1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day. This 6 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: episode is another my favorite tip episode. The titles probably 7 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: Prolily self Explanetory. It's about my favorite tip from each 8 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: of the interviews I conduct. So my guest today is 9 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: Michael Stutchbury. Michael or stutch as he is known as, 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: has been writing and editing on business, economics and politics 11 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: for national newspapers in Australia for the past three decades, 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: working out of Sydney, Melbourne, Canberra and Washington, DC. Since 13 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: October twenty eleven, he has been the editor in chief 14 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: of the Australian Financial Review. So stuch is basically the 15 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: guy that sits at the top of the most powerful 16 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: business newspaper in Australia. My firm, Inventium, has had a 17 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: long relationship with the AFR, having run the AFAR Most 18 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: Inner but If Companies List for eight years now, which 19 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: compiles a list of one hundred most innovative companies across 20 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: Australia and New Zealand. In this extract, I talked to 21 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: Statu about his approach to conducting interviews, something he has 22 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: done hundreds of times throughout his long career in the media. 23 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: So this extract starts by Michael describing his approach to 24 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: preparing for an interview. 25 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: Well, I think you're right on. You've got to do 26 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 2: your homework and you've got to know basically who are 27 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: they and where have they come from? So you've got 28 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: to get a bit of an understanding of how do 29 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: they get to be in this position? They're an important position? 30 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 2: How do they get to be that? And what are 31 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 2: they trying to do? What have they achieved, what are 32 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: their highs, what are their lows? And then what is 33 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: the position from all of that, what is the position 34 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 2: they're in right now and what are they trying to 35 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: achieve and what are the challenges they face? And then 36 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 2: from that you want to get to get to the 37 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: essence of that. You want to find out some information, 38 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: You want to find out some news, you want to 39 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: find out something new about them. You want to find 40 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 2: out things about them or things they're doing now that 41 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: other people don't know about and how do you find 42 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: that out? One, you've got to be on top of 43 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: the subject matter and as much of the background as 44 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: you can as well. You know, you might speak to 45 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 2: other people who know them beforehand. And then you've got 46 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: to work out what is what do we think the 47 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: story is? Now? I think the story is either going 48 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: to be this, this or this. I think they're in 49 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: a bit of trouble here, or they're surely they're going 50 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 2: to have to be doing something about that problem there, 51 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 2: or isn't this their big opportunity to go out and 52 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: do this? Or didn't we see them having lunch the 53 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 2: other day with somebody else? And what are those two 54 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: people up to? So you've got to think about, you 55 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: know what it might be the stories. That's your thesis, 56 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 2: So that'll be your line of questioning, and then you 57 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: pursue that. Now it may work, it may not, or 58 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 2: something completely different might come out. They might have their 59 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: own story they want to give. They want to if 60 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 2: they are a good being interviewed, they they should have 61 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 2: their own idea about the headline should be this, and 62 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: this is a story I want to give out, you know, 63 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: they should. 64 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 1: I want to come to that because it's interesting. So 65 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: it sounds like you'll always go into an interview with 66 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: several hypotheses around what the potential angles or angle could be. 67 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: Is that fair to say as opposed to ever going 68 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: in just with a blank slate. 69 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think you want to go on with 70 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: a blank slate. I think you know, you want to 71 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 2: have just some thoughts and they're a thesis to be 72 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 2: proven or knocked down. But you want to have, you know, 73 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 2: is what's the story at the moment. Definitely. 74 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you first sit down with them and let's 75 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: say it's someone you've never met before, what are you 76 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: doing to build reports so they're going to feel comfortable sharing? 77 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think you do want to make a 78 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 2: bit of a personal contact in some way to where's 79 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 2: your common ground or what's the interesting thing that they've 80 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 2: done in their life, Like they might have started a 81 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 2: new job in Australia and they might have been an 82 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 2: Australian who have been away for a while. They've got 83 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 2: this new job and they've just come back here and 84 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 2: you know, it's just common human interaction. Know, how's it 85 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: all going, How's how's it been bringing the husband back? 86 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: Your French husband back here to any where a you're living? 87 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: You're living in Mosman and you have a nice house there, 88 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: and where are putting the kids into school? Just a 89 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: normal basic on that score, and then that might extend 90 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 2: to the work situation. How do you find you know 91 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: you've come back to straight how do you find it now? 92 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: It must be a bit you might have noticed this 93 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: weird thing we've got going on now or is it 94 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 2: really just such a relief to come back to such 95 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: a blessed country or something like that. 96 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: How I guess do you feel like you've become a 97 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: better interviewer? Like? What are the things that you've learned 98 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: along the way that you now deliberately. 99 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 2: Do Look, I wouldn't ass to say I'm a great 100 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 2: interviewer per se. I think experience is a very big 101 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 2: thing as a journalist. When you start out. One of 102 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 2: the striking things is that you're young and inexperienced, but 103 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: you deal with people in very important positions of power 104 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 2: right from an early age, and at first you've been 105 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: quite in awe of them, and you know, it's quite 106 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: a big thing to be a young person interviewing and 107 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 2: talking to people who are quite substantial and positions of 108 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 2: power and authority and great achievement. As you get older, 109 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 2: you know, you see you go through a few cycles 110 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: CEOs of various companies, treasurers, and so you get to 111 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: see a few of them and you get a bit 112 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 2: more of an understanding that these people who are at 113 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: the beginning of your career you've been a bit of 114 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: awe and you think, how do they do that? You 115 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 2: realize as you go on, these are all people. They're 116 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: all people with their own strengths, their own foibles, their 117 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 2: own insecurities and things that they're out there at the top. 118 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 2: Well some of them will be a little bit lonely 119 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: at the top. It stuff at the top, and so 120 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 2: you get to understand, I think, the nature of people 121 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: in authority running things. 122 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: Hello me again. I hope you found this chat useful. 123 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: It's funny because while they do a lot of preparation 124 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: before every interview, I don't necessarily go in with a 125 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: story in mind or hypothesis. I want to test. So 126 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: this is if you did make me think about whether 127 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: this is something I should do or whether I should 128 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: keep it a bit more open like I do at 129 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: the moment. Anyway, something I'm contemplating. I think that for you, 130 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: if interviewing people isn't part of what you do, it's 131 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: an interesting approach to a player to other conversations you 132 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: might have over the course of your day, whether these 133 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: be in meetings with your team, sales meetings, conversations with 134 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: your boss. Even so, that is it for today. If 135 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: you like this excerpt, you might want to listen to 136 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: my full chat with Stutch, which I link to in 137 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: the show notes. And if you're enjoying how I work, 138 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: why not leave a review in Apple Podcasts or wherever 139 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: you're listening to this from leaving reviews actually makes it 140 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: easier for other people to find this podcast, So thank 141 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: you to everybody who has done just that, leaving a 142 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: review or a star rating. It really does make my date, 143 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: So thank you very much and I will see you 144 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: next time.