1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: How I Work is having a little break over the 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: festive season, so I've picked a handful of my absolute 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: favorite episodes from the last eighteen months to play for 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: you in this best of series. I hope you enjoy, 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: and I'll be back with new episodes twice weekly from 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: January twenty eight. In a world that never stops, how 7 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: do you prioritize not just the good? The great Laura 8 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: May Martin is Google's executive productivity advisor, and she has 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: the answers. Laura's job is to advise the top execxit 10 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: Google on how to use their time better, and she 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: has transformed the art of prioritization and productivity into a science. 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: This is Laura's third time on How I Work, and 13 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: there is a reason I keep inviting her back. It's 14 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: because her advice is so incredibly practical and helpful. In 15 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: today's chat, we talk about how Laura organizes her day, 16 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: plans out her week, and tames her inbox. But Laura's 17 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: approach is not just about doing more, but about doing 18 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: what matters most. My name is doctor Amantha Imbert. I'm 19 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: an organizational psychologist and founder of behavior change consultancy Inventium, 20 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: and this is how I work a show about how 21 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: to help you get so much more out of the 22 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: hours in your day. When I think about the clients 23 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: I work with at Inventium, getting help with prioritization is 24 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: a topic that always comes up. So I wanted to 25 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: know how does Laura approach prioritization. 26 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 2: The word prioritization when you ask people to de find it, 27 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: they start talking about like reordering things or finding the 28 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 2: things that are at the top and moving other things 29 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 2: to the bottom. So when I think of prioritization, I 30 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: have this vision of ruthless prioritization in my head, Like 31 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: I tell the execs that I coach, you're gonna turn down, 32 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 2: You're going to say no to You're gonna cut really 33 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: really really good things to make room for those great things. 34 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: And if you aren't cutting those things, even if you 35 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: have the time, you don't have the energy. Those aren't 36 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 2: the same. Just becoming aggressive about priorities is like the 37 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 2: right way to think about it, because if we go 38 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: with our natural like I could probably do this, I 39 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 2: can probably do this, we're over committed. What would future 40 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,839 Speaker 2: me wish I had prioritized and go from there? 41 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: So what are some specific rituals or like practices that 42 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 1: you have when it comes to sitting down and actually 43 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: working this stuff out. 44 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad you asked that, because I read 45 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 2: a lot of books, as I'm sure you do, and 46 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 2: a lot of people love to share big picture ideas 47 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 2: and big picture things, and I'm always like, no, what 48 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,679 Speaker 2: is the recipe? Like what do I do tonight? What 49 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: do I do tomorrow? And so actually, as I develop 50 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 2: all this material over the past eight years at Google, 51 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: these were things that I was actually doing. So when 52 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: I sat down to plan my week, this is what 53 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: I was doing. And then I made that into a 54 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: weekly planner that's in the book and now on my website. 55 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 2: And so having that Sunday night planning, I feel like 56 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: that's one of the big things that I definitely do 57 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: because I know somebody asked us to come for dinner 58 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,119 Speaker 2: on Sunday or something. Immediately, I'm like, well, I'm gonna 59 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: have to do my Sunday planning Saturday or Monday, because 60 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: that's such a point of control in my week. Is 61 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: like looking ahead, looking at my commitments, looking what I 62 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 2: have time for, looking what I did last week, and 63 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: what was the good use of my time, look back, 64 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: look forwards. Making a daily list the night before of 65 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 2: what I planned to do to the next day. That's 66 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: definitely one of those tactical things that I do. 67 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: Tell me more about the Sunday planning. What does that 68 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: template look like that you're using. What are the questions 69 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: that you're thinking about? 70 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 2: Yes, I have all of these on my website. I 71 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: think they're certainly easier to follow visually, but I'll talk 72 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 2: through them. The first piece of that is the look 73 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 2: back look forward, and I think that is an exercise 74 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: I teach for executives because a lot of times what 75 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 2: happens is you kind of barrel through your week and 76 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 2: then the week's over, and then do you ever actually 77 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,119 Speaker 2: take the time to go back and say, like, what 78 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: was a great ease of my time? You know that 79 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 2: third meeting on Wednesday? Did I feel like it was 80 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 2: a little too long? Or I meet with this person 81 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 2: a little too often? And so we don't actually like 82 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: reflect and then make changes. We just go through it. 83 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: And so that piece is the look back, and the 84 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 2: look forward is just a series of questions that I 85 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: ask and look, is there any conflicts on my schedule 86 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 2: that I need to resolve? Looking at my schedule as 87 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 2: future me walking through each day, is there a place 88 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: I know that I'm going to be like, Gosh, I 89 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 2: wish I would have scheduled a break here, or really 90 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 2: wouldn't wish I committed to work on this when I'm 91 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 2: not going to have the energy. So that little worksheet, 92 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 2: you know, ten minutes of time is going to make 93 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 2: a big difference in your week. And then the next 94 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: piece of it is the actual list planning. And so 95 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 2: that's another thing I really get tactical and in the book, 96 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: because it's like not just like make it to do list, No, 97 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 2: It's like, well, if I have something to do in 98 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: a month, if I've somebody do tomorrow, if I don't 99 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 2: do it today, how do I make sure I get 100 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 2: to it another day? How do I keep all that 101 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: things accountable? So that list funnel I talk about is 102 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: something I do every Sunday. You know, I look at 103 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 2: my big main list. I call it the dashboard of 104 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 2: everything I could be doing at all times, you know, 105 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 2: everything I have to do in all areas of my life. 106 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 2: And then I look at my week and say, oh, 107 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 2: I actually have a pretty light day on Wednesday. Let 108 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 2: me get to some of that submitting medical bills that 109 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 2: I've been putting off. You know, that's just on that list, 110 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: but I'm keeping myself looking at it to make sure 111 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 2: it actually gets done. So that's my Sunday. 112 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: I would love you to talk more about list funnels. 113 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: I found that concept really intriguing in up time. Sorry 114 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: for someone that does not come across your work or 115 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: the idea of a least funnel? What is a list funnel? 116 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 2: Laura? Yeah, So the idea of that is just that 117 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: lists serve multiple purposes. And you know, if you want 118 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 2: to learn piano one day, and then your boss tells 119 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 2: you something at nine am that's do at five pm, 120 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: how do they go on the same list. How do 121 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 2: you capture things that you think of when you're on 122 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 2: a walk with your dog and you think of something 123 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: you need to do this week. So the idea of 124 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: the list funnel is just that it starts really wide. 125 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 2: So it's that huge main list broken into different categories 126 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: so it looks like a dashboard. It's like all the 127 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 2: calls I need to make, all the personal things I 128 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 2: need to do on my computer, all the errands I 129 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: need to run, the things around my house, and the 130 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 2: reason it's grouped like that is because one night you 131 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: might feel like, Wow, I'm really burnt out from looking 132 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: at the screen, but I want to get some stuff 133 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: done around the house. Great, Now I have a huge 134 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 2: group of those all together, or I have some time 135 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: in the car I'm going to make all the phone 136 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,679 Speaker 2: calls I need to make. Great, they're all grouped together. 137 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: But the bigger piece of the funnel is you're not 138 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 2: going to get to all those things that week, So 139 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: why look at them over and over and stress yourself 140 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: out knowing that they're not going to get to that week? 141 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 2: So you've narrow it down down the funnel, Now what 142 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: am I doing this week? And then that helps you 143 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: go even smaller, which is what am I doing this day? 144 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: And the absolute smallest piece is what am I doing 145 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 2: hour by hour? Because all kinds of studies show that 146 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 2: if you actually plan out, if you actually write nine 147 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: to ten, work out tomorrow, ten to eleven, work on 148 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: that presentation, you're way more likely to do it. So 149 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 2: it's the idea that your action items funneled down and 150 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: then once they're executed, they're done, they're out of the funnel. 151 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 2: And so it's just a system that keeps you mentally safe, 152 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 2: knowing that everything you have to do is captured and 153 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: it's moving its way down. If it gets stuck in 154 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: the funnel because you didn't get to it, it's back 155 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 2: on the other list and you'll see it again. 156 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: Can you tell me for you personally, Laura, what are 157 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: all the categories of list funnels that you have in 158 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: your life? 159 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so Actually exactly what I have in the 160 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: book is what I use. You're gonna laugh because like 161 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 2: in the book, I had to put an example list, 162 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 2: and I truly truly went to my current main list 163 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: and wrote everything I had on there, so you'll tell 164 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: it was like the spring, because I'm like register for 165 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 2: summer camps, kindergarten, kindergarten deadline, to submit paperwork, buying new 166 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: bathing suits for our beach trip. Like it was exactly 167 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 2: what I currently was doing at that time. So I 168 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 2: I do have those categories, you know, things at work 169 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: on the computer, things in my personal life on the computer, 170 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: calls returns, I need to make things I need to buy, 171 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 2: and then I keep grocery completely separate because that's its 172 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: own whole buying process. And then one list I talk 173 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: about that I would say this is the single thing 174 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: I use the most in a day is my capture list. 175 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 2: And that's my list of every single thought that comes 176 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,119 Speaker 2: to me, whether it's something I need to do, something 177 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: I forgot, something I need to buy. It all goes 178 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 2: on one list and I access that using my voice. 179 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 2: So I just say, hey, Google, add eggs to the 180 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 2: capture list. Hey Google, add email Brian to the capture list. 181 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: And then when I look at that during some of 182 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 2: those rituals like on Sunday or on Tuesday and Thursday, 183 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 2: I do it. But it's all those ideas that have 184 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: come to me in one place. So I use that, 185 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: I mean probably fifteen times a day, just everything that 186 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 2: I think of that I need to do. 187 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: Now tell me about saying no, because I know you 188 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: used to be really bad at these and how did 189 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: you become good at it. 190 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 2: I actually had a mentor a manager, and he gave 191 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: me that feedback. He was in nice words, constructive words. 192 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 2: He was like, you're kind of a pushover, and it's 193 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: getting to you because I can tell that you're over committed, 194 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: and I can tell that you're doing things that even 195 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 2: you know you shouldn't do. I think the biggest piece 196 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 2: for me was saying no without coming off as abrasive 197 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 2: or keeping that social capital that you have with friends 198 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 2: and coworkers. And it's a really fine line. And I 199 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 2: was worried about becoming that person who says no to everything, 200 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 2: because that has its own negative effects. And so I 201 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: try to do like actual sentences that I've used that 202 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 2: have gone well for me. You know, like, Hey, as 203 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 2: much as I would love to do that speaking event, 204 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 2: I'm actually holding that week for some work that I 205 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: think you know is coming in and I would call 206 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 2: this one no, But here's a resource that I used 207 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: for a similar event, and it would be great for 208 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 2: you to use it. And then sometimes I'll even follow 209 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 2: back up and say, like, how did the event go? 210 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 2: So sorry, speak at it like, hope everything went great. 211 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 2: So it's important to find that balance. And I think 212 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: that was really hard for me, but it's good because 213 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: it gave me like years of material of what has 214 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 2: worked well for me to say no. And so all 215 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 2: of those tactics I listed in the book. 216 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the tactics that you listened in the book. 217 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: I personally found them very helpful, and like you, I 218 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: used to struggle so much with saying no, although now 219 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: I feel like I get a lot of practice and 220 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: saying no multiple multiple times a day, so I think 221 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: the more you practice, the easier it becomes true. 222 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 2: Definitely yes, And you probably feel that when someone says 223 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: no to you, you respect them for it, and especially 224 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: if they're kind about it, you think, like, wow, they're 225 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 2: really thoughtful about their priorities. For whatever reason, it doesn't 226 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 2: fit in like you may be disappointed, but I think 227 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: it's just knowing that if you say no to someone 228 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 2: and you explain to them in the right way, they're 229 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 2: they're going to see your side of it and you're 230 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: not ruining a relationship. 231 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: I guess yeah, I reckon. One of the biggest things 232 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: things that has changed the way I say no is speed. 233 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: So I used to think that by saying a slow no, 234 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: like sitting on a request for a few days and 235 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: then saying no was the more respectful way to do it, 236 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: as if I'd given it a few days thought. But 237 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: I can't remember which guest it was on how I work, 238 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: But they talked about the power of a quick note 239 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: like you just like people don't want to be left hanging. 240 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 1: They want to move on. If the answer is no. 241 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: And so the biggest change I've made in my life 242 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: around knows is that I will say a very quick no, 243 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: and I will give contacts, I'll explain why. But I 244 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: found speed and I really love it when I get 245 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: quick nos back because I can just move on and 246 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: I don't have to waste time following up. 247 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, that's great. 248 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: Now with saying no, I mean no is about setting boundaries. 249 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: And in your book Uptime, you also talk about downtime, 250 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: and I want to know, like, for you personally, how 251 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: do you set boundaries for yourself? Given you are someone 252 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: that loves what you do. Your passion comes across so clearly, 253 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: but also you've got a family their priority. How do 254 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: you think about boundaries? 255 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 2: I think the first piece of it is actually like 256 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: setting them. And so when I work with an exec, 257 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 2: I say, like, what are some of your working boundaries? 258 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 2: And a lot of times I can tell how it's going. 259 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 2: If they have no answer to that, it means they 260 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 2: haven't really sat down and said I do this, I 261 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 2: don't do this, And I think that that's a piece 262 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 2: that you really have to define. Google has a lot 263 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 2: of cool things built into our culture where it's like 264 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 2: I can communicate those whether it's in my signature or 265 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: a user manual about me and working with me. But 266 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: I think that actually saying in my head like I 267 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: do not email on the weekends and I don't check 268 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: email on the weekends, Like saying that is actually really 269 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 2: powerful because it even keeps me accountable, you know, for 270 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: saying that that's something I do. I tell people that, 271 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 2: and then I know that they're not going to expect 272 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 2: an email from me because I've communicated that I do that. 273 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 2: I think it's finding those routines, so even like putting 274 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 2: my phone away before meals and things like that so 275 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 2: I'm not tempted to check or work while I'm with 276 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 2: my family. So you know, it's easy to say, oh, 277 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 2: I don't do this, but then send emails on the weekend, 278 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: and it's like, no, you have to really keep that, 279 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: Like eighty twenty. If it's a boundary that you've set, 280 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 2: you want to really keep that up to see the 281 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 2: benefits of it, because if you're it's just words, you're 282 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: not going to see the value. 283 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: I like the idea of putting your boundary in your 284 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: email signature. Can you tell me what that looks like 285 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: for you, how do you communicate boundaries? And what are 286 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: some of the examples that you've seen with fellow Googles 287 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: in terms of how they're communicating boundaries in the email signature. 288 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 2: Yes, a lot of our executives have like a user manual. 289 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 2: They call it like a how to work with me doc, 290 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 2: and so that's the bigger way of saying, here's how 291 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 2: to work with me. So I have one of those 292 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 2: that basically says, these are the things that I prefer 293 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 2: send me an email before adding time to my calendar, 294 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 2: because I prefer to communicate their first. During the workday, 295 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 2: I'm usually in meetings or focused intentionally, so please don't 296 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 2: chat me unless it's something that has to do in 297 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 2: the next thirty minutes or so I don't check in 298 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 2: on the weekends. I do check email from seven am 299 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 2: to six pm or whatever that is, or I do 300 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 2: check email Monday through Friday. Just communicating even like a 301 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 2: preference like boundaries like an aggressive word, I think, but 302 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 2: even a preference like I prefer to be emailed versus chat. 303 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 2: I think I've seen that in people's signatures, and it 304 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 2: just kind of gives you that oh okay, like I 305 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 2: didn't know that about them, you know, or some people, 306 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 2: some executives are like, just sign up for my office 307 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 2: hours and don't put another email in my inbox, Like 308 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 2: that's what those are for. So I've seen execs with 309 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 2: that and they link to the office hours and it's 310 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 2: like there, I was going to send them another email, 311 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 2: but now I know, oh that I'll just schedule this slots. 312 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: A lot of it's just communicating. It's just gently guiding 313 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 2: people to work with you the way that you want 314 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 2: to work. And it can be powerful, whether it's just 315 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: one line under your name. 316 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: There's something about your morning, Rachel, which I know you've 317 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: thought about a lot, which really stood out to me, 318 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: and you talk about it being a gift from past you. 319 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: Could you tell me about that concept? 320 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'd like that's the thing when we're trying 321 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 2: to plan for future us. I try to do something 322 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: for myself the night before. That's a gift for mourning me. 323 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 2: So it's something that mourning me is going to walk 324 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 2: down and think, oh, I'm so glad you know X. 325 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 2: And so, whether that's pre packing lunches, setting the coffee 326 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 2: machine on a timer, making sure the kitchen is clean, 327 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 2: picking out my clothes. I'm doing something to set myself 328 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: up in the morning because that morning is just such 329 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 2: another point of control. It's another one of those like 330 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 2: Sunday night things where it's like, if you can get 331 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 2: control of your morning, it really does affect your whole day. 332 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 2: So I know that by spending a few minutes doesn't 333 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: make it much of a difference if I go to 334 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 2: bed ten minutes later because I made lunches, But it 335 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 2: does make a big difference in the morning if I 336 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 2: feel that light feeling of wow, this is already done. 337 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 2: Now I have a little more time to do this 338 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 2: or whatever that is. So I try to do that 339 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 2: for myself, and even with my kids, I try to 340 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: help them do that. Pick out your outfit before Why 341 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 2: don't you go ahead and pack up your backpacke, You'll 342 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 2: be so happy you did that in the morning. And 343 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 2: so I think it's just a good have to learn overall. 344 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to talk to my daughter Frankie after this chat. 345 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: Although one hack that I do use at home as 346 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: of HEROD, and I heard about this strategy a few 347 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: years ago from this quite well known female entrepreneur. She's 348 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: got quite a lot of kids and she would talk 349 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: about how she would put her young children to bed 350 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: wearing their school uniform and at the time, I thought, well, 351 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: that's that's a bit much. That's interesting, but it's a 352 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: bit much. I now have adopted that hack. When it's 353 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: a sports uniform day, my daughter is leaving in her 354 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: T shirt and shorts because it just removes friction for 355 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: the next day and it is a massive gift to 356 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: the whole family's future. Exactly, it's a future all of us. 357 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: We will be back soon with Laura talking about the 358 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: biggest problems that executives at Google have in managing their time, 359 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: and the most common strategy is she gives them to help. 360 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 361 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: you work and live, I write a weekly newsletter where 362 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: I share practical and simple to apply tips to improve 363 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: your life. You can sign up for that at Amantha 364 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: dot substack dot com. That's Amantha dot substack dot com. Now, 365 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: a lot of your time at Google is spent coaching executives, 366 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: and I feel like a lot of people would imagine 367 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: a senior executive Google just being a master of their 368 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: time and productivity. But I imagine, you know, maybe that's 369 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: not the case, And I would love to know what 370 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: are the biggest challenges that you observe these leaders having 371 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: in terms of how they're thinking about and using their time. 372 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that question a lot, Like what are 373 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 2: execs dealing with? They have total control of their time, 374 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 2: you know, thinking that they have maybe an administrative professional 375 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 2: working with them. Isn't it easier? And it's kind of 376 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 2: funny because you know, no matter what your level is, 377 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: if you're entering the workplace or you were a very 378 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 2: senior exec with a global team of a lot of 379 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 2: the issues are the same. But figuring out the time 380 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 2: management piece, the energy management piece. One of the cool 381 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 2: things about my job is that a lot of these 382 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 2: execs are productive and it's like maybe they've totally mastered 383 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 2: one piece of it and I'm learning from them, and 384 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 2: then I'm able to share those practices as I go 385 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 2: to different coaching sessions and so that's really cool, And 386 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 2: especially I talked in the book about one executive that 387 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 2: really mastered urgent. You know, he had a lot of 388 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,239 Speaker 2: urgent coming up. He figured out how to have a 389 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: slot every day for urgent. His whole team knew that 390 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 2: slot when something urgent comes up, they all cleared their 391 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 2: calendars knowing that's when he's going to meet with him, 392 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 2: like things like that, I didn't think of that, He 393 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 2: thought of that, And now I've shared that with so 394 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 2: many people, and so it's cool because you know, while 395 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 2: I am able to share ideas and go through these 396 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 2: exercises that help the whole team think and their chief 397 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 2: of staff, I also am able to share, Oh, I 398 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 2: just talked to so and so last week and they're 399 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 2: able to do this and that would work great for you, 400 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 2: and connect them and things like that. So that's fun. 401 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: What are the most common strategies that you find yourself 402 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: giving to these executives? Are there any kind of common 403 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: solutions that you find yourself talking about a lot with them. 404 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest things that I constantly 405 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 2: get the feedback about that makes a huge difference is 406 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 2: finding those power hours and really working to protect them. 407 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 2: And so the biggest thing is when I say, oh, 408 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 2: when do you do most of your heads down work 409 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 2: or when are you most focused? Maybe it's a West 410 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 2: Coast executive in the US, and they'll say, oh, you know, 411 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: the morning. I'm a morning person. I really like, I'm 412 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 2: so focused. I love the mornings. And then I'm like, well, 413 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 2: when are you doing most of your heads down work? Oh, 414 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 2: always in the afternoon or at night, because my schedule 415 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 2: is full of East Coast meetings because I woke up 416 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: late and that's when all my team wants to meet. 417 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 2: So that's such a small thing. But even saying let's 418 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: just block the morning for you, even one maybe two days, 419 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 2: and give you like two two to three hour blocks 420 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 2: that are solid. You know they're there. You don't have 421 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: any meetings come, you turn off your chat, you close 422 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 2: your email. You really get done what you need to 423 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 2: get done. And that can be so powerful. I've heard 424 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 2: over and over the executives say like, gosh, I just know, 425 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 2: I always know I have my Wednesday morning, you know, 426 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 2: and it's their natural time. Because for that same executive, 427 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 2: blocking nine to eleven is so different than blocking three 428 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 2: to five. It's so different. Their output is different, their 429 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 2: energy is different. And so I think that that's one 430 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 2: of the big tactics that I feel like I'm always 431 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 2: talking about and always getting good feedback later on. 432 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember I interviewed Mel Silva, who heads up 433 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: Googling Australia and New Zealand and she had thinking dice, 434 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: which I think from memory, she scheduled them about once 435 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: every six weeks, and she would plan for them. And 436 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: it's a longer version of what you're describing. They are. 437 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: What else do you recommend to these execs that you 438 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: find yourself just hearing consistently great feedback like this. This 439 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: has really changed the way that I work. 440 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 2: It's funny that you say that, because definitely one of 441 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 2: the biggest things that I wouldn't say I do it. 442 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 2: I wouldn't give myself the credit. But giving that permission 443 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,239 Speaker 2: to have blank space in your schedule, whether it's a 444 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 2: no meeting Friday, or it's a think day, or it's 445 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 2: a really long break for a lunch where you're just 446 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 2: kind of thinking or decompressing. I feel like a lot 447 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: of the times I'm just kind of saying, oh, even 448 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 2: an exact higher up than you spends one day coding, 449 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 2: like you can do that too, or whatever it is. 450 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 2: So I feel like that idea of just like white 451 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 2: space in your schedule equals white space in your head 452 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 2: equals new ideas, big picture vision. So that's certainly a 453 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 2: piece of it. And then I would say the next 454 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 2: piece of it is just again getting like aggressive about 455 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 2: the schedules. I'm that person who's looking at each meeting 456 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 2: with them saying, do you really need thirty minutes here? 457 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 2: Or could we do fifteen minutes? Could we group these 458 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 2: three meetings together anywhere? Low hanging fruit on the schedule. 459 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 2: And it seems so small cutting meetings down fifty minutes, 460 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 2: But if you do that to ten meetings over the 461 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 2: course of a couple of weeks, it's like now you're 462 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 2: all of a sudden feeling like, Wow, I have more 463 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 2: time here, more time here. That's definitely something that when 464 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 2: I circle back, when I do my check back ins, 465 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: that's always like, oh, I feel like I have so 466 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 2: much time. I'm like with a magnifying glass on their schedule, 467 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 2: like why is this here? Have you always been in that? 468 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 2: Would you sign up for this tomorrow? Or have you 469 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 2: just always done it? So that's my job. 470 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: I love that, and that's such a great question, like 471 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: would you sign up for this tomorrow? I want to 472 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: switch gears and talk about downtime, the opposite of up time. 473 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: How do you think about downtime in your own life? 474 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 2: That's funny you said the opposite, because I think that's 475 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 2: what we think the opposite, but in the book I 476 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,959 Speaker 2: talk about how it's they go hand in hand, they're necessary. 477 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 2: So one example I always give is, you know, I 478 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 2: love my stationary bike. I normally do a forty five 479 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 2: minute just regular ride, regular class, but my highest score 480 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 2: is from a thirty minute interval class. If someone was 481 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 2: watching that, they would think, Wow, she got off the 482 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,360 Speaker 2: bike fifteen minutes earlier, lazy, not working as hard, and 483 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 2: she took a ton of breaks. No, because of those breaks, 484 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 2: I was able to work harder in the sprints and 485 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 2: finish earlier. So that's kind of the point of downtime 486 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 2: is that people think like taking that hour for myself, 487 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 2: taking that vacation, like overall, I'm not working as hard. No, 488 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 2: that is actually what's fueling you to work hard. And 489 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 2: so in my own life, my husband and I like 490 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 2: five years ago, we started doing no tech Tuesday night. 491 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 2: But it was just my way of saying like, Okay, 492 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 2: I'm not going to go extreme and say like I'm 493 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 2: never looking at my phone or you know whatever, but 494 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: one night a week, from dinner until the next morning, 495 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 2: we can do something other than TV and technology. Could 496 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 2: be board games, just sitting and talking, sit outside and 497 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 2: we ended up loving it so much. I started this 498 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 2: challenge at Google and it's great and people feel the 499 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 2: digital detox. But the biggest piece of it is when 500 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 2: they say how they feel on Wednesday. And that's the 501 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 2: craziest part, Like I'm so much more productive on Wednesday. 502 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 2: I could not solve this problem, and I didn't want 503 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 2: to do no Tech Tuesday because I wanted to keep 504 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 2: heads down. But I let myself do it, and I 505 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 2: came up with the best answer when I woke up 506 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 2: on Wednesday morning. So those little routines of like I 507 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 2: put my phone down here, I always make time for 508 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 2: a workout when I'm on vacation, I do not check email, 509 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 2: I take my weekends. I come up with my best 510 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 2: ideas when I'm on a walk, not when I'm in 511 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,640 Speaker 2: my ninth meeting. And so by prioritizing those times, I'm 512 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 2: actually a better long term employee. And so I think 513 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: that managers should prioritize downtime for their own teams and 514 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 2: reward that. 515 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 1: I love what you say about no Tech Tuesday and 516 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: the no Tech Tuesday challengeing up time. I was curious 517 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: why Tuesday, and also I would love feto explain more 518 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: around the rules of what is a no Tech Tuesday. 519 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I chose Tuesday mostly because Monday felt like I'm 520 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 2: still like starting the week, and one of my favorite 521 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 2: TV shows is on Monday, honestly, so I was like, 522 00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 2: I don't know that I want to not watch that, 523 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 2: and Tuesday just has that rink to it. It's memorable. 524 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 2: A lot of people is like, oh, Tuesday's kind of 525 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 2: like a down night. You know, it's not in the 526 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 2: first day of the week, and you know I'm not 527 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 2: piled in work yet, and so I was like, let's 528 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 2: just do that, and then it's stuck. And the rules 529 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 2: are basically you pick a time and from that point 530 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 2: until the following morning. And I even do the wake 531 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 2: Up Wednesday Bonus challenge, which is if you can go 532 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 2: thirty minutes after you wake up you don't touch technology. 533 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 2: But the point is just like breaking that habit and 534 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 2: realizing that you probably look at your phone for a 535 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 2: lot of things you don't need. You probably do enjoy 536 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 2: some hobby that you just don't do because you have 537 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 2: access to your computer, and nothing needs to be extreme. Obviously, 538 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 2: technology has its place in our life, but so does 539 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 2: learning how to set it down, and so I think 540 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 2: it's just like a one of those small habits, small 541 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 2: routines that can just be eye opening. And I love 542 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 2: watching the comments pour in because it's a six week 543 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 2: challenge and the first week it'll be like, this was 544 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 2: so hard. I actually astounded how many times I went 545 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 2: to pick up my phone and didn't have it. I 546 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 2: kind of felt anxious, I kind of felt lonely, you know, 547 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 2: like all these things, and then it's like now, actually, 548 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 2: right as we're speaking, we're in the fifth week, and 549 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 2: I just read through them and it's like, I'm loving 550 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 2: this more and more. I added a second night. I 551 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 2: have people post pictures of what they accomplished, and it's 552 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 2: like knitting, iron beats painting. I learned a new recipe 553 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 2: and I actually had my grandma's handwriting instead of looking 554 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 2: up online. Just really cool ways of using your time, 555 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 2: you know. So that's how it all started. 556 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: Love that. I want to talk about generative AI. I 557 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: am sure that as a productivity expert you're using it 558 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: a lot, and particularly a productivity expert within Google, I'm 559 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: definitely using it a lot in my work. I want 560 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: to know how are you using it day to day? 561 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: Where has it changed workflows or how you're approaching different 562 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: kinds of. 563 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 2: Tasks when you think of it, like any tool, my 564 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 2: biggest rule on tools is like you've got to learn 565 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 2: the power of it, And for AI, I think that's 566 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 2: just like even bigger that can be from learn the 567 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 2: keyboard shortcuts in your email program to like learn how 568 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 2: AI can start that entire project for you. And so 569 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 2: one of the things that I really push is just 570 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 2: kind of like spending time watching some videos looking at prompts, 571 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 2: you know, even if it's like thirty minutes saying like 572 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 2: what's the coolest thing that Gemini can do in Google workspace? 573 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 2: Like I'm going to look that up and then see 574 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 2: people using it in Google sheets and say, wow, that's 575 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 2: so cool. I haven't thought of that. So I think 576 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 2: that that's the biggest piece is like getting ahead of 577 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 2: it and understanding what it can do. I always just 578 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 2: think in my head, how can I start with AI? 579 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 2: You know, anytime I sit down when I look at 580 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 2: my to do list, sometimes I just kind of scan, 581 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 2: like is there anything on here that I could just 582 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 2: source out? Because that's giving me more time for higher 583 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 2: value tasks. So any template I'm writing, looking for creative images. 584 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 2: When I'm doing a training that represents something kicking off 585 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 2: something with an email, looking at text and saying, God, 586 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 2: this really needs to be like half the word count 587 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 2: that it is, I'm going to ask it to narrow 588 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 2: that down for me, and just always using it as 589 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 2: like a starting point of what can AI do for 590 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 2: me so that I can be more strategic with my time? 591 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: Are there certain tasks that you do as part of 592 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: your role that you have found JENII is just not 593 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: good for I'm always interested in, like what are the 594 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: categories of things where we should use GENI to augment 595 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: what we do and where does it really need the 596 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: human thought? 597 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think anything that feels analytical from your perspective. 598 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 2: So like that example of like the calendar analysis, I've 599 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 2: really been thinking in my head, like so AI could 600 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 2: basically tell me like what meetings I'm in and what 601 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: time I'm spending them, But they're not going to be able. 602 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 2: It's not going to be able to say do you 603 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 2: really need thirty minutes with John or could you do fifteen? 604 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 2: It's really combing through making those personal decisions. You can't 605 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 2: source that out, but if you can pull the information 606 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 2: with the help of a tool and then look at 607 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 2: it instead of you having to pull that information yourself. 608 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 2: You're getting the most out of AI at this point. 609 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 2: Now that being said, who knows where we'll be in 610 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: even a year. There could be some pattern learning where 611 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 2: it says, hey, we noticed that you started taking meetings 612 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,719 Speaker 2: this time, and we notice that on Wednesday all your 613 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 2: meetings tend to go late. You know, should you that 614 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 2: kind of thing? So I'm just excited to see where 615 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 2: that goes because we don't know yet how it will 616 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 2: play into our lives and our workflow as it starts. 617 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 2: To learn things like. 618 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: That, I'd love to finish by asking you around, like, 619 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: with all the training and coaching that you've done over 620 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: the years, what are the tips that you hear from 621 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: people that have been their favorite, like the stickiest ones, 622 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: the ones that have had the most tampedled. What are 623 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: the things that people just keep coming back to you 624 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: and going, Laura, this has been a game changer's. 625 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 2: Funny well, as you know because it was in your book. 626 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 2: I think the thinking of email like laundry. That is 627 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 2: something that like ten years after people have come take 628 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 2: my course, they come back to me and say, like 629 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 2: I cannot get that out of my head. It changed 630 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 2: my life. You know, funny things like that where they're like, 631 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 2: I sleep better because of this email training. I'm like, 632 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 2: it's an email training, but you know whatever. It kind 633 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 2: of gives them that mental clarity around email, which is 634 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 2: such a big personal thing for us. 635 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: So, for those that haven't heard, your email is laundry, 636 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: and could you just like briefly expriabing that because I 637 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: love it. 638 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 2: Yes, we do our laundry, and we would never open 639 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 2: the dryer and pick out one shirt full of that shirt, 640 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 2: walk it all the way up, put in the drawer, 641 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 2: pair of pants comes out, it's kind of wet. Should 642 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 2: we throw it back in the dryer? I found this sock. 643 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 2: I don't feel like finding the other stock, so I'll 644 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 2: just put one sock away. And I'm just going to 645 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 2: constantly open my dryer door fifteen times a day and 646 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,959 Speaker 2: remind myself I don't have time to do it all. 647 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 2: I haven't done it, and I have no idea where 648 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 2: my pink shirt is. That sounds so stressful when we're 649 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 2: talking about laundry. So when we're talking about email, you're 650 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 2: doing the same thing. When you mark something as on red. 651 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 2: That's throwing what pants back in, you know, finding one 652 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 2: email and responding to it and then going back to 653 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 2: read another email. That's just folding one shirt. So instead, 654 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 2: what we should do is take everything out aka dryer 655 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 2: zero inbox zero, put it into laundry basket. Things I 656 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 2: need to fold, things I need to hang, things I 657 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 2: need to read, and then we do them all at 658 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 2: once as much as possible. So full, fold, fuld, fold, fold. 659 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 2: I'm carrying this whole pile of shirts up one time. 660 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 2: So read, read, read, read, read or respond respond, respond, 661 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 2: matching it with our energy because I'm so happy when 662 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 2: I don't waste really good power hours on reading industry news. 663 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 2: It's like, that's a great thing to do. When a 664 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 2: meeting ends ten minutes early. I think it's just like 665 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 2: a mindset shift. That's like, why am I doing my 666 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 2: email this way? It's really inefficient. So, you know, that's 667 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 2: one that definitely sticks with people. 668 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: I think, what else what else steaks? 669 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, one that people really like is like the choosing 670 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 2: hot spots and not spots. Date dependency research tells us 671 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,479 Speaker 2: that we take in all this information when we're working 672 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 2: or when we're doing anything anywhere. So you know, our 673 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 2: brain kind of knows the site smells, sounds of everything, 674 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 2: and so if we use that to our advantage, we 675 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 2: start doing certain tasks at certain places. So that could 676 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 2: mean like something's in the office, something's at home, or 677 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 2: like I always send email from this one chair in 678 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 2: my office, I always code from the cafe. It teaches 679 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 2: your brain to say, like, when I'm here, I do this. 680 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 2: When I'm here, I do this, and then you easily 681 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 2: slip into that pattern when you're in those places. So 682 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 2: people really like that one. And then the idea of 683 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 2: a not spot like places that you never work, you 684 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 2: never think about work because your brain is safe there 685 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 2: and your brain never has stressed. Or you know, you 686 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 2: keep your car canute sacred or whatever that is. So 687 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 2: those are some of the big big bites that people 688 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 2: always come back for. 689 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: Laura, I just love chats. This is the third time 690 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: you've been on How I Work. And I've got to say, 691 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: when I found out that you were writing a book, 692 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: I think maybe a year or two ago, when you 693 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: first mentioned it, I was just so excited. You are 694 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: just such a wealth of knowledge, but importantly, you make 695 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: it so simple and practical for people to apply so 696 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming back on How I 697 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: Work again. It's always such a joy. Thank you, Laura, Yes, 698 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. I hope you like this chat 699 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: with Laura May Martin, and if you did, you should 700 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: definitely grab a copy of her book Up Time. I 701 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: get sat so many books about time management and productivity, 702 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: and this is one of the best I've read in years. 703 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: It is such a practical and balanced approach to thinking 704 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: about how we use our time. If you enjoyed today's episode, 705 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: I would love to ask a favor. Click follow on 706 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: the podcast app that you're listening to this on, and 707 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: if you're feeling really generous, leave a review for the show. 708 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: Following this podcast and leaving reviews helps How I Work 709 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: find new listeners, and your support is one of the 710 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: things that makes this podcast possible. Thank you for sharing 711 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: part of your day with me by listening to How 712 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: I Work. If you're keen for more tips on how 713 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: to work better, connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. 714 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: I'm very easy to find. Just search for Amantha Imba. 715 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: How I Work was recorded on the traditional land of 716 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 1: the Warrenery people, part of the Cool and Nation. I 717 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: am so grateful for being able to work and live 718 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: on this beautiful land, and I want to pay my 719 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: respects to Elder's past, present and emerging. How I Work 720 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: is produced by me Amantha Imba. The episode producer was 721 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: Rowena Murray. And thank you to Martin Imba who does 722 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,439 Speaker 1: the audio mix for every episode and makes everything sound 723 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: better than it would have otherwise