the conversation with the way are you doing? 20 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 3: Now? 21 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 2: Well? This is the great Why are you doing plarties 22 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: with seven year olds? 23 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 3: That's who goes? 24 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 2: Really, I'm sure there has to. 25 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 3: I feel like I'm seventy some days my body really aches. 26 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 3: But what I love about it is I'm a bit 27 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 3: unco I don't have good coordination and you get to no. No. 28 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 3: Whenever I go to exercise classes, by every single time, 29 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 3: the instructor will pull me out or you know, point 30 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 3: out where I'm going wrong and try to get me 31 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 3: to do it while I'm in front of you know, 32 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 3: twenty five other people, and it just makes me more 33 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 3: unco by the minute. Whereas when you're on the Reformer, 34 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 3: I don't see anyone. I can't I can't see what 35 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 3: anyone else is doing. They can't see what I'm doing. 36 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 2: It's great, it's the Reformer. It sounds like a really 37 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 2: punishing exercise class. We're here to reform you. 38 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 3: Have you not ever seen the Reformer tables that what. 39 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 2: You're talking about. I'm just happy to ride my bike 40 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 2: and go surfing. Hey, today's conversation were the parents of 41 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 2: six daughters, by the way, and today's conversation is this 42 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: week in parenting. Every so often on the podcast we. 43 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 3: You didn't do it right? 44 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 2: How am I supposed to do it? 45 00:01:58,280 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 3: This week? 46 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: In parent of the facial expressions, guys, I wish we 47 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: were videoing this so that you could see Kylie's face 48 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 2: when she does this. I'm sure that Jr. Has done 49 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 2: on the fancy sound effects to make you sound incredible 50 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,839 Speaker 2: as you did that. Whenever there's parenting news, we kind 51 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 2: of like to play with it. We like to keep 52 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 2: our finger on the pulse. We like to let you 53 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: know that we know what's happening in the world of parenting. 54 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 2: And today, two stories that I think are really fascinating 55 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: about family life. One, there's a divorce lawyer on TikTok 56 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 2: who is saying that he is seeing more and more 57 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 2: women leaving their husbands for one core reason. We're going 58 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: to discuss that in a sec And Robert De Niro 59 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: seventy nine years old, he's a dad again seventh time around. 60 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: We're going to talk about that as well. Which one 61 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: should we start with, Kylie? 62 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 3: They're both as bad as each other. Whichever one you. 63 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 2: Want, Okay, let's start with our divorce lawyer. The name 64 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 2: of the gentleman is Dennis R. Vitrano Junior. He is 65 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 2: a US divorce lawyer and this is what he had 66 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 2: to say on TikTok. It's gone viral. 67 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 4: You want to know the major theme that I'm seeing 68 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 4: in the divorce industry as a divorce lawyer, as I 69 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 4: do consolets these days, I am seeing working moms doing 70 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 4: it all, and I'm seeing the husbands step back and say, Hanna, 71 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 4: I'm got to do a thing. She's got the kids, 72 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 4: she's got the grocery, she's got the laundry, she has 73 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 4: got the meals, she's got the work. And by the way, 74 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 4: she's making all the money and she's paying for the 75 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 4: house and doing everything else. I'm gonna go to the firehouse, 76 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 4: I'm gonna go play this. I'm gonna go hang out 77 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 4: with my friends. That's the thing. And women are tired. 78 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 2: Boom and it's blown up on TikTok. What's your initial response. 79 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: You haven't heard that before. This is brand new fe 80 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: you to hear and you didn't know what was coming. 81 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: What do you think of Dennis R. Vitrano. 82 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 3: Well, look, I don't want this to be a gang 83 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 3: up on dads because I think that when you look 84 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 3: at history, dads are doing more and are more hands 85 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 3: on than they've ever been before. 86 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: Well, many of them are. But what he's saying is 87 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: there's a bunch of dads who are out there that 88 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,839 Speaker 2: aren't doing a thing. They're gaming, they're staying up late, 89 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: they're having drinks with the boys, they're cycling too much. 90 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 3: My suggestion is going to be that it's not that 91 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 3: they've stopped doing stuff. They never did it. They never 92 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 3: did it from the very beginning, and it wasn't a 93 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 3: problem because it was just you and him. But as 94 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 3: the children have come along, and as circumstances have changed, 95 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 3: and maybe you weren't working and now you are, I 96 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,119 Speaker 3: think there's a lot more going on than just dads 97 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 3: aren't being involved. 98 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 2: I remember a little while ago I was doing a 99 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 2: Happy Family's Premium member Q and A. So, for those 100 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: of you who are not familiar with what this is, 101 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: our Happy Family's website has a premium membership group. You 102 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 2: pay eighteen bucks a month t one hundred and eighty 103 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 2: dollars a year, So we'll give you two three months 104 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 2: if you sign up for the year, and we do 105 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: a monthly Q and A. And I remember a mum 106 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: saying I don't know what to do about my husband. 107 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: I'm absolutely drowning. I've got the three kids, and I'm 108 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 2: the one that looks after them. Not all of them 109 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: are at school yet, so I'm with them all day. 110 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: I'm constantly tied in the house, constantly looking after the kids, 111 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 2: doing all the school stuff. Doing the library, the sports 112 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 2: day of the canteen, all that sort of thing. And 113 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 2: then on the days that the younger kids do go 114 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 2: into daycare, I'm going to work to win the supplementary income. 115 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 2: And what he does is he goes to work and 116 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 2: then he comes home and he games. She said, He's 117 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 2: actually in the room next to me right now while 118 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 2: I'm asking this question, and he's playing shoot him up games. 119 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 2: The kids are running around the house, and I just 120 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 2: need help. And so when I hear a story like that, 121 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: that really gels to me with what Dennis Vitrano, the 122 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: Di Force law in the US, is saying. 123 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 3: But my suggestion goes back to the fact that he 124 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 3: hasn't just picked up a gaming console. 125 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 2: Now this is live, long thing. 126 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 3: And so the writing is mostly on. 127 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 2: The wall potentially, but now the wall needs some writing 128 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: described offer. I remember when you and I were early 129 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 2: in our marriage and I had this line that I 130 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 2: would share with you all the time. This is before 131 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 2: I had a PhD in psychology. This is back in 132 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 2: the pretty early days, probably the first half a dozen 133 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 2: years of our marriage, and you used to get kind 134 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: of cranky at me for reasonable reasons, I guess, But 135 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 2: I didn't know what those reasons were. And I would say, 136 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: if you just tell me what's wrong, I'll help. Like 137 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: it's not in my interest or your interest for our 138 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 2: relationship to be ugly and messy. Just tell me what 139 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 2: the matter is and I'll help. And you never wanted 140 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 2: to tell me. You just figured that I should know well. 141 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 3: And I think that with a lack of maturity. I 142 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 3: guess what I thought was, you can see that I'm 143 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 3: running one hundred miles an hour. Why can't you just 144 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 3: pick up the pieces? Why can't you just fill in 145 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 3: the gaps? Why can't you see things and use your 146 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 3: initiative and recognize that if I do this, it is 147 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: actually going to lighten her load. 148 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 2: And my response was always I'm a husband, not a 149 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 2: mind reader. And there's some really cool research that's out 150 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 2: of it shows that if you ask a couple who's 151 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: doing what percentage of all the different jobs that need 152 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 2: to be done, when they write down the percentages that 153 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: they're doing, and you add the two percentages together mine 154 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 2: and yours, it usually adds up to more than one 155 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: hundred percent. I usually think that I'm doing a little 156 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 2: bit more than you think I'm doing, and you usually 157 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 2: think that you're doing a little bit more than I 158 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: think you're doing, or vice versa. Anyway, it always goes 159 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: to more than one hundred percent. There's plenty of studies 160 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: on this, but the communications so important, like you've got 161 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: to let one another know because we're husbands not minder is. 162 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: But I had a thought, Kylie, what was your thought? 163 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 2: I thought, we don't need more husbands, we need more dusbands. 164 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: A husband who does really a doesband. I didn't actually 165 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: make that up. It comes from the Times of London article. 166 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 2: Here's what it says, the partner every woman should have 167 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 2: a duzband. 168 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 3: Well it used to be a snag. 169 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, now's a duzband. The secret to a happier marriage, 170 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 2: more laughter, longer life and less anxious children. You won't 171 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 2: find it in a self help book or motivational Instagram post. 172 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 2: The answer is sitting next to you on the sofa, 173 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: or snoring gently as your scroll on your phone. The 174 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 2: answer might be out with his pals tonight, but he 175 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: put the kids down before he went so you could 176 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 2: finish up at work. You've heard of the new man 177 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: who cooks and the hands on dad who changes nappies. 178 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 2: But what you really need is a dusband. That's what 179 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: the times of London is so like a dustpan. 180 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 3: So I know it sounds like I'm being a bit 181 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 3: hard on the women, because I am one, and I've 182 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 3: learned a lot of lessons over the years. I think 183 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 3: that as women, we actually are often our own worst enemy, 184 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 3: and we don't advocate for ourselves enough. And in plenty 185 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 3: of cases, I'm sure that the women are doing that 186 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 3: and it's still not being heard and acted upon. But 187 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 3: sometimes I know that over the years, I kind of 188 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 3: saw being busy as a bit of a badge of honor. 189 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 3: The more I could achieve in a day, the more 190 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 3: worth I was as a mother and wife. But it's 191 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 3: so it's so toxic, and it's so disempowering for women. 192 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 3: And if we can we can actually look into our 193 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 3: own lives and recognize the areas where we are actually 194 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 3: compounding the impact of what's happening, and then being able 195 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 3: to actually have a voice and articulate what it is 196 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 3: that we need. I wonder, if you know, as He's 197 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 3: seeing all of these these different couples and the challenges 198 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 3: they're having, I wonder how many of them are actually 199 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 3: sitting down once a week and planning the week and 200 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 3: going this is where I actually need your help. 201 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 2: Oh that's what we do. 202 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 3: This is where you know, can you step in here 203 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 3: because I can't actually I can't actually do all of it. 204 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just those three questions, what's gone well this week, 205 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 2: what hasn't and what do we need to work on 206 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 2: this week? Like just getting on the same page. The 207 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: quality of the interaction makes all the difference. So it 208 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 2: really just comes down to communication more dusbands. But every 209 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: now and again we need to remember that there are 210 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 2: some guys that aren't having a go and they do 211 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: need to kick in the backside and hopefully they will 212 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 2: do better. And I'm not going to blame the victim 213 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: on those ones, because there are some guys who really 214 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: do just need to lift their game. 215 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 3: Well, now that you've said that, I don't want anybody 216 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 3: to think that I'm blaming the victim here. That's not 217 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 3: what I'm saying. 218 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 2: No, I know, I know, but I want to It's 219 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 2: being accountable. 220 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 3: Yes, each each one of us plays a part in 221 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 3: a relationship, and it's about being accountable for what part 222 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 3: I play in it. And sometimes it actually stepping up 223 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,719 Speaker 3: and going do you know what. I've expected that you're 224 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 3: going to do this, but I haven't actually articulated it. 225 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: Next, is seventy nine too old to become a dad? 226 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 2: What do you think? Seventy nine? Robert de Niro has 227 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 2: just become a dad. It's been all over the news. 228 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 3: I know you have six kids, Shavan, Actually I just 229 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 3: had a baby. Yeah, congratulations. 230 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 5: Actor Robert de Niro has welcomed his seventh child at 231 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 5: the age of seventy nine, but did not divulge the 232 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 5: gender or name of the child or who the mother is. 233 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 5: There is quite an age gap between his children, with 234 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 5: his eldest child recently turning fifty one. 235 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 3: You know what, tell me, I actually don't care about 236 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 3: this stuff like this. Whatever he wants to do with 237 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 3: his life is totally up to him. 238 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 2: So can we just talk about the biology of this 239 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 2: for a sec Women have a and I'm going to this. 240 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 2: This is a terrible phrase to use. I actually feel 241 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 2: like I've stopped myself because I don't want to use it, 242 00:10:57,800 --> 00:10:59,599 Speaker 2: but I'm going to anyway. There's a timestamp, there's a 243 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: used by date on women's fertility. Right, the men don't 244 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 2: have We know that sperm degrades over time. The older 245 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 2: man gets the lower quality and the lower amount of sperm. 246 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 2: But guys can keep on having children as long as 247 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: they can find a willing, young enough partner to have 248 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 2: those children with. Men can keep on having children into 249 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 2: their sixties and seventies and eighties. Doesn't happen very much. 250 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 2: But Robert de Nira, I mean, holy smokes. I was 251 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: talking to the team about this the other day in 252 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 2: one of our meetings. I said, I'm going to talk 253 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 2: about this in the podcast. What do you think? And 254 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: everyone went really quiet, and a team member who will 255 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 2: remain nameless, I won't say who it was, but she said, 256 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 2: it's kind of gross, like seventy nine years old. And 257 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 2: she said, I'm in my I'm in my early forties. 258 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 2: That's kind of giving their way a little bit, but 259 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 2: not too much. She said, I'm in my early forties. 260 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 2: I can't imagine getting into bed with a guy who's 261 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 2: in his mid to late seventies. And then she paused 262 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 2: for a second. She goes, actually he is kind of handsome. No, no, 263 00:11:58,640 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: just look, just stop. 264 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 3: Well, clearly scenario has no issues. We're finding a healthy counterpart. 265 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: Really not. 266 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 3: But for me, literally the only thing if I had 267 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 3: an opinion and I had to have, I had to 268 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 3: say something about it. 269 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 2: Oh, here we go. I just here comes to scoop. 270 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 3: At seventy nine. How many more years does he have? 271 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 2: Well? And then you have to have more children. 272 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 3: You may know, I've got this child who becomes fatherless 273 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 3: because his dad's his dad's he's gone or not, maybe 274 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 3: not because of poor choices, because biologically it's his time. 275 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: So you're saying that a seventy nine year old father 276 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 2: is being selfish. 277 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 3: No, I'm not saying that. I just you've got I mean, obviously, 278 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 3: Robert Denaro, he will be able to provide for this 279 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 3: child financially in every single way possible. This child will 280 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 3: not have a single want, but the intrinsic need that 281 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 3: we all have to have loving parents there to guide 282 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 3: and direct and. 283 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 2: Just to love us. Well. I was on a current affair. 284 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 3: It's taken from him. 285 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 2: To talk about this. It was a big enough story 286 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: that I was in a current affair just the other 287 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: day talking about it, and I dived into the research 288 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 2: and I found that they are both negative and positives 289 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 2: to being an older parent. It's mostly going to be 290 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: an older dad because Like I said, there's that expiry 291 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 2: date I guess on ovulation and the capacity to carry 292 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 2: a child as a woman negatives sperm degradation. It's associated 293 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 2: with some pretty challenging health and psychological issues, neurological issues, autism, 294 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 2: spectrum disorders go up. Also, a study from Stanford looking 295 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 2: at forty million births found that there was a higher 296 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 2: risk of birth defects fourteen percent, increase in premature birth, 297 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 2: fourteen percent, more likely to be low weight, eighteen percent 298 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 2: more likely to have seizures. That's comparing dads who are 299 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 2: over forty five with dads who are under thirty. 300 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 3: Five, where you'd have a similar list though for a mother. 301 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,080 Speaker 2: Over forty Yeah, that's right. Well you considered what's the 302 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 2: technical term that they use at like a high risk 303 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 2: birth if you're over thirty five is what they call it. Yeah, 304 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 2: but the pluses and the pluses are actually pretty substantial. 305 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 2: So We've got a friend who is sixty years old 306 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: and he's got a four year old, and I just 307 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: love watching him with his son because he's so in 308 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 2: love with being a dad as an older guy. 309 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 3: Well, in some ways, the child gets the benefits of 310 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 3: having an experienced dad who's been through a number of 311 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 3: times a lon't all of his lessons, but also kind 312 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 3: of a grandparent. 313 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of how he is and so laid back. 314 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 2: He's so much fun. He has that time. And the 315 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: research shows that older dads tend to be more financially 316 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 2: better off, and so do their kids. They also, interestingly, 317 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 2: on average, have slightly higher IQs. Don't know why. A 318 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 2: British medical journal from twenty twelve showed that kids that 319 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 2: are born to older parents are more likely to have 320 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 2: higher levels of emotional health. I'm pretty sure that's because 321 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 2: of the quality of the emotional investment in children that 322 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: comes from those. 323 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 3: Older people say it can be their twenty four. 324 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 2: To seven and a twenty sixteen Danish study with more 325 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 2: than thirty thousand people, and it found that older parents 326 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 2: do tend to be better parents. They're also better educated, 327 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 2: they've got more life experience. So I'm still going to 328 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 2: go with I'm actually going to take a position on 329 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 2: this that I didn't take on a current affair because 330 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 2: I wanted to be gentle. But I think seventy nine 331 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 2: is too old to become a dad. I just I 332 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 2: agree with you. I'm not into that, but for older 333 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 2: parents generally, that is, parents who are able to be 334 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: rearing their children up to their fifties and even their sixties, 335 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 2: it seems like there's a whole lot of evidence that 336 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: supports it. And other than the fact that your biological 337 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 2: prime is in your twenties, that's the best time to 338 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 2: be having physiologically having babies. There's plenty of advantages to 339 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: waiting a while. And given that the average age of 340 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: paternity now first time paternity is about thirty one in 341 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: Australia and the average mum is about twenty nine and 342 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: a half to thirty for the first time first time mothering, 343 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 2: I think that it's probably not a bad thing that 344 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 2: that's happening, and it seems to be working out reasonably 345 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 2: well according to the research. 346 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 3: If I had a choice between greater IQ or having 347 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 3: my dad, I'd pick my dad every time. 348 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 2: Oh jem, I'm talking to you about this stuff. The 349 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. 350 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 2: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. Thanks so much for 351 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 2: listening to this Week in Parenting. We'll be back tomorrow 352 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 2: with I'll Do Better Tomorrow. On The Happy Families podcast