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Speaker 1: It is being reported that more than one thousand university

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Speaker 1: staff could soon lose their jobs as institutions moved to

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Speaker 1: cut costs ahead of the federal government's cap on international

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Speaker 1: student numbers, which are due to take effect next year. Now,

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Speaker 1: as we understand it, these restrictions are going to have

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Speaker 1: major impacts on university budgets given their reliance on those

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Speaker 1: overseas student fees. And we know that Charlesdowen University obviously

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Speaker 1: opened their new campus in the city they were hoping

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Speaker 1: to significantly grow their international student numbers. It's something that

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Speaker 1: we've spoken about before. And joining us on the line

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Speaker 1: right now to shed some more light on the situation

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Speaker 1: is Charlestowen University's Vice Chancellor, Professor Scott Bowman. Good morning to.

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Speaker 2: You, Good morning Katie. Good to be with you now.

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Speaker 1: Professor. How real is the financial challenge for Charlesdowen University

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Speaker 1: right now?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Look, it's pretty massive. So if you have a

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Speaker 2: look at what we were forecasting for next year, I'll

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Speaker 2: give you the figures pure and straight. So we were

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Speaker 2: looking at about an income of one hundred million dollars

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Speaker 2: from international students on our estimates at the moment if

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Speaker 2: everything goes right, it will be down to seventy five.

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Speaker 2: So we've immediately got a twenty five million dollar hole

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Speaker 2: in the budget for next year. And this year has

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Speaker 2: been an even more disaster year with the migration caps

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Speaker 2: and the problem with visas. So it is significant to

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Speaker 2: say the least.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, is the university in more strife than

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Speaker 1: others around the country given the investment in the city campus.

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Speaker 2: Look, I don't think the city campus is in there,

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Speaker 2: but we've actually been making investments everywhere. And you remember

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Speaker 2: when I first came about four years ago, we were

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Speaker 2: talking about, you know, closing down the Catherine campus, said

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Speaker 2: that the NULLUMBOI campus had already gone a fly and

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Speaker 2: fly out operation in ourice springs. And we've reversed all

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Speaker 2: of that. So I'm in nullan Boy at the moment.

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Speaker 2: We've got a really nice little campus here which is

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Speaker 2: going like the Clappers. We've still got the rural campus

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Speaker 2: in Catherine, which is going really well. We're in We've invested,

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Speaker 2: so we've invested across the northern territory. But yeah, then

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Speaker 2: we've got that city campus and that was all press prepas.

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Speaker 2: On the business case, I'm more international students, but the

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Speaker 2: kind of the bottom line, candy. So what I wanted

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Speaker 2: to do was, you know, I wanted to build a

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Speaker 2: university that is needed by the Northern Territory. I knew

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Speaker 2: there wasn't enough students in the Northern Territory to really

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Speaker 2: pay for that university, so we looked outside the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: Now we've always done that with distance education students, but

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Speaker 2: we really decided to go hard and really internationalize and

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Speaker 2: they go international numbers up and so in.

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Speaker 1: Terms of you know, the way that things are tracking now, professor,

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Speaker 1: I mean our staff cuts being considered, are they already happening?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: How are you going to manage all of this given

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Speaker 1: the fact that I mean if you look at those

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Speaker 1: projections alone, if you're anticipating that you're going to have

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Speaker 1: much more international students and what you've actually got, how

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Speaker 1: does the you know, like, how do your staffing levels

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Speaker 1: have to be modified?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Look and they will have to be modified. I'm

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Speaker 2: not I don't want to do it. Like most of

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Speaker 2: the universities. We're seeing a blood bath across Australia. You know,

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Speaker 2: you're seeing three hundred and fifty job losses in this

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Speaker 2: University Wollongong. I think just announced two two hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty federation you need I think two hundred. I mean

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Speaker 2: that would kill us. So what we're trying to pull

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Speaker 2: out about in We're trying to definitely take some cuss

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Speaker 2: out and that will mean some jobs. Look how many

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Speaker 2: redundancies are we looking at? Probably somewhere around twenty to

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Speaker 2: twenty five okay, but we will be reducing the staff

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Speaker 2: in numbers by more than that. But we do through

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Speaker 2: natural attrition some people that are looking for for retirement,

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Speaker 2: so we'd be doing some if you like, mini change management.

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Speaker 2: There's no two ways about that, because we've got to

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Speaker 2: cut our cast. We're looking at our travel costs, you know,

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Speaker 2: looking at stuff across the board. But we're not going

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Speaker 2: to crash the university now. And again I'm being very

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Speaker 2: honest with you. If we do that, we will keep

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Speaker 2: our head above water, but we are not really going

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Speaker 2: to thrive. So we have really got to look at

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Speaker 2: other ways of getting income into the university. Well, there's

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Speaker 2: two ways forward. We either cut the university down to

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Speaker 2: our size, which we can pay for, or we look

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Speaker 2: for other sources of income into the university. So that

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Speaker 2: we can deliver the university that the territory needs. And

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Speaker 2: that's where we're at at a university at the moment.

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Speaker 1: So in terms of the twenty to twenty five redundantencies,

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Speaker 1: when is that going to happen? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, people are looking at that already. People are

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Speaker 2: putting in change management across the university. What we'd like

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Speaker 2: to do. I mean, we're hopeful that we can get

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Speaker 2: a lot of this by natural attrition, but you know,

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Speaker 2: worst case scenario you are looking at twenty to twenty five.

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Speaker 2: I've said I'd like to see all of this in

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Speaker 2: place and those expenses taken out of the university by

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Speaker 2: Easter next year. So we're not doing a big crash dive.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, times are tough.

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Speaker 1: Scott When you're talked then about you know, trying to

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Speaker 1: find other revenue sources, So what is that going to mean?

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Speaker 1: You're trying to lure students from other states? What are

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Speaker 1: you going to do?

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Speaker 2: Well, we're doing that already. I mean a lot of

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Speaker 2: our students are by distance numbers from our state. But

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Speaker 2: you've also got to remember CADID we're looking at two

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Speaker 2: limits here, so we've had the limit put on international

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Speaker 2: student numbers. But we've also got a limit on domestic

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Speaker 2: students as well, and in fact down the barrel of

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Speaker 2: another gun in twenty twenty six because we have done

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Speaker 2: so well, we've over enrolled domestic students and I won't

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Speaker 2: go into the technicolities, but we're about twenty percent over

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Speaker 2: enrolled in twenty six. We will not be allowed to

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Speaker 2: do that. So at the moment we don't get federal

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Speaker 2: funding for those students, but we do get the student

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Speaker 2: sees the HEX money. From twenty six, we're going to

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Speaker 2: not be allowed to do that. So you could be

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Speaker 2: looking at it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, are they just like it is the federal

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Speaker 1: government just setting universities up to file here? Like what's

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Speaker 1: going on?

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Speaker 2: Look? You know, Katie, I've been a vice counselor now

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Speaker 2: coming up for fifteen years, both here and elsewhere. I've

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Speaker 2: never known a time of so much uncertainty and worry.

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Speaker 2: I was at a UA meeting yesterday and it was

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Speaker 2: doom and gloom. You know, all the universities were talking

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Speaker 2: about their financial abilities to stay there. You know, I

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Speaker 2: think the government, the new well it's not new anymore,

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Speaker 2: but the labor government came in with great aspirations for

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Speaker 2: the sector, and I keep being told when I go

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Speaker 2: down to Canberra, you know, wait until twenty six, it's

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Speaker 2: going to be the land of milk and honey. We're

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Speaker 2: going to have needs based Sundon and you've got seventy

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Speaker 2: percent equity students. You're going to be great. But you know,

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Speaker 2: well show me the numbers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Look, you know, I don't know exactly what

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Speaker 1: needs to happen here in terms of some changes with

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Speaker 1: those numbers, but it certainly seems like things are difficult

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Speaker 1: and it's not the only are for you girls, for

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Speaker 1: you guys, I should say. At the moment, we've got

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Speaker 1: a situation of course where it looks as though things

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Speaker 1: are also being delayed with our medical school. What is

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Speaker 1: going on here, professor?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I'm not trying to spin this in a

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Speaker 2: positive way, but it was actually a very very positive

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Speaker 2: letter that we got from the AMC. We've basically got

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Speaker 2: six years accreditation for the medical program to start in

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Speaker 2: in twenty six. You remember the government gave a funding

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Speaker 2: the medical school starting in twenty six and we just

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Speaker 2: said look and we said to our counsel, even though

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Speaker 2: the money is really tight, we are desperate for these doctors.

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Speaker 2: Let's take an intake in twenty five next year, just

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Speaker 2: twenty students, but we will pay for themselves. We won't

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Speaker 2: get any funding from the government, but we will pay

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Speaker 2: for them and just get the medical school rolling. We

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Speaker 2: have a letter saying you've got six years accreditation, but

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Speaker 2: we don't want you to start until twenty six when

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Speaker 2: you start getting the funding force, so we can be

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Speaker 2: sure that you're financially viable. There's a couple of other

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Speaker 2: things we want to make sure, make sure that you've

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Speaker 2: got all your clinical placements in line. So they said, look,

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Speaker 2: we give you the accreditation, but we don't want you

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Speaker 2: to take students next year. So I know the story

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Speaker 2: in the papers is being you know, it's all about

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Speaker 2: the delay. But actually that was pretty good news. Dyce

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Speaker 2: Stevens has done a great job.

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Speaker 1: But what happens with those students that would do to

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Speaker 1: start next year?

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, nobody had been offered a place, okay, so it's.

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Speaker 1: Not as if they were moving to Darwood or getting

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Speaker 1: ready to get into it now they're not.

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Speaker 2: No, nobody had been offered a place, so it was

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Speaker 2: up there. So we had for twenty places. We had

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Speaker 2: one thousand, two hundred applications, so we had a lot

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Speaker 2: of applications in the pipeline. Next week, I think we

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Speaker 2: were sky was going to start moving to actually doing

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Speaker 2: all the shortlisting and starting to interview those students, but

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Speaker 2: that hadn't been done. So there's no one sitting there really,

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Speaker 2: you know, thinking they were going to become a doctor.

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Speaker 2: They had got a place in medical school and really excited.

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Speaker 2: There's no one in that. We've just said yeah, thanks

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Speaker 2: for applying, but we're not going to start for the

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Speaker 2: following year.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be honest. It does still sound like

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Speaker 1: a hit though. I mean, if we're expecting those twenty

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Speaker 1: doctors like long term, it is going to a hit

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Speaker 1: in terms of them not being able to into the

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Speaker 1: workforce earlier.

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Speaker 2: Oh look, well, I think it is a hit for

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory and Die and I and the rest

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Speaker 2: of the medical team. You know, we've been putting a

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Speaker 2: lot of stuff on in there. We felt pretty confident

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Speaker 2: that we could offer a good program next year, but

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Speaker 2: the AMC has just said we've been we want to

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Speaker 2: be cautious, wait until twenty six, and you know they're

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Speaker 2: the accreditation board and you've got to go with them.

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Speaker 2: The good news is when we start in twenty six,

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Speaker 2: we will be starting with the forty full forty students.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, well, Professor Scott Bowman, we are going

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Speaker 1: to have to leave it there. We are fast running

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Speaker 1: out of time. I really appreciate your time this morning though,

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us on the show.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely fantastic talking to you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks Scott,