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Speaker 1: Look the debate around alcohol and the reshuffle and four corners,

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Speaker 1: they've all been so high on the agenda over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of days. And joining me on the line

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Speaker 1: right now is Robin Lamley, the Independent member for Aarra

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Speaker 1: lu And good morning to you, Robin.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 3: Robin. Firstly, let's talk about this reshuffle.

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Speaker 1: Is it's becoming, I guess a little bit less clear

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Speaker 1: as time goes on how exactly some of the operational

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Speaker 1: aspects of the reshuffle are going to work.

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Speaker 3: But what did you make of it all?

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Speaker 2: Well, Katie, there's lots of reasons why government do this,

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Speaker 2: and being a part of the former cop government, we

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Speaker 2: did it a lot. That's firmly on the public record.

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Speaker 2: But it's not always wise and it's not always for

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Speaker 2: what it might appear on the surface to before. I

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Speaker 2: think that this is a bit of a distraction, to

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Speaker 2: be honest. I think politics is always about the numbers

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Speaker 2: and I think this is a way it would seem

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Speaker 2: for Natasha Files the Chief Minister, to shore up her

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Speaker 2: numbers within her parliamentary caucus or wing. There's been some

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Speaker 2: really like I was surprised to see that Warden had

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Speaker 2: both police and territory families taken off. Her territory families

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Speaker 2: is now with nrII Kit, I'm not sure that that

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Speaker 2: is a great move, and I don't really understand why

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Speaker 2: files would have done that. I just think it for

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Speaker 2: the most part, the whole thing seems a bit unnecessary,

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Speaker 2: a bit of an overkill. It might be designed to

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Speaker 2: look strong, but I think it's having the opposite effect.

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Speaker 2: I think it actually looks weak.

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Speaker 3: Well, and I guess as well, Robin.

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Speaker 1: It may look a little bit stronger, it may look

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Speaker 1: a little bit different if the elevation of two very

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Speaker 1: junior cabinet members weren't going into such senior roles. Asked

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister yesterday whether the elevation of both Brent

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Speaker 1: Potter and Joel Boden was to shore up her numbers

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Speaker 1: and whether it was a situation where it was about

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Speaker 1: making sure that she secured her leadership. Now, she obviously

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Speaker 1: was at pains to say that that was not the case,

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Speaker 1: but it did seem an odd step to take.

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Speaker 2: Well, don't forget that Brent Potter was the Captain's pick

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Speaker 2: for pre selection for the seat of at Fanny Bay.

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Speaker 2: He's somehow connected to a member of her staff through family,

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Speaker 2: so there's a very incestuous connection there, if you like.

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Speaker 2: And Joel Bowden is from the left faction of the

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Speaker 2: Labor Party and so is Natasha Phile. So I think

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Speaker 2: putting those two men in there is definitely about the numbers.

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Speaker 2: I don't think anyone could argue otherwise. But I think

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Speaker 2: I think Brent Potter. I've watched him very closely. I've

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Speaker 2: worked with him on the Public Accounts Committee, and I

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Speaker 2: think he will do a good job. I think he

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Speaker 2: is fairly junior, but don't forget in two thousand and

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Speaker 2: one when Claire Martin came to power, they were all newbies.

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Speaker 2: They were straight off the shelf, yep, and they managed

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Speaker 2: to function. Although there isn't a lot of time in

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Speaker 2: between now and then next election for a new minister

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Speaker 2: to find their legs. But I don't think it's about

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Speaker 2: that at all. I think this is about Natasha showing

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Speaker 2: up her vote and winning the next election. And I

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Speaker 2: think you'll find that there'll be little changes internally to

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Speaker 2: most of those departments, because they'll all be out door

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Speaker 2: knocking and standing on the side of the road waving

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Speaker 2: and hoping the hell that they can get across the

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Speaker 2: line again, Robin.

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Speaker 1: We did reveal on the show yesterday that one of

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Speaker 1: the public service changes that the Chief Minister has made

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Speaker 1: is doctor Frank Daly is out as the chief Executive

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Speaker 1: of the Department of Chief Means and Ken Davies is.

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Speaker 1: In my understanding is that he had return hired just

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Speaker 1: a little earlier this year.

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Speaker 3: What do you make of that change?

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Speaker 2: Well, what did Frank Daily do? I mean, he was

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Speaker 2: the golden boy. He was the head of Health while

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Speaker 2: Natasha was Health Minister or has been Health Minister, is

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Speaker 2: Health Minister. She carefully selected him for that job, that

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Speaker 2: most senior public service job, and now he's out. So

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Speaker 2: he's upset her, he's done the wrong thing and he's

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Speaker 2: obviously out on his ear as Kirby and Moss, which

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Speaker 2: is you know, it's fascinating to see how she's the

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Speaker 2: selection she's made and why. But yes, the change is

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Speaker 2: bringing Ken Davies back retirement. I mean, Ken Davies is

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Speaker 2: just he's just not going to go anywhere, is he.

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Speaker 2: He's just been a stalwart within the Northern Turkey public

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Speaker 2: service for absolutely years and he can't even retire him peace.

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Speaker 2: So there you go. He must be okay, you must

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Speaker 2: be doing his job. I'm pinning very easy to work

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Speaker 2: with when I was a minister.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's the thing, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: He He has actually, you know, he has withstood both

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Speaker 1: sides of parliament as well, hasn't he? Like, he's actually

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Speaker 1: been in top jobs under the COLP and under the

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Speaker 1: Labor Party.

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Speaker 2: Which is not an easy feed. One could never do that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how you can work successfully with both sides

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Speaker 2: of politics is beyond me. But Ken has done it,

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Speaker 2: and he does it with such integrity. He's quite an

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Speaker 2: incredible human being. I don't think there's many Ken Davies around.

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Speaker 1: No, Hey, Robert, I do want to ask, from a

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Speaker 1: real practical sense, and I know that you have been

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Speaker 1: the Treasurer of the Northern Territory before, so from a

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Speaker 1: real practical sense, the separation of the police.

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Speaker 3: From the Fire service. What do you make of that.

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Speaker 1: In terms of the potential budget that's going to be

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Speaker 1: required and the cost of actually doing this.

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Speaker 2: Well, it depends on how separate it will be. If

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Speaker 2: it's if they remain as one department and function separately,

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Speaker 2: just depends on the decisions made around that. If it's

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Speaker 2: going to be completely separate, then that will cost a

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Speaker 2: lot of money. But if it's more like a separation

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Speaker 2: within a within a larger department, look, the answer to

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Speaker 2: that is, I don't know that it could. It could

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Speaker 2: indeed cost a lot of money, or it could be

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Speaker 2: a sort of a minimal separation and not cost much.

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Speaker 2: But I really don't understand why Files has done that,

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Speaker 2: and I think that I think this has to be

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Speaker 2: a bit of a distraction the boss of one extreme

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Speaker 2: to the other. Katie. Can you remember during COVID, the

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Speaker 2: Police Commissioner not only had police foreign emergency services, but

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Speaker 2: had the role as the territory controller. With Jamie Talker

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Speaker 2: holding that monumental position. I mean, it was just mammoth

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Speaker 2: in the responsibility and I think a lot of the

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Speaker 2: problems we see now came from the fact that he

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Speaker 2: took his eye off the ball when it came to crime.

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Speaker 2: During that time. He was more concerned with COVID than policing.

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Speaker 2: So we've gone, we've flipped to the other side of

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Speaker 2: the spectrum now where the police Commissioner just has police

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Speaker 2: and hopefully that might be really good for addressing our

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Speaker 2: escalating crime problem right across the Northern territory, But it's

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Speaker 2: kind of a weird thing to do, and really know

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Speaker 2: how it will kind of benefit because police fire and

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Speaker 2: Emergency Services, as you said earlier, is a small part

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Speaker 2: of that bigger pie. And I don't think it took

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Speaker 2: the Police Commissioner away from policing particularly, so yeah, I

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Speaker 2: find that that quite a random sort of decision to

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Speaker 2: make and probably designed to distract and deflect rather than

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Speaker 2: prove anything particularly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, potentially.

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Speaker 1: Now, Robin, what's been the reaction from the people of

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Speaker 1: Alice Springs to this whole reshuffle? Are they you know,

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Speaker 1: is there much reaction at all?

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Speaker 2: No, there's no reaction. I mean, you know, pulling out

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Speaker 2: two Darwin members who they've never heard of and replacing

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Speaker 2: them with two more that they haven't heard of really

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Speaker 2: doesn't sort of hit most people's radar in Central Australia

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Speaker 2: and it almost will definitely not make a difference to

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Speaker 2: the plight of our lives the people of Central Australia.

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Speaker 2: Joe Bowden and Potter are you know, they're Darwin based

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Speaker 2: and dar and focus. You know, all of them will

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Speaker 2: stand up and tell you how much they love Alice

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Speaker 2: Springs and you know they grew up there, or they've

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Speaker 2: got family there and carry on with all this sort

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Speaker 2: of rubbish. But it doesn't doesn't put us on the

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Speaker 2: priority list any better. So I'm pessimistic, cynical about how

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Speaker 2: it will affect Central Australia in a positive and I've

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Speaker 2: probably just concluded, like most that it won't make any difference.

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Speaker 1: Robert, A couple of quick ones before I let you

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Speaker 1: go this morning. It looks like things are unfortunately not

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Speaker 1: going great in Alice right now. I know the night

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Speaker 1: before last well, the Northern Territory Police saying that there

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Speaker 1: had been sixteen reported break ins across Alice Springs.

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Speaker 2: What's going on, Well, we're just back to normal, really.

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Speaker 2: I mean the normal is pretty hard to bear and unacceptable,

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Speaker 2: but it is back to what we've had before, and

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Speaker 2: we've had for a long time. We had a bit

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Speaker 2: of a bit of a respite period there going through

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Speaker 2: winter after the stronger futures. Alcohol restrictions were restored earlier

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Speaker 2: this year, but I think most of us could steal

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Speaker 2: that we were slipping back towards where we were. Not

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Speaker 2: enough work has been done in the communities to try

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Speaker 2: and keep people on country. Not enough work has been

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Speaker 2: done to keep kids at school. We know that definitely

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Speaker 2: now through the exposure that the Northern Territory education departments

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Speaker 2: had through the reporting of The Australian over the last

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Speaker 2: couple of months. You know, these things are chronic and

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Speaker 2: entrenched and the fact that they've been going on now

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Speaker 2: for five, six, seven years, it's almost impossible to turn

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Speaker 2: it around. So there's a real sense of hopelessness around

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Speaker 2: our springs at the moment, and people are concerned about

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Speaker 2: going away for Christmas because they don't want to leave

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Speaker 2: their homes, their dogs, you know, their cars. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's just that sense of dread and wondering what the

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Speaker 2: hell can be done to sort it out? Under this government.

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Speaker 2: There's not a lot of optimism and nor should there be.

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Speaker 2: They've done very little to address it, prevent it, and

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Speaker 2: I hope territories don't reward them by bringing them back

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Speaker 2: in again for another four years. Otherwise at the end

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Speaker 2: of oallus brings really as we know definitely, well.

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Speaker 1: Robin, we will certainly we're going to be catching up

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Speaker 1: with Brent Potter in a few minutes time, so I'll

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Speaker 1: try and work out exactly what his focus is going

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Speaker 1: to be for Alis as well. We'll see whether there's

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Speaker 1: any Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think this guy's going places. I think who's the

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Speaker 2: anointed next leader of the Labor Party. And he's very

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Speaker 2: motivated and energetic, and I think watch out, watch this

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Speaker 2: space he comes Brent Potter.

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Speaker 1: Robin, just a very quick poll. Yeah, we'll wait and see,

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Speaker 1: just a very quick one before I let you go.

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Speaker 1: This debate around alcohol and potential restrictions, I mean, it continues,

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Speaker 1: but now we've got eminent Aboriginal academic Marcia Langdon yesterday

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Speaker 1: telling the coroner extending alcohol bands across the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: is an absolutely necessary public health measure measure. She has

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Speaker 1: said that tightening exceedingly lacks alcohol policy was central to

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Speaker 1: tackling domestic violence and reducing anti social behavior more generally.

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Speaker 3: Robin, what do you make of her comments?

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Speaker 2: Well, sadly, I think she's right. But the only comment

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Speaker 2: I would make, after thinking about this for some hours

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Speaker 2: this morning, after seeing that article in the interviews earlier,

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Speaker 2: is that you must always remember the fact that this

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Speaker 2: is primarily an Aboriginal problem, whether we like it or not.

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Speaker 2: That's not a racist comment. The facts are there, the

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Speaker 2: evidence of their so whatever policies or strategies are put

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Speaker 2: in place. It is about Aboriginal people, keeping Aboriginal people safe,

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Speaker 2: and stopping Aboriginal people from committing that violence of the violence, domestic,

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Speaker 2: family and sexual violence is perpetrated by Aboriginal people against

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Speaker 2: Aboriginal people. That's the only cause I've put on that.

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Speaker 2: Let's stop punishing everyone and let's just start to do

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Speaker 2: with the facts.

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Speaker 1: Here, Robin, we are going to have to leave it there.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, as always for your time this.

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Speaker 2: Morning, My pleasure, Katie.

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Speaker 3: Thank you